DOFP feels like it just ignored a bunch of movie continuity in favour of explanations given in commentary or something.
Which is also kind of true to the comics. Storylines ignored, character statuses lost down the back of the sofa, powers behaving differently under each writer.
Future Wolverine indeed having his metal claws back, after losing them in last year's spin-off-but-still-canon movie. Since we saw Magneto able to tear metal to shreds and thread it throughout the Sentinels, stands to reason he probably did the same with Wolverine's claws and recoated them.
The Wolverine:
There was plenty of adamantium lying around after those events for Magneto to do it, too.
Just saw the movie. The movie was great, except for:
...the bit at the end.
There basically should never be a moment where "Drowning Logan" travels back into an alternate timestream and literally replaces "original Logan". That makes absolutely no sense in any scenario.
If you take it for granted that Logan's consciousness traveled back to fix everything, and that consciousness stays with him from that point forward, then there should never be a "replacement" event because it's been the same Logan from that point forward. (In other words, the time-traveler overwrote the original Logan, which is kinda OK because the time-traveler already experienced all of the original Logan's stuff anyway).
If you assume that "Drowning Logan" basically died when his timeline was destroyed (with the "original Logan's" consciousness re-inserted), then that consciousness should never come back because it no longer existed in the first place (hence the paradox of time travel).
The way they established Kitty's time travel power (PFFFT) was that it's like editing a document. Nothing changes until you close the program. While Kitty is maintaining the connection, nothing changes, and the time traveller has to make the change in real time relevant to Kitty. Once the connection is severed (because Wolverine died) the change is made and the Future timeline is replaced with the happy one at the school. Future Wolverine's conciousness tries to go back to the Future where it belongs, but that future is now the happy one, so it goes there and overwrites the natural progression Wolverine's timeline. They'd probably sort of merge and he'd get those memories back, but hey - Wolverine has always had amnesia trubs, it's nothing new. :P
I was kinda bummed Kitty was nowhere to be seen in the Happy future, and Rogue was back with Iceman. Also they both appeared to still be students?
The way they explained Kitty's powers:
Don't really clarify it. The initial events of the movie could be interpreted either way, at least from my recollection. All they really say is that Bishop goes back a few days, and warns everyone what is going to happen, which then allows them to be elsewhere instead of getting wiped out. Whether or not the Bishop who goes back remains from that point forward or eventually gets replaced by the "original" Bishop (who somehow never experienced anything during the time he was replaced) or a merge of the two occurs is never explained.
Also, the implication with the merging is that if Bishop jumps back enough times, he's going to amass the memories of several different lifetimes across various spans of time. What's to stop him from going insane in the process? Even Wolverine's "two" time streams would be enough to make this an open question.
She explains it to him before he goes back.
His consciousness will jump back to 2023 after the link is broken. Once there, he'll be the only one to remember the bad future.
It's best to think of the two timelines as running parallel. Think of it like a highway... Left lane is 2023, right lane is 1973. Future Logan temporarily changed lanes and then, after the movie, swerved back into the left lane.
Not that I think it's the most elegant solution from a plot perspective, but time travel will always have something weird going on. The important thing is it was internally consistent.
It also means that final scene of the movie ISN'T:
just a dream of a person who no longer exists.
It wouldn't exactly be that but it sure as hell would get spun that way.
The way they established Kitty's time travel power (PFFFT) was that it's like editing a document. Nothing changes until you close the program. While Kitty is maintaining the connection, nothing changes, and the time traveller has to make the change in real time relevant to Kitty. Once the connection is severed (because Wolverine died) the change is made and the Future timeline is replaced with the happy one at the school. Future Wolverine's conciousness tries to go back to the Future where it belongs, but that future is now the happy one, so it goes there and overwrites the natural progression Wolverine's timeline. They'd probably sort of merge and he'd get those memories back, but hey - Wolverine has always had amnesia trubs, it's nothing new. :P
I was kinda bummed Kitty was nowhere to be seen in the Happy future, and Rogue was back with Iceman. Also they both appeared to still be students?
Exactly. It worked just like she said it would.
To your last point:
She was there. She was teaching a class with Colossus (probably setting them up as the good future couple)
And the reason the fact that people in the past would not know is because of PARADOX prevention
What Paradox?
They all lived the events that happened in 1973. It would seem a lot stranger to me if they suddenly forgot them all. "Hey Beast... Why did we do all that stuff yesterday?" "I dunno... Some guy maybe? I don't remember."
4. Old Magneto looked TOO old for me. But that isn't their fault (Ian is getting up there in age).
He's a Holocaust survivor living in 2023. Dude would be at least in his nineties.
Indeed. But then that opens up things with New Magneto. Going by your definition, if he is in his 90's then, that means in 1973 he is in his 40's. Which he certainly doesn't look like.
He just seemed 'shakey', for lack of a better term, which kind of ruined the whole 'ultimately powerful badass' thing.
Also on that same sort of point (but not really)
Couldn't they get the Sentinel's to copy Colossus, which would then allow Magneto to use his powers on them?
Or couldn't Magneto just spear them with metal? He seemed kind of useless too be honest.
Not a fan of Mystique. The old one from the X1-3 I didn't mind, but the new one I don't. And I don't think she is good enough to be such a large part of the story.
You shut your filthy mouth.
We are grateful for every second of Jennifer Lawrence's screen time. You're lucky she even opted to do the movie and let you see it. She could have kept to herself, stuck with her modeling, or only done more Hunger Games movies.
But no, she sat in a makeup chair for 8 hours each day during shooting to give us those blue tittied screen caps.
Don't you dare besmirch her gracious offering.
Haha. I'm sorry.
Don't get me wrong, I like JL as an actor. Just that the Mystique character I don't really like.
Maybe it just seems weird that she is the lynchpin of the whole thing when there are major mofos with god powers around.
Apparently young Magneto mentions Angel (among others) has died since First Class (read it on a website, it didn't stand out when I watched it). Does this mean we might get an Archangel as one of Apocalypse's horsemen? And he also apparently says Emma Frost is dead... so... yeah.
Actually...
When he says Angel is dead, he's referring to the Angel from First Class. The chick with the bug wings and acid spit.
Well... I haven't seen First Class in a while. That kind of sucks (that my hypothesis was wrong).
Steam ID: natinator Xbox Live: Natman PRIME LoL: A1 Sauce
Just saw the movie. The movie was great, except for:
...the bit at the end.
There basically should never be a moment where "Drowning Logan" travels back into an alternate timestream and literally replaces "original Logan". That makes absolutely no sense in any scenario.
If you take it for granted that Logan's consciousness traveled back to fix everything, and that consciousness stays with him from that point forward, then there should never be a "replacement" event because it's been the same Logan from that point forward. (In other words, the time-traveler overwrote the original Logan, which is kinda OK because the time-traveler already experienced all of the original Logan's stuff anyway).
If you assume that "Drowning Logan" basically died when his timeline was destroyed (with the "original Logan's" consciousness re-inserted), then that consciousness should never come back because it no longer existed in the first place (hence the paradox of time travel).
The way they established Kitty's time travel power (PFFFT) was that it's like editing a document. Nothing changes until you close the program. While Kitty is maintaining the connection, nothing changes, and the time traveller has to make the change in real time relevant to Kitty. Once the connection is severed (because Wolverine died) the change is made and the Future timeline is replaced with the happy one at the school. Future Wolverine's conciousness tries to go back to the Future where it belongs, but that future is now the happy one, so it goes there and overwrites the natural progression Wolverine's timeline. They'd probably sort of merge and he'd get those memories back, but hey - Wolverine has always had amnesia trubs, it's nothing new. :P
I was kinda bummed Kitty was nowhere to be seen in the Happy future, and Rogue was back with Iceman. Also they both appeared to still be students?
So on your last point.
Kitty was at the school. She was in a classroom with Peter/Colossus. Which is her more classic love interest. Her and Bobby are kind of a new thing.
It seemed that she was a teacher and considering Kitty was younger than Rogue and Bobby my guess they are also teachers at the school not students any more.
+3
Options
Brainiac 8Don't call me Shirley...Registered Userregular
I have to give major credit to
Kelsey Grammar for sitting in the makeup chair for who knows how long just to film a five second scene.
I love it though.
Also, this movie was awesome, and hands down the best X movie. For all the flack I gave Quicksilver for his terrible costume, his scene was the standout best scene in the movie.
This is the most comic book movie ever, and I loved.
It assumes you're familiar with the characters and just dives in with very little exposition. Most of the concepts that are really far out there are barely explained, you're just assumed to go with them (and the movie is better for it). Then in throws cameos, time travel and retconning.
People need to let go of their expectations when something is translated from one form to another. Especially page to film.
Douglass Adams was best at this, he rewrote all of his shit for each medium. Completely changed character around. It didn't matter...just made it for for the medium.
This isn't an expectation problem, it's a Singer problem. He's written her and other characters, like Cyclops, badly - it's not all Halle Berry's fault. She had to pressure Singer to give her character more to do with X2. The only directors with the modern cast have been Singer and Ratner, and Ratner's Ratner. Give it to a director and writers who are talented that want to give these characters the spotlight and the problem goes away.
Something I realized this morning, and really like.
At the end when Logan talks to Professor X, and Professor X pauses for a moment before saying, "Welcome back." That pause was Professor X reading Logan's mind, and learning about all the time-travel / alternate dimension shit that happened.
That was really, really well done. In the theater I thought, "Why did Stewart flub that line?" But he was acting.
Actually,
Given THAT Prof. X was the one involved with the "new" events, he was already aware of a Logan with a personality that showed him the future. My guess is that after Logan's mind "returned" to the future he blanked out, similar to what happened when they first encounter Mystique. Then, Prof. X realizes the time has come that the Logan that warned him of the future finally "returned" and he is welcoming that consciousness back.
+8
Options
Brainiac 8Don't call me Shirley...Registered Userregular
Guess I am the exception, then. While I thought it was great as a movie, I couldn't recommend the movie based on the sheer amount of
retconning.
The Retconning was probably the best thing about it. With as much as I liked X1/X2, that specific timeline was messed up all over the place with X3 and X-Men Origins. It rebooted the universe while still respecting it. I can now safely ignore any of the old movies. I'm ok with that. :P
Edit: Although, even with the retcon, you can still assume X1/X2 are still canon, because there isn't anything overly glaring that would shift them out of place. And you can even explain Jean dying at the end of X2 with an old Monty Python bit: She got better. :P
Maybe it just seems weird that she is the lynchpin of the whole thing when there are major mofos with god powers around.
That's actually true to the comic version of the initial cause of the anti-mutant hysteria that ends up with the Sentinel future, though in the comic it's Mystique
killing Senator Kelly, not Trask.
It's just a happy coincidence that J-Law also became a huge star in the last couple of years.
AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
I think the assumption is
sometime after the events of The Wolverine, the sentinel program goes live, forcing Charles and Erik to team up (as seen in the post-credits sequence in that film). Given the abundance of adamantium present in Japan, the now-reformed Erik rebonds the metal to Logan's claws (the rest of his skeleton should have been fine), and the X-Men rejoin themselves to fight the new threat. Then they all die.
if new-timeline Logan still has an adamantium skeleton? If Stryker never takes Wolverine in, he never gets the metal and he doesn't lose his memory. He wouldn't even be Logan anymore, he'd still be James Howlett. Will they address that in the next film? I fricken' hope so. Because Singer at least showed awareness of this continuity issue in DOFP, when Logan first wakes up in 1973 and the girl in his bed calls him, "Jimmy."
I liked all the old movies, so to me it was a slap in the face. Going to be overly skeptical about any future X-Men movies, unfortunately.
Even X3? Even Origins?
Yes, even those.
0
Options
Brainiac 8Don't call me Shirley...Registered Userregular
Wolverine/DoFP spoilers:
Singer insinuated that Logan and Stryker's future was going to be very similar now that Stryker has Logan on his radar. It will probably play out a lot differently now, but the end result should be the same.
Maybe it just seems weird that she is the lynchpin of the whole thing when there are major mofos with god powers around.
That's actually true to the comic version of the initial cause of the anti-mutant hysteria that ends up with the Sentinel future, though in the comic it's Mystique
killing Senator Kelly, not Trask.
It's just a happy coincidence that J-Law also became a huge star in the last couple of years.
Oh yeah, I'm aware of that. Just on screen it didn't seem to make much sense.
Although now
The hysteria will be about a god-like dude who dropped a STADIUM on the White House lawn. That works better for me
Steam ID: natinator Xbox Live: Natman PRIME LoL: A1 Sauce
i didn't think it ruined narrative tension for future movies. All it showed us that was that the good guys are going to win in the end of any movie, which is a given anyway. Also the only first class members we saw were beast and the professor. I would imagine they just won't use any of those other team members we saw, which makes sense because of the age thing.
i didn't think it ruined narrative tension for future movies. All it showed us that was that the good guys are going to win in the end of any movie, which is a given anyway. Also the only first class members we saw were beast and the professor. I would imagine they just won't use any of those other team members we saw, which makes sense because of the age thing.
X-men: Apocalypse spoilers
There's a rumor Scott, Jean etc will be teenagers. I'd like for Storm to be in that line-up.
Harry Dresden on
0
Options
Brainiac 8Don't call me Shirley...Registered Userregular
X-Men Apocalypse
I would love to see a major rebuilding of the X-Men in the next movie. Scott and Jean as teenagers need to be there. Havok and Beast being brought back. Introduce Polaris and Gambit.
This would make for a fun and interesting X-Men movie.
AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
Having the next movie be about the reformation of the Xavier School with the gathering together of younger members like Scott, Jean, and Ororo could be cool. Singer has already suggested that Quicksilver might be involved.
I wonder if/when they'll have to recast Wolverine. I mean, he basically doesn't age, but at some point, Jackman is going to.
Jackman is still contracted for two more films, which will likely be Apocalypse and the last Wolverine solo film. Maybe they'll adapt "Old Man Logan" for that.
0
Options
Brainiac 8Don't call me Shirley...Registered Userregular
I hope not. Old Man Logan was such a terrible story.
Singer insinuated that Logan and Stryker's future was going to be very similar now that Stryker has Logan on his radar. It will probably play out a lot differently now, but the end result should be the same.
Technically Stryker recruited Logan (Well, Howlette) and Sabertooth during Vietnam, then Howlet left the mutant team, did stuff for six years winding up in a relationship with Silverfox (on Stryker's orders) whom Sabertooth fake-kills, setting into motion Howlet joining the Weapon X project. In full honesty, I don't see why some approximation of that couldn't happen.
0
Options
Brainiac 8Don't call me Shirley...Registered Userregular
Oh, and for the love of God, bring Blink back for the next movie. She was by far one of the coolest additions to the movie.
Spoilerz:
That ending scene where Blink is single handedly fighting off four Nimrods was amazing. Watching her blink their attacks into each other was glorious.
I hope not. Old Man Logan was such a terrible story.
I want an adaptation of Fatal Attractions.
I haven't even read Old Man Logan, but I can't recall one good thing about the Fatal Attractions story I need to see on film. Most of it is set in space, IIRC. It's very 90s, in a bad way.
If Mystic was captured in timeline A by stark industries, then how is she the original xmen movies.
Also doesnt she have the ability to change how she looks so she wouldnt actually gain whoevers powers she looks like. So how does capturing her give the sentinels the ability to mimic everyones powers.
Also how does she change mass, she changes into a dwarf so does her body compress itself, also how does she grow clothing? Shouldnt she just transform into naked female versions of old french men with out a suit on.
I think the X-Factor segment of Fatal Attractions was very good, and almost completely divorced from the rest of the crossover. It had some great art, holo covers and mostly not great stories. Colossus leaving the X-Men to join the acolytes after Magneto crashes his sisters funeral in psycho mode was a low point.
So, I'm a weird one when it comes to X-Men comics. Blink has and will always be my absolute favorite mutant. Ever since she wrecked pretty much everyone's face in Age of Apocolypse (particularly her complete and utter defeat of Holocaust), I've been a number one fan of Blink. Seeing her powers used as creatively as they were was a real treat for me. I was grinning ear to ear. A shame we didn't get to know her too, but there wasn't time. Maybe we'll see her again now...actually, looking at Blink's Wiki, it says that Simon Kinberg is saying that we will see Blink again in X-Men: Apocolypse. That's exciting.
Nintendo Network ID: Oniros
3DS Friend Code: 1461-7489-3097
Posts
Which is also kind of true to the comics. Storylines ignored, character statuses lost down the back of the sofa, powers behaving differently under each writer.
Choose Your Own Chat 1 Choose Your Own Chat 2 Choose Your Own Chat 3
The Wolverine:
It also means that final scene of the movie ISN'T:
It wouldn't exactly be that but it sure as hell would get spun that way.
Indeed. But then that opens up things with New Magneto. Going by your definition, if he is in his 90's then, that means in 1973 he is in his 40's. Which he certainly doesn't look like.
He just seemed 'shakey', for lack of a better term, which kind of ruined the whole 'ultimately powerful badass' thing.
Also on that same sort of point (but not really)
Or couldn't Magneto just spear them with metal? He seemed kind of useless too be honest.
Haha. I'm sorry.
Don't get me wrong, I like JL as an actor. Just that the Mystique character I don't really like.
Maybe it just seems weird that she is the lynchpin of the whole thing when there are major mofos with god powers around.
Or the fact she seems like a spoiled brat.
Well... I haven't seen First Class in a while. That kind of sucks (that my hypothesis was wrong).
So on your last point.
It seemed that she was a teacher and considering Kitty was younger than Rogue and Bobby my guess they are also teachers at the school not students any more.
I love it though.
Also, this movie was awesome, and hands down the best X movie. For all the flack I gave Quicksilver for his terrible costume, his scene was the standout best scene in the movie.
Nintendo Network ID - Brainiac_8
PSN - Brainiac_8
Steam - http://steamcommunity.com/id/BRAINIAC8/
Add me!
It assumes you're familiar with the characters and just dives in with very little exposition. Most of the concepts that are really far out there are barely explained, you're just assumed to go with them (and the movie is better for it). Then in throws cameos, time travel and retconning.
Amazing.
This isn't an expectation problem, it's a Singer problem. He's written her and other characters, like Cyclops, badly - it's not all Halle Berry's fault. She had to pressure Singer to give her character more to do with X2. The only directors with the modern cast have been Singer and Ratner, and Ratner's Ratner. Give it to a director and writers who are talented that want to give these characters the spotlight and the problem goes away.
Actually,
The Retconning was probably the best thing about it. With as much as I liked X1/X2, that specific timeline was messed up all over the place with X3 and X-Men Origins. It rebooted the universe while still respecting it. I can now safely ignore any of the old movies. I'm ok with that. :P
Edit: Although, even with the retcon, you can still assume X1/X2 are still canon, because there isn't anything overly glaring that would shift them out of place. And you can even explain Jean dying at the end of X2 with an old Monty Python bit: She got better. :P
Nintendo Network ID - Brainiac_8
PSN - Brainiac_8
Steam - http://steamcommunity.com/id/BRAINIAC8/
Add me!
Even X3? Even Origins?
That's actually true to the comic version of the initial cause of the anti-mutant hysteria that ends up with the Sentinel future, though in the comic it's Mystique
Choose Your Own Chat 1 Choose Your Own Chat 2 Choose Your Own Chat 3
Also, I wonder
Yes, even those.
Nintendo Network ID - Brainiac_8
PSN - Brainiac_8
Steam - http://steamcommunity.com/id/BRAINIAC8/
Add me!
Oh yeah, I'm aware of that. Just on screen it didn't seem to make much sense.
Although now
X-men: Apocalypse spoilers
This would make for a fun and interesting X-Men movie.
Nintendo Network ID - Brainiac_8
PSN - Brainiac_8
Steam - http://steamcommunity.com/id/BRAINIAC8/
Add me!
They'll wait for the reboot. DOFP bought the franchise a few more years.
Jackman is still contracted for two more films, which will likely be Apocalypse and the last Wolverine solo film. Maybe they'll adapt "Old Man Logan" for that.
I want an adaptation of Fatal Attractions.
Nintendo Network ID - Brainiac_8
PSN - Brainiac_8
Steam - http://steamcommunity.com/id/BRAINIAC8/
Add me!
Spoilerz:
Nintendo Network ID - Brainiac_8
PSN - Brainiac_8
Steam - http://steamcommunity.com/id/BRAINIAC8/
Add me!
Blink can't be in the next movie. She starts with Logan's generation.
Nintendo Network ID - Brainiac_8
PSN - Brainiac_8
Steam - http://steamcommunity.com/id/BRAINIAC8/
Add me!
Why is that?
Or they could both end up amazing.
I'm sure Pietro in Avengers 2 will great.
Nintendo Network ID - Brainiac_8
PSN - Brainiac_8
Steam - http://steamcommunity.com/id/BRAINIAC8/
Add me!
I haven't even read Old Man Logan, but I can't recall one good thing about the Fatal Attractions story I need to see on film. Most of it is set in space, IIRC. It's very 90s, in a bad way.
Also doesnt she have the ability to change how she looks so she wouldnt actually gain whoevers powers she looks like. So how does capturing her give the sentinels the ability to mimic everyones powers.
Also how does she change mass, she changes into a dwarf so does her body compress itself, also how does she grow clothing? Shouldnt she just transform into naked female versions of old french men with out a suit on.
Choose Your Own Chat 1 Choose Your Own Chat 2 Choose Your Own Chat 3
It's a crazy, ugly comic, even by comic and Mark Millar standards. It also uses the wider MU for much of it's story.
The story was dumb and disturbing.
Nintendo Network ID - Brainiac_8
PSN - Brainiac_8
Steam - http://steamcommunity.com/id/BRAINIAC8/
Add me!
3DS Friend Code: 1461-7489-3097