Obviously we don't have the numbers specific to which parts of the fight people are dying, but when those stats came out that said 93% of people die against Fume Knight, I'd be my ass cheeks that not very many of them are dying during phase 1.
For me, phase 1 was basically just get good at avoiding attacks because you need to be spending this phase knocking his HP down for when you get to phase 2, not this phase is dangerous at all. I mean, it took me like 30 tries to get Fume down on my first character, and like maybe 1 or 2 of those was me dying before he powered up because I just misplayed completely. Every other one was messing up the dodge timing on his AOE that makes projectiles, or getting antsy and messing up my dodge on the slow laser sword, then he'd punish me and kill me if I tried to heal up.
For me, getting hit in phase 1 was never anything more than a nuisance, and a guarantee that phase 2, the real danger was going to take longer and thus increase my chance of dying.
well this might explain the difference in our perceptions then because i never tried to dodge through that
he has a super obvious tell when he does that, so if you just back up and then run through a hole as they spread out, you should avoid it completely and still have plenty of time to hit him
trying to actually dodge the fire is making things needlessly hard on yourself
I was always too close to him to dodge his explosion/fireballs by just running through. If I ran away enough that I could just run between them then I wouldn't be able to counterattack him after it.
If I dodge back then forward for the 2, I could actually use the opening to put damage on him. Either way, if his stuff is easy to dodge in phase 1 and easy to dodge in phase 2, then clearly the easier phase is the one where the attacks do less damage, and that's phase 1.
"It's easy to dodge" is always silly to say in Souls games anyway, because if he was easy to dodge than 93% of encounters against him wouldn't end in a trip back to the bonfire.
Not that I disbelieve you, it just wasnt what was killing me in phase one
I did go at it with 105 AGI though, maybe the extra iframes made a difference?
part of it might just be dodge styles idk, i don't remember what my agi was when i tackled it
i deffo don't think anything people are describing about weird attack hitboxes is unique to the second phase though, i was definitely having issues with eyeballing dodges either way
i also found both his fire attacks in phase 2 to give plenty of time to drink, due to my aforementioned belief that they are much easier to dodge than phase 1
but since we all have such different beliefs about what part is harder i am going to declare fume knight a Good Boss because different strategies clearly benefit different phases more
i had way more trouble with the cat in ivory king :B
My problem with the fume knight is that you're not really allowed any mistakes on the second phase. Second phase, you're allowed MAYBE one hit, and that's because he's so relentless, that it's incredibly hard to use a flask. This makes the fight hard to learn, I think, because you're not given the time you need. You're not ALLOWED mistakes, so you cant learn from them.
EDIT: That's it. I give up. I concede. I am not good enough at video games to beat this boss. I'm down to my last effigy, my last bit of health, and I cant do it. I started with 20.
Does anyone at soul memory around 909K want to attempt to carry my fucking terrible ass through this fight, or should I just uninstall the game and move onto playing a game I can fucking finish?
If you're struggling that much, you should just take a break from him. Do something else for a couple of days, relax, maybe even farm up some effigies. Then come back at him rested and with confidence, summon some stuff and kick his ass around the room.
Whenever I've really gotten stuck on a boss in this game, that's what I've done. After failing 20 times in a row, I'm undoubtedly on tilt and when that happens its better to just do something else for a few days.
Edit: Finally got to Undead Crypt on my No-Death run. Shrine was surprisingly easy, all things considered. But then I've been through it about 5 or 6 times before and knew where to stand to snipe all the mages before they could get off more than a couple of shots.
My problem with the fume knight is that you're not really allowed any mistakes on the second phase. Second phase, you're allowed MAYBE one hit, and that's because he's so relentless, that it's incredibly hard to use a flask. This makes the fight hard to learn, I think, because you're not given the time you need. You're not ALLOWED mistakes, so you cant learn from them.
EDIT: That's it. I give up. I concede. I am not good enough at video games to beat this boss. I'm down to my last effigy, my last bit of health, and I cant do it. I started with 20.
Does anyone at soul memory around 909K want to attempt to carry my fucking terrible ass through this fight, or should I just uninstall the game and move onto playing a game I can fucking finish?
I don't have the DLC, but is there a reason why people aren't using lifegems or divine blessings rather than flasks? I found those to be way more helpful in fights when I'm pressed.
My problem with the fume knight is that you're not really allowed any mistakes on the second phase. Second phase, you're allowed MAYBE one hit, and that's because he's so relentless, that it's incredibly hard to use a flask. This makes the fight hard to learn, I think, because you're not given the time you need. You're not ALLOWED mistakes, so you cant learn from them.
EDIT: That's it. I give up. I concede. I am not good enough at video games to beat this boss. I'm down to my last effigy, my last bit of health, and I cant do it. I started with 20.
Does anyone at soul memory around 909K want to attempt to carry my fucking terrible ass through this fight, or should I just uninstall the game and move onto playing a game I can fucking finish?
No man, don't give up!
Whenever I hit a brick wall in a boss fight, I'd just drop my sign down and help other people which would give me an opportunity to get comfortable with the boss' move set in a safe environment. Then after leveling up a bit and learning how to tackle the boss, I'd go at it again.
My problem with the fume knight is that you're not really allowed any mistakes on the second phase. Second phase, you're allowed MAYBE one hit, and that's because he's so relentless, that it's incredibly hard to use a flask. This makes the fight hard to learn, I think, because you're not given the time you need. You're not ALLOWED mistakes, so you cant learn from them.
EDIT: That's it. I give up. I concede. I am not good enough at video games to beat this boss. I'm down to my last effigy, my last bit of health, and I cant do it. I started with 20.
Does anyone at soul memory around 909K want to attempt to carry my fucking terrible ass through this fight, or should I just uninstall the game and move onto playing a game I can fucking finish?
If you're summoning people, that'd be the first thing to stop IMO. Fume knight is not at all a boss where you can really summon people to do the work for you. He's brutal, and when you summon, he doesn't really become less brutal. He just takes longer to kill, which means if you're hanging back you're trying to get somebody else to basically do a double health Fume Knight alone which means they'll probably just die.
And most of his attacks have some AOE to them and what not, so you can't just get behind him and smack away all his health while the other person keeps his attention either.
At least for me, I felt like every attempt where I summoned help was a waste of time, and once i quit and just focused on not getting hit at all in phase 1 so phase 2 would be as short as possible since he'd have less health when he entered it, that's when I ended up pushing through and beating him.
Then I beat him on the first try with my 2nd an 3rd characters that I did him on, so that was nice.
He's a monster, but you shouldn't give up. Maybe go somewhere else and do something else in the game for a while and come back though?
I have gotten back into Dark Souls 1 and the changes really are rather startling after being so used to 2.
I haven't gotten used to the iframes for dodging, given that they aren't nearly as front loaded as in 2. You have to delay a little bit with 1, where in 2 you are likely to be fine of you're rolllong right before an attack. I have noticed though a lot more attacks which still affect you physically in a dodge, even if you have iframes. No damage, but you are moved. It is very annoying.
Parrying and backstabbing are so much better though. I know why they changed the mechanic but it is just supremely more satisfying to do them both, and unlike dodging is like riding a bike. You never forget how. Parry killed that first Black Knight flawlessly.
I'm not summoning anyone, is the thing. In fact, the one time I TRIED summoning someone, it was the NPC, and that was the ONE TIME I got him under 50% health.
And I've tried putting down my sign and getting some practice in. I have not been successfully summoned at all this entire run. Because I did a bit of farming early on and my soul memory has been completely fucked! Thanks from.
EDIT: I've done it. I beat him. Holy shit, that was intense....Now where go?
Edit 2: Oh. I need the ashen mist heart to do the rest...Baaaaah.
heenato on
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GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
So apparently something happened to my DS2 saves. Oh well, I wanted to play through it again anyway.
I decided to get all the DLC finally. . .who the fuck decided difficulty equated to a shit ton of poise. Or maybe it's not poise related, because my silly Battle-Mage with a MLGS can stun these enemies in one hit, but a smack from my Dark Heavy Hitter and their SCH don't?! The fug.
Overall the design of the DLC was pretty good, but as usual its the little things that stink in this game.
I also went full caestus on a character and have made it to the DLC and. . .it gets kind of boring. I mean it's cool to just run and bunch things for awhile, but limiting yourself in such a way makes the gameplay a chore rather than fun. I do think they look badass though (went with a Steelheart Eddie in the first DLC look complete with Black Witch Veil - whose drop prompted the roleplay).
"Get the hell out of me" - [ex]girlfriend
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GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
edited October 2014
It's amazing how much of Dark Souls comes down to knowledge. This is my third or fourth play through of DaS2, and it's going so smoothly. I know what I want, where to get it, and how to upgrade it. Still a hell of a lot of fun, but more in a "how efficient can I make these runs" sort of way, instead of the nervous anticipation of the unknown.
Yeah, those aren't hitbox issues, those are "You used up your iframes and when you came out of them you're inside the weapon or in its path" issues. I-frames mean doing things that don't actually make sense, IE dodging where your body goes right through an enemy's weapon but not taking damage. You just have to dodge through weapons instead of with their movement path to avoid those issues.
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GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
One other thing to note about iframes, AGI effects it. Characters with higher AGI have more iframes in their roll. I believe it's 16 iframes at 120 AGI.
Yeah, I think everybody knows about i-frames, aka making a new character and feeling like a scrub while you remember how to dodge stuff with 85 AGI or whatever you have until you increase ADP some. Hah
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GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
Yeah, on my lighter characters, I don't feel even remotely right until I'm over 100 AGI. 110 is when I really start to feel comfortable.
Yeah, those aren't hitbox issues, those are "You used up your iframes and when you came out of them you're inside the weapon or in its path" issues. I-frames mean doing things that don't actually make sense, IE dodging where your body goes right through an enemy's weapon but not taking damage. You just have to dodge through weapons instead of with their movement path to avoid those issues.
I'm referring to dodging through, not with Fume Knight's attacks. They're just that wife
Oh, if you're talking about how he swings that two hander around the back of his body and can hit you after it goes all the way around, then yeah, I've seen Fume do some of those. It's like wtf, the attack is still going around his whole body? But I just got used to it after seeing which one did it.
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
Velstadht can also do that.
It's a side to side swing.
Dodge straight into him or away from him.
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited October 2014
There is a right way to dodge an attack in dark souls. Perpendicular to the attacks motion. Anything else is quite risky, but you can use the times when you don't get hit doing this to go "oh I should probably make sure to dodge that one perpendicular so I don't fall into bad habits". Think of the times you don't get hit dodging wrong as a friendly warning.
This is why equip weight is a genuinely big deal. With high equip weight you roll in place and are still in the danger zone, just relying on your i frames and nothing else.
Light weight characters can fuck up a roll by rolling too early and not get hit because the roll distance puts them outside the attacks hitbox.
50-60-70% characters do not get this luxury.
A really good example is the ogre right at the start. You try to take that fucker with too high an equip weight you can't roll out of his combo. You have to dodge every hit.
My naked caestus man cleaned him up good and proper because all I had to do was roll the first swing and the rest autowhiffed. After that I could just stand close enough to him, safely out of reach, so that he finished his combo and I could hit him in his recovery.
Stripping down to fight bad guys is still a quality strategy in this game. A lot of times you need that roll distance more than you need the defence.
As an added plus you can use it for offense as well to get in.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
Yeah, after my first playthrough being on a ~68% weight Paladin type dude, I was like I don't know what the big deal is, I can roll just fine. Then I played ~30% weight characters with that long distance roll and I was like oh, okay now I get it. Playing near 70% is hard mode even with i-frames. You have to have much more precise timing, and even then, certain attacks have to be dodged differently because of the lower travel distance on the roll.
When I went to play Dark Souls 1 for the first time(after DS2), I couldn't even stand the mid roll in that game and had to abandon my character concept of a medium armor dude just so I could have the sub 25% roll. It's why I like DS2's method much better, since I can be in the 30s or 40s and still have my roll feel okay to me.
The ogre at the beginning I only ever have to dodge behind once, because once you get behind him you just lock him in to his butt drop attack permanently.
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
I didn't know that!
Nice.
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
Yeah, I found out because I was determined to beat him when I first started the game, and I just kept on dodging way too early and dying to his grab attack, and then I got behind him and realized he only ever does the butt drop if you're behind him. He'll just spam it. You don't even have to dodge really, just side step, attack, repeat.
So, I waffled on it for awhile, but I've now moved into the "Fuck you, from" camp for making you able to be invaded while hollow. Because INVARITABLY, while I'm just trying to make fucking progress in ivory king, because enemies have more poise than half the bosses in the game, I get invaded by the same dickbag who can parry me fucking perfectly.
Unfortunately, that's not an option for me, because for some godforsaken reason related to a haunted computer, offline mode absolutely tanks the framerate for me!
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
What?
That's just weird.
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
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well this might explain the difference in our perceptions then because i never tried to dodge through that
he has a super obvious tell when he does that, so if you just back up and then run through a hole as they spread out, you should avoid it completely and still have plenty of time to hit him
trying to actually dodge the fire is making things needlessly hard on yourself
Nah the only difficulty in phase 1 are the two quick countetstrikes
The one with the short blade is especially hard to get a dodge rhythm for, but the large blade one is deceptively fast too.
if you dodge through a large blade attack, it's actually possible to get hit on the other side as his swing finishes
If I dodge back then forward for the 2, I could actually use the opening to put damage on him. Either way, if his stuff is easy to dodge in phase 1 and easy to dodge in phase 2, then clearly the easier phase is the one where the attacks do less damage, and that's phase 1.
"It's easy to dodge" is always silly to say in Souls games anyway, because if he was easy to dodge than 93% of encounters against him wouldn't end in a trip back to the bonfire.
Not that I disbelieve you, it just wasnt what was killing me in phase one
I did go at it with 105 AGI though, maybe the extra iframes made a difference?
part of it might just be dodge styles idk, i don't remember what my agi was when i tackled it
i deffo don't think anything people are describing about weird attack hitboxes is unique to the second phase though, i was definitely having issues with eyeballing dodges either way
i also found both his fire attacks in phase 2 to give plenty of time to drink, due to my aforementioned belief that they are much easier to dodge than phase 1
but since we all have such different beliefs about what part is harder i am going to declare fume knight a Good Boss because different strategies clearly benefit different phases more
EDIT: That's it. I give up. I concede. I am not good enough at video games to beat this boss. I'm down to my last effigy, my last bit of health, and I cant do it. I started with 20.
Does anyone at soul memory around 909K want to attempt to carry my fucking terrible ass through this fight, or should I just uninstall the game and move onto playing a game I can fucking finish?
Whenever I've really gotten stuck on a boss in this game, that's what I've done. After failing 20 times in a row, I'm undoubtedly on tilt and when that happens its better to just do something else for a few days.
Edit: Finally got to Undead Crypt on my No-Death run. Shrine was surprisingly easy, all things considered. But then I've been through it about 5 or 6 times before and knew where to stand to snipe all the mages before they could get off more than a couple of shots.
I don't have the DLC, but is there a reason why people aren't using lifegems or divine blessings rather than flasks? I found those to be way more helpful in fights when I'm pressed.
"i might need those later!"
it took the 3rd DLC's challenge area to convince me to actually use a brightbug
No man, don't give up!
Whenever I hit a brick wall in a boss fight, I'd just drop my sign down and help other people which would give me an opportunity to get comfortable with the boss' move set in a safe environment. Then after leveling up a bit and learning how to tackle the boss, I'd go at it again.
If you're summoning people, that'd be the first thing to stop IMO. Fume knight is not at all a boss where you can really summon people to do the work for you. He's brutal, and when you summon, he doesn't really become less brutal. He just takes longer to kill, which means if you're hanging back you're trying to get somebody else to basically do a double health Fume Knight alone which means they'll probably just die.
And most of his attacks have some AOE to them and what not, so you can't just get behind him and smack away all his health while the other person keeps his attention either.
At least for me, I felt like every attempt where I summoned help was a waste of time, and once i quit and just focused on not getting hit at all in phase 1 so phase 2 would be as short as possible since he'd have less health when he entered it, that's when I ended up pushing through and beating him.
Then I beat him on the first try with my 2nd an 3rd characters that I did him on, so that was nice.
He's a monster, but you shouldn't give up. Maybe go somewhere else and do something else in the game for a while and come back though?
I haven't gotten used to the iframes for dodging, given that they aren't nearly as front loaded as in 2. You have to delay a little bit with 1, where in 2 you are likely to be fine of you're rolllong right before an attack. I have noticed though a lot more attacks which still affect you physically in a dodge, even if you have iframes. No damage, but you are moved. It is very annoying.
Parrying and backstabbing are so much better though. I know why they changed the mechanic but it is just supremely more satisfying to do them both, and unlike dodging is like riding a bike. You never forget how. Parry killed that first Black Knight flawlessly.
Bed can still fuck right off.
And I've tried putting down my sign and getting some practice in. I have not been successfully summoned at all this entire run. Because I did a bit of farming early on and my soul memory has been completely fucked! Thanks from.
EDIT: I've done it. I beat him. Holy shit, that was intense....Now where go?
Edit 2: Oh. I need the ashen mist heart to do the rest...Baaaaah.
So yep.
Overall the design of the DLC was pretty good, but as usual its the little things that stink in this game.
I also went full caestus on a character and have made it to the DLC and. . .it gets kind of boring. I mean it's cool to just run and bunch things for awhile, but limiting yourself in such a way makes the gameplay a chore rather than fun. I do think they look badass though (went with a Steelheart Eddie in the first DLC look complete with Black Witch Veil - whose drop prompted the roleplay).
But playing around with a new and cool weapon and bringing a build together is also fun.
Which is why i make new characters.
that happens with any large blade character if you dodge the wrong way
velstadt for example
it means you dodged the wrong way
dodge the right way
I'm referring to dodging through, not with Fume Knight's attacks. They're just that wife
It's a side to side swing.
Dodge straight into him or away from him.
This is why equip weight is a genuinely big deal. With high equip weight you roll in place and are still in the danger zone, just relying on your i frames and nothing else.
Light weight characters can fuck up a roll by rolling too early and not get hit because the roll distance puts them outside the attacks hitbox.
50-60-70% characters do not get this luxury.
A really good example is the ogre right at the start. You try to take that fucker with too high an equip weight you can't roll out of his combo. You have to dodge every hit.
My naked caestus man cleaned him up good and proper because all I had to do was roll the first swing and the rest autowhiffed. After that I could just stand close enough to him, safely out of reach, so that he finished his combo and I could hit him in his recovery.
Stripping down to fight bad guys is still a quality strategy in this game. A lot of times you need that roll distance more than you need the defence.
As an added plus you can use it for offense as well to get in.
When I went to play Dark Souls 1 for the first time(after DS2), I couldn't even stand the mid roll in that game and had to abandon my character concept of a medium armor dude just so I could have the sub 25% roll. It's why I like DS2's method much better, since I can be in the 30s or 40s and still have my roll feel okay to me.
The ogre at the beginning I only ever have to dodge behind once, because once you get behind him you just lock him in to his butt drop attack permanently.
Nice.
And it's not an NPC phantom. I checked.
All worlds are connected.
You see shadows of other worlds and you get those shadows appearing in yours.
It's very much part of the mythos of the games.
A lot of them just happen to have an unfortunate name. :P
If it is really bothering you burn a humanity. Effigy. I forget what they're called now.
after i'd killed everything
i literally shouted at the tv
I play these games first time offline anyway because I don't want message spoilers. I find my own secrets.
Second time through on a new character is when the invasions happen. And then I find the dozens of secrets I completely missed.
That's just weird.
I almost never do it
Has worked out pretty well so far