I'm still salty about Missy 'dying' the way she did. It'd be so much easier to bring her back from the Doctor using her own device on her - makes sense that she'd have some safeguards in it, and it seemed to be her plan. To have CyberBrig intervene at the last second is just... blarg. We know she's gonna survive, why make it so seemingly final, y'know?
Her whole plan was to build a cyberman army and give control over to the Doctor. I wouldn't be surprised if she went "I should probably put in a safeguard so the Doctor can't kill me."
So who's to say this Missy isn't from earlier in her time stream. And the events of this season are what propel her to try to prove to the Doctor that they are the same? I mean, that seems like Moffat plotting 101.
The whole conversion into a woman thing could be explained by the Master getting messed up during his ring resurrection. He probably got further messed up by that medical template machine as well.
It would be interesting if regenerating into a woman was the only way he could survive. Like he had to patch himself or something.
I actually really, really like that they basically had character transition genders and didn't try to 'explain it'.
So yeah, lets not do something gross with that like make an explanation of how Missy was pushed into picking the form she did.
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited July 2015
I don't give a flying fuck personally.
She's a woman. I'm totally down. I need no explanation.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
Every time I get even the little bit upset about something in Doctor Who I just sing the MSTK3 theme song in my head and tell myself it's just a show and I should really just relax.
I mean it's a show about a space wizard who travels in time so it really can't have too much consistency anyway, can it?
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Mostly just huntin' monsters.
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It is just sometimes they get a little too loose with the logic. Typically, the endings fall apart. Stuff like the new moon being the same size as the old one and the golden arrow fixing the spaceship made me wonder if the writers were lazy or they messed up in production.
The Davies stuff was much more tighter. Only the Absorbaloft episode and the "Dalek" one were off.
Krathoon on
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Dark Raven XLaugh hard, run fast,be kindRegistered Userregular
The RTD era is routinely ridiculed for it's deus ex machina solutions too tho! Typically some big unwinnable situation would arise that'd then be fixed by one line of technobabble. It's what made Series 5 a nice change of pace - the problem was seeded throughout, and the solution was introduced an episode early and had a whole episode build it up before they used it to fix everything.
Some of that stuff in Series 8 felt like an intentional throwback to those earlier days - the gold arrow was some especially silly bullshit that had to be on purpose. Kill The Moon's ending felt more like they didn't think about it. :P
The RTD stuff made sense though. They would just have some stupid moments, but they did not taint the whole episode.
Oh. I do remember some stupid alien and planet names though. Raxacoricofallapatorius and the Lost Moon of Poosh. Slitheen were dumb. Would have worked better with some holographic force shield device.
Still, it is a huge universe.
I liked the crazy stuff mentioned about the Time War though. I wish they had some cutaways to show them.
The show tends to show it is low budget off and on.
Deus Ex solutions for RTD rarely bothered me (except for perhaps the solution to The End of Time trilogy - it seemed so lazy for a great series of episodes to that point). What bothered me was the stupidity.
JacobkoshGamble a stamp.I can show you how to be a real man!Moderatormod
I loved Time Heist, but the forest episode and Kill the Moon really murdered the momentum the series had had for me, and the finale was busy and nonsensical, which I expect, but also kind of crass, which I did not expect or really appreciate.
Still, it was a pretty terrific season on balance. I'm kind of disappointed that Jamie Mathieson is only writing half of one story this year, though. He's the best thing Who's had in ages.
The entire series was justified just by that scene of them strolling into the bank in Time Heist.
It really showed off just how talented the team on Doctor Who is. They shifted the show from whacky sci-fi to a stylish heist movie effortlessly.
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JacobkoshGamble a stamp.I can show you how to be a real man!Moderatormod
Listen and part one of the finale felt like Moffat doing the sort of cool, innovative high concept thing he was capable of before becoming executive producer. Into the Dalek felt like Moffat actually stretching his muscles and trying out something different tonally - a bigger cast, with more memorable personalities, and dialog that wasn't written by the Bantertron.
Robot of Sherwood was the same kind of slightly camp thing Gatiss always does but it was the absolute best camp Gatiss has ever done and I hope he has finally found his perfect balance.
I like that Gareth Roberts has found his place on the show as the domestic comedy guy, and his scripts continue to improve the more he's willing to focus on what we're here to see - the Doctor turning some poor ordinary human's life upside down - while the villain of the week becomes more perfunctory.
The RTD stuff made sense though. They would just have some stupid moments, but they did not taint the whole episode.
Oh. I do remember some stupid alien and planet names though. Raxacoricofallapatorius and the Lost Moon of Poosh. Slitheen were dumb. Would have worked better with some holographic force shield device.
Still, it is a huge universe.
I liked the crazy stuff mentioned about the Time War though. I wish they had some cutaways to show them.
The show tends to show it is low budget off and on.
This is what really bothers me about Missy this go around.
Say what you want about RTD's plots (I also think they were fine), at least he tried getting characters out of the corners they were painted in.
Here, Moffat practically verbatim said "Yeah Missy got shot and died. Now she's back. Why? Cuz she's the Master/Missy, of course!". To say nothing of her existence in the first place.
Like... I don't need extensive detail here. Just try. Do something! You're a writer. Do your job and write something.
Does it really qualify as a Deus Ex Machina when there isn't even a damn Machina?
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
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AManFromEarthLet's get to twerk!The King in the SwampRegistered Userregular
You mean like when the Master died and then was brought back by magic?
Or the constant obsession with prophecy to explain plot holes?
+7
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Dark Raven XLaugh hard, run fast,be kindRegistered Userregular
I'd say Moffat seems to put more thought into the moving parts of a story, making things make sense than RTD did. If I remember right, he said a few times that he'd think up the mechanics of the plot as the very last thing, it was all characters and emotions for him. Getting them out of the dead end situation was literally an afterthought.
And if ya rewatch those early eps it shows. The Series 3 ending is especially rough. The last 2 episodes get erased and undone because reasons.
You mean like when the Master died and then was brought back by magic?
Or the constant obsession with prophecy to explain plot holes?
It's arguably better than absolutely nothing.
Or a better alternative is, if you don't want to do anything - which is totally reasonable and valid! - then don't intentionally write your character into a corner you have zero interest in explaining how they got out of. They could have simply had Missy run away at the end and it would have been perfectly serviceable.
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
Here, Moffat practically verbatim said "Yeah Missy got shot and died. Now she's back. Why? Cuz she's the Master/Missy, of course!". To say nothing of her existence in the first place.
Like... I don't need extensive detail here. Just try. Do something! You're a writer. Do your job and write something.
Does it really qualify as a Deus Ex Machina when there isn't even a damn Machina?
Isn't it a bit early to criticize Moffat for not explaining how he brought Missy back from the dead when the episode hasn't even aired yet?
Wasn't that explanation (the "Of course she's back, she's The Master!") from an interview? Of course he's being coy in an interview, that would spoil the episode!
Raxacoricofallapatorius was a fantastic name, and let's be honest, if we start meeting aliens en masse, at least species of them is going to have a planet with a name that has a mouthful of syllables.
Here, Moffat practically verbatim said "Yeah Missy got shot and died. Now she's back. Why? Cuz she's the Master/Missy, of course!". To say nothing of her existence in the first place.
Like... I don't need extensive detail here. Just try. Do something! You're a writer. Do your job and write something.
Does it really qualify as a Deus Ex Machina when there isn't even a damn Machina?
Isn't it a bit early to criticize Moffat for not explaining how he brought Missy back from the dead when the episode hasn't even aired yet?
Wasn't that explanation (the "Of course she's back, she's The Master!") from an interview? Of course he's being coy in an interview, that would spoil the episode!
Thank you, I was going to say this myelf. "They didn't tell us the hand wavy bullshit a year ahead of time, those hacks!".
That and her being a her is A-OK without an explanation. Her breathing again, though, is the line? On this show?
I swear he said in some interview that not only is she back, but that he wasn't bother going to even explain it, other than "Cuz it's the Master of course".
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
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Zilla36021st Century. |She/Her|Trans* Woman In Aviators Firing A Bazooka. ⚛️Registered Userregular
Raxacoricofallapatorius was a fantastic name, and let's be honest, if we start meeting aliens en masse, at least species of them is going to have a planet with a name that has a mouthful of syllables.
Yeah, like there must be planets in the Who universe with names you can only pronounce correctly by biting on your tongue whilst tapping your fingers on your vocal chords. :P
MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited July 2015
There must be names you can't pronounce.
There must be names for which you can't even make the sounds.
He just picks up a foghorn with a distorter on it or something and uses that in place of the name in the line.
"We are going to the planet" *distorted foghorn* "Any questions?"
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
There must be names you can't pronounce.
There must be names for which you can't even make the sounds.
He just picks up a foghorn with a distorter on it or something and uses that in place of the name in the line.
"We are going to the planet" *distorted foghorn* "Any questions?"
I always love when they give coordinates, or like a year or something
and its like "129 gamma flame strawberry" or something ridiculous like that.
There must be names you can't pronounce.
There must be names for which you can't even make the sounds.
He just picks up a foghorn with a distorter on it or something and uses that in place of the name in the line.
"We are going to the planet" *distorted foghorn* "Any questions?"
The RTD stuff made sense though. They would just have some stupid moments, but they did not taint the whole episode.
Remember when the Doctor turned into Dobby?
Remember when the Doctor became Space Jesus in Last of the Time Lords?
The episode still has a logic to it.
Also, either regeneration technology kept him alive when he super aged or the Doctor is something more than a Time Lord. That has been implied in the past (seventh Doctor).
Atkinson would do a great job. Next time, maybe? He would work great as another time lord that was locked away somewhere.
You mean like when the Master died and then was brought back by magic?
Or the constant obsession with prophecy to explain plot holes?
It's arguably better than absolutely nothing.
Or a better alternative is, if you don't want to do anything - which is totally reasonable and valid! - then don't intentionally write your character into a corner you have zero interest in explaining how they got out of. They could have simply had Missy run away at the end and it would have been perfectly serviceable.
It's not really RTD or moffets fault.
It's the American TV movies fault. Prior to that, the master escaped, got burned really bad, walked around as a mostly crispy skull, stole bodies to survive. Then the movie came along and made him a pile of goo that could think.
After that, using magic to bring him back isnt as terribad an idea.
Granted. It was completely stupid. I just mean once you cross the really stupid line, anything goes.
If posting on a forum for several years has taught me anything at all, it is that the "really stupid line" is in a completely different place for different people.
Sometimes a different planet.
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
Still, Goo Snake Master at least felt more sci-fi than Harry Potter Master. The TV Movie still tried to keep the show in sci-fi territory.
The whole bit about using the Eye of Harmony to swap regenerations did not make much sense though.
It was like some weird American rerun of The Deadly Assassin.
On the plus side, though, what we got was eleventy times better than any of the drafts for the TV movie. Reading The Nth Doctor was an eye opener and I have appreciated the TV movie more than ever since then.
I still give RTD mad props for making it look like all his shit was connected and that he had a master plan for everything. "He will knock four times", the hand/Metacrisis Doctor/Wilf/Donna/Bad Wolf. He was making it up as he went along, but when you look at past episodes, they link up so well.
Moffat tried to do it with the cracks, even bringing them back in 11's final episode. But it never really felt the same or as tight.
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
Posts
Her whole plan was to build a cyberman army and give control over to the Doctor. I wouldn't be surprised if she went "I should probably put in a safeguard so the Doctor can't kill me."
I guess the Doctor just left it laying around.
I actually really, really like that they basically had character transition genders and didn't try to 'explain it'.
So yeah, lets not do something gross with that like make an explanation of how Missy was pushed into picking the form she did.
She's a woman. I'm totally down. I need no explanation.
I mean it's a show about a space wizard who travels in time so it really can't have too much consistency anyway, can it?
XBL:Phenyhelm - 3DS:Phenyhelm
The Davies stuff was much more tighter. Only the Absorbaloft episode and the "Dalek" one were off.
Some of that stuff in Series 8 felt like an intentional throwback to those earlier days - the gold arrow was some especially silly bullshit that had to be on purpose. Kill The Moon's ending felt more like they didn't think about it. :P
Oh. I do remember some stupid alien and planet names though. Raxacoricofallapatorius and the Lost Moon of Poosh. Slitheen were dumb. Would have worked better with some holographic force shield device.
Still, it is a huge universe.
I liked the crazy stuff mentioned about the Time War though. I wish they had some cutaways to show them.
The show tends to show it is low budget off and on.
RTD gave us Love and Monsters. Nuff said.
Still, it was a pretty terrific season on balance. I'm kind of disappointed that Jamie Mathieson is only writing half of one story this year, though. He's the best thing Who's had in ages.
It really showed off just how talented the team on Doctor Who is. They shifted the show from whacky sci-fi to a stylish heist movie effortlessly.
Robot of Sherwood was the same kind of slightly camp thing Gatiss always does but it was the absolute best camp Gatiss has ever done and I hope he has finally found his perfect balance.
I like that Gareth Roberts has found his place on the show as the domestic comedy guy, and his scripts continue to improve the more he's willing to focus on what we're here to see - the Doctor turning some poor ordinary human's life upside down - while the villain of the week becomes more perfunctory.
This is what really bothers me about Missy this go around.
Say what you want about RTD's plots (I also think they were fine), at least he tried getting characters out of the corners they were painted in.
Here, Moffat practically verbatim said "Yeah Missy got shot and died. Now she's back. Why? Cuz she's the Master/Missy, of course!". To say nothing of her existence in the first place.
Like... I don't need extensive detail here. Just try. Do something! You're a writer. Do your job and write something.
Does it really qualify as a Deus Ex Machina when there isn't even a damn Machina?
Or the constant obsession with prophecy to explain plot holes?
And if ya rewatch those early eps it shows. The Series 3 ending is especially rough. The last 2 episodes get erased and undone because reasons.
It's arguably better than absolutely nothing.
Or a better alternative is, if you don't want to do anything - which is totally reasonable and valid! - then don't intentionally write your character into a corner you have zero interest in explaining how they got out of. They could have simply had Missy run away at the end and it would have been perfectly serviceable.
Isn't it a bit early to criticize Moffat for not explaining how he brought Missy back from the dead when the episode hasn't even aired yet?
Wasn't that explanation (the "Of course she's back, she's The Master!") from an interview? Of course he's being coy in an interview, that would spoil the episode!
Thank you, I was going to say this myelf. "They didn't tell us the hand wavy bullshit a year ahead of time, those hacks!".
That and her being a her is A-OK without an explanation. Her breathing again, though, is the line? On this show?
There must be names for which you can't even make the sounds.
He just picks up a foghorn with a distorter on it or something and uses that in place of the name in the line.
"We are going to the planet" *distorted foghorn* "Any questions?"
Remember when the Doctor turned into Dobby?
Remember when the Doctor became Space Jesus in Last of the Time Lords?
I always love when they give coordinates, or like a year or something
and its like "129 gamma flame strawberry" or something ridiculous like that.
Very, very related:
I wish he was a real Doctor.
The episode still has a logic to it.
Also, either regeneration technology kept him alive when he super aged or the Doctor is something more than a Time Lord. That has been implied in the past (seventh Doctor).
Atkinson would do a great job. Next time, maybe? He would work great as another time lord that was locked away somewhere.
Still, that does play off the seventh Doctor stuff. It is pretty much a Jesus/Devil, God/Devil, Cain/Abel, or Good/Evil kind of thing.
The psychic network was a stretch, but it was a decent plot device to explain what was going on.
I am not a huge fan of the "Messiah Doctor" episode. If you really look at it though, it works out because he outsmarts the Master.
It's not really RTD or moffets fault.
It's the American TV movies fault. Prior to that, the master escaped, got burned really bad, walked around as a mostly crispy skull, stole bodies to survive. Then the movie came along and made him a pile of goo that could think.
After that, using magic to bring him back isnt as terribad an idea.
The whole bit about using the Eye of Harmony to swap regenerations did not make much sense though.
If posting on a forum for several years has taught me anything at all, it is that the "really stupid line" is in a completely different place for different people.
Sometimes a different planet.
It was like some weird American rerun of The Deadly Assassin.
On the plus side, though, what we got was eleventy times better than any of the drafts for the TV movie. Reading The Nth Doctor was an eye opener and I have appreciated the TV movie more than ever since then.
Moffat tried to do it with the cracks, even bringing them back in 11's final episode. But it never really felt the same or as tight.