I am all about Varys and Tyrion being Bros against the world
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knitdanIn ur baseKillin ur guysRegistered Userregular
I'm getting really tired of having this conversation with myself:
Me, first watch: WHAT! How can they change that, it's crucial! These showrunners are total hacks, I hate them!
Me, after thinking about it: Well I guess it's not the end of the world and it does simplify X plotline. I guess it's hard to justify keeping an actor on payroll when they disappear for so long. As long as they don't change this other thing I can live with it.
Inevitably Me, watching a later episode: They changed the other thing! Aaaargh!
“I was quick when I came in here, I’m twice as quick now”
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
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AtomicTofuShe's a straight-up supervillain, yoRegistered Userregular
I gotta say, these conversations are painfully written.
It was bad. The entire episode was just such a disappointment from a book readers perspective. Varys doesn't talk like that, Tyrion doesn't talk like that, and Stannis only does if you take out like 80% of his amazing lines.
I was pretty disappointed with half of the conversations, especially Varys and Tyrion. But everything else was great great great. I am very happy that I am not a book reader. I know that it is different, but I don't really care (except for when the show cuts something from the books for no reason except to make it terrible [like Tyrion's killing of Tywin]).
Gvzbgul on
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Zonugal(He/Him) The Holiday ArmadilloI'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered Userregular
Like it has been a year or two since I re read the series but when I think of Varys I think:
Witty, sly, cares about the realm more than most, thought Robert was a shit king, likes Tyrion but is aware of his flaws, hides his competence from most people
So he felt pretty in line with the Varys I remember
As a book reader I thought everyone felt pretty dang in character
Varys and Stannis objectively were not.
Apparently not because I don't think so
Re-read the relevant chapters then.
Book spoilers
Varys goes to extraordinary lengths to never let anyone know who he's really working for or what his plans are. It was never spelled out that he was working for the Targaryan's until the very end of DwD (to a dying Kevan Lannister), and even then he didn't give away even a quarter of the information he did here.
Stannis doesn't resemble the character he is in the books to any extent. In the show, he's a cartoon villain who lives and dies on Melisandre's every word. In the books, he was a very complicated morally grey figure who used Melisandre as a "every little bit helps" tool. Melisandre was also a lot more complicated, the show hasn't even touched on her personal doubts or the lore behind her religion.
Varys telling Tyrion they are going to Dany is out of character since he is going with him
Like
No point to keep up any sort of charade
Well, that's one of the biggest changes they've made from the books, but even with the new development of him going on a boat with Tyrion rather than staying in KL, I don't think he'd dump all of his plans onto Tyrion like that. He would spin up some other story to get him on board. His distrust in the Lannisters, even Tyrion, is one of his major character traits.
Varys telling Tyrion they are going to Dany is out of character since he is going with him
Like
No point to keep up any sort of charade
Well, that's one of the biggest changes they've made from the books, but even with the new development of him going on a boat with Tyrion rather than staying in KL, I don't think he'd dump all of his plans onto Tyrion like that. He would spin up some other story to get him on board. His distrust in the Lannisters, even Tyrion, is one of his major character traits.
But
Him going with Tyrion means he isn't dumping all of his plans on Tyrion
He's going with him and will probably remain involved since he's no longer welcome at King's Landing, if he just pointed Tyrion at Dany and said GO he'd be dumping all of his plans on Tyrion's shoulders
Varys telling Tyrion they are going to Dany is out of character since he is going with him
Like
No point to keep up any sort of charade
Well, that's one of the biggest changes they've made from the books, but even with the new development of him going on a boat with Tyrion rather than staying in KL, I don't think he'd dump all of his plans onto Tyrion like that. He would spin up some other story to get him on board. His distrust in the Lannisters, even Tyrion, is one of his major character traits.
But
Him going with Tyrion means he isn't dumping all of his plans on Tyrion
He's going with him and will probably remain involved since he's no longer welcome at King's Landing, if he just pointed Tyrion at Dany and said GO he'd be dumping all of his plans on Tyrion's shoulders
I meant dumping exposition, like he's trusting Tyrion with his true motives after all this time. If Tyrion tells anyone "Hey, Varys is working for Dany", he'd be fucked.
A lot of it comes down to the fact that if half the characters behaved like they did in the books, there would be no dialogue or dialogue that means very little, because while keeping everything close to the chest is fun in a book where you have access to characters minds, it would translate to nothing much being said ever in the show
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AtomicTofuShe's a straight-up supervillain, yoRegistered Userregular
As a book reader, I've only read up to the third book
Varys telling Tyrion they are going to Dany is out of character since he is going with him
Like
No point to keep up any sort of charade
Well, that's one of the biggest changes they've made from the books, but even with the new development of him going on a boat with Tyrion rather than staying in KL, I don't think he'd dump all of his plans onto Tyrion like that. He would spin up some other story to get him on board. His distrust in the Lannisters, even Tyrion, is one of his major character traits.
But
Him going with Tyrion means he isn't dumping all of his plans on Tyrion
He's going with him and will probably remain involved since he's no longer welcome at King's Landing, if he just pointed Tyrion at Dany and said GO he'd be dumping all of his plans on Tyrion's shoulders
I meant dumping exposition, like he's trusting Tyrion with his true motives after all this time. If Tyrion tells anyone "Hey, Varys is working for Dany", he'd be fucked.
Show Varys isn't working for Dany though or at least doesn't appear to be
He's keeping tabs on her and maybe assisting her unseen but he doesn't seem to be actively working for her and helping her outside of maybe sending Barristan her way
Varys telling Tyrion they are going to Dany is out of character since he is going with him
Like
No point to keep up any sort of charade
Well, that's one of the biggest changes they've made from the books, but even with the new development of him going on a boat with Tyrion rather than staying in KL, I don't think he'd dump all of his plans onto Tyrion like that. He would spin up some other story to get him on board. His distrust in the Lannisters, even Tyrion, is one of his major character traits.
But
Him going with Tyrion means he isn't dumping all of his plans on Tyrion
He's going with him and will probably remain involved since he's no longer welcome at King's Landing, if he just pointed Tyrion at Dany and said GO he'd be dumping all of his plans on Tyrion's shoulders
I meant dumping exposition, like he's trusting Tyrion with his true motives after all this time. If Tyrion tells anyone "Hey, Varys is working for Dany", he'd be fucked.
Yeah and fucking what person that matters is going to believe anything Tyrion says at this point?
Varys telling Tyrion they are going to Dany is out of character since he is going with him
Like
No point to keep up any sort of charade
Well, that's one of the biggest changes they've made from the books, but even with the new development of him going on a boat with Tyrion rather than staying in KL, I don't think he'd dump all of his plans onto Tyrion like that. He would spin up some other story to get him on board. His distrust in the Lannisters, even Tyrion, is one of his major character traits.
But
Him going with Tyrion means he isn't dumping all of his plans on Tyrion
He's going with him and will probably remain involved since he's no longer welcome at King's Landing, if he just pointed Tyrion at Dany and said GO he'd be dumping all of his plans on Tyrion's shoulders
I meant dumping exposition, like he's trusting Tyrion with his true motives after all this time. If Tyrion tells anyone "Hey, Varys is working for Dany", he'd be fucked.
Yeah and fucking what person that matters is going to believe anything Tyrion says at this point?
Not the point. The information is out there now.
To get more technical, Varys would never even set out to go on a boat ride with Tyrion in the first place. His entire purpose is to manipulate events in Kings Landing. The show at this point is writing characters however Dave and Dan see fit, the only thing tying them to the source material is reaching the same end point.
No, hes still the same character, its just if they did it like they had him in the books, he wouldnt be IN the show. If he was as clever and behind the scenes as he was in the books, youre right he wouldnt travel with him, but then we wouldnt see them together, they woulndt talk, and there would be little to no scenes with him. Same with littlefinger
Prohass on
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Zonugal(He/Him) The Holiday ArmadilloI'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered Userregular
So, I had my Game of Thrones party last night.
And oh my...
I dressed as Joffrey, my roommate dressed as Jon Snow and our younger friend dressed as Khal Drogo.
We had a good number of people over, played king's cup and had a merry time.
Jon Snow was depressed because he wasn't getting laid.
I, the First of His Name, King of the Andals and the First Men, Lord of the Seven Kingdoms, and Protector of the Realm, well I got pretty lit.
But before I was done for the evening Khal Drogo & I got cross-faded with a member of my book club and the mixture didn't agree with the mighty Khal.
He spent a couple hours in the upstairs bathroom laying on the floor, occasionally puking into the toilet and feeling defeated as a result of soiling himself.
Varys telling Tyrion they are going to Dany is out of character since he is going with him
Like
No point to keep up any sort of charade
Well, that's one of the biggest changes they've made from the books, but even with the new development of him going on a boat with Tyrion rather than staying in KL, I don't think he'd dump all of his plans onto Tyrion like that. He would spin up some other story to get him on board. His distrust in the Lannisters, even Tyrion, is one of his major character traits.
But
Him going with Tyrion means he isn't dumping all of his plans on Tyrion
He's going with him and will probably remain involved since he's no longer welcome at King's Landing, if he just pointed Tyrion at Dany and said GO he'd be dumping all of his plans on Tyrion's shoulders
I meant dumping exposition, like he's trusting Tyrion with his true motives after all this time. If Tyrion tells anyone "Hey, Varys is working for Dany", he'd be fucked.
Yeah and fucking what person that matters is going to believe anything Tyrion says at this point?
Not the point. The information is out there now.
To get more technical, Varys would never even set out to go on a boat ride with Tyrion in the first place. His entire purpose is to manipulate events in Kings Landing. The show at this point is writing characters however Dave and Dan see fit, the only thing tying them to the source material is reaching the same end point.
Posts
Me, after thinking about it: Well I guess it's not the end of the world and it does simplify X plotline. I guess it's hard to justify keeping an actor on payroll when they disappear for so long. As long as they don't change this other thing I can live with it.
Inevitably Me, watching a later episode: They changed the other thing! Aaaargh!
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
But him training is the best
Steam
Ciaran Hinds is such a goddamn good actor
Providing they do that, of course
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
Well
Too much breast milk makes a man weak.
Like, 12 year too much.
It was bad. The entire episode was just such a disappointment from a book readers perspective. Varys doesn't talk like that, Tyrion doesn't talk like that, and Stannis only does if you take out like 80% of his amazing lines.
It is.
I want to start using this in situations it makes no sense in.
"As a book reader, this piano is perfectly in tune"
"As a book reader, you make excellent coffee"
"As a book reader, turn down for what"
Varys and Stannis objectively were not. Everyone else, probably, just made a bit more boring.
Witty, sly, cares about the realm more than most, thought Robert was a shit king, likes Tyrion but is aware of his flaws, hides his competence from most people
So he felt pretty in line with the Varys I remember
STEAM!
Re-read the relevant chapters then.
Book spoilers
Stannis doesn't resemble the character he is in the books to any extent. In the show, he's a cartoon villain who lives and dies on Melisandre's every word. In the books, he was a very complicated morally grey figure who used Melisandre as a "every little bit helps" tool. Melisandre was also a lot more complicated, the show hasn't even touched on her personal doubts or the lore behind her religion.
Like
No point to keep up any sort of charade
It's pretty great
Him going with Tyrion means he isn't dumping all of his plans on Tyrion
He's going with him and will probably remain involved since he's no longer welcome at King's Landing, if he just pointed Tyrion at Dany and said GO he'd be dumping all of his plans on Tyrion's shoulders
as a book reader fuck you or whatever
Well I never!
Steam
He's keeping tabs on her and maybe assisting her unseen but he doesn't seem to be actively working for her and helping her outside of maybe sending Barristan her way
So I'm fine with their changes, mostly, and dialogue writing, mostly.
Not the point. The information is out there now.
And oh my...
I dressed as Joffrey, my roommate dressed as Jon Snow and our younger friend dressed as Khal Drogo.
We had a good number of people over, played king's cup and had a merry time.
Jon Snow was depressed because he wasn't getting laid.
I, the First of His Name, King of the Andals and the First Men, Lord of the Seven Kingdoms, and Protector of the Realm, well I got pretty lit.
But before I was done for the evening Khal Drogo & I got cross-faded with a member of my book club and the mixture didn't agree with the mighty Khal.
He spent a couple hours in the upstairs bathroom laying on the floor, occasionally puking into the toilet and feeling defeated as a result of soiling himself.
It was... It was...
Sure makes for interesting television, though!