The Escape Goatincorrigible ruminantthey/themRegistered Userregular
Yeah, I've been seeing Illidans mostly going Marked for Death at 4 which is an interesting shift from Immolate (generally considered one the best talents in his tree) because the meta has just shifted to burst so much. I still generally see First Aid instead of Follow Through because First Aid is real real good, but it's still interesting to see some other stuff going on there.
Marked for Death is still not a great choice, imo. Yes, it gives you a crit, but it resets your autoattacks and you shouldn't be spamming Dive anyway.
Similarly, Follow Through for the same reason, you don't want to spam your abilities as Illidan. Also because First Aid is really really good and you kinda need the survivability.
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
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The Escape Goatincorrigible ruminantthey/themRegistered Userregular
Marked for Death is still not a great choice, imo. Yes, it gives you a crit, but it resets your autoattacks and you shouldn't be spamming Dive anyway.
You're not spamming dive, though. You dive once to engage and once again to chase after they use an escape/get peel. It relies less about ToT to get the damage in like Immolate does and gets your damage in NOW, which is what the burst meta asks for. You're not looking to maximize your DPS over the long run by weaving in dives properly with your autoattacks or whatever, you're just concerned with "okay how much damage can I do within the space of 4 seconds starting from half a screen away from them."
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No-QuarterNothing To FearBut Fear ItselfRegistered Userregular
edited February 2016
Also Regen Master at has a 5% higher winrate than Shadowshield, granted the sampling is 250 games vs 10,000 but I figure it's worth a try.
ed- Also Marked for Death + Follow Through = 140% on the next attack after the dive.
Second Sweep at 16 also has a high winrate. Interesting, yes quite.
I guess in this burst meta (plus his buff) it's just that important to get the kill that staying alive is secondary.
This is exciting! I've basically not done more than give Li-Ming's talents more than a cursory view so it's going to be fun to try out different builds tonight.
I don't understand how teleport build could be successful until very late in the game, but I'm curious to give it a shot!
This is exciting! I've basically not done more than give Li-Ming's talents more than a cursory view so it's going to be fun to try out different builds tonight.
I don't understand how teleport build could be successful until very late in the game, but I'm curious to give it a shot!
Teleport build starts to actually be usable at 13 once you grab Illusionist. Prior to Illusionist, the range is just really, really short. Either way, Teleport is pretty much just used as a finisher at this point. If you can be safe with it, sure, but otherwise save it for kills.
Once you get Diamond Skin you can be aggressive as all hell with your Teleports. Assuming you're not being dumb and Teleporting into the entire enemy team and eating 1000 stuns, go nuts. Diamond Skin makes you virtually unkillable assuming normal circumstances and smart play.
Side note, Teleport build is actually quite proficient at lane clearing. Not like it really matters since Li-Ming has ridiculous siege potential anyway, but Teleport is great for clearing waves. Also, Teleport build is the only build that can clear Zagara creep (Calamity, anyway). Something to keep in mind.
Tried my first Li-Ming game. I went for teleport build since it was largely unaffected by the changes so I figured it'd come out the strongest. I didn't have the highest damage on our team but I only died once and still did plenty of damage. She still feels pretty bonkers to me.
It's BoE. They have Stiches and Vikings and we have Artanis as our tank and the rest is the usual mix you'd expect this week.
We are losing steadily most of the game. Not hard, but just gradual. We lose all keeps, core is down to 73%.
They keep trying to rush the core, especially their Zag and their fucking Play Again Vikings.
It's down to 30% after the big rush but we kill about half of them.
We hold out for 4 more immortals like this. We didn't even have both forts down and even though we were getting the immortals, we couldn't push because we had to keep sending people back in desperate defence and we couldn't afford to wipe by pushing too hard.
The core is at 9 fucking percent for the last like 8 minutes of the game.
The 4th immortal we get as our shaman pushes down the top keep. We push bot and start taking their last keep as they all respawn. The keep goes down, the immortal starts on the core but our Artanis over-extends and we lose 3 people. Me and Zagara flee, and I make it out with like 50 health just teleporting out of disintegrate range in time. We run back to defend. Thankfully, they can't push right away since they have to kill the immortal first.
Their core is now at 40%, ours still at 9% and the lanes are pushing hard on our core since Vikings keep pushing them and we can't really afford to spend time pushing them back and maybe getting ganked.
We get a 5v2 at our core, Zagara manages to catch Stiches and Greymane in a Maw, I blow up the Vikings and survive only because our Raynor respawns at the perfect time and drops Hyperion for that bit of extra damage. We take out Stitches and Greymane and I manage to blow up the last catapults right as the shield drops. We push the core as 5 and win the game at some ridiculous post 30 minute mark with our core having been almost dead for ages now.
This is exciting! I've basically not done more than give Li-Ming's talents more than a cursory view so it's going to be fun to try out different builds tonight.
I don't understand how teleport build could be successful until very late in the game, but I'm curious to give it a shot!
Teleport build starts to actually be usable at 13 once you grab Illusionist. Prior to Illusionist, the range is just really, really short. Either way, Teleport is pretty much just used as a finisher at this point. If you can be safe with it, sure, but otherwise save it for kills.
Once you get Diamond Skin you can be aggressive as all hell with your Teleports. Assuming you're not being dumb and Teleporting into the entire enemy team and eating 1000 stuns, go nuts. Diamond Skin makes you virtually unkillable assuming normal circumstances and smart play.
Side note, Teleport build is actually quite proficient at lane clearing. Not like it really matters since Li-Ming has ridiculous siege potential anyway, but Teleport is great for clearing waves. Also, Teleport build is the only build that can clear Zagara creep (Calamity, anyway). Something to keep in mind.
This is one of the biggest reasons I think Teleport build is the best. There's so many maps where being able to blow up tons of tiny things or face-tank a bit is a big asset and Orb and Magic Missile don't do that very well overall.
Calamity + Diamond Skin really let's you clear minion waves and mercenaries and shrine skeletons and shit like that easily, which is something Li-Ming can often struggle with otherwise.
Also it's way more fun and great for securing kills.
Marked for Death is still not a great choice, imo. Yes, it gives you a crit, but it resets your autoattacks and you shouldn't be spamming Dive anyway.
You're not spamming dive, though. You dive once to engage and once again to chase after they use an escape/get peel. It relies less about ToT to get the damage in like Immolate does and gets your damage in NOW, which is what the burst meta asks for. You're not looking to maximize your DPS over the long run by weaving in dives properly with your autoattacks or whatever, you're just concerned with "okay how much damage can I do within the space of 4 seconds starting from half a screen away from them."
The problem with giving up Immolate is it hurts you alot in every other aspect of the game. Immolate is the reason Illidan and wave-clear and merc really well.
Played a game as Li-Ming post nerfs. Yeah, she's still good, of course she was gonna be. You no longer get free damage from W+Q, but it's fine, Ess was broken. Landing Q isn't particularly difficult anyway, but it's definitely noticeable.
Honestly though? The bigger thing for me was the Astral Presence nerf. Like, you run out of mana now, you actually have to back. That is a good thing. Li-Ming no longer has this ridiculous lane presence, she can no longer just sit in lane forever. I still do think Astral Presence is worth taking, though. It has a different usage, however. Instead of giving you infinite mana and lane sustain, it's now for teamfights. It guarantees that you'll at least always be able to cast something, and I think there's value there. I'm still not really a big fan of her other talents, but Power Hungry actually might be worth looking at now. Might try it out.
Triumvirate reportedly still not worth taking. It apparently doesn't quite always work, either there's a bug there or... yeah, I dunno, something's weird with it though. Which is fine, Dominance is honestly legitimately really good. Li-Ming is now more survivable than ever, because she has both Diamond Skin AND Dominance working in her favor.
She is definitely going to need some more nerfs down the line, but this was a good start.
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
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Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
Haven't had a chance to play today, but glad to hear that the Li-Ming nerf is neither too hot nor too cold.
Played a game as Li-Ming post nerfs. Yeah, she's still good, of course she was gonna be. You no longer get free damage from W+Q, but it's fine, Ess was broken. Landing Q isn't particularly difficult anyway, but it's definitely noticeable.
Honestly though? The bigger thing for me was the Astral Presence nerf. Like, you run out of mana now, you actually have to back. That is a good thing. Li-Ming no longer has this ridiculous lane presence, she can no longer just sit in lane forever. I still do think Astral Presence is worth taking, though. It has a different usage, however. Instead of giving you infinite mana and lane sustain, it's now for teamfights. It guarantees that you'll at least always be able to cast something, and I think there's value there. I'm still not really a big fan of her other talents, but Power Hungry actually might be worth looking at now. Might try it out.
Triumvirate reportedly still not worth taking. It apparently doesn't quite always work, either there's a bug there or... yeah, I dunno, something's weird with it though. Which is fine, Dominance is honestly legitimately really good. Li-Ming is now more survivable than ever, because she has both Diamond Skin AND Dominance working in her favor.
She is definitely going to need some more nerfs down the line, but this was a good start.
Yeah, you definitely feel the mana issues now.
I also gotta agree that I don't find any of the lvl 1 talents all that impressive now. I'm trying out Power Hungry vs Force Armor to see which I like better.
Ess being gone I honestly don't even notice. And Dominance has saved my ass on several occasions, so that's been nice. Probably raised the skill floor but didn't make a huge difference for people who can land magic missiles most of the time except in that you don't get a bullshit interrupt.
Triumvirate I think still works as it always did which means it always feels bugged. The problem afaik is that it does the "65% of it's max range" calculation based off the middle of the orb, not the edge. Which means it feels like the orb moves alot further then it has since the edge hits at a long range but the game says the orb hasn't travelled that far since by that point the orb is huge and the edge is actually moving faster then the centre.
Oh my god, hahaha. I just played a HL match with the most amazing Stitches on my team. Here's the scenario. Teamfight breaking out at the bottom Terror on Garden of Terror. Enemy Falstad Gusts us away, we start a re-engage. Enemy Nazeebo splits us, Enemy Zeratul decides to get in on my ass.
Not amazing but she still felt really good to play and kicked some ass. Actually like taking the magic missiles debuff talent, it kicked in some surprising damage on subsequent hits.
Side note: Note the nice distribution of kills/assists on our team, we had some awesome teamwork going on on the Infernal Shrines map and every fight was pretty much everyone working together.
Delphinidaes on
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...because they took Nexus Frenzy, right? Whittle 'em down, then take the kill shot with BFG once they get out of range and think they're safe? No? It's not what I'd normally choose, but I could see that being pretty satisfying to play.
I took Aether Walker last night and thought it was absolutely fantastic. It kept me alive so much, and since taking shield damage doesn't count as taking damage I was just free teleporting all over the place like a fool. And as a bonus it reduces mana usage so you have less need for astral presence.
I did run out of mana a couple times, but not more often than I would have with any other hero. Yes, one of those times was when there was a team fight going on so AP would have been helpful there, but I don't feel that she's special in that regard. She doesn't have infinite mana, but having never played a version of her that did, I don't feel like there's any issue.
Oh my god, hahaha. I just played a HL match with the most amazing Stitches on my team. Here's the scenario. Teamfight breaking out at the bottom Terror on Garden of Terror. Enemy Falstad Gusts us away, we start a re-engage. Enemy Nazeebo splits us, Enemy Zeratul decides to get in on my ass.
Don't know if it was the real one, but MFPallytime was on the enemy team. As I was trying the spin of friendship, nova ganked my lane and he killed me. There was no more spinning, and he did NOT have a fun game after that.
League of Legends: DingusSquatfurd
B.net: Squatfurd#1814
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Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
Don't know if it was the real one, but MFPallytime was on the enemy team. As I was trying the spin of friendship, nova ganked my lane and he killed me. There was no more spinning, and he did NOT have a fun game after that.
Don't know if it was the real one, but MFPallytime was on the enemy team. As I was trying the spin of friendship, nova ganked my lane and he killed me. There was no more spinning, and he did NOT have a fun game after that.
Ah. I'm not especially familiar with Li-Ming, couldn't place Triumvirate, and misunderstood. I was thinking maybe Arcane Orb's splash wasn't triggering Critical Mass if Triumvirate was chosen.
One of those really frustrating nights where I think I played pretty well, dominated the score charts, and still lost all 4 games. Even more frustratingly I've suffered three or 4 evenings in a row of this and have gone from Rank 31 to 40.
Also today I had a rank 48 on my team. What's up with that, I thought 40 was the lowest.
ALRIGHT FINE I GOT AN AVATAR
Steam: adamjnet
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The Escape Goatincorrigible ruminantthey/themRegistered Userregular
One of those really frustrating nights where I think I played pretty well, dominated the score charts, and still lost all 4 games. Even more frustratingly I've suffered three or 4 evenings in a row of this and have gone from Rank 31 to 40.
Also today I had a rank 48 on my team. What's up with that, I thought 40 was the lowest.
Nah, 50 is the lowest.
Edit: You can't lose ranks below 40 but you can start as low as 50. It's like how in Hearthstone you start at 25 but can't fall past 20.
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Similarly, Follow Through for the same reason, you don't want to spam your abilities as Illidan. Also because First Aid is really really good and you kinda need the survivability.
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
You're not spamming dive, though. You dive once to engage and once again to chase after they use an escape/get peel. It relies less about ToT to get the damage in like Immolate does and gets your damage in NOW, which is what the burst meta asks for. You're not looking to maximize your DPS over the long run by weaving in dives properly with your autoattacks or whatever, you're just concerned with "okay how much damage can I do within the space of 4 seconds starting from half a screen away from them."
ed- Also Marked for Death + Follow Through = 140% on the next attack after the dive.
Second Sweep at 16 also has a high winrate. Interesting, yes quite.
I guess in this burst meta (plus his buff) it's just that important to get the kill that staying alive is secondary.
I don't understand how teleport build could be successful until very late in the game, but I'm curious to give it a shot!
Switch: 6589-6405-3399
Teleport build starts to actually be usable at 13 once you grab Illusionist. Prior to Illusionist, the range is just really, really short. Either way, Teleport is pretty much just used as a finisher at this point. If you can be safe with it, sure, but otherwise save it for kills.
Once you get Diamond Skin you can be aggressive as all hell with your Teleports. Assuming you're not being dumb and Teleporting into the entire enemy team and eating 1000 stuns, go nuts. Diamond Skin makes you virtually unkillable assuming normal circumstances and smart play.
Side note, Teleport build is actually quite proficient at lane clearing. Not like it really matters since Li-Ming has ridiculous siege potential anyway, but Teleport is great for clearing waves. Also, Teleport build is the only build that can clear Zagara creep (Calamity, anyway). Something to keep in mind.
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
Switch: 6589-6405-3399
It's BoE. They have Stiches and Vikings and we have Artanis as our tank and the rest is the usual mix you'd expect this week.
We are losing steadily most of the game. Not hard, but just gradual. We lose all keeps, core is down to 73%.
They keep trying to rush the core, especially their Zag and their fucking Play Again Vikings.
It's down to 30% after the big rush but we kill about half of them.
We hold out for 4 more immortals like this. We didn't even have both forts down and even though we were getting the immortals, we couldn't push because we had to keep sending people back in desperate defence and we couldn't afford to wipe by pushing too hard.
The core is at 9 fucking percent for the last like 8 minutes of the game.
The 4th immortal we get as our shaman pushes down the top keep. We push bot and start taking their last keep as they all respawn. The keep goes down, the immortal starts on the core but our Artanis over-extends and we lose 3 people. Me and Zagara flee, and I make it out with like 50 health just teleporting out of disintegrate range in time. We run back to defend. Thankfully, they can't push right away since they have to kill the immortal first.
Their core is now at 40%, ours still at 9% and the lanes are pushing hard on our core since Vikings keep pushing them and we can't really afford to spend time pushing them back and maybe getting ganked.
We get a 5v2 at our core, Zagara manages to catch Stiches and Greymane in a Maw, I blow up the Vikings and survive only because our Raynor respawns at the perfect time and drops Hyperion for that bit of extra damage. We take out Stitches and Greymane and I manage to blow up the last catapults right as the shield drops. We push the core as 5 and win the game at some ridiculous post 30 minute mark with our core having been almost dead for ages now.
Such a damn great game.
This is one of the biggest reasons I think Teleport build is the best. There's so many maps where being able to blow up tons of tiny things or face-tank a bit is a big asset and Orb and Magic Missile don't do that very well overall.
Calamity + Diamond Skin really let's you clear minion waves and mercenaries and shrine skeletons and shit like that easily, which is something Li-Ming can often struggle with otherwise.
Also it's way more fun and great for securing kills.
The problem with giving up Immolate is it hurts you alot in every other aspect of the game. Immolate is the reason Illidan and wave-clear and merc really well.
Honestly though? The bigger thing for me was the Astral Presence nerf. Like, you run out of mana now, you actually have to back. That is a good thing. Li-Ming no longer has this ridiculous lane presence, she can no longer just sit in lane forever. I still do think Astral Presence is worth taking, though. It has a different usage, however. Instead of giving you infinite mana and lane sustain, it's now for teamfights. It guarantees that you'll at least always be able to cast something, and I think there's value there. I'm still not really a big fan of her other talents, but Power Hungry actually might be worth looking at now. Might try it out.
Triumvirate reportedly still not worth taking. It apparently doesn't quite always work, either there's a bug there or... yeah, I dunno, something's weird with it though. Which is fine, Dominance is honestly legitimately really good. Li-Ming is now more survivable than ever, because she has both Diamond Skin AND Dominance working in her favor.
She is definitely going to need some more nerfs down the line, but this was a good start.
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
Yeah, you definitely feel the mana issues now.
I also gotta agree that I don't find any of the lvl 1 talents all that impressive now. I'm trying out Power Hungry vs Force Armor to see which I like better.
Ess being gone I honestly don't even notice. And Dominance has saved my ass on several occasions, so that's been nice. Probably raised the skill floor but didn't make a huge difference for people who can land magic missiles most of the time except in that you don't get a bullshit interrupt.
Triumvirate I think still works as it always did which means it always feels bugged. The problem afaik is that it does the "65% of it's max range" calculation based off the middle of the orb, not the edge. Which means it feels like the orb moves alot further then it has since the edge hits at a long range but the game says the orb hasn't travelled that far since by that point the orb is huge and the edge is actually moving faster then the centre.
You Won't Believe What Happens Next!!!11
gfycat.com/CraftyUnluckyIlladopsis
Our Stitches is a god, basically. FROM DOWNTOWNNNN.
Also yes I discovered how to very easily record gifs from my replays and I have SO MANY PLANS. And for funsies, here's the scoreboard:
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
Not amazing but she still felt really good to play and kicked some ass. Actually like taking the magic missiles debuff talent, it kicked in some surprising damage on subsequent hits.
Side note: Note the nice distribution of kills/assists on our team, we had some awesome teamwork going on on the Infernal Shrines map and every fight was pretty much everyone working together.
Official PA Forums FFXIV:ARR Free Company <GHOST> gitl.enjin.com Join us on Sargatanas!
...because they took Nexus Frenzy, right? Whittle 'em down, then take the kill shot with BFG once they get out of range and think they're safe? No? It's not what I'd normally choose, but I could see that being pretty satisfying to play.
I did run out of mana a couple times, but not more often than I would have with any other hero. Yes, one of those times was when there was a team fight going on so AP would have been helpful there, but I don't feel that she's special in that regard. She doesn't have infinite mana, but having never played a version of her that did, I don't feel like there's any issue.
Switch: 6589-6405-3399
Sometimes people with the master Stitches skin have gotten good with the hook.
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3DS: 3454-0268-5595 Battle.net: SteelAngel#1772
Hook'm eat them and puke them up before the guns for a laugh
Oh, welp. Triumvirate interaction apparently confirmed as a bug, will get fixed. Neato.
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
It was pretty infuriating.
Multiple times where it'd save my ass but nope. Had to slam it 2-3 times for it to register.
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
Time for some Li Ming!
Steam: adamjnet
B.net: Squatfurd#1814
Pretty sure this guy: http://www.hotslogs.com/Player/MatchHistory?PlayerID=162043
Is the "real" MFPallyTime, given the sheer number of games played. If you check his match history and you show up, then it was him.
Yeah, Hengest is in most of his Hero League games. Unless the fake has a buddy with a Hengest account that seems legit.
B.net: Squatfurd#1814
https://www.reddit.com/r/heroesofthestorm/comments/46gcvb/hots_logs_liming_nerf_patch_day_1_win_rates/
Switch: 6589-6405-3399
Apparently 5 supports has become pretty amazing???
Switch: 6589-6405-3399
Oh man, I saw a similar thread the other day about Kael'thas...
-10%, oh nooooooo
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
Cooldown reduction?
Steam: TimIsOnSteam
Battle.net: TimIsOnBnet#1745
Switch: SW-7012-4788-7410
PSN: TimIsOnTheNet
(Pretty sure the supports would win. Specialists FTL.)
It's not 5 supports, it's 4 supports and the best melee assassin in the game.
also holy lol stim drone on Kharazim with his E up.
That's the talent where if the orb hits a hero, it shaves off like 6 or 7 seconds on the cooldown
Cooldown reduction.
Steam: TimIsOnSteam
Battle.net: TimIsOnBnet#1745
Switch: SW-7012-4788-7410
PSN: TimIsOnTheNet
Also today I had a rank 48 on my team. What's up with that, I thought 40 was the lowest.
Steam: adamjnet
Nah, 50 is the lowest.
Edit: You can't lose ranks below 40 but you can start as low as 50. It's like how in Hearthstone you start at 25 but can't fall past 20.
That's because Xul isn't out yet. Otherwise, specialists would win. Because necromancer.
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Bnet: Pudgestomp#11153