Nintendo going third party might be one of those "be careful what you wish for" situations. The kind of cartoony, whimsical games that make up a big chunk of Nintendo's catalog make up only a tiny percentage of PS4 and Xbox One games. For the most part, those systems aren't for the whole family anymore. There's no guarantee that there's an audience for Nintendo there, as most of what sells are the big, comfortable AAA online epics. True, indies are a lot quirkier and could fit Nintendo's style, but the economics are MUCH smaller than what Nintendo needs to remain at its current size.
Which leaves -- smartphones. And sure, Pokemon Go is a monster success, and Super Mario Run has a lot of hype among normals. The games would certainly be fun, but they'd also have to be different to fit the format. In this case, we'd be left with a very different Nintendo.
I know we're getting into the area of anecdotal evidence and speculation, but out of all the Nintendo console owners I've spoken to, online and offline, the majority of them have it in addition to at least one other gaming platform. Hell, these people would probably just buy a few more games if they didn't have to buy two consoles anymore.
But ultimately, I think the hybrid console would side-step the whole "should they go third party?" issue entirely. There's never been any question regarding Nintendo's dominance in the handheld space. This would allow them to essentially "leave" the console race and focus on the handheld, while still satisfying people who still want the Nintendo console experience at home.
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AxenMy avatar is Excalibur.Yes, the sword.Registered Userregular
I just don't understand these weird alternate realities where Nintendo fans would refuse to buy PlayStations or XBoxes if Nintendo games moved there, and existing PS/XB users would refuse to buy Mario because it's not enough like Call of Duty. I understand not wanting them to go third party, and I don't see them doing it either, but the leaps in logic people take to explain why it shouldn't happen just baffle me at times.
Nintendo going third party might be one of those "be careful what you wish for" situations. The kind of cartoony, whimsical games that make up a big chunk of Nintendo's catalog make up only a tiny percentage of PS4 and Xbox One games. For the most part, those systems aren't for the whole family anymore. There's no guarantee that there's an audience for Nintendo there, as most of what sells are the big, comfortable AAA online epics. True, indies are a lot quirkier and could fit Nintendo's style, but the economics are MUCH smaller than what Nintendo needs to remain at its current size.
Which leaves -- smartphones. And sure, Pokemon Go is a monster success, and Super Mario Run has a lot of hype among normals. The games would certainly be fun, but they'd also have to be different to fit the format. In this case, we'd be left with a very different Nintendo.
I know we're getting into the area of anecdotal evidence and speculation, but out of all the Nintendo console owners I've spoken to, online and offline, the majority of them have it in addition to at least one other gaming platform. Hell, these people would probably just buy a few more games if they didn't have to buy two consoles anymore.
But ultimately, I think the hybrid console would side-step the whole "should they go third party?" issue entirely. There's never been any question regarding Nintendo's dominance in the handheld space. This would allow them to essentially "leave" the console race and focus on the handheld, while still satisfying people who still want the Nintendo console experience at home.
I just hope there's still a big enough handheld market when it gets there, considering total sales have shrunk by half this gen.
And as far as why they wouldn't buy PlayStations or Xboxes, I don't think would be a form of protest, because, well, they didn't really buy the Wii U either. And half the audience vanished from DS to 3DS. They just stopped appealing to fans for whatever reason, and they stopped being platform-purchasing fans.
Markets are quirkly like that, and it remains to be seen what new form it would take that could really bring old Nintendo fans back.
There's some kind of investor's meeting or earnings thing on the 26th which is the next popular moved goalpost for projected deadline for an announcement
I know there's been something of an attempt to have a "one console future" before with the 3D0, which as I recall basically had a standard set of hardware that was licensed to different companies like Panasonic and Sanyo to release their own versions of.
Still, looking for someone to shed some light on this. I don't have to buy certain TVs to watch certain shows, or certain DVD/Blu-ray players to watch said medium, and generally speaking (and specs permitting), buying a game or program for an IBM or an HP or whatever computer can generally work across them all, since most run Windows.
So what would be the problem with, say, a single hardware standard that everyone developed for, games compatible across the board, with each manufacturer perhaps adding their own personal bells and whistles (controllers for one instance, maybe Xbox Live versus PSN for another)?
I know the 3D0 thing didn't work out, though if memory serves, that came down more to those producing the hardware having to eat more of the costs and thus running up the price quite a bit.
Supposing there was a way around that somehow, though, what would be the real problem with having everyone basically develop for a new hardware standard?
I guess one might argue that it would reduce the need to release new hardware going forward -- it's been said that were it not for the Genesis, Nintendo would have ridden the NES wave a while longer -- but we seem to be moving away from that sort of thing anyway.
I've seen people argue that the idea of a one console future sucks here, and since I haven't had much time to really piece together all the possible reasons for myself, I thought it might serve for a good bit of discussion about the technical or even just personal reasons people don't think it could or want it to work.
Like Mega Man Legends? Then check out my story, Legends of the Halcyon Era - An Adventure in the World of Mega Man Legends on TMMN and AO3!
I know there's been something of an attempt to have a "one console future" before with the 3D0, which as I recall basically had a standard set of hardware that was licensed to different companies like Panasonic and Sanyo to release their own versions of.
Still, looking for someone to shed some light on this. I don't have to buy certain TVs to watch certain shows, or certain DVD/Blu-ray players to watch said medium, and generally speaking (and specs permitting), buying a game or program for an IBM or an HP or whatever computer can generally work across them all, since most run Windows.
So what would be the problem with, say, a single hardware standard that everyone developed for, games compatible across the board, with each manufacturer perhaps adding their own personal bells and whistles (controllers for one instance, maybe Xbox Live versus PSN for another)?
I know the 3D0 thing didn't work out, though if memory serves, that came down more to those producing the hardware having to eat more of the costs and thus running up the price quite a bit.
Supposing there was a way around that somehow, though, what would be the real problem with having everyone basically develop for a new hardware standard?
I guess one might argue that it would reduce the need to release new hardware going forward -- it's been said that were it not for the Genesis, Nintendo would have ridden the NES wave a while longer -- but we seem to be moving away from that sort of thing anyway.
I've seen people argue that the idea of a one console future sucks here, and since I haven't had much time to really piece together all the possible reasons for myself, I thought it might serve for a good bit of discussion about the technical or even just personal reasons people don't think it could or want it to work.
For the customer? No problem in theory.
For the company? They wouldn't be able to charge licensing fees for the right to publish on their platform. I mean, they could try, but with numerous companies involved it could get cost-prohibitive for developers (and costs are a massive problem as it is), or companies would rush to undercut each other and then no one gets that particular pie.
The various manufacturers would have to come together and form a single consortium to make things work like DVD or Blu-ray, but I'm sure Sony and Microsoft would fight that tooth and nail (again, licensing fee pie), and they're 900-pound gorillas.
Plus the whole Steam Machine thing went nowhere, though to be fair to your original assertion those things had like 47,000 hardware standards (which may have been the true problem).
Honestly, if Nintendo left the hardware biz, I'd be sad. Their consoles approach things in a really fun way- Streetpass is just really clever and fun and totally transforms how I play my 3DS for the better. Yes, they're lacking in what are often pretty important features, but it's always handled with such charm that I can't help but enjoy it, and they are making progress, even if they're perpetually a half-step behind. But the games would still be good and I would still be a fan.
The REAL loss? Nintendo controllers. I know some people salivate at the prospect of playing Zelda on a dualshock, but for what my money is worth, Nintendo consistently delivers in the controller department. Yes, I even like Wiimote + Nunchuck, as weird and limited as it was, because it gave pointer / gyro / hand freedom. If they were putting their games on PC but made "3rd party" controllers still I'd be very satisfied.
I've tried playing Twilight Princess using a PlayStation 2 controller (I have an adapter for Classic Controller, PS1/2, and N64 ports), and it feels so wrong.
Honestly, if Nintendo left the hardware biz, I'd be sad. Their consoles approach things in a really fun way- Streetpass is just really clever and fun and totally transforms how I play my 3DS for the better. Yes, they're lacking in what are often pretty important features, but it's always handled with such charm that I can't help but enjoy it, and they are making progress, even if they're perpetually a half-step behind. But the games would still be good and I would still be a fan.
The REAL loss? Nintendo controllers. I know some people salivate at the prospect of playing Zelda on a dualshock, but for what my money is worth, Nintendo consistently delivers in the controller department. Yes, I even like Wiimote + Nunchuck, as weird and limited as it was, because it gave pointer / gyro / hand freedom. If they were putting their games on PC but made "3rd party" controllers still I'd be very satisfied.
I've tried playing Twilight Princess using a PlayStation 2 controller (I have an adapter for Classic Controller, PS1/2, and N64 ports), and it feels so wrong.
Not to mention what Nintendo dropping handhelds would do to handheld gaming controls. Entire genres of games might die.
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CokomonOur butts are worth fighting for!Registered Userregular
There's some kind of investor's meeting or earnings thing on the 26th which is the next popular moved goalpost for projected deadline for an announcement
Investors: "So any new details you guys have on the NX, or anything else you have planned for the next year outside of mobile?"
Kimishima: "Uh, look over there." *Throws a smoke grenade and ducks out of the room*
The proposed hybrid console concept gives Nintendo three distinct advantages.
#1 The Library: This is the big one. If there's anything observing the industry has taught us time and time again, it's that gamers go where the games are. Combining their home and handheld libraries would allow Nintendo to effectively double their output of first party exclusives, allowing their machine to have an attractive array of games, even without third party support.
#2 Cheaper Development Costs: Even if the docking station contains a secondary graphics processor (which seems likely, because otherwise why even have a docking station), no one would expect a hybrid console to run games at the same level as the Pro or Scorpio. That may seem like an argument against a hybrid, but it might actually be a blessing. As we all know, modern AAA PC games have ballooned in production cost, so much so that even a single failed product can put a developer in serious financial danger. This is less of a problem for Nintendo, because they make most of their profit from hardware sales anyway, but if each investment is less of a risk, then the odds of meeting their projected goals every quarter increase significantly.
#3 Lack of Competition: This one is much more of a gamble than the other two. Nintendo is banking on the theory that there is a hidden untapped market for games that occupy a space between mobile gaming and PC gaming (a category that includes Sony and Microsoft's consoles, since they're essentially specialized PCs in terms of hardware). They believe that if they can tap into this market, they can own it completely, without needing to aggressively compete with either of the above mentioned existing markets. This is a dangerous assumption, because it requires predicting how consumers will react. Instead of not competing with either, they could end up competing with both. If mobile device owners are turned off by the dedicated nature of the device and PC owners are turned off by the compromises necessary to make it function as a portable, then their hybrid console will have no audience except the ever shrinking pool of people who already buy Nintendo handhelds.
At the minimum, I think the hybrid approach could at least give people more choices about how they play games that fit around their lifestyle better. I mean, there's so many games I'd love to continue playing on the go on my lunch breaks at work. Having the option to do so would probably mean I play more console games, and so buy more. Might take a little bit more developer work, but I think being able to transition between the two would totally be worth it.
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
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CokomonOur butts are worth fighting for!Registered Userregular
edited October 2016
The hybrid approach should hopefully help broaden the variety of titles released, so we're not getting duplicate versions of all Nintendo's flagship titles. No more double NSMB or Mario Kart or Smash Bros releases spread between console and handheld. Just one game for the hybrid, with teams allowed to do other things. Hopefully either new series or new entries in series that have been dormant.
The hybrid approach should hopefully help broaden the variety of titles released, so we're not getting duplicate versions of all Nintendo's flagship titles. No more double NSMB or Mario Kart or Smash Bros releases spread between console and handheld. Just one game for the hybrid, with teams allowed to do other things. Hopefully either new series or new entries in series that have been dormant.
The hybrid approach should hopefully help broaden the variety of titles released, so we're not getting duplicate versions of all Nintendo's flagship titles. No more double NSMB or Mario Kart or Smash Bros releases spread between console and handheld. Just one game for the hybrid, with teams allowed to do other things. Hopefully either new series or new entries in series that have been dormant.
Metroid, F-Zero, Wars, etc...
Or the next big hit, like Splatoon or Animal Crossing, or cult classic, like Pikmin.
That is kinda crazy. Dev tools not available until at least January for hardware suppose to be released 2 months later? What kind of crap games other than first party are going to be available less than a year out. It's going to have the same damn problem the previous Nintendo consoles had...no friggin games to play on it for 8-12 months after release except the launch titles.
That says for smaller developers. You're big third parties (Ubisoft, EA, etc) will already have them. I guess it just means fewer indie titles at first.
Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
It doesn't even state a full reveal soon. It just says "some details"
They will state that its a console, and it plays games.
In all seriousness though, they say there will be four launch titles and I seem to remember something about roughly 4 Wii U games being ported over (well, 3 games and the new Zelda being on both). Do you think those would be the launch titles? Because umm wow, that would be somewhat interesting.
That says for smaller developers. You're big third parties (Ubisoft, EA, etc) will already have them. I guess it just means fewer indie titles at first.
Which is a little disappointing because Wii U actually got some pretty decent indie love (more than the Xbox One, at any rate). But I'm guessing Nintendo's worried about their big secret leaking out.
That firm is saying the reveal is next week and I want to believe, but it's a long shot.
It's possible the firms know something we don't, since they're privy to all kinds of info we mere mortals don't get to see.
Or maybe the guy saw something posted on earlsnintendogab.com and ran with it. Who knows.
I dunno, if they had any insider knowledge you'd think they would know Mario Run is coming to Android, as Nintendo kind of officially said that and stuff....
The NX is actually 3 WiiUs duct-taped together. The final name is the Nintendo Triforce. Launch games include Metroid: Another M and Animal Crossing: amiibo Festival 2. BOTW delayed until 2018.
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Dark Raven XLaugh hard, run fast,be kindRegistered Userregular
3 Wii Us in a trenchcoat, the NX will be a business console for grown ups
3 Wii Us in a trenchcoat, the NX will be a business console for grown ups
Bojack reference?
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dipuc4life... In my own HeadRegistered Userregular
So ... if the Wii was two duct tape Gamecubes ... and the Wii U was two (or was it three) duct taped Wiis then according to math the NX is Texa$ ( o _ 0 ). Either that or it's 12 GameCubes ... Doomed Confirmed? Flawless maths.
I mean, if I were trying to justify that price point to someone, the line would be "It's more expensive than the usual Nintendo console, but it replaces both your WiiU and your 3DS".
All things assumed, y'know.
My favorite musical instrument is the air-raid siren.
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CokomonOur butts are worth fighting for!Registered Userregular
So ... if the Wii was two duct tape Gamecubes ... and the Wii U was two (or was it three) duct taped Wiis then according to math the NX is Texa$ ( o _ 0 ). Either that or it's 12 GameCubes ... Doomed Confirmed? Flawless maths.
Posts
I know we're getting into the area of anecdotal evidence and speculation, but out of all the Nintendo console owners I've spoken to, online and offline, the majority of them have it in addition to at least one other gaming platform. Hell, these people would probably just buy a few more games if they didn't have to buy two consoles anymore.
But ultimately, I think the hybrid console would side-step the whole "should they go third party?" issue entirely. There's never been any question regarding Nintendo's dominance in the handheld space. This would allow them to essentially "leave" the console race and focus on the handheld, while still satisfying people who still want the Nintendo console experience at home.
Oh yeah agreed on both points.
My friends and I all have either a PS4/Xbone and also a Wii U.
Only one of us actually had both a PS4 and Xbone along with a Wii U.
I just hope there's still a big enough handheld market when it gets there, considering total sales have shrunk by half this gen.
And as far as why they wouldn't buy PlayStations or Xboxes, I don't think would be a form of protest, because, well, they didn't really buy the Wii U either. And half the audience vanished from DS to 3DS. They just stopped appealing to fans for whatever reason, and they stopped being platform-purchasing fans.
Markets are quirkly like that, and it remains to be seen what new form it would take that could really bring old Nintendo fans back.
3DS: 0447-9966-6178
You can't?
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
Switch ID: MNC Dover SW-1154-3107-1051
Steam ID
Twitch Page
Still, looking for someone to shed some light on this. I don't have to buy certain TVs to watch certain shows, or certain DVD/Blu-ray players to watch said medium, and generally speaking (and specs permitting), buying a game or program for an IBM or an HP or whatever computer can generally work across them all, since most run Windows.
So what would be the problem with, say, a single hardware standard that everyone developed for, games compatible across the board, with each manufacturer perhaps adding their own personal bells and whistles (controllers for one instance, maybe Xbox Live versus PSN for another)?
I know the 3D0 thing didn't work out, though if memory serves, that came down more to those producing the hardware having to eat more of the costs and thus running up the price quite a bit.
Supposing there was a way around that somehow, though, what would be the real problem with having everyone basically develop for a new hardware standard?
I guess one might argue that it would reduce the need to release new hardware going forward -- it's been said that were it not for the Genesis, Nintendo would have ridden the NES wave a while longer -- but we seem to be moving away from that sort of thing anyway.
I've seen people argue that the idea of a one console future sucks here, and since I haven't had much time to really piece together all the possible reasons for myself, I thought it might serve for a good bit of discussion about the technical or even just personal reasons people don't think it could or want it to work.
Like Mega Man Legends? Then check out my story, Legends of the Halcyon Era - An Adventure in the World of Mega Man Legends on TMMN and AO3!
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
Switch ID: MNC Dover SW-1154-3107-1051
Steam ID
Twitch Page
For the customer? No problem in theory.
For the company? They wouldn't be able to charge licensing fees for the right to publish on their platform. I mean, they could try, but with numerous companies involved it could get cost-prohibitive for developers (and costs are a massive problem as it is), or companies would rush to undercut each other and then no one gets that particular pie.
The various manufacturers would have to come together and form a single consortium to make things work like DVD or Blu-ray, but I'm sure Sony and Microsoft would fight that tooth and nail (again, licensing fee pie), and they're 900-pound gorillas.
Plus the whole Steam Machine thing went nowhere, though to be fair to your original assertion those things had like 47,000 hardware standards (which may have been the true problem).
I've tried playing Twilight Princess using a PlayStation 2 controller (I have an adapter for Classic Controller, PS1/2, and N64 ports), and it feels so wrong.
Not to mention what Nintendo dropping handhelds would do to handheld gaming controls. Entire genres of games might die.
Investors: "So any new details you guys have on the NX, or anything else you have planned for the next year outside of mobile?"
Kimishima: "Uh, look over there." *Throws a smoke grenade and ducks out of the room*
Twitter: Cokomon | dA: Cokomon | Tumblr: Cokomon-art | XBL / NNID / Steam: Cokomon
#1 The Library: This is the big one. If there's anything observing the industry has taught us time and time again, it's that gamers go where the games are. Combining their home and handheld libraries would allow Nintendo to effectively double their output of first party exclusives, allowing their machine to have an attractive array of games, even without third party support.
#2 Cheaper Development Costs: Even if the docking station contains a secondary graphics processor (which seems likely, because otherwise why even have a docking station), no one would expect a hybrid console to run games at the same level as the Pro or Scorpio. That may seem like an argument against a hybrid, but it might actually be a blessing. As we all know, modern AAA PC games have ballooned in production cost, so much so that even a single failed product can put a developer in serious financial danger. This is less of a problem for Nintendo, because they make most of their profit from hardware sales anyway, but if each investment is less of a risk, then the odds of meeting their projected goals every quarter increase significantly.
#3 Lack of Competition: This one is much more of a gamble than the other two. Nintendo is banking on the theory that there is a hidden untapped market for games that occupy a space between mobile gaming and PC gaming (a category that includes Sony and Microsoft's consoles, since they're essentially specialized PCs in terms of hardware). They believe that if they can tap into this market, they can own it completely, without needing to aggressively compete with either of the above mentioned existing markets. This is a dangerous assumption, because it requires predicting how consumers will react. Instead of not competing with either, they could end up competing with both. If mobile device owners are turned off by the dedicated nature of the device and PC owners are turned off by the compromises necessary to make it function as a portable, then their hybrid console will have no audience except the ever shrinking pool of people who already buy Nintendo handhelds.
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
Twitter: Cokomon | dA: Cokomon | Tumblr: Cokomon-art | XBL / NNID / Steam: Cokomon
Metroid, F-Zero, Wars, etc...
3DS: 0473-8507-2652
Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
PSN: AbEntropy
Or the next big hit, like Splatoon or Animal Crossing, or cult classic, like Pikmin.
Twitter: Cokomon | dA: Cokomon | Tumblr: Cokomon-art | XBL / NNID / Steam: Cokomon
That is kinda crazy. Dev tools not available until at least January for hardware suppose to be released 2 months later? What kind of crap games other than first party are going to be available less than a year out. It's going to have the same damn problem the previous Nintendo consoles had...no friggin games to play on it for 8-12 months after release except the launch titles.
PSN: SirGrinchX
Oculus Rift: Sir_Grinch
They will state that its a console, and it plays games.
In all seriousness though, they say there will be four launch titles and I seem to remember something about roughly 4 Wii U games being ported over (well, 3 games and the new Zelda being on both). Do you think those would be the launch titles? Because umm wow, that would be somewhat interesting.
Which is a little disappointing because Wii U actually got some pretty decent indie love (more than the Xbox One, at any rate). But I'm guessing Nintendo's worried about their big secret leaking out.
I'm not going to put much weight in that picture/article.
That's the part I want to believe though
It's possible the firms know something we don't, since they're privy to all kinds of info we mere mortals don't get to see.
Or maybe the guy saw something posted on earlsnintendogab.com and ran with it. Who knows.
I dunno, if they had any insider knowledge you'd think they would know Mario Run is coming to Android, as Nintendo kind of officially said that and stuff....
Bojack reference?
Playstation: Dipuc4Life
Warframe_Switch IGN: ONVEBAL
Xbone S is $300, no? Part of the appeal to a 'weaker' Nintendo console is that it comes in cheaper than the competition, like a trade off.
Is silly, but I'd be lying if it didn't factor into my decision to get a Wii U on top of a PS4...
All things assumed, y'know.
Let's see here: 16 bit, 32 bit, 64 bit, 128 bit...
*Counts on fingers*
We're gonna be in the 1024 bit generation!! ZOMG!!!
Twitter: Cokomon | dA: Cokomon | Tumblr: Cokomon-art | XBL / NNID / Steam: Cokomon