Man, taking swipes at blatant China-appeasing is starting to get super old
I get it: element of film is there only because funding from China
At least it's a movie being nice to brown folks? Instead of doing that thing that Hollywood has always done, which is basically the opposite of being nice to brown folks
Also, some of the people mentioning it every time are starting to sound really racist
Uh no. It's not "being nice to brown folks". It's the continued need to bend small parts of the story around requirements that representatives of the PRC be there and always be good and right and never makes mistakes ever.
Imagine if every single movie had to portray the US government as competent, trustworthy and never wrong or corrupt in any way.
It's basically the new Hayes Code.
Strongly disagree.
"A new take on the epic fantasy genre... Darkly comic, relatable characters... twisted storyline."
"Readers who prefer tension and romance, Maledictions: The Offering, delivers... As serious YA fiction, I’ll give it five stars out of five. As a novel? Four and a half." - Liz Ellor My new novel: Maledictions: The Offering. Now in Paperback!
I caught a matinee showing of Independence Day 2: Independence Harder this morning.
Came away pretty entertained (but then, I'm easily amused by bright lights and big explosions), though there were two big problems I had walking out of the movie.
Minor... well "plot" for lack of a better word... spoilers:
First: they introduced the tugs, with giant arms and heavy engines where just one was able to keep a giant alien gun emplacement from tipping over (granted, that was on the moon, but whatever). In an effort to reassure a panicking passenger, one of these tugs is described as a "space tank".
Later, they introduce a giant alien (think Kaiju sized) that rampages around wrecking shit up left and right.
The problem: The heavily armed tug with giant arms never fights the giant alien.
I don't need a full on Pacific Rim knockdown drag out fight, but it would have been nice during that whole "we've thrown everything we have at it, and it's still coming" bit to have them clock the big alien with a tug or two.
Second: The good alien sphere. I could not help but see Marvin. And when it started talking...
A huge missed opportunity to have it sound maudlin and depressed like Marvin. I mean, it would have even made sense seeing as how the sphere was the last survivor of it's race and was solely responsible for trying to put together a multi species resistance to the Harvester aliens... Good Alien Sphere is the one on the left
It's not just me, is it? There's more than a passing resemblance here?
Sure, I know, there's only so many ways to go when the script calls for an alien sphere, but maybe go for a different color at least?
Sure, there were a whole host of smaller problems to be had here.
But those were the two big ones.
Medium problem that I feel like sharing because it's been eating my brain for the past couple hours:
Are Earth laptops no longer compatible with Harvester tech? Seems like they made a comment at a certain point at how much the alien tech had failed to progress in the last two decades.
Maybe they should have had the fighter pilots armed with malware filled micro PCs instead of fusion bombs...
Man, taking swipes at blatant China-appeasing is starting to get super old
I get it: element of film is there only because funding from China
At least it's a movie being nice to brown folks? Instead of doing that thing that Hollywood has always done, which is basically the opposite of being nice to brown folks
Also, some of the people mentioning it every time are starting to sound really racist
Uh no. It's not "being nice to brown folks". It's the continued need to bend small parts of the story around requirements that representatives of the PRC be there and always be good and right and never makes mistakes ever.
Imagine if every single movie had to portray the US government as competent, trustworthy and never wrong or corrupt in any way.
It's basically the new Hayes Code.
Strongly disagree.
Eh... Transformers and The Martian were pretty oddly paced for a "let's go China!" finale. Definitely seems like making the PRC a benevolent and giving government happens more often than say... showing how they're abducting and torturing people from Hong Kong for owning bookstores.
+4
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AstaerethIn the belly of the beastRegistered Userregular
It's not bad because it's propaganda. It's bad because it mixes poorly with the American propoganda the Chinese pandering is so often shoehorned into.
Man, taking swipes at blatant China-appeasing is starting to get super old
I get it: element of film is there only because funding from China
At least it's a movie being nice to brown folks? Instead of doing that thing that Hollywood has always done, which is basically the opposite of being nice to brown folks
Also, some of the people mentioning it every time are starting to sound really racist
Uh no. It's not "being nice to brown folks". It's the continued need to bend small parts of the story around requirements that representatives of the PRC be there and always be good and right and never makes mistakes ever.
Imagine if every single movie had to portray the US government as competent, trustworthy and never wrong or corrupt in any way.
It's basically the new Hayes Code.
Strongly disagree.
Eh... Transformers and The Martian were pretty oddly paced for a "let's go China!" finale. Definitely seems like making the PRC a benevolent and giving government happens more often than say... showing how they're abducting and torturing people from Hong Kong for owning bookstores.
Uhh, China's role in the book version of The Martian was identical to that in the movie.
Automatically assuming that any Chinese inclusion in a movie is because of PRC demands is a problem.
Man, taking swipes at blatant China-appeasing is starting to get super old
I get it: element of film is there only because funding from China
At least it's a movie being nice to brown folks? Instead of doing that thing that Hollywood has always done, which is basically the opposite of being nice to brown folks
Also, some of the people mentioning it every time are starting to sound really racist
Uh no. It's not "being nice to brown folks". It's the continued need to bend small parts of the story around requirements that representatives of the PRC be there and always be good and right and never makes mistakes ever.
Imagine if every single movie had to portray the US government as competent, trustworthy and never wrong or corrupt in any way.
It's basically the new Hayes Code.
Strongly disagree.
Eh... Transformers and The Martian were pretty oddly paced for a "let's go China!" finale. Definitely seems like making the PRC a benevolent and giving government happens more often than say... showing how they're abducting and torturing people from Hong Kong for owning bookstores.
Uhh, China's role in the book version of The Martian was identical to that in the movie.
Automatically assuming that any Chinese inclusion in a movie is because of PRC demands is a problem.
That's fine. I didn't say it was different from the book or forced in. Just that recent financial changes have made those things perfectly fine to put in a movie, but other things definitely not. I am definitely not a fan of all the China romance that occurs in movies produced in China. I don't really need it in movies made other places too unless there are other narratives that also become okay.
Man, taking swipes at blatant China-appeasing is starting to get super old
I get it: element of film is there only because funding from China
At least it's a movie being nice to brown folks? Instead of doing that thing that Hollywood has always done, which is basically the opposite of being nice to brown folks
Also, some of the people mentioning it every time are starting to sound really racist
Uh no. It's not "being nice to brown folks". It's the continued need to bend small parts of the story around requirements that representatives of the PRC be there and always be good and right and never makes mistakes ever.
Imagine if every single movie had to portray the US government as competent, trustworthy and never wrong or corrupt in any way.
It's basically the new Hayes Code.
Strongly disagree.
Eh... Transformers and The Martian were pretty oddly paced for a "let's go China!" finale. Definitely seems like making the PRC a benevolent and giving government happens more often than say... showing how they're abducting and torturing people from Hong Kong for owning bookstores.
Uhh, China's role in the book version of The Martian was identical to that in the movie.
Automatically assuming that any Chinese inclusion in a movie is because of PRC demands is a problem.
That's fine. I didn't say it was different from the book or forced in. Just that recent financial changes have made those things perfectly fine to put in a movie, but other things definitely not. I am definitely not a fan of all the China romance that occurs in movies produced in China. I don't really need it in movies made other places too unless there are other narratives that also become okay.
I'm not really sure that "[non-US country] is great" is a new addition to cinema. The movies where they exert creative control are certainly something to be worried about, but criticizing a movie for including a (from a US perspective) minority who's an admirable character seems iffy.
And even then the movie can be good. I love Hero, despite it having a very pro-tyranny resolution.
Hero has a pro practicality resolution. The warring kingdoms weren't better than the Qin rule and the post war period was decidedly less violent than the prior.
Man, taking swipes at blatant China-appeasing is starting to get super old
I get it: element of film is there only because funding from China
At least it's a movie being nice to brown folks? Instead of doing that thing that Hollywood has always done, which is basically the opposite of being nice to brown folks
Also, some of the people mentioning it every time are starting to sound really racist
Uh no. It's not "being nice to brown folks". It's the continued need to bend small parts of the story around requirements that representatives of the PRC be there and always be good and right and never makes mistakes ever.
Imagine if every single movie had to portray the US government as competent, trustworthy and never wrong or corrupt in any way.
It's basically the new Hayes Code.
Strongly disagree.
Eh... Transformers and The Martian were pretty oddly paced for a "let's go China!" finale. Definitely seems like making the PRC a benevolent and giving government happens more often than say... showing how they're abducting and torturing people from Hong Kong for owning bookstores.
Uhh, China's role in the book version of The Martian was identical to that in the movie.
Automatically assuming that any Chinese inclusion in a movie is because of PRC demands is a problem.
That's fine. I didn't say it was different from the book or forced in. Just that recent financial changes have made those things perfectly fine to put in a movie, but other things definitely not. I am definitely not a fan of all the China romance that occurs in movies produced in China. I don't really need it in movies made other places too unless there are other narratives that also become okay.
I'm not really sure that "[non-US country] is great" is a new addition to cinema. The movies where they exert creative control are certainly something to be worried about, but criticizing a movie for including a (from a US perspective) minority who's an admirable character seems iffy.
And even then the movie can be good. I love Hero, despite it having a very pro-tyranny resolution.
I mean, it's Cracked so there is that... but it's not necessarily wrong and about as well written as I could manage. Plus I kind of like Cracked when it comes to movie stuff.
It even takes the time to explicitly mention how Chinese audiences don't really want this shit either. Which is important to remember, people like entertainment and escape and it doesn't matter where you're from.
Edit: The bit about Terminator Genisys making more than Fury Road is terrifying.
Man, taking swipes at blatant China-appeasing is starting to get super old
I get it: element of film is there only because funding from China
At least it's a movie being nice to brown folks? Instead of doing that thing that Hollywood has always done, which is basically the opposite of being nice to brown folks
Also, some of the people mentioning it every time are starting to sound really racist
Uh no. It's not "being nice to brown folks". It's the continued need to bend small parts of the story around requirements that representatives of the PRC be there and always be good and right and never makes mistakes ever.
Imagine if every single movie had to portray the US government as competent, trustworthy and never wrong or corrupt in any way.
It's basically the new Hayes Code.
Strongly disagree.
Eh... Transformers and The Martian were pretty oddly paced for a "let's go China!" finale. Definitely seems like making the PRC a benevolent and giving government happens more often than say... showing how they're abducting and torturing people from Hong Kong for owning bookstores.
Uhh, China's role in the book version of The Martian was identical to that in the movie.
Automatically assuming that any Chinese inclusion in a movie is because of PRC demands is a problem.
It was a bit different.
In the book, it was a bit of political horse trading for China, in addition to a goodwill move. Like "Gee, we happen to have exactly what you need. And we will give it to you, out of the goodness of our hears. Just like you, ENTIRELY OUT OF THE GOODNESS OF YOUR HEARTS, will give us a slot on the next Mars mission. Sound good?"
Also, there was a Chinese scientist who was kinda pissed at the deal. Not that he wanted Watney to die or anything, but the engine was going to launch a probe to collect data nobody else had ever gotten, advancing human knowledge. But the government didn't give a shit, because now they got to look like big shots for saving Mark and getting a dude on Mars, and that kinda sucked, from a strictly scientific knowledge prospective! Especially since there was no way in hell the program was getting the funding for another shot.
It wasn't "The Chinese Government is BAD!" or anything, they came off reasonably well in the book. But it was less "Look how nice these guys are!" and more in keeping with everyone else's "Okay, yes. Good. We want to save this guy. But... holy shit we are spending all the money on one man. Geeze."
Man, taking swipes at blatant China-appeasing is starting to get super old
I get it: element of film is there only because funding from China
At least it's a movie being nice to brown folks? Instead of doing that thing that Hollywood has always done, which is basically the opposite of being nice to brown folks
Also, some of the people mentioning it every time are starting to sound really racist
Uh no. It's not "being nice to brown folks". It's the continued need to bend small parts of the story around requirements that representatives of the PRC be there and always be good and right and never makes mistakes ever.
Imagine if every single movie had to portray the US government as competent, trustworthy and never wrong or corrupt in any way.
Yeah, no
It's a forced but kinda refreshing change from foreign governments, especially countries filled with non-white people, being incompetent and evil
And, much like a lot of the stuff I notice The Internet lamenting in movies, it seems to require having a checklist of shit to complain about handy in the cinema
But, hey, if you need to not enjoy movies that you pay to see, shine on!
Uh, except that's not what happens. Governments are portrayed as all sorts of things in movies. Good, bad, corrupt, trustworthy, good intentions, bad. Usually a combination of all these things. But not with the PRC, who must be pandered to for that sweet Chinese-box-office-money.
The idea that it's a "refreshing change" is just ... what movies have you been watching?
But hey, continue being a complete goose about this claiming people "need to not enjoy movies" when they complain about the PRC filling blockbusters into little pieces of propaganda. That's not at all a nonsensical position or needlessly aggressive and accusational towards people just rolling their eyes at the latest bit of pandering. I don't see why you feel the need to accuse other posters of being racists and/or hating everything for no reason.
Well, ok
Literally watched the movie in between my last post and this
If I hadn't been looking for it, I wouldn't have noticed the 'pandering.'
Man, taking swipes at blatant China-appeasing is starting to get super old
I get it: element of film is there only because funding from China
At least it's a movie being nice to brown folks? Instead of doing that thing that Hollywood has always done, which is basically the opposite of being nice to brown folks
Also, some of the people mentioning it every time are starting to sound really racist
Uh no. It's not "being nice to brown folks". It's the continued need to bend small parts of the story around requirements that representatives of the PRC be there and always be good and right and never makes mistakes ever.
Imagine if every single movie had to portray the US government as competent, trustworthy and never wrong or corrupt in any way.
It's basically the new Hayes Code.
Strongly disagree.
Eh... Transformers and The Martian were pretty oddly paced for a "let's go China!" finale. Definitely seems like making the PRC a benevolent and giving government happens more often than say... showing how they're abducting and torturing people from Hong Kong for owning bookstores.
Uhh, China's role in the book version of The Martian was identical to that in the movie.
Automatically assuming that any Chinese inclusion in a movie is because of PRC demands is a problem.
It was a bit different.
In the book, it was a bit of political horse trading for China, in addition to a goodwill move. Like "Gee, we happen to have exactly what you need. And we will give it to you, out of the goodness of our hears. Just like you, ENTIRELY OUT OF THE GOODNESS OF YOUR HEARTS, will give us a slot on the next Mars mission. Sound good?"
Also, there was a Chinese scientist who was kinda pissed at the deal. Not that he wanted Watney to die or anything, but the engine was going to launch a probe to collect data nobody else had ever gotten, advancing human knowledge. But the government didn't give a shit, because now they got to look like big shots for saving Mark and getting a dude on Mars, and that kinda sucked, from a strictly scientific knowledge prospective! Especially since there was no way in hell the program was getting the funding for another shot.
It wasn't "The Chinese Government is BAD!" or anything, they came off reasonably well in the book. But it was less "Look how nice these guys are!" and more in keeping with everyone else's "Okay, yes. Good. We want to save this guy. But... holy shit we are spending all the money on one man. Geeze."
Would you call it a...
deus ex ma-CHINA!?!?!?
GNU Terry Pratchett
PSN: Wstfgl | GamerTag: An Evil Plan | Battle.net: FallenIdle#1970
Hit me up on BoardGameArena! User: Loaded D1
I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
Man, taking swipes at blatant China-appeasing is starting to get super old
I get it: element of film is there only because funding from China
At least it's a movie being nice to brown folks? Instead of doing that thing that Hollywood has always done, which is basically the opposite of being nice to brown folks
Also, some of the people mentioning it every time are starting to sound really racist
Uh no. It's not "being nice to brown folks". It's the continued need to bend small parts of the story around requirements that representatives of the PRC be there and always be good and right and never makes mistakes ever.
Imagine if every single movie had to portray the US government as competent, trustworthy and never wrong or corrupt in any way.
Yeah, no
It's a forced but kinda refreshing change from foreign governments, especially countries filled with non-white people, being incompetent and evil
And, much like a lot of the stuff I notice The Internet lamenting in movies, it seems to require having a checklist of shit to complain about handy in the cinema
But, hey, if you need to not enjoy movies that you pay to see, shine on!
Uh, except that's not what happens. Governments are portrayed as all sorts of things in movies. Good, bad, corrupt, trustworthy, good intentions, bad. Usually a combination of all these things. But not with the PRC, who must be pandered to for that sweet Chinese-box-office-money.
The idea that it's a "refreshing change" is just ... what movies have you been watching?
But hey, continue being a complete goose about this claiming people "need to not enjoy movies" when they complain about the PRC filling blockbusters into little pieces of propaganda. That's not at all a nonsensical position or needlessly aggressive and accusational towards people just rolling their eyes at the latest bit of pandering. I don't see why you feel the need to accuse other posters of being racists and/or hating everything for no reason.
Well, ok
Literally watched the movie in between my last post and this
If I hadn't been looking for it, I wouldn't have noticed the 'pandering.'
Probably because I paid to have a good time
It's okay if you want to keep this conversation going, but you're being really snarky about it.
I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
Man, taking swipes at blatant China-appeasing is starting to get super old
I get it: element of film is there only because funding from China
At least it's a movie being nice to brown folks? Instead of doing that thing that Hollywood has always done, which is basically the opposite of being nice to brown folks
Also, some of the people mentioning it every time are starting to sound really racist
Uh no. It's not "being nice to brown folks". It's the continued need to bend small parts of the story around requirements that representatives of the PRC be there and always be good and right and never makes mistakes ever.
Imagine if every single movie had to portray the US government as competent, trustworthy and never wrong or corrupt in any way.
Yeah, no
It's a forced but kinda refreshing change from foreign governments, especially countries filled with non-white people, being incompetent and evil
And, much like a lot of the stuff I notice The Internet lamenting in movies, it seems to require having a checklist of shit to complain about handy in the cinema
But, hey, if you need to not enjoy movies that you pay to see, shine on!
Uh, except that's not what happens. Governments are portrayed as all sorts of things in movies. Good, bad, corrupt, trustworthy, good intentions, bad. Usually a combination of all these things. But not with the PRC, who must be pandered to for that sweet Chinese-box-office-money.
The idea that it's a "refreshing change" is just ... what movies have you been watching?
But hey, continue being a complete goose about this claiming people "need to not enjoy movies" when they complain about the PRC filling blockbusters into little pieces of propaganda. That's not at all a nonsensical position or needlessly aggressive and accusational towards people just rolling their eyes at the latest bit of pandering. I don't see why you feel the need to accuse other posters of being racists and/or hating everything for no reason.
Well, ok
Literally watched the movie in between my last post and this
If I hadn't been looking for it, I wouldn't have noticed the 'pandering.'
Probably because I paid to have a good time
Wow dude, you just have the shittiest attitude. "Probably because I paid to have a good time"? Fucking please. Like, what ridiculous scenario are you imagining here? That the people you are talking to pay money to have a shitty time? Or maybe you might consider that people are actually being straight with you. And that your continued sniping is goosey as hell.
People aren't watching movies to hate on them when chinese people show up. That's fucking ridiculous and you know it.
Man, taking swipes at blatant China-appeasing is starting to get super old
I get it: element of film is there only because funding from China
At least it's a movie being nice to brown folks? Instead of doing that thing that Hollywood has always done, which is basically the opposite of being nice to brown folks
Also, some of the people mentioning it every time are starting to sound really racist
Uh no. It's not "being nice to brown folks". It's the continued need to bend small parts of the story around requirements that representatives of the PRC be there and always be good and right and never makes mistakes ever.
Imagine if every single movie had to portray the US government as competent, trustworthy and never wrong or corrupt in any way.
Yeah, no
It's a forced but kinda refreshing change from foreign governments, especially countries filled with non-white people, being incompetent and evil
And, much like a lot of the stuff I notice The Internet lamenting in movies, it seems to require having a checklist of shit to complain about handy in the cinema
But, hey, if you need to not enjoy movies that you pay to see, shine on!
Uh, except that's not what happens. Governments are portrayed as all sorts of things in movies. Good, bad, corrupt, trustworthy, good intentions, bad. Usually a combination of all these things. But not with the PRC, who must be pandered to for that sweet Chinese-box-office-money.
The idea that it's a "refreshing change" is just ... what movies have you been watching?
But hey, continue being a complete goose about this claiming people "need to not enjoy movies" when they complain about the PRC filling blockbusters into little pieces of propaganda. That's not at all a nonsensical position or needlessly aggressive and accusational towards people just rolling their eyes at the latest bit of pandering. I don't see why you feel the need to accuse other posters of being racists and/or hating everything for no reason.
Well, ok
Literally watched the movie in between my last post and this
If I hadn't been looking for it, I wouldn't have noticed the 'pandering.'
Probably because I paid to have a good time
I mean, movies taken individually that are produced by Hollywood for a US release right now are trying just hard enough to appeal to audiences to let them release the movie in China. Mostly it's about not making something that will get the movie outright banned from theatrical release. When seen as more than individual movies, there is definitely a pattern. I suspect by the end of this summer it will be a pretty tiresome theme.
Man, taking swipes at blatant China-appeasing is starting to get super old
I get it: element of film is there only because funding from China
At least it's a movie being nice to brown folks? Instead of doing that thing that Hollywood has always done, which is basically the opposite of being nice to brown folks
Also, some of the people mentioning it every time are starting to sound really racist
Uh no. It's not "being nice to brown folks". It's the continued need to bend small parts of the story around requirements that representatives of the PRC be there and always be good and right and never makes mistakes ever.
Imagine if every single movie had to portray the US government as competent, trustworthy and never wrong or corrupt in any way.
Yeah, no
It's a forced but kinda refreshing change from foreign governments, especially countries filled with non-white people, being incompetent and evil
And, much like a lot of the stuff I notice The Internet lamenting in movies, it seems to require having a checklist of shit to complain about handy in the cinema
But, hey, if you need to not enjoy movies that you pay to see, shine on!
Uh, except that's not what happens. Governments are portrayed as all sorts of things in movies. Good, bad, corrupt, trustworthy, good intentions, bad. Usually a combination of all these things. But not with the PRC, who must be pandered to for that sweet Chinese-box-office-money.
The idea that it's a "refreshing change" is just ... what movies have you been watching?
But hey, continue being a complete goose about this claiming people "need to not enjoy movies" when they complain about the PRC filling blockbusters into little pieces of propaganda. That's not at all a nonsensical position or needlessly aggressive and accusational towards people just rolling their eyes at the latest bit of pandering. I don't see why you feel the need to accuse other posters of being racists and/or hating everything for no reason.
Well, ok
Literally watched the movie in between my last post and this
If I hadn't been looking for it, I wouldn't have noticed the 'pandering.'
Probably because I paid to have a good time
Wow dude, you just have the shittiest attitude. "Probably because I paid to have a good time"? Fucking please. Like, what ridiculous scenario are you imagining here? That the people you are talking to pay money to have a shitty time? Or maybe you might consider that people are actually being straight with you. And that your continued sniping is goosey as hell.
People aren't watching movies to hate on them when chinese people show up. That's fucking ridiculous and you know it.
Talk about shitty fuckin' attitudes, Shryke.
"A new take on the epic fantasy genre... Darkly comic, relatable characters... twisted storyline."
"Readers who prefer tension and romance, Maledictions: The Offering, delivers... As serious YA fiction, I’ll give it five stars out of five. As a novel? Four and a half." - Liz Ellor My new novel: Maledictions: The Offering. Now in Paperback!
Man, taking swipes at blatant China-appeasing is starting to get super old
I get it: element of film is there only because funding from China
At least it's a movie being nice to brown folks? Instead of doing that thing that Hollywood has always done, which is basically the opposite of being nice to brown folks
Also, some of the people mentioning it every time are starting to sound really racist
Uh no. It's not "being nice to brown folks". It's the continued need to bend small parts of the story around requirements that representatives of the PRC be there and always be good and right and never makes mistakes ever.
Imagine if every single movie had to portray the US government as competent, trustworthy and never wrong or corrupt in any way.
Yeah, no
It's a forced but kinda refreshing change from foreign governments, especially countries filled with non-white people, being incompetent and evil
And, much like a lot of the stuff I notice The Internet lamenting in movies, it seems to require having a checklist of shit to complain about handy in the cinema
But, hey, if you need to not enjoy movies that you pay to see, shine on!
Uh, except that's not what happens. Governments are portrayed as all sorts of things in movies. Good, bad, corrupt, trustworthy, good intentions, bad. Usually a combination of all these things. But not with the PRC, who must be pandered to for that sweet Chinese-box-office-money.
The idea that it's a "refreshing change" is just ... what movies have you been watching?
But hey, continue being a complete goose about this claiming people "need to not enjoy movies" when they complain about the PRC filling blockbusters into little pieces of propaganda. That's not at all a nonsensical position or needlessly aggressive and accusational towards people just rolling their eyes at the latest bit of pandering. I don't see why you feel the need to accuse other posters of being racists and/or hating everything for no reason.
Well, ok
Literally watched the movie in between my last post and this
If I hadn't been looking for it, I wouldn't have noticed the 'pandering.'
Probably because I paid to have a good time
Wow dude, you just have the shittiest attitude. "Probably because I paid to have a good time"? Fucking please. Like, what ridiculous scenario are you imagining here? That the people you are talking to pay money to have a shitty time? Or maybe you might consider that people are actually being straight with you. And that your continued sniping is goosey as hell.
People aren't watching movies to hate on them when chinese people show up. That's fucking ridiculous and you know it.
The ridiculous scenario is that people are going to Gigantic Stupid Blockbuster Movie and picking at the fact that the movie is trying to be a Bigger Blockbuster by not painting The Other Superpower as Not Evil-As-Fuck, and then that's a negative point
True Story: Independence Day2: Independenter is dumb as hell. It's fun, if you like that sort of thing, but it's not Alien
Female Minority Character being not stupid or evil is... literally a net positive, even though the studio wants to make money in China
The MCU and Movies thread have talked about how it would behoove studios to bring in minority and LGBT audiences for many reasons, including financially
Well, now we're getting non-Kung Fu Chinese characters who live through multiple runtimes. But it's terrible because the studio wants money from The Other Superpower?
Man, taking swipes at blatant China-appeasing is starting to get super old
I get it: element of film is there only because funding from China
At least it's a movie being nice to brown folks? Instead of doing that thing that Hollywood has always done, which is basically the opposite of being nice to brown folks
Also, some of the people mentioning it every time are starting to sound really racist
Uh no. It's not "being nice to brown folks". It's the continued need to bend small parts of the story around requirements that representatives of the PRC be there and always be good and right and never makes mistakes ever.
Imagine if every single movie had to portray the US government as competent, trustworthy and never wrong or corrupt in any way.
It's basically the new Hayes Code.
Strongly disagree.
Eh... Transformers and The Martian were pretty oddly paced for a "let's go China!" finale. Definitely seems like making the PRC a benevolent and giving government happens more often than say... showing how they're abducting and torturing people from Hong Kong for owning bookstores.
Uhh, China's role in the book version of The Martian was identical to that in the movie.
Automatically assuming that any Chinese inclusion in a movie is because of PRC demands is a problem.
That's fine. I didn't say it was different from the book or forced in. Just that recent financial changes have made those things perfectly fine to put in a movie, but other things definitely not. I am definitely not a fan of all the China romance that occurs in movies produced in China. I don't really need it in movies made other places too unless there are other narratives that also become okay.
I'm not really sure that "[non-US country] is great" is a new addition to cinema. The movies where they exert creative control are certainly something to be worried about, but criticizing a movie for including a (from a US perspective) minority who's an admirable character seems iffy.
And even then the movie can be good. I love Hero, despite it having a very pro-tyranny resolution.
To be honest I barely notice it in Hollywood movies. Iron Man 3 had a tiny scene where Stark went to a doctor who happened to be Chinese. The Chinese edition supposedly added something like 5 minutes which was a silly commercial for a drink. Honestly, I was disappointed to hear they changed so little, I wanted to see Marvel doing crazy shit to see how far they'd go, and got nothing interesting. In Transformers it took place in China, I can't recall anything overt and so on. Hollywood's hardly being forced into using forced Chinese actors/characters or warped their stories to fit Chinese propaganda.
I have noticed there's been an uptick of pre-emptive paranoia from Hollywood* and audiences based around what China might be forcing Hollywood to do, but little evidence backs it up.
Just saw Independence Day: China Is Awesome Resurgence
On the China is Awesome part. It's blatant, but not to the point of being unnecessary or annoying. Like, the two Chinese characters are believable where they would still fit in without the need of a 40' Chinese flag.
The problem with the movie is I just don't care about any of the characters. I always saw ID4 as a character driven drama in a sci-fi wrapper. The first one made me care about the characters. I felt for the characters. They showed the humans being human.
This one? Not so much. Vivica A. Fox dies and I don't care. Not Will Smith barely cares. Hillary Clinton's analogue dies and OH HEY LOOK AT THIS 300ft ALIEN QUEEN.
This movie just really didn't make me feel enough to care about anything.
Hero has a pro practicality resolution. The warring kingdoms weren't better than the Qin rule and the post war period was decidedly less violent than the prior.
Tyranny and practicality aren't necessarily mutually exclusive.
Qin Shi Huang was not exactly a swell guy and positive portrayals of him are modern revisionist history pushed by Chinese nationalists.
The level of shameless propaganda in Hero was completely repellent. People wondered why after Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, Hero did poorly.
It's simple and has nothing to do with anti-asian bias: Crouching had a story, plot, and character movements that were well-realized. Hero had thin characterizations and a sparse story stretched over a single theme of "individuals don't matter, only the state". Yeah, cause that's a message that American audiences give a fuck about hearing.
-edit-
Oh I forgot to criticize the plot of Hero, which is understandable considering that it barely has one.
The pandering is obvious in Independence Day 2 because that is one of the three scenes that character gets. I would actually be WAY more into it if she was a Mako Mori-esque hero with a full arc. And there's enough in the movie to do so too. Like, she's surrounded by fanboys AND fangirls when she lands, a storyline about her fame could have been something. Or she could be in competition with Will Smith Jr. for leadership of the squadron. Or anything really. Instead, they go "China is great!" out of nowhere in dialogue and then she's just "pilot #4" for the rest of the movie.
And actually, Independence Day 2 feels far LESS international than the first. The first did a rather good job of showing the armed forces of various nations having their own, heroic stands against the aliens. In 2, since we've united, the fight happens around one base, that happens to be mostly in charge... in America. Staffed mainly by Americans.
There's a decent sidestory about Africa having fought a ground war against the invaders for years after the war ended, which would have been awesome to see. We do not see any of it. China is so "important" that we never see but two Chinese people. The International Council to make decisions is less charismatic than the one from Avengers, which is saying something.
Hero has a pro practicality resolution. The warring kingdoms weren't better than the Qin rule and the post war period was decidedly less violent than the prior.
Tyranny and practicality aren't necessarily mutually exclusive.
Qin Shi Huang was not exactly a swell guy and positive portrayals of him are modern revisionist history pushed by Chinese nationalists.
Hero does not portray Qin as a tyrant but it also does not portray him as swell. The point of the film wasnt that tyrany is OK but that war and/or disunification is worse.
@Regina Fong I don't really care how Hero played with neo-confederates. The war was shitty and never should have been fought but we're still better off that the north won.
The pandering is obvious in Independence Day 2 because that is one of the three scenes that character gets. I would actually be WAY more into it if she was a Mako Mori-esque hero with a full arc. And there's enough in the movie to do so too. Like, she's surrounded by fanboys AND fangirls when she lands, a storyline about her fame could have been something. Or she could be in competition with Will Smith Jr. for leadership of the squadron. Or anything really. Instead, they go "China is great!" out of nowhere in dialogue and then she's just "pilot #4" for the rest of the movie.
And actually, Independence Day 2 feels far LESS international than the first. The first did a rather good job of showing the armed forces of various nations having their own, heroic stands against the aliens. In 2, since we've united, the fight happens around one base, that happens to be mostly in charge... in America. Staffed mainly by Americans.
There's a decent sidestory about Africa having fought a ground war against the invaders for years after the war ended, which would have been awesome to see. We do not see any of it. China is so "important" that we never see but two Chinese people. The International Council to make decisions is less charismatic than the one from Avengers, which is saying something.
"Regina Fong" I don't really care how Hero played with neo-confederates. The war was shitty and never should have been fought but we're still better off that the north won.
lol
wow
You keep having this conversation with yourself, I'll go grab some popcorn.
Man, taking swipes at blatant China-appeasing is starting to get super old
I get it: element of film is there only because funding from China
At least it's a movie being nice to brown folks? Instead of doing that thing that Hollywood has always done, which is basically the opposite of being nice to brown folks
Also, some of the people mentioning it every time are starting to sound really racist
Uh no. It's not "being nice to brown folks". It's the continued need to bend small parts of the story around requirements that representatives of the PRC be there and always be good and right and never makes mistakes ever.
Imagine if every single movie had to portray the US government as competent, trustworthy and never wrong or corrupt in any way.
It's basically the new Hayes Code.
Strongly disagree.
Eh... Transformers and The Martian were pretty oddly paced for a "let's go China!" finale. Definitely seems like making the PRC a benevolent and giving government happens more often than say... showing how they're abducting and torturing people from Hong Kong for owning bookstores.
Do you really think that when Andy Weir wrote the book The Martian he was thinking about the Chinese audience.
Man, taking swipes at blatant China-appeasing is starting to get super old
I get it: element of film is there only because funding from China
At least it's a movie being nice to brown folks? Instead of doing that thing that Hollywood has always done, which is basically the opposite of being nice to brown folks
Also, some of the people mentioning it every time are starting to sound really racist
Uh no. It's not "being nice to brown folks". It's the continued need to bend small parts of the story around requirements that representatives of the PRC be there and always be good and right and never makes mistakes ever.
Imagine if every single movie had to portray the US government as competent, trustworthy and never wrong or corrupt in any way.
It's basically the new Hayes Code.
Strongly disagree.
Eh... Transformers and The Martian were pretty oddly paced for a "let's go China!" finale. Definitely seems like making the PRC a benevolent and giving government happens more often than say... showing how they're abducting and torturing people from Hong Kong for owning bookstores.
Do you really think that when Andy Weir wrote the book The Martian he was thinking about the Chinese audience.
The level of shameless propaganda in Hero was completely repellent. People wondered why after Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, Hero did poorly.
It's simple and has nothing to do with anti-asian bias: Crouching had a story, plot, and character movements that were well-realized. Hero had thin characterizations and a sparse story stretched over a single theme of "individuals don't matter, only the state". Yeah, cause that's a message that American audiences give a fuck about hearing.
-edit-
Oh I forgot to criticize the plot of Hero, which is understandable considering that it barely has one.
Yeah but I really liked that rainy temple scene.
I mean, the movie sucked on a lot of levels but that was a pretty kickass part.
The level of shameless propaganda in Hero was completely repellent. People wondered why after Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, Hero did poorly.
It's simple and has nothing to do with anti-asian bias: Crouching had a story, plot, and character movements that were well-realized. Hero had thin characterizations and a sparse story stretched over a single theme of "individuals don't matter, only the state". Yeah, cause that's a message that American audiences give a fuck about hearing.
-edit-
Oh I forgot to criticize the plot of Hero, which is understandable considering that it barely has one.
Yeah but I really liked that rainy temple scene.
I mean, the movie sucked on a lot of levels but that was a pretty kickass part.
The thing that got to me, other than the terrible tyranny apologist ending, is how it re-contextualized every single fight in the movie into not being a fight. In Crouching Tiger, when people were kicking each other's shit in, there was narrative weight to it. It mattered whose shit was kicked where. Hero's reveal made it so the shit kicking was retroactively meaningless, even in the context of the fiction.
"Regina Fong" I don't really care how Hero played with neo-confederates. The war was shitty and never should have been fought but we're still better off that the north won.
lol
wow
You keep having this conversation with yourself, I'll go grab some popcorn.
Well ok then:
You don't see any parallels between the two? Should I have thrown in a Lincoln or JFK quote to hammer the point home?
Cause as far as I can tell there isnt much difference between hero and an apocryphal story about how booth didn't shoot Lincoln.
Sure then we're talking about the founding myths of China rather than the founding myths of the US. But I am not sure why their myths get any less reverence than ours. Or why the message, that sacrifices are valuable to the public good, a message that we propagandize when it suits us, is particularly bad.
Now I am not going to say that Hero isn't propaganda. But it's not bad or plotless. Even if it is just another take on the heros journey
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chiasaur11Never doubt a raccoon.Do you think it's trademarked?Registered Userregular
"Regina Fong" I don't really care how Hero played with neo-confederates. The war was shitty and never should have been fought but we're still better off that the north won.
lol
wow
You keep having this conversation with yourself, I'll go grab some popcorn.
Well ok then:
You don't see any parallels between the two? Should I have thrown in a Lincoln or JFK quote to hammer the point home?
Cause as far as I can tell there isnt much difference between hero and an apocryphal story about how booth didn't shoot Lincoln.
Sure then we're talking about the founding myths of China rather than the founding myths of the US. But I am not sure why their myths get any less reverence than ours. Or why the message, that sacrifices are valuable to the public good, a message that we propagandize when it suits us, is particularly bad.
Now I am not going to say that Hero isn't propaganda. But it's not bad or plotless. Even if it is just another take on the heros journey
Abraham Lincoln was a good man who passed legislation ending slavery, respected the limitations of his office, and tried his best to balance the needs of the nation with his moral obligations.
Qin Shi Huang was a tyrant who attempted to annihilate any school of thought that didn't obey his systems, crushed independent nations to enshrine his own power, murdered hundreds for failing to make him immortal, and set up a shitty-ass government that didn't even survive to see his grandson on the throne.
If you can't tell the difference between a legitimately elected official fulfilling his oath of office and a murderous tyrant trying to get more people under his boothill, Fong's right. There's no point in having a discussion with you.
AbsoluteZeroThe new film by Quentin KoopantinoRegistered Userregular
Just saw ID2.
It lacked the heart and soul of the original but had everything else in spades and cranked to 11. If the cast had been more charismatic and some of the unnecessary characters and plot threads left on the cutting room floor, it could have been something really special.
In any case, it's worth a watch if you enjoy special effect spectacle or disaster flicks.
"Regina Fong" I don't really care how Hero played with neo-confederates. The war was shitty and never should have been fought but we're still better off that the north won.
lol
wow
You keep having this conversation with yourself, I'll go grab some popcorn.
Well ok then:
You don't see any parallels between the two? Should I have thrown in a Lincoln or JFK quote to hammer the point home?
Cause as far as I can tell there isnt much difference between hero and an apocryphal story about how booth didn't shoot Lincoln.
Sure then we're talking about the founding myths of China rather than the founding myths of the US. But I am not sure why their myths get any less reverence than ours. Or why the message, that sacrifices are valuable to the public good, a message that we propagandize when it suits us, is particularly bad.
Now I am not going to say that Hero isn't propaganda. But it's not bad or plotless. Even if it is just another take on the heros journey
Abraham Lincoln was a good man who passed legislation ending slavery, respected the limitations of his office, and tried his best to balance the needs of the nation with his moral obligations.
Qin Shi Huang was a tyrant who attempted to annihilate any school of thought that didn't obey his systems, crushed independent nations to enshrine his own power, murdered hundreds for failing to make him immortal, and set up a shitty-ass government that didn't even survive to see his grandson on the throne.
If you can't tell the difference between a legitimately elected official fulfilling his oath of office and a murderous tyrant trying to get more people under his boothill, Fong's right. There's no point in having a discussion with you.
And yet his reign was less violent than the one prior. And the Han dynasty lasted for 400 years(iirc)
Should we talk about what southerners thought of Lincoln?
"Regina Fong" I don't really care how Hero played with neo-confederates. The war was shitty and never should have been fought but we're still better off that the north won.
lol
wow
You keep having this conversation with yourself, I'll go grab some popcorn.
Well ok then:
You don't see any parallels between the two? Should I have thrown in a Lincoln or JFK quote to hammer the point home?
Cause as far as I can tell there isnt much difference between hero and an apocryphal story about how booth didn't shoot Lincoln.
Sure then we're talking about the founding myths of China rather than the founding myths of the US. But I am not sure why their myths get any less reverence than ours. Or why the message, that sacrifices are valuable to the public good, a message that we propagandize when it suits us, is particularly bad.
Now I am not going to say that Hero isn't propaganda. But it's not bad or plotless. Even if it is just another take on the heros journey
Abraham Lincoln was a good man who passed legislation ending slavery, respected the limitations of his office, and tried his best to balance the needs of the nation with his moral obligations.
Qin Shi Huang was a tyrant who attempted to annihilate any school of thought that didn't obey his systems, crushed independent nations to enshrine his own power, murdered hundreds for failing to make him immortal, and set up a shitty-ass government that didn't even survive to see his grandson on the throne.
If you can't tell the difference between a legitimately elected official fulfilling his oath of office and a murderous tyrant trying to get more people under his boothill, Fong's right. There's no point in having a discussion with you.
And yet his reign was less violent than the one prior. And the Han dynasty lasted for 400 years
Any reign would have been less violent. It was called the Warring States Era for a reason.
As for the Han dynasty they arose from the rebels against the Qin and derived their legitimacy from said rebellion.
Hardly a ringing endorsement of Qin Shi Huang.
I do like Hero though, since its a pretty good Rashomon derivative that works if you don't know the real history of China. Which I didn't when I saw it.
The sky was full of stars, every star an exploding ship. One of ours.
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chiasaur11Never doubt a raccoon.Do you think it's trademarked?Registered Userregular
"Regina Fong" I don't really care how Hero played with neo-confederates. The war was shitty and never should have been fought but we're still better off that the north won.
lol
wow
You keep having this conversation with yourself, I'll go grab some popcorn.
Well ok then:
You don't see any parallels between the two? Should I have thrown in a Lincoln or JFK quote to hammer the point home?
Cause as far as I can tell there isnt much difference between hero and an apocryphal story about how booth didn't shoot Lincoln.
Sure then we're talking about the founding myths of China rather than the founding myths of the US. But I am not sure why their myths get any less reverence than ours. Or why the message, that sacrifices are valuable to the public good, a message that we propagandize when it suits us, is particularly bad.
Now I am not going to say that Hero isn't propaganda. But it's not bad or plotless. Even if it is just another take on the heros journey
Abraham Lincoln was a good man who passed legislation ending slavery, respected the limitations of his office, and tried his best to balance the needs of the nation with his moral obligations.
Qin Shi Huang was a tyrant who attempted to annihilate any school of thought that didn't obey his systems, crushed independent nations to enshrine his own power, murdered hundreds for failing to make him immortal, and set up a shitty-ass government that didn't even survive to see his grandson on the throne.
If you can't tell the difference between a legitimately elected official fulfilling his oath of office and a murderous tyrant trying to get more people under his boothill, Fong's right. There's no point in having a discussion with you.
And yet his reign was less violent than the one prior. And the Han dynasty lasted for 400 years
Everything he built crumbled within his son's lifetime.
If you're going to defend a murderous tyrant based on efficiency, try to pick one who managed to pick a fucking successor. Say what you will about Genghis Khan, at least he realized that the world wouldn't end when he did.
Posts
Strongly disagree.
"Readers who prefer tension and romance, Maledictions: The Offering, delivers... As serious YA fiction, I’ll give it five stars out of five. As a novel? Four and a half." - Liz Ellor
My new novel: Maledictions: The Offering. Now in Paperback!
Came away pretty entertained (but then, I'm easily amused by bright lights and big explosions), though there were two big problems I had walking out of the movie.
Minor... well "plot" for lack of a better word... spoilers:
Later, they introduce a giant alien (think Kaiju sized) that rampages around wrecking shit up left and right.
The problem: The heavily armed tug with giant arms never fights the giant alien.
I don't need a full on Pacific Rim knockdown drag out fight, but it would have been nice during that whole "we've thrown everything we have at it, and it's still coming" bit to have them clock the big alien with a tug or two.
Second: The good alien sphere. I could not help but see Marvin. And when it started talking...
A huge missed opportunity to have it sound maudlin and depressed like Marvin. I mean, it would have even made sense seeing as how the sphere was the last survivor of it's race and was solely responsible for trying to put together a multi species resistance to the Harvester aliens...
Good Alien Sphere is the one on the left
It's not just me, is it? There's more than a passing resemblance here?
Sure, I know, there's only so many ways to go when the script calls for an alien sphere, but maybe go for a different color at least?
Sure, there were a whole host of smaller problems to be had here.
But those were the two big ones.
Medium problem that I feel like sharing because it's been eating my brain for the past couple hours:
Maybe they should have had the fighter pilots armed with malware filled micro PCs instead of fusion bombs...
Eh... Transformers and The Martian were pretty oddly paced for a "let's go China!" finale. Definitely seems like making the PRC a benevolent and giving government happens more often than say... showing how they're abducting and torturing people from Hong Kong for owning bookstores.
Automatically assuming that any Chinese inclusion in a movie is because of PRC demands is a problem.
That's fine. I didn't say it was different from the book or forced in. Just that recent financial changes have made those things perfectly fine to put in a movie, but other things definitely not. I am definitely not a fan of all the China romance that occurs in movies produced in China. I don't really need it in movies made other places too unless there are other narratives that also become okay.
And even then the movie can be good. I love Hero, despite it having a very pro-tyranny resolution.
I mean, it's Cracked so there is that... but it's not necessarily wrong and about as well written as I could manage. Plus I kind of like Cracked when it comes to movie stuff.
Ways China and Hollywood are teaming up to ruin movies
It even takes the time to explicitly mention how Chinese audiences don't really want this shit either. Which is important to remember, people like entertainment and escape and it doesn't matter where you're from.
Edit: The bit about Terminator Genisys making more than Fury Road is terrifying.
It was a bit different.
Also, there was a Chinese scientist who was kinda pissed at the deal. Not that he wanted Watney to die or anything, but the engine was going to launch a probe to collect data nobody else had ever gotten, advancing human knowledge. But the government didn't give a shit, because now they got to look like big shots for saving Mark and getting a dude on Mars, and that kinda sucked, from a strictly scientific knowledge prospective! Especially since there was no way in hell the program was getting the funding for another shot.
It wasn't "The Chinese Government is BAD!" or anything, they came off reasonably well in the book. But it was less "Look how nice these guys are!" and more in keeping with everyone else's "Okay, yes. Good. We want to save this guy. But... holy shit we are spending all the money on one man. Geeze."
Why I fear the ocean.
Well, ok
Literally watched the movie in between my last post and this
If I hadn't been looking for it, I wouldn't have noticed the 'pandering.'
Probably because I paid to have a good time
Would you call it a...
PSN: Wstfgl | GamerTag: An Evil Plan | Battle.net: FallenIdle#1970
Hit me up on BoardGameArena! User: Loaded D1
It's okay if you want to keep this conversation going, but you're being really snarky about it.
Wow dude, you just have the shittiest attitude. "Probably because I paid to have a good time"? Fucking please. Like, what ridiculous scenario are you imagining here? That the people you are talking to pay money to have a shitty time? Or maybe you might consider that people are actually being straight with you. And that your continued sniping is goosey as hell.
People aren't watching movies to hate on them when chinese people show up. That's fucking ridiculous and you know it.
I mean, movies taken individually that are produced by Hollywood for a US release right now are trying just hard enough to appeal to audiences to let them release the movie in China. Mostly it's about not making something that will get the movie outright banned from theatrical release. When seen as more than individual movies, there is definitely a pattern. I suspect by the end of this summer it will be a pretty tiresome theme.
Talk about shitty fuckin' attitudes, Shryke.
"Readers who prefer tension and romance, Maledictions: The Offering, delivers... As serious YA fiction, I’ll give it five stars out of five. As a novel? Four and a half." - Liz Ellor
My new novel: Maledictions: The Offering. Now in Paperback!
The ridiculous scenario is that people are going to Gigantic Stupid Blockbuster Movie and picking at the fact that the movie is trying to be a Bigger Blockbuster by not painting The Other Superpower as Not Evil-As-Fuck, and then that's a negative point
True Story: Independence Day2: Independenter is dumb as hell. It's fun, if you like that sort of thing, but it's not Alien
Female Minority Character being not stupid or evil is... literally a net positive, even though the studio wants to make money in China
The MCU and Movies thread have talked about how it would behoove studios to bring in minority and LGBT audiences for many reasons, including financially
Well, now we're getting non-Kung Fu Chinese characters who live through multiple runtimes. But it's terrible because the studio wants money from The Other Superpower?
Alright
To be honest I barely notice it in Hollywood movies. Iron Man 3 had a tiny scene where Stark went to a doctor who happened to be Chinese. The Chinese edition supposedly added something like 5 minutes which was a silly commercial for a drink. Honestly, I was disappointed to hear they changed so little, I wanted to see Marvel doing crazy shit to see how far they'd go, and got nothing interesting. In Transformers it took place in China, I can't recall anything overt and so on. Hollywood's hardly being forced into using forced Chinese actors/characters or warped their stories to fit Chinese propaganda.
I have noticed there's been an uptick of pre-emptive paranoia from Hollywood* and audiences based around what China might be forcing Hollywood to do, but little evidence backs it up.
* Dr. Strange's screenwriter being the poster boy
The problem with the movie is I just don't care about any of the characters. I always saw ID4 as a character driven drama in a sci-fi wrapper. The first one made me care about the characters. I felt for the characters. They showed the humans being human.
This one? Not so much. Vivica A. Fox dies and I don't care. Not Will Smith barely cares. Hillary Clinton's analogue dies and OH HEY LOOK AT THIS 300ft ALIEN QUEEN.
This movie just really didn't make me feel enough to care about anything.
Qin Shi Huang was not exactly a swell guy and positive portrayals of him are modern revisionist history pushed by Chinese nationalists.
It's simple and has nothing to do with anti-asian bias: Crouching had a story, plot, and character movements that were well-realized. Hero had thin characterizations and a sparse story stretched over a single theme of "individuals don't matter, only the state". Yeah, cause that's a message that American audiences give a fuck about hearing.
-edit-
Oh I forgot to criticize the plot of Hero, which is understandable considering that it barely has one.
And actually, Independence Day 2 feels far LESS international than the first. The first did a rather good job of showing the armed forces of various nations having their own, heroic stands against the aliens. In 2, since we've united, the fight happens around one base, that happens to be mostly in charge... in America. Staffed mainly by Americans.
Hero does not portray Qin as a tyrant but it also does not portray him as swell. The point of the film wasnt that tyrany is OK but that war and/or disunification is worse.
@Regina Fong I don't really care how Hero played with neo-confederates. The war was shitty and never should have been fought but we're still better off that the north won.
An impressive feat, that.
lol
wow
You keep having this conversation with yourself, I'll go grab some popcorn.
Cool explosions though.
Do you really think that when Andy Weir wrote the book The Martian he was thinking about the Chinese audience.
@dispatch.o
I don't really want to quote myself, read down a couple posts from there.
Short Answer is no.
Yeah but I really liked that rainy temple scene.
I mean, the movie sucked on a lot of levels but that was a pretty kickass part.
So movies, hmmm, I watched Jack Reacher again because the sequel trailer got me excited. Holds up for what it is!
The thing that got to me, other than the terrible tyranny apologist ending, is how it re-contextualized every single fight in the movie into not being a fight. In Crouching Tiger, when people were kicking each other's shit in, there was narrative weight to it. It mattered whose shit was kicked where. Hero's reveal made it so the shit kicking was retroactively meaningless, even in the context of the fiction.
Why I fear the ocean.
You don't see any parallels between the two? Should I have thrown in a Lincoln or JFK quote to hammer the point home?
Cause as far as I can tell there isnt much difference between hero and an apocryphal story about how booth didn't shoot Lincoln.
Sure then we're talking about the founding myths of China rather than the founding myths of the US. But I am not sure why their myths get any less reverence than ours. Or why the message, that sacrifices are valuable to the public good, a message that we propagandize when it suits us, is particularly bad.
Now I am not going to say that Hero isn't propaganda. But it's not bad or plotless. Even if it is just another take on the heros journey
Abraham Lincoln was a good man who passed legislation ending slavery, respected the limitations of his office, and tried his best to balance the needs of the nation with his moral obligations.
Qin Shi Huang was a tyrant who attempted to annihilate any school of thought that didn't obey his systems, crushed independent nations to enshrine his own power, murdered hundreds for failing to make him immortal, and set up a shitty-ass government that didn't even survive to see his grandson on the throne.
If you can't tell the difference between a legitimately elected official fulfilling his oath of office and a murderous tyrant trying to get more people under his boothill, Fong's right. There's no point in having a discussion with you.
Why I fear the ocean.
It lacked the heart and soul of the original but had everything else in spades and cranked to 11. If the cast had been more charismatic and some of the unnecessary characters and plot threads left on the cutting room floor, it could have been something really special.
In any case, it's worth a watch if you enjoy special effect spectacle or disaster flicks.
And yet his reign was less violent than the one prior. And the Han dynasty lasted for 400 years(iirc)
Should we talk about what southerners thought of Lincoln?
Any reign would have been less violent. It was called the Warring States Era for a reason.
As for the Han dynasty they arose from the rebels against the Qin and derived their legitimacy from said rebellion.
Hardly a ringing endorsement of Qin Shi Huang.
I do like Hero though, since its a pretty good Rashomon derivative that works if you don't know the real history of China. Which I didn't when I saw it.
Everything he built crumbled within his son's lifetime.
If you're going to defend a murderous tyrant based on efficiency, try to pick one who managed to pick a fucking successor. Say what you will about Genghis Khan, at least he realized that the world wouldn't end when he did.
Why I fear the ocean.