tzeentchlingDoctor of RocksOaklandRegistered Userregular
edited May 2017
@Cerberus I did poorly, 5-5. My corp (EtF Foodcoats) went technically undefeated on the day, though I had a game loss when we found that Timmy had accidentally kept one of my agendas from our game the previous round. My Temujin Whizzard just couldn't catch a break, however, and went 1-4.
Really, the field was incredibly diverse - I don't think anyone has a handle on a best deck yet for either side. Most prevalent was Temujin Whizz for runner, but there was a bunch of crim and some shaper too (Kate/Hayley/Ayla from what I saw). EtF was the most popular corp, either Foodcoats or Moon, but all three other factions were there too.
Top was Timmy on EtF Moon/Taps-DLR Andy, then Jon on Temujin Whizz/Scorpio. Andrew Cortez in third with Siphon Whizz and Boom Sol, and Ran in fourth with Temujin Whizz and Foodcoats.
If only NDA's weren't in the way, I would love to actually hear the story of what went down in the last year. Feels like there must've been a massive breakdown of communication and systems between playtesters, developers, proof-readers, editors, etc. Would be worth at least a bowl or two of popcorn.
PMAvers on
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I'm really struggling with Regular(ish) Whizzard at the minute, be it Temujin or Sifr. Slots are tight and it feels to me like a deck that's 50% against the whole field and hence doesn't have strongly favoured match-ups. CI and SYNC feel rough, though, and every game feels quite punishing on mistakes.
I thought I'd settled on a general deck archetype for Euros/Regionals, but now I'm second guessing myself.
Yeah the corp in TD is favoured and if they get going their unlocks are incredibly strong and hard to stop.
But if the runner can stop them from getting going and is able to push out some wins they can easily take a campaign. But if things are even the corp def gets the upper hand.
I'm mostly disappointed with how crap some of the runner rewards are and how inconsistent the narrative is. It's pretty unfortunate
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Shortytouching the meatIntergalactic Cool CourtRegistered Userregular
all I have to add to the TD conversation is that I do not believe a professional writer put eyes on this before it went to print
I'm going to be playing TD with a friend's copy; what's the "official" recommendation for the card pool? I think I saw somewhere that they were recommending one core + TD, but I couldn't find evidence of that. Does it say somewhere in the TD rulebook?
I'm disappointed to hear that TD has snowball/slippery slope problems. I remember reading the previews and thinking the bonus powers would be a good comeback mechanism to keep the campaign close, but it sounds like in actual practice they did the opposite of that?
all I have to add to the TD conversation is that I do not believe a professional writer put eyes on this before it went to print
I played through it with another games writer friend of mine, and our consensus is that some of the writing in there is really good (the bios for the IDs, some of the story cards) and some of it is really... really bad. Like, the worst netrunner fluff writing we've seen.
and then the narrative structure just sucked so we're pretty perplexed about who worked out how to do the narrative because it sure doesn't feel like a writer did...
I'm going to be playing TD with a friend's copy; what's the "official" recommendation for the card pool? I think I saw somewhere that they were recommending one core + TD, but I couldn't find evidence of that. Does it say somewhere in the TD rulebook?
I'm disappointed to hear that TD has snowball/slippery slope problems. I remember reading the previews and thinking the bonus powers would be a good comeback mechanism to keep the campaign close, but it sounds like in actual practice they did the opposite of that?
you unlock the bonus powers from winning games, mostly. there's 2 packets you get for managing to do other things, but at least for runner they were very very crap (I never saw the corp ones). The true comeback mechanic comes when you lose 4 games. In my campaign, the 4th game I lost was also the game my friend won the campaign. Hilariously he got to win that final game with HIS comeback cards because I'd just won my 4th game.
We played 2x core + TD. I sorta feel like 2x core + TD + a big box might be better.
We stopped reading the narrative stuff after a bit, partly because I was getting so annoyed with just not having a chance to win. I unlocked the 'lose four games' pack for the corp, but lost the game before I had a chance to use any of the cards. I don't think they'd have made much of a difference, to be honest. The runner's powers were doing things like dumping cash on him when I drew a card, or when he installed X programs or spent a click to draw X cards, while I had still opened only the emergency pack.
There are punishment packs that are supposed to even things out, but the harmful effects are super easy to remove permanently, and are less of a disability and more of a tiny speedbump.
For example, the current that means the runner has to spend 2 creds to use an icebreaker is a real roadblock, but it's removed permanently if you end your turn with no cards in hand. It lasted about two turns in our campaign, I think.
It does seem odd they didn't go for the winning games packs not giving linked cards to both players (Say runner wins and gets a new ally, but from the same pack the Corp gets a choice of new surveillance tools).
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tzeentchlingDoctor of RocksOaklandRegistered Userregular
Oh and I forgot the runner power he picked up which essentially stopped the game being winnable for me even via luck.
Every trashed card goes to the top of his deck.
To be fair, that only applies if the corp has less than 3 remotes. It's supposed to make the corp shift their deck/strategy.
As worded though, it's a bit stupid in that events played then go back to the top, so we ruled that was stupid enough to disallow and made it only trashed installed cards.
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ArcticLancerBest served chilled.Registered Userregular
edited May 2017
We played 4 games on Thursday and my takeaway was that it's probably worse than I expected it to be. Amazingly, our games are 2-2, but the first was kind of a wash because I just played the runner deck my friend made and it was pretty bad. Changes post-game-1 made it much better overall, but there's a kicker in there: If you played Netrunner at release, TD basically says "Hey, remember the decks that were good when the game started? Those are still really good." All I did was use Datasucker alongside the new criminal breakers and - *gasp* - it's still really good.
The second part that's disappointing is that the cards in TD are "incredibly and unbearably Damon", which is to say they're pretty much designed to be a pre-packaged deck with their internal synergy. Or they're designed to accomplish the objectives of the release kit. Meh ...
Agree with the above that the runner unlocks have largely been a joke. Some of them could be playable in Shaper, but there's no place for them in Criminals at all so far. Also, the runner cautions are LUDICROUSLY more difficult for the runner to deal with than the corp dealing with theirs. We haven't broken any so far, but frig, just playing within those confines is hard. That said, it's probably the most fun part of the whole thing so far? I feel like managing that as a secondary puzzle is actually great.
If only NDA's weren't in the way, I would love to actually hear the story of what went down in the last year. Feels like there must've been a massive breakdown of communication and systems between playtesters, developers, proof-readers, editors, etc. Would be worth at least a bowl or two of popcorn.
100% speculation, but I doubt there's any drama at all. Company that was always fairly popular has become more popular by pushing a bunch of games that require constant, near-monthly support. Company still isn't that big and hasn't had a massive growth in that same span. Company was also bought by another company, which could potentially cause some hiccups if there's a bit of shuffling.
AGoT 2.0, Conquest, L5R, LotR, Netrunner, Star Wars LCG, Imperial Assualt, X-Wing, Armada, Destiny, Runewars Miniatures - none of these are "complete" games.
We stopped reading the narrative stuff after a bit, partly because I was getting so annoyed with just not having a chance to win. I unlocked the 'lose four games' pack for the corp, but lost the game before I had a chance to use any of the cards. I don't think they'd have made much of a difference, to be honest. The runner's powers were doing things like dumping cash on him when I drew a card, or when he installed X programs or spent a click to draw X cards, while I had still opened only the emergency pack.
There are punishment packs that are supposed to even things out, but the harmful effects are super easy to remove permanently, and are less of a disability and more of a tiny speedbump.
For example, the current that means the runner has to spend 2 creds to use an icebreaker is a real roadblock, but it's removed permanently if you end your turn with no cards in hand. It lasted about two turns in our campaign, I think.
see for me as runner it was just like that
I found it really hard to avoid one of my bad things, but I got rid of the cards pretty quick and unlocked... a really shit card I never used, yay.
and then I basically never unlocked anything else other than getting credits when he clicked to draw which was cool... except he never had to click to draw because he got a corp power that made his mandatory draw be his choice of 0, 1, or 2 cards.
Meanwhile he had a 5c trash asset that gave me a tag when he rezzes an ice, and later that got upgraded to make me access 1 less card if I accessed cards while tagged so that was kinda not really very good for me at all.
all the runner cards I unlocked were shit. the abilities weren't that great, and meanwhile all the corp unlock cards were bonkers strong and the corp powers were insane.
and then I'm play Steve vs Skorpy so I barely even got to use my ID ability....
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ArcticLancerBest served chilled.Registered Userregular
Actually, can I just take one moment to call out how bad Spear Phishing is? It's actively frustrating that it's a symmetrical design to Inside Job because it's a pale shadow by comparison. It has NONE of the flexibility Inside Job does, and for the same cost it requires you to do a lot more dirty work to actually make it work. About the best use for it is jumping over a 1-deep server in the early game and saving you an Inside Job for later, but how does that justify 3-influence at all? Or a deck slot outside of this format? If anything the card kinda feels like it was #ShaperBullshit at some point in its lifespan before someone decided, "Nah, it just has to be Criminal." and made it blue.
Shortytouching the meatIntergalactic Cool CourtRegistered Userregular
yeah in a world where decks already don't run three copies of inside job, which is objectively a better card, I can't see much reason to play spear phishing
Been playing a lot of moonspam these last two days (the Scots going to babw requested practice against it). It strikes me that Moon is a pretty crazy card, and I wonder how a card that is *three* high powered cards stapled together (a super NEH id ability + two Turtlebacks) wasn't seen as an issue. I had games where I lost 6 points by turn 2 and still won easily from drawing moons.
I almost had the sweetest win ever against Hasty CI as Whizz last night. Unfortunately my opponent fluffed the combo and decked themselves, but I had Rebirth, Parasite, and Deja Vu in hand, two viruses in the heap, and a Nerve Agent on a Street Peddler.
Nobody expects to get Noise milled out of Whizzard!
Man, this one is going to be a pain in the butt to get, isn't it?
Granted, my Scorches were probably my best investment out of all alt-arts so far...
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
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tzeentchlingDoctor of RocksOaklandRegistered Userregular
Here's the breakdown from NorCal Regionals this past weekend. Lots of Whizzard, lots of EtF, though how many of those were FoodCoats variants and how many were Moonite variants is hard to say.
I don't understand how Timmy Wong's corp deck wins games
like, it has a few options to score out.
fast advance with recured biotics, slow rolling with smart fabrics or Moon+Sandburg, and never advancing possibly with jeeves.
and most of these are some variety of must trash asset that can been endlessly spammed costing the runner cash and clicks that creates scoring windows and makes it hard to run everything.
They moistly come out at night, moistly.
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Shortytouching the meatIntergalactic Cool CourtRegistered Userregular
most of the things that let you score are singletons that also require some other card, though
most of the things that let you score are singletons that also require some other card, though
Moon should allow you draw enough to hit some of the singles. As far as I can see the deck can self mill really easily.
yeah see that's what's crazy to me, it's a really slow deck that probably plans on drawing out the midgame with DBS, but it also draws a boatload of cards
Ouch, I bet playing against that is painful if it gets rolling. Clone Suffrage Movement to pick up Friends in High Places to reinstall more Clone Suffrage Movements and other jazz. And after you draw a whole bunch from Estelle Moon you get to spend turns throwing down gobs of must-trash assets with 3/2 agendas mixed in for scores (and even if they guess right and run the agendas, they might not be able to steal if you have Smartfabrics installed). And Clone Suffrage gets your Biotics back, or gobs of money from Diversified Portfolio....ow, ow, ow
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tzeentchlingDoctor of RocksOaklandRegistered Userregular
I actually played it in the first round. I had 2xHacktivist, Maw, Rumor Mill, and Salsette in my Whizzard, and I still couldn't keep it all down. I was doing really well for the first 6 turns or so, getting to 4 points, but eventually it got out of hand. Probably need more practice in general and I could have won. Not trashing a Turtlebacks early on was probably a mistake.
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Really, the field was incredibly diverse - I don't think anyone has a handle on a best deck yet for either side. Most prevalent was Temujin Whizz for runner, but there was a bunch of crim and some shaper too (Kate/Hayley/Ayla from what I saw). EtF was the most popular corp, either Foodcoats or Moon, but all three other factions were there too.
Top was Timmy on EtF Moon/Taps-DLR Andy, then Jon on Temujin Whizz/Scorpio. Andrew Cortez in third with Siphon Whizz and Boom Sol, and Ran in fourth with Temujin Whizz and Foodcoats.
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
I thought I'd settled on a general deck archetype for Euros/Regionals, but now I'm second guessing myself.
But if the runner can stop them from getting going and is able to push out some wins they can easily take a campaign. But if things are even the corp def gets the upper hand.
I'm mostly disappointed with how crap some of the runner rewards are and how inconsistent the narrative is. It's pretty unfortunate
I'm disappointed to hear that TD has snowball/slippery slope problems. I remember reading the previews and thinking the bonus powers would be a good comeback mechanism to keep the campaign close, but it sounds like in actual practice they did the opposite of that?
I played through it with another games writer friend of mine, and our consensus is that some of the writing in there is really good (the bios for the IDs, some of the story cards) and some of it is really... really bad. Like, the worst netrunner fluff writing we've seen.
and then the narrative structure just sucked so we're pretty perplexed about who worked out how to do the narrative because it sure doesn't feel like a writer did...
you unlock the bonus powers from winning games, mostly. there's 2 packets you get for managing to do other things, but at least for runner they were very very crap (I never saw the corp ones). The true comeback mechanic comes when you lose 4 games. In my campaign, the 4th game I lost was also the game my friend won the campaign. Hilariously he got to win that final game with HIS comeback cards because I'd just won my 4th game.
We played 2x core + TD. I sorta feel like 2x core + TD + a big box might be better.
There are punishment packs that are supposed to even things out, but the harmful effects are super easy to remove permanently, and are less of a disability and more of a tiny speedbump.
Choose Your Own Chat 1 Choose Your Own Chat 2 Choose Your Own Chat 3
Choose Your Own Chat 1 Choose Your Own Chat 2 Choose Your Own Chat 3
As worded though, it's a bit stupid in that events played then go back to the top, so we ruled that was stupid enough to disallow and made it only trashed installed cards.
The second part that's disappointing is that the cards in TD are "incredibly and unbearably Damon", which is to say they're pretty much designed to be a pre-packaged deck with their internal synergy. Or they're designed to accomplish the objectives of the release kit. Meh ...
Agree with the above that the runner unlocks have largely been a joke. Some of them could be playable in Shaper, but there's no place for them in Criminals at all so far. Also, the runner cautions are LUDICROUSLY more difficult for the runner to deal with than the corp dealing with theirs. We haven't broken any so far, but frig, just playing within those confines is hard. That said, it's probably the most fun part of the whole thing so far? I feel like managing that as a secondary puzzle is actually great.
Perhaps I can interest you in my meager selection of pins?
100% speculation, but I doubt there's any drama at all. Company that was always fairly popular has become more popular by pushing a bunch of games that require constant, near-monthly support. Company still isn't that big and hasn't had a massive growth in that same span. Company was also bought by another company, which could potentially cause some hiccups if there's a bit of shuffling.
AGoT 2.0, Conquest, L5R, LotR, Netrunner, Star Wars LCG, Imperial Assualt, X-Wing, Armada, Destiny, Runewars Miniatures - none of these are "complete" games.
Perhaps I can interest you in my meager selection of pins?
see for me as runner it was just like that
and then I basically never unlocked anything else other than getting credits when he clicked to draw which was cool... except he never had to click to draw because he got a corp power that made his mandatory draw be his choice of 0, 1, or 2 cards.
Meanwhile he had a 5c trash asset that gave me a tag when he rezzes an ice, and later that got upgraded to make me access 1 less card if I accessed cards while tagged so that was kinda not really very good for me at all.
all the runner cards I unlocked were shit. the abilities weren't that great, and meanwhile all the corp unlock cards were bonkers strong and the corp powers were insane.
and then I'm play Steve vs Skorpy so I barely even got to use my ID ability....
Perhaps I can interest you in my meager selection of pins?
Nobody expects to get Noise milled out of Whizzard!
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/op/national-championships/android-netrunner/
ALT-ART BOOM?!
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
Perhaps I can interest you in my meager selection of pins?
Granted, my Scorches were probably my best investment out of all alt-arts so far...
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
https://alwaysberunning.net/tournaments/509/norcal-regionals-2017
like, it has a few options to score out.
fast advance with recured biotics, slow rolling with smart fabrics or Moon+Sandburg, and never advancing possibly with jeeves.
and most of these are some variety of must trash asset that can been endlessly spammed costing the runner cash and clicks that creates scoring windows and makes it hard to run everything.
Moon should allow you draw enough to hit some of the singles. As far as I can see the deck can self mill really easily.
yeah see that's what's crazy to me, it's a really slow deck that probably plans on drawing out the midgame with DBS, but it also draws a boatload of cards
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
DLR also works against the deck I expect.
I am very tempted to run either apocalypse or a maw/hacktivist whizzard to combat these new horizontal decks.