It's a problematic card as a piece of a combo, as it grants mass stealth to a potentially huge board (or a few key creatures), so it completely eliminates counterplay of any targeted removal.
While I agree... what the hell is Rogue now? Isn't Stealth like a huge part (if not the only part) of the class?
HOLY SHIT MASSIVE FUCKING CHANGES INC FOR YEAR OF THE MAMMOTH
6 Classic Cards being permanently rotated into Wild (called "Hall of Fame"): Azure Drake, Ragnaros, Sylvanas, Ice Lance, Conceal, Power Overwhelming. You will get FULL DUST VALUE GIVEN TO YOU FOR FREE. No need to disenchant.
THREE EXPANSIONS COMING NEXT YEAR.
MAIEV SHADOWSONG ROGUE HERO AWARDED FOR WINNING 10 GAMES AFTER THE EXPAC DROPS
I'm so happy I never dusted by Golden Sylvanas (I always assumed I would get a regular one and then dust the golden one) but I never did and now I'm rewarded.
I think I actually am the only person who argued that Azure Drake's omnipresence was as much of a problem as the cards people were complaining about though, so I do take some satisfaction in that.
It's a problematic card as a piece of a combo, as it grants mass stealth to a potentially huge board (or a few key creatures), so it completely eliminates counterplay of any targeted removal.
While I agree... what the hell is Rogue now? Isn't Stealth like a huge part (if not the only part) of the class?
We've removed Conceal to open up more design space for weapon buffs
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KoopahTroopahThe koopas, the troopas.Philadelphia, PARegistered Userregular
Also, this is great, great news. However, this is also yet another announcement for an announcement. Year of the Mammoth starts with the next expansion, but when is that?
"We considered promoting Gadgetzan Auctioneer to Wild instead, but in the end we decided to move Conceal because Auctioneer has proven to be one of the most skill testing cards in the game. We think the power level of Auctioneer decreases with this change, and games where Auctioneer is played will be a bit more interactive."
"Auctioneer has proven to be one of the most skill testing cards in the game"
"one of the most SKILL TESTING CARDS IN THE GAME"
oh i'm sorry, i wasn't aware that dropping auctioneer and chaining a bunch of zero/low cost spells to draw your whole deck was "skill testing" :rotate:
Azure drake is just best in slot, it's not that it's too good, but for any other 5 drop to take its place, that card would likely be too good. Basically a way to avoid power creep
PSN SeGaTai
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Tynnanseldom correct, never unsureRegistered Userregular
@MNC Dover I'm interested in the tournament, as long as it lines up with my availability. Do you know when it might take place?
I think I actually am the only person who argued that Azure Drake's omnipresence was as much of a problem as the cards people were complaining about though, so I do take some satisfaction in that.
I think a lot of us agreed with you.... it just wasn't as fun to complain about :P. I think it comes as a surprise to no one that, given Classic cards being rotated out, Azure Drake is one of them.
oh i'm sorry, i wasn't aware that dropping auctioneer and chaining a bunch of zero/low cost spells to draw your whole deck was "skill testing" :rotate:
Yes, it is, because you have to decide when it's a good idea to go for it. And this is Hearthstone we're talking about, where you currently die on turn 4.
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Metal JaredMulligan WizardRhode IslandRegistered Userregular
I'm not sure if this is good or bad for FTP players. While not having to spend hundreds upon hundreds of gold to buy an adventure is good, they will, on average, have a bunch less legendaries to play with. The best thing about the adventures was getting 4/5 Legendaries for $25. Reno/Finlay/Elise/Brann was a great value for your dollar. I fear that will not be the case going forward
I think I actually am the only person who argued that Azure Drake's omnipresence was as much of a problem as the cards people were complaining about though, so I do take some satisfaction in that.
I think a lot of us agreed with you.... it just wasn't as fun to complain about :P. I think it comes as a surprise to no one that, given Classic cards being rotated out, Azure Drake is one of them.
Yeah in the same vein that Sylvanas was the ubiquitous 6 drop and Rags was the ubiquitous 8 drop, Azure Drake was the ubiquitous 5 drop.
You always had to compare any potential 5 drops to Azure Drake and ask if it was worth running over it, and the answer was always no. Spell Power, Draw a card, and a decent 4/4 body. AND a Dragon. Way too good. Plus with Azure Drakes you never needed to consider any other sources of Spell Power. That was all you needed, plus maybe Thalnos.
So this opens the door for not only more 5 drops, but for other Spell Power minions.
I'm going to miss Sylvanas; I think that over the lifetime of the game, she may have been my favorite legendary.
So, this means that if we want the six departing cards for Wild/Brawl shenanigans in the future (or even in Standard until the end of the Year of the Kraken), we can craft full-on bling bling gold versions of all of those cards and then be refunded for it when the Year of the Mammoth starts.
That is delightful.
EDIT: Actually, I'm not sure: if you have golden and non-golden copies of those cards, will they give you dust for both?
Well, you don't have to dust him. You get the golden dust for free when the Year of the Mammoth starts, and keep your Rag!
Oh wow. I clearly can't read!
Still feels weird removing some of these high cost cards when aggro is the main reason I've slowed down playing, though.
Shamanstone will be much less a problem after the rotation.
There is actually a small (small) chance shaman will be trash post-rotation because it goes back to the priest problem of zero good early game minions, and druid might just do slow jade better
GoodKingJayIIIThey wanna get mygold on the ceilingRegistered Userregular
Going through this detailed post now. Thoughts as they come.
- Azure Drake, Sylvanas, Ragnaros go to Wild. Makes sense, I think this is a good move
- I'm disappointed by PO and Ice Lance. I really don't think the game should lose the burst/combo style decks. The game is not that complicated as it is, and combo decks add a nice variety of play
- Conceal also makes sense
- Disappointed Auctioneer is not on that list, but he's pretty specific to two classes--Rogue and Druid. And Rogue would be dead without that card
- 3200 free dust is pretty nice. Nothing to sneeze at
- Three ~130-card expansions? Thank you! That's still a pretty small number of cards compared to what MTG releases annually, but it's a big improvement. I like the adventures, but I want more cards and deck building options. Single player content is less relevant to me
- Happy to hear more effort towards Wild; hopefully we get some worthwhile tournaments out of it
- Maeiv shows up, easy to get. Sounds good to me.
I like the sound of most of this. Bring on the new content.
GrobianWhat's on sale?Pliers!Registered Userregular
The hall of fame looks interesting and will definitely change decks in standard. Giving out the dust for free is a neat solution.
But I still have to quit the game because Garona wasn't the first alternate rogue hero. Kinda sucks.
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BethrynUnhappiness is MandatoryRegistered Userregular
So it looks like Mammoth will be rotating in before another set is released, rather than concurrent with one as with WotOG. Q1 (presumably mid-March) for Mammoth, Q2 for 1st expansion.
A certain crater looks confirmed for first expansion; second expansion looks wizard related, as those are the symbols from the spellbook on Medivh's board.
I'm guessing they decided to ditch Adventures because they were bloating Android disk usage too much. Very temporary single-player release-only adventures make good sense from that perspective. I think it will be a pity for player's legendary collections, but who knows, maybe there'll be card rewards from the mini-adventures.
I'm a little surprised Flametongue Totem, Aldor Peacekeeper, SI:7 Agent, Mana Wyrm and Fiery War Axe were untouched. In particular feels like there should be interesting opportunities for early game Warrior weapons, and FWA is crowding the 2 and honestly 3 spots out. I also suspect a rework to Silence is necessary, but I'm not expecting Team 5 to recognise that just yet.
So it looks like Mammoth will be rotating in before another set is released, rather than concurrent with one as with WotOG. Q1 (presumably mid-March) for Mammoth, Q2 for 1st expansion.
A certain crater looks confirmed for first expansion; second expansion looks wizard related, as those are the symbols from the spellbook on Medivh's board.
I'm guessing they decided to ditch Adventures because they were bloating Android disk usage too much. Very temporary single-player release-only adventures make good sense from that perspective. I think it will be a pity for player's legendary collections, but who knows, maybe there'll be card rewards from the mini-adventures.
I'm a little surprised Flametongue Totem, Aldor Peacekeeper, SI:7 Agent, Mana Wyrm and Fiery War Axe were untouched. In particular feels like there should be interesting opportunities for early game Warrior weapons, and FWA is crowding the 2 and honestly 3 spots out. I also suspect a rework to Silence is necessary, but I'm not expecting Team 5 to recognise that just yet.
Woah, confirmation on the bolded? That contradicts everything I've ever heard.
I agree that "auto-include" cards are bad for the health and diversity of the game. I do wonder if Azure Drake was always such a dominant auto-pick or whether that's a more recent phenomenon... like... when some of the other dragon cards cycled out, would AD still be as dominant? Then again, I doubt Blizz wants to remove dragon decks, plus AD was an auto-pick for so many classes, so... yeah.
I agree that Conceal was not fun and not interactive. But I really do think it's Auctioneer that makes it feel that way. When someone drops some non-Auctioneer shit and Conceals, that makes me feel like I'm playing a Rogue. I need a Taunt, or a board clear, or a heal - but I'm not powerless because of it. Oddly, this change makes me want to try putting together a wholly unique (and probably not at all competitive) Rogue deck. The class has been a basement dweller for so long, even though some of my favorite decks from the past year (a deck I found in this thread featuring N'Zoth and Yogg; Pirate Rogue, pre-Patches) have been Rogue ones.
Love the free dust. Doesn't it... if they're going to give you dust for every copy of these cards that you have, doesn't it kinda make sense to just craft golden Rags right now until you have as many of them as you can afford? Or am I getting this wrong?
Also: gimme Maiev. And new cards. I admit that as much fun as I had with the adventures, and as well done as they were, I basically played each one for a few nights and never looked back. The novelty wore off a bit for me, and I always just wanted to see what was happening with the shifted meta instead.
Love the free dust. Doesn't it... if they're going to give you dust for every copy of these cards that you have, doesn't it kinda make sense to just craft golden Rags right now until you have as many of them as you can afford? Or am I getting this wrong?
.
They only give you dust for as many copies as you can play in a deck. So at most one Golden Rag (and then you don't get dust for any regular rags you have) etc.
Love the free dust. Doesn't it... if they're going to give you dust for every copy of these cards that you have, doesn't it kinda make sense to just craft golden Rags right now until you have as many of them as you can afford? Or am I getting this wrong?
.
They only give you dust for as many copies as you can play in a deck. So at most one Golden Rag (and then you don't get dust for any regular rags you have) etc.
Sounds like you can make a profit, here, by DE-ing after the free dust. For example, you can craft a Gold Ragnaros, get 3200 dust to pay for the golden one (now you broke even), the DE the gold one for an extra 1600 dust. That theoretically works regardless of whether you have a normal Ragnaros now or not.
Love the free dust. Doesn't it... if they're going to give you dust for every copy of these cards that you have, doesn't it kinda make sense to just craft golden Rags right now until you have as many of them as you can afford? Or am I getting this wrong?
.
They only give you dust for as many copies as you can play in a deck. So at most one Golden Rag (and then you don't get dust for any regular rags you have) etc.
Sounds like you can make a profit, here, by DE-ing after the free dust. For example, you can craft a Gold Ragnaros, get 3200 dust to pay for the golden one (now you broke even), the DE the gold one for an extra 1600 dust. That theoretically works regardless of whether you have a normal Ragnaros now or not.
If you had a normal rag before you would also earn 1600 dust.
Love the free dust. Doesn't it... if they're going to give you dust for every copy of these cards that you have, doesn't it kinda make sense to just craft golden Rags right now until you have as many of them as you can afford? Or am I getting this wrong?
.
They only give you dust for as many copies as you can play in a deck. So at most one Golden Rag (and then you don't get dust for any regular rags you have) etc.
Sounds like you can make a profit, here, by DE-ing after the free dust. For example, you can craft a Gold Ragnaros, get 3200 dust to pay for the golden one (now you broke even), the DE the gold one for an extra 1600 dust. That theoretically works regardless of whether you have a normal Ragnaros now or not.
If you had a normal rag before you would also earn 1600 dust.
Posts
While I agree... what the hell is Rogue now? Isn't Stealth like a huge part (if not the only part) of the class?
Twitch: KoopahTroopah - Steam: Koopah
I'm so happy I never dusted by Golden Sylvanas (I always assumed I would get a regular one and then dust the golden one) but I never did and now I'm rewarded.
PSN: SoulCrusherJared
it was probably worth it, whatever it was (N'Zoth I think?) but maannnnn
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
We've removed Conceal to open up more design space for weapon buffs
Twitch: KoopahTroopah - Steam: Koopah
"Auctioneer has proven to be one of the most skill testing cards in the game"
"one of the most SKILL TESTING CARDS IN THE GAME"
oh i'm sorry, i wasn't aware that dropping auctioneer and chaining a bunch of zero/low cost spells to draw your whole deck was "skill testing" :rotate:
Nixing Conceal is a good thing though.
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
I think a lot of us agreed with you.... it just wasn't as fun to complain about :P. I think it comes as a surprise to no one that, given Classic cards being rotated out, Azure Drake is one of them.
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
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That's looking great!
Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
Wilds of Aladrion: [https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/43159014/#Comment_43159014]Ellandryn[/url]
I mean, you might as well, yeah? If you want to use any of these cards, this is the optimal time to craft them.
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PSN: SoulCrusherJared
I refuse to dust golden Legendaries....maybe it'll encourage me to try Wild.
PSN: Bizazedo
CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
Well, you don't have to dust him. You get the golden dust for free when the Year of the Mammoth starts, and keep your Rag!
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
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Still feels weird removing some of these high cost cards when aggro is the main reason I've slowed down playing, though.
PSN: Bizazedo
CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
Yeah in the same vein that Sylvanas was the ubiquitous 6 drop and Rags was the ubiquitous 8 drop, Azure Drake was the ubiquitous 5 drop.
You always had to compare any potential 5 drops to Azure Drake and ask if it was worth running over it, and the answer was always no. Spell Power, Draw a card, and a decent 4/4 body. AND a Dragon. Way too good. Plus with Azure Drakes you never needed to consider any other sources of Spell Power. That was all you needed, plus maybe Thalnos.
So this opens the door for not only more 5 drops, but for other Spell Power minions.
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
So, this means that if we want the six departing cards for Wild/Brawl shenanigans in the future (or even in Standard until the end of the Year of the Kraken), we can craft full-on bling bling gold versions of all of those cards and then be refunded for it when the Year of the Mammoth starts.
That is delightful.
EDIT: Actually, I'm not sure: if you have golden and non-golden copies of those cards, will they give you dust for both?
PSN: Bizazedo
CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
There is actually a small (small) chance shaman will be trash post-rotation because it goes back to the priest problem of zero good early game minions, and druid might just do slow jade better
Pending whatever is in the expansion, of course
- Azure Drake, Sylvanas, Ragnaros go to Wild. Makes sense, I think this is a good move
- I'm disappointed by PO and Ice Lance. I really don't think the game should lose the burst/combo style decks. The game is not that complicated as it is, and combo decks add a nice variety of play
- Conceal also makes sense
- Disappointed Auctioneer is not on that list, but he's pretty specific to two classes--Rogue and Druid. And Rogue would be dead without that card
- 3200 free dust is pretty nice. Nothing to sneeze at
- Three ~130-card expansions? Thank you! That's still a pretty small number of cards compared to what MTG releases annually, but it's a big improvement. I like the adventures, but I want more cards and deck building options. Single player content is less relevant to me
- Happy to hear more effort towards Wild; hopefully we get some worthwhile tournaments out of it
- Maeiv shows up, easy to get. Sounds good to me.
I like the sound of most of this. Bring on the new content.
But I still have to quit the game because Garona wasn't the first alternate rogue hero. Kinda sucks.
A certain crater looks confirmed for first expansion; second expansion looks wizard related, as those are the symbols from the spellbook on Medivh's board.
I'm guessing they decided to ditch Adventures because they were bloating Android disk usage too much. Very temporary single-player release-only adventures make good sense from that perspective. I think it will be a pity for player's legendary collections, but who knows, maybe there'll be card rewards from the mini-adventures.
I'm a little surprised Flametongue Totem, Aldor Peacekeeper, SI:7 Agent, Mana Wyrm and Fiery War Axe were untouched. In particular feels like there should be interesting opportunities for early game Warrior weapons, and FWA is crowding the 2 and honestly 3 spots out. I also suspect a rework to Silence is necessary, but I'm not expecting Team 5 to recognise that just yet.
Woah, confirmation on the bolded? That contradicts everything I've ever heard.
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
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The article explicitly states that the rotation happens with the first expansion
I agree that Conceal was not fun and not interactive. But I really do think it's Auctioneer that makes it feel that way. When someone drops some non-Auctioneer shit and Conceals, that makes me feel like I'm playing a Rogue. I need a Taunt, or a board clear, or a heal - but I'm not powerless because of it. Oddly, this change makes me want to try putting together a wholly unique (and probably not at all competitive) Rogue deck. The class has been a basement dweller for so long, even though some of my favorite decks from the past year (a deck I found in this thread featuring N'Zoth and Yogg; Pirate Rogue, pre-Patches) have been Rogue ones.
Love the free dust. Doesn't it... if they're going to give you dust for every copy of these cards that you have, doesn't it kinda make sense to just craft golden Rags right now until you have as many of them as you can afford? Or am I getting this wrong?
Also: gimme Maiev. And new cards. I admit that as much fun as I had with the adventures, and as well done as they were, I basically played each one for a few nights and never looked back. The novelty wore off a bit for me, and I always just wanted to see what was happening with the shifted meta instead.
The official-looking image explicitly states that the year begins before the first expansion.
So... what, they are starting the new HS year and nothing changes? This is weird.
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
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They only give you dust for as many copies as you can play in a deck. So at most one Golden Rag (and then you don't get dust for any regular rags you have) etc.
Sounds like you can make a profit, here, by DE-ing after the free dust. For example, you can craft a Gold Ragnaros, get 3200 dust to pay for the golden one (now you broke even), the DE the gold one for an extra 1600 dust. That theoretically works regardless of whether you have a normal Ragnaros now or not.
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
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If you had a normal rag before you would also earn 1600 dust.
Yes. That is, in fact, exactly what I said :P
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
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