I'm terrible at this game, can't shoot for shit, die in every straight up gun fight.
And with 270 hours in game, I can't recall the last time I died to the blue.
My favorite jump spots are power plant, hospital, severny, lipovka. All edge areas.
Seriously, why are you dying to the blue?
I guess because I don't die in every straight up gun fight and actually survive to have to get to the next circle? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Yeah I think you're a liar Ratsult2. Also those streamers aren't playing for views when they're doing cash prize tournaments.
Top 20 finishes are easy without ever winning a gun fight.
I wasn't being facetious with my question. Why are you dying to the blue? Are you shooting at squads you have no chance of killing and giving away your position? Are you shooting at random cars that drive past and giving away your position? Are you walking towards gunfire and giving away your position?
Why are you dying to the blue?
The answer isn't random circles. Think about it. Get back to me.
I'm terrible at this game, can't shoot for shit, die in every straight up gun fight.
And with 270 hours in game, I can't recall the last time I died to the blue.
My favorite jump spots are power plant, hospital, severny, lipovka. All edge areas.
Seriously, why are you dying to the blue?
I guess because I don't die in every straight up gun fight and actually survive to have to get to the next circle? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Yeah I think you're a liar Ratsult2. Also those streamers aren't playing for views when they're doing cash prize tournaments.
Top 20 finishes are easy without ever winning a gun fight.
I wasn't being facetious with my question. Why are you dying to the blue? Are you shooting at squads you have no chance of killing and giving away your position? Are you shooting at random cars that drive past and giving away your position? Are you walking towards gunfire and giving away your position?
Why are you dying to the blue?
The answer isn't random circles. Think about it. Get back to me.
Actually, sometimes it is random circles. Dropping at the lumber camp in the northwest corner, I've died to blue (and only blue) because the circle focuses down to Mylta Power (or, more likely, the southern-most beach on Military Base Island). Yes, I know full well to keep looting to a minimum (and when I say minimum, I mean at most ~1 minute searching a large house before legging it to the first circle) in those situations...but sometimes, RNG will just not be in your favor. That's the thing with RNG: some people will never see the scenarios that afflict others...because that's how randomness works.
However, that said, that's just the risk involved with dropping at the edge locations (or even near-edge locations). Don't want to have to spend the entire match running (or dying) to a circle? Drop somewhere a little more central.
Erlkönig on
| Origin/R*SC: Ein7919 | Battle.net: Erlkonig#1448 | XBL: Lexicanum | Steam: Der Erlkönig (the umlaut is important) |
He's not dying to the blue as in the pain field itself. He's indirectly dying because of the blue. He's not even dying to it often or even rarely. He's simply acknowledging that it can happen and no amount of player skill can 100% remove the threat of the circle. Because the randomness has the potential to rob you of time to loot and place you in an undergeared position for later engagements. It can force you into bad terrain, which can be especially troublesome if the stretch that you need to cross is overwatched by luckier players whose defensive position is securely within the next circle.
You can mitigate that risk with smart play, but the blue can screw over even the very best of players. Don't pretend that it can't.
He's not dying to the blue as in the pain field itself. He's indirectly dying because of the blue. He's not even dying to it often or even rarely. He's simply acknowledging that it can happen and no amount of player skill can 100% remove the threat of the circle. Because the randomness has the potential to rob you of time to loot and place you in an undergeared position for later engagements. It can force you into bad terrain, which can be especially troublesome if the stretch that you need to cross is overwatched by luckier players whose defensive position is securely within the next circle.
You can mitigate that risk with smart play, but the blue can screw over even the very best of players. Don't pretend that it can't.
Also this.
| Origin/R*SC: Ein7919 | Battle.net: Erlkonig#1448 | XBL: Lexicanum | Steam: Der Erlkönig (the umlaut is important) |
That's the crux of it. Not that the blue is an overly lethal force in and of itself. The blue killing players without the assistance of other players is rare. But the whims of the circle can place people in advantageous or disadvantageous positions which can easily make or break the outcome of an engagement between players of equal skill.
edit:
And while landing at the edge of the map can potentially have you racing across the entire island, the inverse is true as well. You could find yourself as one of the sole players who diverted to a fringe high loot zone, and find that the circle is herding players to your comfy kill box.
I mean yea, that is kind of what the entire game is based on. Half my posts on this topic have included that the blue can force bad fights, or force you to move across bad terrain. I even included the amount of deaths caused by blue damage itself.
This whole conversation was silly anyway, but if we were not talking about dying to blue itself, and we were talking about the blue forcing you somewhere that kills you, this conversation was even sillier.
If you want to play a game where do don't have to get ino fights where you might be at a disadvantage, then don't pick the game with random loot spawns and constricting circles?
There are plenty of FPS games with no random luck? But random luck is defiantly part of this game.
I would say it is one of the defining characteristics. And it seems weird to complain about how sometimes the circle forces you to fight people in cover, but not how sometimes the spawns force you to fight someone without armor or guns.
The whole argument was an issue of semantics and mutual stick in the mud mindsets that they're right and the other party must be wrong. What's dumb is that you all pretty much agree to the same thing if you would have expanded and clarified your statements.
Namely the root statement of this debacle was something along the lines of: "you reach a point where the blue never kills you anymore."
If you're talking about dying explicitly to the painfield without interaction with other players slowing you down and pinning you in place, then yes that's a true statement where most players quickly never "die" solely to the blue anymore outside of extreme edge cases.
However that same statement is false if you consider dying to the blue as dying because the encroaching painfield forced you into a disadvantaged engagement against a player that you ultimately lost. Situations that you could have avoided or played differently if you didn't have an encroaching wall limiting your options. The other player got the killing blow, but you can definitely attribute the wall to playing a major role in your demise.
The whole argument was an issue of semantics and mutual stick in the mud mindsets that they're right and the other party must be wrong. What's dumb is that you all pretty much agree to the same thing if you would have expanded and clarified your statements.
Namely the root statement of this debacle was something along the lines of: "you reach a point where the blue never kills you anymore."
If you're talking about dying explicitly to the painfield without interaction with other players slowing you down and pinning you in place, then yes that's a true statement where most players quickly never "die" solely to the blue anymore outside of extreme edge cases.
However that same statement is false if you consider dying to the blue as dying because the encroaching painfield forced you into a disadvantaged engagement against a player that you ultimately lost. Situations that you could have avoided or played differently if you didn't have an encroaching wall limiting your options.
Or if the final circles were a known variable. Like, instead of a randomly wandering center, the final circles placement is fixed at the center-point of the previous circle. This way you still get the ever shrinking play area, but the only person who has an advantage is the person in the very center of the final circles (which would then carry its own risks as everybody knows that location is "safe" from the blue as long as the circle exists).
EDIT - to clarify, I'm not suggesting that the circles be fixed throughout the match. Keep it randomized until the final, oh I dunno...three circles or so.
Erlkönig on
| Origin/R*SC: Ein7919 | Battle.net: Erlkonig#1448 | XBL: Lexicanum | Steam: Der Erlkönig (the umlaut is important) |
I agree, I'd rather fight an entrenched enemy and potentially lose a fight than lose because of bad circle luck.
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HonkHonk is this poster.Registered User, __BANNED USERSregular
The aim flinch when taking damage got weird, or buggy. I was just outside the circle because I had to take care of a guy before moving in, with four people left. I aim and take one shot, then take a damage flinch from the blue and I swear to god my entire sight jumped askew on the monitor. Like it jumped and stayed a centimeter to the left of the center of the monitor. Is that something that's supposed to happen?
The aim flinch when taking damage got weird, or buggy. I was just outside the circle because I had to take care of a guy before moving in, with four people left. I aim and take one shot, then take a damage flinch from the blue and I swear to god my entire sight jumped askew on the monitor. Like it jumped and stayed a centimeter to the left of the center of the monitor. Is that something that's supposed to happen?
I had a glorious game this evening where the third circle was centered east of Primorsk, a fairly substantial section of which was water. We arrived in a boat to find four other squads in boats driving around. One of my squadmates got excited and pulled up
After about thirty seconds various people in boats started singing along to it while exchanging fire and being shot at from people along the coastline whom I presume were envious of not having a boat of their own.
The last time I died to blue it was because I flipped my ride which I counted on to ride into the circle late, and then 2nd and 3rd were max distance (Power Plant to Gatka roughly)
The main thing about corner starts isn't the danger though, it's the boredom.
If have to run it gets real slow, and some paths (particularly from NW to SE) I fail to see cars a lot of the time.
Game the first: Drop into a populated area, win pistol fight, win fight with micro-uzi, pick up shotgun and choke, win fight with shotgun, pick up scar + mini14, feeling great, get out of the area, loot for a while, get another kill then..... die to someone I never saw.
Game the second: Drop into a less populated area, find an M16 with an 8x just lying there, find a shotgun for a nice in-close secondary, feeling good. Guy pulls up in a buggy and I land two perfect headshots on him, he jumps out behind cover, blue is coming so I go "I can get him, I'm at full health, shotgun, I'm good" and manage to have the shotgun nope the fuck out of hitting him with anything for two shots while he sprays in my direction and the game decides I died.
Went "Well, that's the two games that always happen, I'm good for the day"
I believe looking at potential places that the circle will go next and figuring out the best approach (With of course adjusting your plan depending) is part of the skill of the game. Good players are pretty good at it and are rarely put into a position where you're just screwed completely. Looking at the circle and saying "If the circle changes like this, I'm fucked. So how do I mitigate that before it happens?"
I think it is pretty rare to make all the right decisions and still get screwed by the circle.
I believe looking at potential places that the circle will go next and figuring out the best approach (With of course adjusting your plan depending) is part of the skill of the game. Good players are pretty good at it and are rarely put into a position where you're just screwed completely. Looking at the circle and saying "If the circle changes like this, I'm fucked. So how do I mitigate that before it happens?"
I think it is pretty rare to make all the right decisions and still get screwed by the circle.
yeah mitigating the circle is part of the strategy. It's a core aspect of the gameplay. And sometimes you get "circle fucked" where the circle forces you to move on open terrain against a well positioned team in a defensive structure, but that's part of the challenge. It adds excitement to the game.
Just like the RNG of the weapon spawns when you dive into a hot zone.
Losing to luck is exciting a couple times, after a while it begs the question if there's room for improvement in certain mechanics. The game has enough RNG without making the blue itself an actual enemy. Forcing you to fight out of position is fine, and half the purpose. But then give enough time to actually have that fight. And don't domino that bad luck multiple times in a row, ensuring that everyone on X side has to fight the uphill battle 3x in a row while everyone on Y doesn't have to move at all.
Heck there's an adjustment they could make alone, don't let circles pop the far side more than twice in a row.
Losing to luck is exciting a couple times, after a while it begs the question if there's room for improvement in certain mechanics. The game has enough RNG without making the blue itself an actual enemy. Forcing you to fight out of position is fine, and half the purpose. But then give enough time to actually have that fight. And don't domino that bad luck multiple times in a row, ensuring that everyone on X side has to fight the uphill battle 3x in a row while everyone on Y doesn't have to move at all.
Heck there's an adjustment they could make alone, don't let circles pop the far side more than twice in a row.
I guess the top squad players with an 80% win rate over 200+ games just get really, really lucky with the blue.
This website thinks I have 8 hours played. I have 118 in steam, which I'd wager is far more accurate since I don't leave it running. And I won a solo game! They've reset the tracking multiple times and this is probably a third party site?
Losing to luck is exciting a couple times, after a while it begs the question if there's room for improvement in certain mechanics. The game has enough RNG without making the blue itself an actual enemy. Forcing you to fight out of position is fine, and half the purpose. But then give enough time to actually have that fight. And don't domino that bad luck multiple times in a row, ensuring that everyone on X side has to fight the uphill battle 3x in a row while everyone on Y doesn't have to move at all.
Heck there's an adjustment they could make alone, don't let circles pop the far side more than twice in a row.
I guess the top squad players with an 80% win rate over 200+ games just get really, really lucky with the blue.
I mean again, you can see guys in the tournaments dieing to the blue. These are top players. I'm sure there's plenty of top guys who aren't streaming/in tournaments but it doesn't change the fact that the visible pros lose to bad circles too, even while making good decisions. Because things come up outside the player's control that throw wrenches in plans. Isn't that even like some basic sayings to combat? Everyone has a plan till blah blah blah.
This website thinks I have 8 hours played. I have 118 in steam, which I'd wager is far more accurate since I don't leave it running. And I won a solo game! They've reset the tracking multiple times and this is probably a third party site?
Losing to luck is exciting a couple times, after a while it begs the question if there's room for improvement in certain mechanics. The game has enough RNG without making the blue itself an actual enemy. Forcing you to fight out of position is fine, and half the purpose. But then give enough time to actually have that fight. And don't domino that bad luck multiple times in a row, ensuring that everyone on X side has to fight the uphill battle 3x in a row while everyone on Y doesn't have to move at all.
Heck there's an adjustment they could make alone, don't let circles pop the far side more than twice in a row.
I guess the top squad players with an 80% win rate over 200+ games just get really, really lucky with the blue.
I mean again, you can see guys in the tournaments dieing to the blue. These are top players. I'm sure there's plenty of top guys who aren't streaming/in tournaments but it doesn't change the fact that the visible pros lose to bad circles too, even while making good decisions. Because things come up outside the player's control that throw wrenches in plans. Isn't that even like some basic sayings to combat? Everyone has a plan till blah blah blah.
and I'm saying that I don't think any of us are 80% win rate and 99% top 10 rate, and if you can get that high over 200 games then there are ways you can avoid getting screwed over by the blue. Now, maybe you can't use this strategy as well when you are going against 24 of the top teams. For the majority of the playerbase, there is clearly something that you can do to avoid most deaths caused by the blue forcing you into a bad fight, or at least there is something you can work on to make this happen less.
Personally, I'd rather examine the decisions I made up to that point, to see if there was a better option. The group I play with started doing better when we looked closer at what happens if we are forced to move from spot X. Most of the time, we would rather make a riskier move now if it means we have better options if we are forced to move again. You see people make the opposite decision all the time. Houses that would be game winners if the circle stayed on them, instead they are forced to move across the very areas that made that house so good at the time. That is one of the reason I'm so adamant about my position in this discussion. We see people get screwed over like that and know that it could have been us cursing the blue, when we made the decision not to go to those houses in the first place.
Now, there are certainly times where the blue forced us into a bad fight and we can blame it on RNG. I think this happens a lot less than the average player thinks. Maybe this amount of RNG is unacceptable to you, I don't know. I just haven't heard of a way to fix it without making each game a lot longer.
I can think of all kinds of ways to change circle times while keeping overall match length. In fact I'd say keeping in the confines of a time limit helps add structure to brainstorming. Some off the very top of my head:
Experiment with multiple circle layers, with differing damages. (why does it have to be 2?)
Experiment with "jumping" circles, instead of constants. (this could be combined with circle layers. one constant for a "reduced" damage and one that closes in jumps at regular damage. Effectively creating leeways/the ability to get ahead momentarily)
Reduce numbers of circles, or even increase the number but change times/damages (faster weaker circles, with less variation in position).
Change circle shapes.
Probably easiest and already mentioned, shaving time off specific circles (especially the first) and reallocating.
Obviously those ideas all need tweaking in themselves, but calling it quits on circle development now seems lazy. This is the time to experiment.
I had a duo game last night where I was on fire. Dropped into Georgopol crates as we are wont to do, and I quickly found a Mini-14. Got 3 kills, then my partner faced 2 enemies in front of him. Luckily I was already to their flank, and they were focusing on him. I knocked one guy between some crates, and his partner ran for cover around the left side. My partner was knocked and killed by the guy that ran, so I chased him down. He was picking up his buddy, so I managed to finish him off for 2 kills.
Then, I grabbed a buggy and started heading toward the circle. I saw a guy pulling out of a complex in a Dacia--the partner of a guy I gunned down before my partner was killed--whom we saw running in that direction. I drove at the Dacia head-on and quickly swapped to the back seat of the buggy and got the guy in the Dacia before he was able to react. Unfortunately, his body was stuck in the car, so it messed with my camera and I was forced to keep the buggy.
I made it to some trees and saw another duo roll up on a shack about 200m away (and a couple others drove past in a uaz). I traded shots with them, knocked them once or twice, but couldn't finish them. Also a crate landed nearby, so a third duo rolled up on the crate, and I was able to get a few shots at them, but wasn't able to knock either and didn't take anything in return from them.
I finally died because I was out of healing and took a greedy shot at a guy outrunning the circle. I was able to knock him, but when I moved in for the kill, his partner turned back and got me. At that point, my partner had been out of the game for 10 or so minutes, so I was looking for fights and expecting to die. I ended with 6 kills on the Mini-14, and it was a game I was happy with. I rarely use/find a Mini-14, and I don't think I've ever gotten any kills with one before that game, certainly not 6.
For the majority of the playerbase, there is clearly something that you can do to avoid most deaths caused by the blue forcing you into a bad fight, or at least there is something you can work on to make this happen less.
The game is literally the blue forcing everyone to fight in a series of randomly chosen smaller areas. The blue is always forcing someone to move from x bigger space to y smaller space and forcing player encounters. The smaller the circle, the smaller the options and the more random it is. The later into the circles you get, the less you can plan for good repositioning.
The best players in the world overcome the randomness by superior shooting ability in bad positions vs players in good positions, not by some ability to predict circle locations.
The arrogance and self back patting on this topic is getting boring, Ratsult2.
I'm normally the weakest member of our group but last night I had a kill streak where I eliminated an entire team. That was fun. But the reason I'm posting is:
Did you know that when you jump off a high place and the landing animation is playing... you can shoot? I did not know that, I jumped off a building and landed next to the guy breaching it and was totally surprised when my panicked mouse clicking actually shot the dude (in third person) even though my animation showed me landing with hands on the ground. So, you learn something new everyday.
The best players in the world overcome the randomness by superior shooting ability in bad positions vs players in good positions, not by some ability to predict circle locations
I agree it's not by predicting the circle, but I don't think aiming ability is their strong suit. In public games, yes, that'll often carry them even if they make wildly bad decisions, but in tournaments the best players in the world are playing against others with the same aiming skill.
I think the bigger factor is that players who are very good can look at the possible positions of the next circle and plan for best vs. worst case outcomes. "If the circle spawns over there, we'll be screwed. We should move to a place where repositioning to an unfavorable circle position will be less dangerous."
For instance, taking a ridge instead of staying in superior cover in a house or by a grove of trees, because the ridge has easier access to more of the next circle's possible spawns.
That sort of decision making, where you reduce the total risk you have in an unfavorable restriction, is what reduces the randomness of the circle. Two players could easily climb to roughly the same rank where one of them is a far superior shooter, and one of them is better at assessing the next moves in an uncertain scenario. One of them has favorable or slightly unfavorable situations much more often, and the other is more capable of turning profoundly unfavorable situations into victory (even though the odds are still against them).
The best players in the world overcome the randomness by superior shooting ability in bad positions vs players in good positions, not by some ability to predict circle locations
I agree it's not by predicting the circle, but I don't think aiming ability is their strong suit. In public games, yes, that'll often carry them even if they make wildly bad decisions, but in tournaments the best players in the world are playing against others with the same aiming skill.
I think the bigger factor is that players who are very good can look at the possible positions of the next circle and plan for best vs. worst case outcomes. "If the circle spawns over there, we'll be screwed. We should move to a place where repositioning to an unfavorable circle position will be less dangerous."
For instance, taking a ridge instead of staying in superior cover in a house or by a grove of trees, because the ridge has easier access to more of the next circle's possible spawns.
That sort of decision making, where you reduce the total risk you have in an unfavorable restriction, is what reduces the randomness of the circle. Two players could easily climb to roughly the same rank where one of them is a far superior shooter, and one of them is better at assessing the next moves in an uncertain scenario. One of them has favorable or slightly unfavorable situations much more often, and the other is more capable of turning profoundly unfavorable situations into victory (even though the odds are still against them).
No one is arguing that planning for good positioning as much as possible isn't going to increase your odds of success, nor should they.
The only argument has been in response to statements that create non-existent vacuum scenarios in which circle mechanics and player interactions don't exist or impact movement during a round and that people just need to learn to stop doing it wrong. It's pretty much been borderline trolling.
If you want to reference the best players and tournaments, the PUBG Invitational supports that they all pretty much avoid each other as long as possible until the circle forces them to engage just as I described previously.
If you want to reference the best players and tournaments, the PUBG Invitational supports that they all pretty much avoid each other as long as possible until the circle forces them to engage just as I described previously.
That's true, but that's also a flaw in the tournament system. Kills are not worth as much as they should be, which is why the winning strategy is, apparently, to sit in the blue with healing items until you die close to the top every match. To be more interesting to players, but more importantly viewers, kills should be of higher value to encourage people to take risks in order to reap significant rewards. But, that's my 2 cents. I think probably they've got the same idea but we'll see how it shakes out.
Also,
No one is arguing that planning for good positioning as much as possible isn't going to increase your odds of success, nor should they.
The only argument has been in response to statements that create non-existent vacuum scenarios in which circle mechanics and player interactions don't exist or impact movement during a round and that people just need to learn to stop doing it wrong. It's pretty much been borderline trolling.
There's been a lot of talking past each other. When people say things like "you stop dying to the blue," one thing they mean is that you no longer find yourself trapped outside of the circle and then die. The reason people think this is what's being argued is because a lot of times those arguments come with statements like "if you don't find a car" or things like that, which suggests that it's moving long distances to a circle which has spawned far from you that kills you. In fairness, the argument has progressed past this point.
Ash of Yew's opinion, specifically, seems to have evolved from the aforementioned opinion (or at least, how I understood it) to simply wanting a change in mechanics to make it less likely to have a circle spawn on the opposite end as you and force you into fights you don't have time to execute. Part of that is valid, it's not great that the circle can enclose prior to the time it takes to conclude a firefight or successfully breach a building. However, changing the circle mechanics to be more predictable would probably end up as a bad change overall, considering the unpredictability of the circle is the primary factor by which the last 5-7 minutes of the game are uncertain, instead of handing them to the first team to get the most secure position in or near that final area.
There's also the idea that when you say "dying to the blue" you mean the blue circle forcing you into a place where you're highly likely to die, which, yes does happen. But that's the situation I mention above. That will always be possible, but with greater decision making abilities it will happen less often to you, to the point where it can be very rare that a circle forces you to go somewhere that dangerous. Of course, you can still die even if it's not a certain death. The circle forcing you to relocate will always be dangerous, but I think any reasonable person would agree that's kind of the point of the circle, it makes things dangerous.
Ratsult said:
For the majority of the playerbase, there is clearly something that you can do to avoid most deaths caused by the blue forcing you into a bad fight, or at least there is something you can work on to make this happen less.
Moving at an appropriate time and making decisions that benefit your future positioning is what he's talking about, which we've agreed are the things that increase your odds of success. He does say in this sentence you quoted that you avoid "most deaths" so that seems reasonable to me.
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I guess because I don't die in every straight up gun fight and actually survive to have to get to the next circle? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Yeah I think you're a liar Ratsult2. Also those streamers aren't playing for views when they're doing cash prize tournaments.
Top 20 finishes are easy without ever winning a gun fight.
I wasn't being facetious with my question. Why are you dying to the blue? Are you shooting at squads you have no chance of killing and giving away your position? Are you shooting at random cars that drive past and giving away your position? Are you walking towards gunfire and giving away your position?
Why are you dying to the blue?
The answer isn't random circles. Think about it. Get back to me.
Actually, sometimes it is random circles. Dropping at the lumber camp in the northwest corner, I've died to blue (and only blue) because the circle focuses down to Mylta Power (or, more likely, the southern-most beach on Military Base Island). Yes, I know full well to keep looting to a minimum (and when I say minimum, I mean at most ~1 minute searching a large house before legging it to the first circle) in those situations...but sometimes, RNG will just not be in your favor. That's the thing with RNG: some people will never see the scenarios that afflict others...because that's how randomness works.
However, that said, that's just the risk involved with dropping at the edge locations (or even near-edge locations). Don't want to have to spend the entire match running (or dying) to a circle? Drop somewhere a little more central.
You can mitigate that risk with smart play, but the blue can screw over even the very best of players. Don't pretend that it can't.
Armchair: 4098-3704-2012
Also this.
edit:
And while landing at the edge of the map can potentially have you racing across the entire island, the inverse is true as well. You could find yourself as one of the sole players who diverted to a fringe high loot zone, and find that the circle is herding players to your comfy kill box.
Armchair: 4098-3704-2012
Yes.
It does do that.
This whole conversation was silly anyway, but if we were not talking about dying to blue itself, and we were talking about the blue forcing you somewhere that kills you, this conversation was even sillier.
If you want to play a game where do don't have to get ino fights where you might be at a disadvantage, then don't pick the game with random loot spawns and constricting circles?
There are plenty of FPS games with no random luck? But random luck is defiantly part of this game.
I would say it is one of the defining characteristics. And it seems weird to complain about how sometimes the circle forces you to fight people in cover, but not how sometimes the spawns force you to fight someone without armor or guns.
Namely the root statement of this debacle was something along the lines of: "you reach a point where the blue never kills you anymore."
If you're talking about dying explicitly to the painfield without interaction with other players slowing you down and pinning you in place, then yes that's a true statement where most players quickly never "die" solely to the blue anymore outside of extreme edge cases.
However that same statement is false if you consider dying to the blue as dying because the encroaching painfield forced you into a disadvantaged engagement against a player that you ultimately lost. Situations that you could have avoided or played differently if you didn't have an encroaching wall limiting your options. The other player got the killing blow, but you can definitely attribute the wall to playing a major role in your demise.
Armchair: 4098-3704-2012
Or if the final circles were a known variable. Like, instead of a randomly wandering center, the final circles placement is fixed at the center-point of the previous circle. This way you still get the ever shrinking play area, but the only person who has an advantage is the person in the very center of the final circles (which would then carry its own risks as everybody knows that location is "safe" from the blue as long as the circle exists).
EDIT - to clarify, I'm not suggesting that the circles be fixed throughout the match. Keep it randomized until the final, oh I dunno...three circles or so.
Yeah, it's a current bug or wonky feature.
on his phone and started blaring it in all chat.
After about thirty seconds various people in boats started singing along to it while exchanging fire and being shot at from people along the coastline whom I presume were envious of not having a boat of their own.
This game never gets old.
The main thing about corner starts isn't the danger though, it's the boredom.
If have to run it gets real slow, and some paths (particularly from NW to SE) I fail to see cars a lot of the time.
Game the first: Drop into a populated area, win pistol fight, win fight with micro-uzi, pick up shotgun and choke, win fight with shotgun, pick up scar + mini14, feeling great, get out of the area, loot for a while, get another kill then..... die to someone I never saw.
Game the second: Drop into a less populated area, find an M16 with an 8x just lying there, find a shotgun for a nice in-close secondary, feeling good. Guy pulls up in a buggy and I land two perfect headshots on him, he jumps out behind cover, blue is coming so I go "I can get him, I'm at full health, shotgun, I'm good" and manage to have the shotgun nope the fuck out of hitting him with anything for two shots while he sprays in my direction and the game decides I died.
Went "Well, that's the two games that always happen, I'm good for the day"
I think it is pretty rare to make all the right decisions and still get screwed by the circle.
https://pubg.me/player/sniperguy
yeah mitigating the circle is part of the strategy. It's a core aspect of the gameplay. And sometimes you get "circle fucked" where the circle forces you to move on open terrain against a well positioned team in a defensive structure, but that's part of the challenge. It adds excitement to the game.
Just like the RNG of the weapon spawns when you dive into a hot zone.
Heck there's an adjustment they could make alone, don't let circles pop the far side more than twice in a row.
I guess the top squad players with an 80% win rate over 200+ games just get really, really lucky with the blue.
This website thinks I have 8 hours played. I have 118 in steam, which I'd wager is far more accurate since I don't leave it running. And I won a solo game! They've reset the tracking multiple times and this is probably a third party site?
I've got a pretty good handle on how to do it. I never said I'm good at actually pulling it off.
I mean again, you can see guys in the tournaments dieing to the blue. These are top players. I'm sure there's plenty of top guys who aren't streaming/in tournaments but it doesn't change the fact that the visible pros lose to bad circles too, even while making good decisions. Because things come up outside the player's control that throw wrenches in plans. Isn't that even like some basic sayings to combat? Everyone has a plan till blah blah blah.
Maybe you've got more play time on the previous seasons? They did change the circles at one point to make them far more random/further askew.
Congrats on your win.
and I'm saying that I don't think any of us are 80% win rate and 99% top 10 rate, and if you can get that high over 200 games then there are ways you can avoid getting screwed over by the blue. Now, maybe you can't use this strategy as well when you are going against 24 of the top teams. For the majority of the playerbase, there is clearly something that you can do to avoid most deaths caused by the blue forcing you into a bad fight, or at least there is something you can work on to make this happen less.
Personally, I'd rather examine the decisions I made up to that point, to see if there was a better option. The group I play with started doing better when we looked closer at what happens if we are forced to move from spot X. Most of the time, we would rather make a riskier move now if it means we have better options if we are forced to move again. You see people make the opposite decision all the time. Houses that would be game winners if the circle stayed on them, instead they are forced to move across the very areas that made that house so good at the time. That is one of the reason I'm so adamant about my position in this discussion. We see people get screwed over like that and know that it could have been us cursing the blue, when we made the decision not to go to those houses in the first place.
Now, there are certainly times where the blue forced us into a bad fight and we can blame it on RNG. I think this happens a lot less than the average player thinks. Maybe this amount of RNG is unacceptable to you, I don't know. I just haven't heard of a way to fix it without making each game a lot longer.
^ Just teasing with that one, both of them were knocked out first =P
Experiment with multiple circle layers, with differing damages. (why does it have to be 2?)
Experiment with "jumping" circles, instead of constants. (this could be combined with circle layers. one constant for a "reduced" damage and one that closes in jumps at regular damage. Effectively creating leeways/the ability to get ahead momentarily)
Reduce numbers of circles, or even increase the number but change times/damages (faster weaker circles, with less variation in position).
Change circle shapes.
Probably easiest and already mentioned, shaving time off specific circles (especially the first) and reallocating.
Obviously those ideas all need tweaking in themselves, but calling it quits on circle development now seems lazy. This is the time to experiment.
Any ways this horse is beaten past dead.
Then, I grabbed a buggy and started heading toward the circle. I saw a guy pulling out of a complex in a Dacia--the partner of a guy I gunned down before my partner was killed--whom we saw running in that direction. I drove at the Dacia head-on and quickly swapped to the back seat of the buggy and got the guy in the Dacia before he was able to react. Unfortunately, his body was stuck in the car, so it messed with my camera and I was forced to keep the buggy.
I made it to some trees and saw another duo roll up on a shack about 200m away (and a couple others drove past in a uaz). I traded shots with them, knocked them once or twice, but couldn't finish them. Also a crate landed nearby, so a third duo rolled up on the crate, and I was able to get a few shots at them, but wasn't able to knock either and didn't take anything in return from them.
I finally died because I was out of healing and took a greedy shot at a guy outrunning the circle. I was able to knock him, but when I moved in for the kill, his partner turned back and got me. At that point, my partner had been out of the game for 10 or so minutes, so I was looking for fights and expecting to die. I ended with 6 kills on the Mini-14, and it was a game I was happy with. I rarely use/find a Mini-14, and I don't think I've ever gotten any kills with one before that game, certainly not 6.
The game is literally the blue forcing everyone to fight in a series of randomly chosen smaller areas. The blue is always forcing someone to move from x bigger space to y smaller space and forcing player encounters. The smaller the circle, the smaller the options and the more random it is. The later into the circles you get, the less you can plan for good repositioning.
The best players in the world overcome the randomness by superior shooting ability in bad positions vs players in good positions, not by some ability to predict circle locations.
The arrogance and self back patting on this topic is getting boring, Ratsult2.
Did you know that when you jump off a high place and the landing animation is playing... you can shoot? I did not know that, I jumped off a building and landed next to the guy breaching it and was totally surprised when my panicked mouse clicking actually shot the dude (in third person) even though my animation showed me landing with hands on the ground. So, you learn something new everyday.
I agree it's not by predicting the circle, but I don't think aiming ability is their strong suit. In public games, yes, that'll often carry them even if they make wildly bad decisions, but in tournaments the best players in the world are playing against others with the same aiming skill.
I think the bigger factor is that players who are very good can look at the possible positions of the next circle and plan for best vs. worst case outcomes. "If the circle spawns over there, we'll be screwed. We should move to a place where repositioning to an unfavorable circle position will be less dangerous."
For instance, taking a ridge instead of staying in superior cover in a house or by a grove of trees, because the ridge has easier access to more of the next circle's possible spawns.
That sort of decision making, where you reduce the total risk you have in an unfavorable restriction, is what reduces the randomness of the circle. Two players could easily climb to roughly the same rank where one of them is a far superior shooter, and one of them is better at assessing the next moves in an uncertain scenario. One of them has favorable or slightly unfavorable situations much more often, and the other is more capable of turning profoundly unfavorable situations into victory (even though the odds are still against them).
No one is arguing that planning for good positioning as much as possible isn't going to increase your odds of success, nor should they.
The only argument has been in response to statements that create non-existent vacuum scenarios in which circle mechanics and player interactions don't exist or impact movement during a round and that people just need to learn to stop doing it wrong. It's pretty much been borderline trolling.
If you want to reference the best players and tournaments, the PUBG Invitational supports that they all pretty much avoid each other as long as possible until the circle forces them to engage just as I described previously.
That's true, but that's also a flaw in the tournament system. Kills are not worth as much as they should be, which is why the winning strategy is, apparently, to sit in the blue with healing items until you die close to the top every match. To be more interesting to players, but more importantly viewers, kills should be of higher value to encourage people to take risks in order to reap significant rewards. But, that's my 2 cents. I think probably they've got the same idea but we'll see how it shakes out.
Also,
There's been a lot of talking past each other. When people say things like "you stop dying to the blue," one thing they mean is that you no longer find yourself trapped outside of the circle and then die. The reason people think this is what's being argued is because a lot of times those arguments come with statements like "if you don't find a car" or things like that, which suggests that it's moving long distances to a circle which has spawned far from you that kills you. In fairness, the argument has progressed past this point.
Ash of Yew's opinion, specifically, seems to have evolved from the aforementioned opinion (or at least, how I understood it) to simply wanting a change in mechanics to make it less likely to have a circle spawn on the opposite end as you and force you into fights you don't have time to execute. Part of that is valid, it's not great that the circle can enclose prior to the time it takes to conclude a firefight or successfully breach a building. However, changing the circle mechanics to be more predictable would probably end up as a bad change overall, considering the unpredictability of the circle is the primary factor by which the last 5-7 minutes of the game are uncertain, instead of handing them to the first team to get the most secure position in or near that final area.
There's also the idea that when you say "dying to the blue" you mean the blue circle forcing you into a place where you're highly likely to die, which, yes does happen. But that's the situation I mention above. That will always be possible, but with greater decision making abilities it will happen less often to you, to the point where it can be very rare that a circle forces you to go somewhere that dangerous. Of course, you can still die even if it's not a certain death. The circle forcing you to relocate will always be dangerous, but I think any reasonable person would agree that's kind of the point of the circle, it makes things dangerous.
Ratsult said:
Moving at an appropriate time and making decisions that benefit your future positioning is what he's talking about, which we've agreed are the things that increase your odds of success. He does say in this sentence you quoted that you avoid "most deaths" so that seems reasonable to me.
http://steamcommunity.com/games/578080/announcements/detail/1469721989542086360
How will I know who the best hackers in the world are?
Which explains why I can unload a pistol at a guy and not even have them turn around.