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[LGBT] and friends: We All Float Down Here

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    TubeTube Registered User admin
    There's probably not an urgent need to legislate this unless the person affected has requested help with the matter.

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    KwoaruKwoaru Confident Smirk Flawless Golden PecsRegistered User regular

    It looks like they just don't define the characters gender rather than a character who identifies as non-binary?

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    WeedLordVegetaWeedLordVegeta Registered User regular
    Kwoaru wrote: »

    It looks like they just don't define the characters gender rather than a character who identifies as non-binary?

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    TankHammerTankHammer Atlanta Ghostbuster Atlanta, GARegistered User regular
    Those screenshots make it look like an omage to ICO.

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    Magic PinkMagic Pink Tur-Boner-Fed Registered User regular
    Magic Pink wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Tox wrote: »
    Tbh if my landlord let someone in my apartment without me present or having consented ahead of time there would be absolute hell to pay.

    It is almost certainly in your lease that they can do that, especially for emergencies.

    I doubt it; that's against the law in most states. you HAVE to give 24 hours notice.

    if its an emergency then you need emergency personnel present when you do it

    Law or no, they're not going to just let a water main leak go for 24 hours until you consent and, quite frankly, it would be bullshit if they did. One person's privacy rights don't override the safety or property of the entire building. If you're the person whose apartment is being leaked into would YOU be willing to wait 24 hours because they couldn't get permission from your neighbor to access their apartment?

    Dude, I'm just saying what the law states in my city. I did not say that it made sense or was a good idea.

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    OmnipotentBagelOmnipotentBagel floof Registered User regular
    Kwoaru wrote: »

    It looks like they just don't define the characters gender rather than a character who identifies as non-binary?

    I feel like that's kind of splitting hairs in a way that doesn't really advance the discourse. Especially since the creative director is quoted in that very article as saying “And this is very important. It’s supposed to be about childhood, and childhood has no gender.” They're not just "not defining" the gender. They're intentionally, deliberately not gendering them.

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    KwoaruKwoaru Confident Smirk Flawless Golden PecsRegistered User regular
    edited May 2017
    Kwoaru wrote: »

    It looks like they just don't define the characters gender rather than a character who identifies as non-binary?


    That statement doesn't really preclude what I said though

    edit but that's splitting hairs I guess, anyway I think its a cool thing even if all they're doing is deliberately choosing not to define the characters gender

    Kwoaru on
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    TankHammerTankHammer Atlanta Ghostbuster Atlanta, GARegistered User regular
    Kwoaru wrote: »

    It looks like they just don't define the characters gender rather than a character who identifies as non-binary?

    I feel like that's kind of splitting hairs in a way that doesn't really advance the discourse. Especially since the creative director is quoted in that very article as saying “And this is very important. It’s supposed to be about childhood, and childhood has no gender.” They're not just "not defining" the gender. They're intentionally, deliberately not gendering them.

    There is a notable difference between deliberately not specifying a character's gender or leaving it up to the player and writing a character that identifies as non-binary, agender, genderqueer, etc. One allows the audience to allow their own take on a character (which is still a good thing) the other is actual, deliberate representation of people not often given representation in media (which is more meaningful).

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    WeedLordVegetaWeedLordVegeta Registered User regular
    Kwoaru wrote: »
    Kwoaru wrote: »

    It looks like they just don't define the characters gender rather than a character who identifies as non-binary?


    That statement doesn't really preclude what I said though
    it does though

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    KwoaruKwoaru Confident Smirk Flawless Golden PecsRegistered User regular
    edited May 2017

    Kwoaru on
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    OmnipotentBagelOmnipotentBagel floof Registered User regular
    I think we're arguing over semantics at this point. Non-binary can be a specific gender identity but it can also just literally mean "not binary". Like the protagonist of this game is not defined on the gender binary and should be referred to as they/them.

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    WyvernWyvern Registered User regular
    edited May 2017
    I just realized that Kat wasn't involved in the actual game, so I looked up a statement by Raul Rubio, the creative director:
    The kid, wrapped in scarves and white robes, is designed purposefully to be genderless. “And this is very important,” Rubio says. “It’s supposed to be about childhood, and childhood has no gender.” Though promotional material and the game’s website gender the child as male, Rubio stresses the universality and importance of a genderless protagonist. “For us,” Rubio says, “[RiME] is about emotions. Emotions are universal. Human emotions are universal. For us it’s not about what makes us different. It’s what makes us the same.”
    Which, like...

    1) I'm not so sure about childhood having no gender. I guess I, personally, didn't have a real sense of gender identity until I was like 12 or 13 and started getting dysphoric. But that's not universal. Modern America has a million social pressures forcing gendered norms on kids. Although that's not true of all cultures and time periods...

    2) It seems like a copout to gender the kid as male in official promotional materials and then act like you're doing something revolutionary with gender.

    3) I do not get the impression from that last statement that the guy has any vested interest in exploring the unique experiences or challenges of a nonbinary-identifying kid.

    I dunno, I'd have to see the game I guess.

    Wyvern on
    Switch: SW-2431-2728-9604 || 3DS: 0817-4948-1650
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    WeedLordVegetaWeedLordVegeta Registered User regular
    it definitely seems like there was a mixup with the promo material, yeah

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    Johnny ChopsockyJohnny Chopsocky Scootaloo! We have to cook! Grillin' HaysenburgersRegistered User regular
    Never
    Ever
    Trust the promotional department to get anything right about a game other than "This is a game. These are screenshots. This is a game."

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    Steam ID XBL: JohnnyChopsocky PSN:Stud_Beefpile WiiU:JohnnyChopsocky
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    SegSeg Registered User regular
    Never
    Ever
    Trust the promotional department to get anything right about a game other than "This is a game. These are screenshots. This is a game."

    "See this really cool looking thing that spoils the plot of the game, we are going to use that in all of our adverts."

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    TofystedethTofystedeth Registered User regular
    Wyvern wrote: »
    I just realized that Kat wasn't involved in the actual game, so I looked up a statement by Raul Rubio, the creative director:
    The kid, wrapped in scarves and white robes, is designed purposefully to be genderless. “And this is very important,” Rubio says. “It’s supposed to be about childhood, and childhood has no gender.” Though promotional material and the game’s website gender the child as male, Rubio stresses the universality and importance of a genderless protagonist. “For us,” Rubio says, “[RiME] is about emotions. Emotions are universal. Human emotions are universal. For us it’s not about what makes us different. It’s what makes us the same.”
    Which, like...

    1) I'm not so sure about childhood having no gender. I guess I, personally, didn't have a real sense of gender identity until I was like 12 or 13 and started getting dysphoric. But that's not universal. Modern America has a million social pressures forcing gendered norms on kids. Although that's not true of all cultures and time periods...

    2) It seems like a copout to gender the kid as male in official promotional materials and then act like you're doing something revolutionary with gender.

    3) I do not get the impression from that last statement that the guy has any vested interest in exploring the unique experiences or challenges of a nonbinary-identifying kid.

    I dunno, I'd have to see the game I guess.

    I think they aren't trying to say "It's about a child and children don't have genders" , but "it's about Childhood as a concept, which is not gendered. "

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    WeedLordVegetaWeedLordVegeta Registered User regular
    for what it's worth, is made by a spanish developer, which is a very gendered language, so there could have been a simple mixup in translation for promo

    but that's also fairly baseless speculation

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    WeedLordVegetaWeedLordVegeta Registered User regular
    as a non-binary person, i will say it's pretty frustrating to have representation challenged here in this, the lgbt thread, even if said representation is admittedly surface level

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    WyvernWyvern Registered User regular
    Wyvern wrote: »
    I just realized that Kat wasn't involved in the actual game, so I looked up a statement by Raul Rubio, the creative director:
    The kid, wrapped in scarves and white robes, is designed purposefully to be genderless. “And this is very important,” Rubio says. “It’s supposed to be about childhood, and childhood has no gender.” Though promotional material and the game’s website gender the child as male, Rubio stresses the universality and importance of a genderless protagonist. “For us,” Rubio says, “[RiME] is about emotions. Emotions are universal. Human emotions are universal. For us it’s not about what makes us different. It’s what makes us the same.”
    Which, like...

    1) I'm not so sure about childhood having no gender. I guess I, personally, didn't have a real sense of gender identity until I was like 12 or 13 and started getting dysphoric. But that's not universal. Modern America has a million social pressures forcing gendered norms on kids. Although that's not true of all cultures and time periods...

    2) It seems like a copout to gender the kid as male in official promotional materials and then act like you're doing something revolutionary with gender.

    3) I do not get the impression from that last statement that the guy has any vested interest in exploring the unique experiences or challenges of a nonbinary-identifying kid.

    I dunno, I'd have to see the game I guess.

    I think they aren't trying to say "It's about a child and children don't have genders" , but "it's about Childhood as a concept, which is not gendered. "
    Do you think a child with an explicit nonbinary or trans gender identity would agree that childhood has no gender? Or that the emotional nature of childhood is universal?

    Maybe I'm just a pessimist but I feel like the director's statement could be interpereted as nonbinary erasure at least as easily as nonbinary representation.

    Switch: SW-2431-2728-9604 || 3DS: 0817-4948-1650
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    TubeTube Registered User admin
    I think they've accidentally made it sound like it's trying to do more than it is. I read it as simply a child of gender ambiguous appearance that you can make your own decisions about. I don't think it's actually supposed to be about the struggles of a child who identifies as non-binary, I think it's more along the lines of "what if we just don't assign a pronoun to Link and let people play them as whatever they want."

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    PsykomaPsykoma Registered User regular
    Like if undertale said their character was nonbinary.

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    WeedLordVegetaWeedLordVegeta Registered User regular
    Tube wrote: »
    I think they've accidentally made it sound like it's trying to do more than it is. I read it as simply a child of gender ambiguous appearance that you can make your own decisions about. I don't think it's actually supposed to be about the struggles of a child who identifies as non-binary, I think it's more along the lines of "what if we just don't assign a pronoun to Link and let people play them as whatever they want."
    yeah pronouns being they/them does not prevent an nb person from feeling masc or femme, though it may keep them from fully identifying with those terms

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    PsycohedPsycohed On a Fool's ErrandRegistered User regular
    Wait, they gave you your pills the same day as the blood work? I thought you have to have the results come back first before they'll prescribe HRT, or does it work differently if you have to get a letter instead of informed consent?

    Actually, I didn't get blood work done until I'd been on HRT for a month. There was no initial blood test. I asked, of course. "Hey don't I need to get blood drawn?" And he kind looked at me and rolled his eyes. "All it's going to tell us is that your T is way too high and your E is way too low. And we already know that." He said I could if I wanted to, but that it wasn't necessary and that he was going to give me my prescription regardless.

    So. Yeah. All he gave a shit about was that letter from my therapist. Well, that and my feelings, which admittedly is pretty baller of him.

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    TubeTube Registered User admin
    You don't need to test liver function and things like that, to get a baseline?

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    PsycohedPsycohed On a Fool's ErrandRegistered User regular
    Since I don't have any other obvious health problems or any history with liver trouble, apparently they don't give a shit. He gave me a heads up about "if this, this, or this happens, discontinue use, contact us."

    I don't think I mentioned, but they started me on 100 mg of spironolactone and 2 mg of estradiol. So, maybe he wasn't sweating it because of the dosage?

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    Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    Psycohed wrote: »
    Since I don't have any other obvious health problems or any history with liver trouble, apparently they don't give a shit. He gave me a heads up about "if this, this, or this happens, discontinue use, contact us."

    I don't think I mentioned, but they started me on 100 mg of spironolactone and 2 mg of estradiol. So, maybe he wasn't sweating it because of the dosage?

    I've started and stopped a shitton of specifically liver-toxic drugs over the years. They never had me do bloodwork before I started taking the medication, unless insurance required it. Always after the first dose and during the treatment.

    And this is including Spiro for some reason ( I have no idea why I was taking it to be honest ).

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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    ArtoriaArtoria Registered User regular
    edited May 2017
    I think I need a few days away from work and everything else because I've been terribly depressed.

    I've been working a lot of late nights.

    There has been a lot of anti-trans talk from my coworkers in reference to the Texas legislature's bathroom bills. I think one of my gay co-workers suspect something too. He's been the most vocal about it around me especially since I've been growing my hair out. Saying how trans folks make things hard for the LGB community. That makes me sad because I really thought he was a nice guy until this and thought he might be an ally when I come out at work.

    I've been unfriending a lot of people including family on Facebook because them posting "no men in women's bathroom"

    The only clinic that I've fond who has experience with HRT and is accepting new patients has a 6 month waiting period for your first appointment.

    I've just felt like doing nothing when I go home other than sleep and try to get drunk on weekends.

    To be honest if it wasn't for my pupper I think i'd be feeling worse than I am.

    Sorry to be such a downer but I really had no other place to vent.

    Artoria on
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    mori1972mori1972 FF14: Rhotfyr Thosinmharsyn (Y)UKRegistered User regular
    Sorry to hear that @Artoria

    Also, that gay co-worker is a shit heel of the highest order.

    It's all saltwater these days:
    Ocean, tears and heartbreak soup
    Half alive in a whitecap foam
    Half in love with a white half moon
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    TubeTube Registered User admin
    I feel like that kind of talk is inappropriate for the workplace.

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    MetalbourneMetalbourne Inside a cluster b personalityRegistered User regular
    Tube wrote: »
    I feel like that kind of talk is inappropriate for the workplace.

    lets hope the guy working in hr feels the same way

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    GundiGundi Serious Bismuth Registered User regular
    Someone should remind that coworker that people don't exist for his convenience.

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    Moth 13Moth 13 Registered User regular
    Psykoma wrote: »
    Like if undertale said their character was nonbinary.

    Are they not?

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    mori1972mori1972 FF14: Rhotfyr Thosinmharsyn (Y)UKRegistered User regular
    Also, I just wanted to add...
    Artoria wrote: »
    ...Sorry to be such a downer but I really had no other place to vent.

    Please don't ever feel like you have to apologise for venting this stuff. There are precious few safe spaces left, and as folks are starting to feel more and more like the world is closing in around them, having somewhere to get this stuff off your chest is more important than ever

    Cue supportive hug/hair tousle/handshake/wave/nod/smile*

    *delete appropriate based on personal space/physical contact preferences

    It's all saltwater these days:
    Ocean, tears and heartbreak soup
    Half alive in a whitecap foam
    Half in love with a white half moon
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    GundiGundi Serious Bismuth Registered User regular
    Moth 13 wrote: »
    Psykoma wrote: »
    Like if undertale said their character was nonbinary.

    Are they not?

    It is not ever mentioned. Almost no character ever refers to the main character with gendered pronouns.

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    Mx. QuillMx. Quill I now prefer "Myr. Quill", actually... {They/Them}Registered User regular
    Yeah, it seems familiar to my workplace, which claims to be LGBTQ-friendly but of which refused to let my one (now former) trans coworker change anything from their deadname.

    North Carolina's one of the worst places to be openly LGBTQ, hence why I'm keeping quiet about it.

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    OmnipotentBagelOmnipotentBagel floof Registered User regular
    Gundi wrote: »
    Moth 13 wrote: »
    Psykoma wrote: »
    Like if undertale said their character was nonbinary.

    Are they not?

    It is not ever mentioned. Almost no character ever refers to the main character with gendered pronouns.

    Pretty sure the main character is intentionally not gendered, yeah.

    cdci44qazyo3.gif

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    ArtoriaArtoria Registered User regular
    Tube wrote: »
    I feel like that kind of talk is inappropriate for the workplace.

    lets hope the guy working in hr feels the same way

    Problem is I've only been here a few months and the man marking those statements is higher up in the department than me and is best friends with one of our department heads.

    mori1972 wrote: »
    Also, I just wanted to add...
    Artoria wrote: »
    ...Sorry to be such a downer but I really had no other place to vent.

    Please don't ever feel like you have to apologise for venting this stuff. There are precious few safe spaces left, and as folks are starting to feel more and more like the world is closing in around them, having somewhere to get this stuff off your chest is more important than ever

    Cue supportive hug/hair tousle/handshake/wave/nod/smile*

    *delete appropriate based on personal space/physical contact preferences

    Thanks and I'm a hugger.

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    mori1972mori1972 FF14: Rhotfyr Thosinmharsyn (Y)UKRegistered User regular
    In that case...

    *BIG SUPPORTIVE HUG*

    It's all saltwater these days:
    Ocean, tears and heartbreak soup
    Half alive in a whitecap foam
    Half in love with a white half moon
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    MetalbourneMetalbourne Inside a cluster b personalityRegistered User regular
    Artoria wrote: »
    Tube wrote: »
    I feel like that kind of talk is inappropriate for the workplace.

    lets hope the guy working in hr feels the same way

    Problem is I've only been here a few months and the man marking those statements is higher up in the department than me and is best friends with one of our department heads.


    And then there's always that, too.

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    PonyPony Registered User regular
    edited May 2017
    bleh

    i am dealing with terrible family nonsense that is like, queer issues adjacent.

    so my brother's SO that he's been with for over a year and lives with him is some form of GQ or non-binary and is kinda figuring stuff out. They go back and forth on pronouns, sometimes using she or they or he (they're AFAB, for what it matters) but I will try to stick to they for the purposes of this post for simplicity.

    My brother is a cishet dude but is super supportive of his SO and all they are going through and is sticking by them and isn't making their transition and journey about him and so on.

    The wrinkle is this person also, for reasons unrelated to gender stuff, also... kinda sucks?

    They're abusive and self-absorbed and shitty towards my brother and take advantage of the people around them and hide behind their queerness like a shield.

    They have serious, diagnosed but poorly treated mental health issues that they pretty much put no effort into helping themselves with or accepting help from others.

    And it's important to acknowledge that these things are separate issues, even though they like to obfuscate them. I do not like this person and think they need to be the fuck out of my brother's life, they are abusing him mentally, emotionally, financially, and I suspect physically.

    It is not because they are queer. It's because they're an abusive narcissistic mess who hurts people around them.

    My mother, unfortunately, not so good at separating those things because she has her own bigotries.

    So, my brother is planning to go to Pride Toronto with his SO to support them. My mother is against this, and her reasons for this are because my brother "doesn't have a reason to be there". When I point out that it's not about him, it's about supporting his partner (who neither of us like), she responds that he "shouldn't be enabling her illness" and should be "encouraging her to get help".

    Putting aside the fact that the person is also bisexual so even if they weren't GQ they would still have a very good reason to go to Pride, what the fuck, mom?

    My mother is not otherwise a transphobe. She is, hilariously enough, homophobic and biphobic, but generally has espoused fairly tolerant and accepting (if transmedicalist) views in the past.

    When I argue with her about it, the issue is apparent; she can't mentally separate the fact that this mentally ill person who is abusing her son that she despises is also, unrelated, genderqueer. For her, all those things are one thing.

    Exhausting.

    Pony on
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