The best story WWE has done recently was the ascension of Daniel Bryan, and that was more luck than anything else.
Wrestling ending up being great relies a lot on luck.
No it doesn't or shouldn't.
WWE getting Hogan in 1983, NWO getting huge, Austin's ascension, the Montreal Screwjob leading to the biggest wrestling heel character ever, Vince Russo leaving WWE, the Radical's debuting.
A lot of great wrestling moments relied on luck.
Its not about luck its about capitalizing on opportunities that have been paid for.
NWO wasnt luck that was great booking.
Those are moments whete the writing took advantage of the opportunity, plus all those things had terrible conclusions.
wait what
Which one had a good conclusion?
Russo leaving for one. Hogan led WWE to massive prosperity from 1984 to 1989. Austin also gave WWE a shitload of money for 3 years straight. The Mr. McMahon character is the greatest heel ever.
The best story WWE has done recently was the ascension of Daniel Bryan, and that was more luck than anything else.
Wrestling ending up being great relies a lot on luck.
No it doesn't or shouldn't.
WWE getting Hogan in 1983, NWO getting huge, Austin's ascension, the Montreal Screwjob leading to the biggest wrestling heel character ever, Vince Russo leaving WWE, the Radical's debuting.
A lot of great wrestling moments relied on luck.
Its not about luck its about capitalizing on opportunities that have been paid for.
NWO wasnt luck that was great booking.
Those are moments whete the writing took advantage of the opportunity, plus all those things had terrible conclusions.
wait what
Which one had a good conclusion?
Russo leaving for one. Hogan led WWE to massive prosperity from 1984 to 1989. Austin also gave WWE a shitload of money for 3 years straight. The Mr. McMahon character is the greatest heel ever.
I mean as a story what of those had a storyline that led to a satisfying conclusion?
The best story WWE has done recently was the ascension of Daniel Bryan, and that was more luck than anything else.
Wrestling ending up being great relies a lot on luck.
No it doesn't or shouldn't.
WWE getting Hogan in 1983, NWO getting huge, Austin's ascension, the Montreal Screwjob leading to the biggest wrestling heel character ever, Vince Russo leaving WWE, the Radical's debuting.
A lot of great wrestling moments relied on luck.
Its not about luck its about capitalizing on opportunities that have been paid for.
NWO wasnt luck that was great booking.
Those are moments whete the writing took advantage of the opportunity, plus all those things had terrible conclusions.
wait what
Which one had a good conclusion?
Hogan going to WWE lead to the explosion in popularity of wrestling in he 80s and the rock and wrestling era and the success of WWE. NWO lead to the pushing of the product for both WCW and WWE and the renewed creativity that lead to the hugely popular wrestling era of the 90s. Montreal Screwjpb lead
To heel McMahon and the growth of Austin, who in turn with the Rock became the most popular and profitable wrestlers of the 90s and early 2000s. The Radicalz being able to move over WWE lead to the popularity of Eddie and Benoit giving them both their chance to shine.
The best story WWE has done recently was the ascension of Daniel Bryan, and that was more luck than anything else.
Wrestling ending up being great relies a lot on luck.
No it doesn't or shouldn't.
WWE getting Hogan in 1983, NWO getting huge, Austin's ascension, the Montreal Screwjob leading to the biggest wrestling heel character ever, Vince Russo leaving WWE, the Radical's debuting.
A lot of great wrestling moments relied on luck.
Its not about luck its about capitalizing on opportunities that have been paid for.
NWO wasnt luck that was great booking.
Those are moments whete the writing took advantage of the opportunity, plus all those things had terrible conclusions.
wait what
Which one had a good conclusion?
Russo leaving for one. Hogan led WWE to massive prosperity from 1984 to 1989. Austin also gave WWE a shitload of money for 3 years straight. The Mr. McMahon character is the greatest heel ever.
I mean as a story what of those had a storyline that led to a satisfying conclusion?
In the traditional sense none I guess but wrestling is all about squeezing every last drop of money out of an idea.
The Heath Slater story from last year was a good one. The problem is after it had a satisfying conclusion they immediately went back to making him a jobber.
PwnanObrienHe's right, life sucks.Registered Userregular
edited May 2017
WWE, who claim they "make movies" would do well to plot out character arcs, keep track of character relationships, check their continuity, tell stories with beginning middle and end using the structure of the hero's journey...
WWE, who claim they "make movies" would do well to plot out a character arcs, keep track of character relationships, check their continuity, tell stories with beginning middle and end using the structure of the hero's journey...
you know, basic "I took screenwriting 101" shit.
This is a good argument though, how much meticulous planning should wrestling use. Because as pointed out earlier it's already really fucking hard to write wrestling of this size.
WWE, who claim they "make movies" would do well to plot out character arcs, keep track of character relationships, check their continuity, tell stories with beginning middle and end using the structure of the hero's journey...
you know, basic "I took screenwriting 101" shit.
and then someone blows out their knee at a house show and you're fucked
WWE, who claim they "make movies" would do well to plot out character arcs, keep track of character relationships, check their continuity, tell stories with beginning middle and end using the structure of the hero's journey...
you know, basic "I took screenwriting 101" shit.
and then someone blows out their knee at a house show and you're fucked
WWE, who claim they "make movies" would do well to plot out character arcs, keep track of character relationships, check their continuity, tell stories with beginning middle and end using the structure of the hero's journey...
you know, basic "I took screenwriting 101" shit.
and then someone blows out their knee at a house show and you're fucked
Except they should have several storylines going at a time and people or a feud can become a bigger deal. Theres a lot of writers for many stories.
The big problem with booking a wrestling show compared to, say, writing a story, is that you can write a satisfying story from start, middle, to end, but then that person immediately has to then enter a new storyline immediately after. The inherent nature of wrestling as a continuous story means that quality is bound to shift wildly from story to story.
The big problem with booking a wrestling show compared to, say, writing a story, is that you can write a satisfying story from start, middle, to end, but then that person immediately has to then enter a new storyline immediately after. The inherent nature of wrestling as a continuous story means that quality is bound to shift wildly from story to story.
They also need to lean more toward the sport side like UFC while one person is best contender there are other strong competitors to step up and people for them to beat after losing a title match.
Another reason the Attitude Era had a better overarching plot than today is WWE only had 2 hours a week to tell the story. Coincidentally, when Smackdown showed up things started to get diluted.
The brand split has helped that out some, on SDL's side.
The big problem with booking a wrestling show compared to, say, writing a story, is that you can write a satisfying story from start, middle, to end, but then that person immediately has to then enter a new storyline immediately after. The inherent nature of wrestling as a continuous story means that quality is bound to shift wildly from story to story.
They also need to lean more toward the sport side like UFC while one person is best contender there are other strong competitors to step up and people for them to beat after losing a title match.
This is my biggest worry of WWE's future. It's no guarantee whoever takes over after Vince will finally get them to treat the stories better in terms of wins and losses.
The big problem with booking a wrestling show compared to, say, writing a story, is that you can write a satisfying story from start, middle, to end, but then that person immediately has to then enter a new storyline immediately after. The inherent nature of wrestling as a continuous story means that quality is bound to shift wildly from story to story.
If people got more time off this wouldn't be an issue.
Seth finally beats Joe to end three months long feud? Now Joe gets two months off. Seth finishes his next three month feud, is well into it by the time Joe gets back so it's not weird, now Seth takes two months off.
This would also require them to treat and pay them like employees, so it'll obviously never happen.
The big problem with booking a wrestling show compared to, say, writing a story, is that you can write a satisfying story from start, middle, to end, but then that person immediately has to then enter a new storyline immediately after. The inherent nature of wrestling as a continuous story means that quality is bound to shift wildly from story to story.
If people got more time off this wouldn't be an issue.
Seth finally beats Joe to end three months long feud? Now Joe gets two months off. Seth finishes his next three month feud, is well into it by the time Joe gets back so it's not weird, now Seth takes two months off.
This would also require them to treat and pay them like employees, so it'll obviously never happen.
I wouldn't go two months...maybe more like two or three weeks but yeah. Give the conclusions time to breathe, cycle new people in and let featured performers rest. We're not going to forget who Seth Rollins is because he has a lighter work schedule a few times every year.
I'm guessing they want to use him later in the year as much as possible and are sacrificing his dates now.
Cool. Who needs the world title to show up or ever be defended.
Nah, the World title is still on TV frequently. Unless you mean the red knockoff from the Bootleg Zone.
As for WWE's shitty storytelling, what always sticks out in my mind is there was that one guy who seemed to know what he was doing (and if memory serves, he was responsible for some good stuff), and everyone else basically laughed at him for using actual writing methodology to write their sports entertainment show.
For all WWE talks about how their competition is movies and TV and how they're in entertainment, providing action and drama and romance and comedy, they sure don't act like it as they never seem to know where they're going until they're already knocking on the door.
Once upon a time, I thought writing for WWE would be cool, but I've long since abandoned that notion after learning how things are run as they think they're somehow better than everyone else while constantly laughing in the face of basic stuff.
LBD_Nytetrayn on
Like Mega Man Legends? Then check out my story, Legends of the Halcyon Era - An Adventure in the World of Mega Man Legends on TMMN and AO3!
Daniel Bryan on future after WWE contract ends - "If I feel like my health is good, I love to wrestle, and I'm gonna go wrestle" https://streamable.com/w2fds
Not shocked. RIP
The kid isn't going to be enough to change his mind and avoid more concussions. Pretty clear now
WWE, who claim they "make movies" would do well to plot out character arcs, keep track of character relationships, check their continuity, tell stories with beginning middle and end using the structure of the hero's journey...
you know, basic "I took screenwriting 101" shit.
and then someone blows out their knee at a house show and you're fucked
Not really, they have so many talents to work with that they should always have literally dozens of irons in the fire. If they lose a character for a while it shouldn't be that crushing if they were following the standard format above which is essentially that of a comic book series that is team focused. Sure there are over arching plots but most characters are getting a beat or two per issue and those can be expounded on later if need be. The utter lack of legitimate writing on a show the size of WWE is astounding. It is because they dont follow any kind of process that they are crippled when the current basket they have placed all their eggs in has a hole. How they have managed to get so huge and most of the creative end has not progressed further than most indies is remarkable.
Inside of a dog...it's too dark to read.
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HawkstoneDon't sweat the petty things, and don't pet the sweaty things. Somewhere outside of BarstowRegistered Userregular
Daniel Bryan on future after WWE contract ends - "If I feel like my health is good, I love to wrestle, and I'm gonna go wrestle" https://streamable.com/w2fds
Not shocked. RIP
The kid isn't going to be enough to change his mind and avoid more concussions. Pretty clear now
I still wish WWE would just let him wrestle. I know that is an unpopular opinion here, but if he is going to do it come hell or high water, I would rather see him taken care of with the best possible health care and protection rather than have him die in an indie ring 5 years from now because nobody is looking out for him.
WWE, who claim they "make movies" would do well to plot out character arcs, keep track of character relationships, check their continuity, tell stories with beginning middle and end using the structure of the hero's journey...
you know, basic "I took screenwriting 101" shit.
and then someone blows out their knee at a house show and you're fucked
Not really, they have so many talents to work with that they should always have literally dozens of irons in the fire. If they lose a character for a while it shouldn't be that crushing if they were following the standard format above which is essentially that of a comic book series that is team focused. Sure there are over arching plots but most characters are getting a beat or two per issue and those can be expounded on later if need be. The utter lack of legitimate writing on a show the size of WWE is astounding. It is because they dont follow any kind of process that they are crippled when the current basket they have placed all their eggs in has a hole. How they have managed to get so huge and most of the creative end has not progressed further than most indies is remarkable.
There is debate on just how big and profitable WWE is right now. And of course there's always the theory that WWE would be doing Attitude Era numbers again if Vince just got out of the way and what ever else.
Daniel Bryan on future after WWE contract ends - "If I feel like my health is good, I love to wrestle, and I'm gonna go wrestle" https://streamable.com/w2fds
Not shocked. RIP
The kid isn't going to be enough to change his mind and avoid more concussions. Pretty clear now
I still wish WWE would just let him wrestle. I know that is an unpopular opinion here, but if he is going to do it come hell or high water, I would rather see him taken care of with the best possible health care and protection rather than have him die in an indie ring 5 years from now because nobody is looking out for him.
He's claimed that if he does wrestle outside WWE he'll develop a "safe" style and it won't be like 10 years ago.
Daniel Bryan on future after WWE contract ends - "If I feel like my health is good, I love to wrestle, and I'm gonna go wrestle" https://streamable.com/w2fds
Not shocked. RIP
The kid isn't going to be enough to change his mind and avoid more concussions. Pretty clear now
I still wish WWE would just let him wrestle. I know that is an unpopular opinion here, but if he is going to do it come hell or high water, I would rather see him taken care of with the best possible health care and protection rather than have him die in an indie ring 5 years from now because nobody is looking out for him.
He's claimed that if he does wrestle outside WWE he'll develop a "safe" style and it won't be like 10 years ago.
Considering he claimed he'd work a safer style after his first major stint away in WWE, and he came back the next week doing headbutts on top of a ladder at Mania, and did a jumping one off a forklift the following PPV, I'm going to say I don't for a moment believe him or his word.
The problem is the storylines have no long-term consequences.
Case in point: every single Bray story ever.
No one comes out of a Bray feud changed in any way and that's a problem.
I agree. It's like a cartoon show where everyone has to fall back into the same place at the end of the episode.
There shouldn't be on screen authority figures, not two of them anyway.
And most of the characters do write themselves. Bray should be leading a group of COMPETENT henchmen, not people who get jobbed out, they can lose but they should at least look somewhat dominant in Bray's wake, Bray should be holding the top title on one of the shows not Brock, and his group should be dominating the fuck out of the scene through power and numbers so that some uber face like Finn can have his ass kicked on a regular basis but sometimes scrape out a sometimes slightly unclean finish to get one over on the supervillains until eventually taking the title at a top tier PPV to be crowned top face, and then you get to have a story about retaining the title against insurmountable odds. Not just taking tonnes of punishment every match to bust out a spear and win, but losing for a good reason but being defiant anyway and getting smarter each time.
That's just two characters and it's so simple. Instead Bray only won his last non-title match via interference and is now just facing finn because fuck you that's why. His hencheman have all departed, he randomly and inconsistently has sheep minions, and he is almost certainly going to be defeated by Finn to look like a waste of space again.
The CWs SHOULD be interacting with the rest of the roster, their promos should be interfered with and they should interfere back. There's no reason on Earth that someone as good as Neville would not be challenging someone like KO or Randy for the higher titles on top of the one he has. If anything his hubris should be his downfall, trying to take on too much through his ego. He is the best damn heel WWE has by far with Owens so neutered, and I think he might be better than Owens was at his start in WWE anyway, and he is being wasted in this bizarrely segmented division.
The Hardy's came back white hot and now they're just coming out for a few cheers while WWE plays bingo with which tag team to throw at them and they all are really nice and take turns too. Noone interferes or has a heated rivalry with other teams.
Daniel Bryan on future after WWE contract ends - "If I feel like my health is good, I love to wrestle, and I'm gonna go wrestle" https://streamable.com/w2fds
Not shocked. RIP
The kid isn't going to be enough to change his mind and avoid more concussions. Pretty clear now
I still wish WWE would just let him wrestle. I know that is an unpopular opinion here, but if he is going to do it come hell or high water, I would rather see him taken care of with the best possible health care and protection rather than have him die in an indie ring 5 years from now because nobody is looking out for him.
He's claimed that if he does wrestle outside WWE he'll develop a "safe" style and it won't be like 10 years ago.
Considering he claimed he'd work a safer style after his first major stint away in WWE, and he came back the next week doing headbutts on top of a ladder at Mania, and did a jumping one off a forklift the following PPV, I'm going to say I don't for a moment believe him or his word.
Yeah I agree I don't trust Bryan to wrestle a safer style, and think he is being incredibly selfish to continue wrestling when he knows his brain is as damaged as it is (motherfucker had seizures for months before telling any doctor before and after his last injury). He has a kid coming and a wife, he really shouldn't be thinking about getting back in the ring to die in some bingo hall.
He has some shitty views on women, trans people, and politics in general
Which is largely fine when he's just being an entertainer (less fine when he thinks it's hilarious to throw a "dude in a dress" joke in the new Baywatch movie), but I'm not going to lionize him as the greatest human being in the universe and certainly not going to hope he runs for President.
Posts
Russo leaving for one. Hogan led WWE to massive prosperity from 1984 to 1989. Austin also gave WWE a shitload of money for 3 years straight. The Mr. McMahon character is the greatest heel ever.
I mean as a story what of those had a storyline that led to a satisfying conclusion?
{Twitter, Everybody's doing it. }{Writing and Story Blog}
Hogan going to WWE lead to the explosion in popularity of wrestling in he 80s and the rock and wrestling era and the success of WWE. NWO lead to the pushing of the product for both WCW and WWE and the renewed creativity that lead to the hugely popular wrestling era of the 90s. Montreal Screwjpb lead
To heel McMahon and the growth of Austin, who in turn with the Rock became the most popular and profitable wrestlers of the 90s and early 2000s. The Radicalz being able to move over WWE lead to the popularity of Eddie and Benoit giving them both their chance to shine.
In the traditional sense none I guess but wrestling is all about squeezing every last drop of money out of an idea.
My Let's Play Channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UC2go70QLfwGq-hW4nvUqmog
and the man who announced the main event!
you know, basic "I took screenwriting 101" shit.
This is a good argument though, how much meticulous planning should wrestling use. Because as pointed out earlier it's already really fucking hard to write wrestling of this size.
and then someone blows out their knee at a house show and you're fucked
Case in point, Strowman.
Thankfully not a horrible injury.
Except they should have several storylines going at a time and people or a feud can become a bigger deal. Theres a lot of writers for many stories.
{Twitter, Everybody's doing it. }{Writing and Story Blog}
3DS: 2981-5304-3227
They also need to lean more toward the sport side like UFC while one person is best contender there are other strong competitors to step up and people for them to beat after losing a title match.
{Twitter, Everybody's doing it. }{Writing and Story Blog}
The brand split has helped that out some, on SDL's side.
This is my biggest worry of WWE's future. It's no guarantee whoever takes over after Vince will finally get them to treat the stories better in terms of wins and losses.
Case in point: every single Bray story ever.
No one comes out of a Bray feud changed in any way and that's a problem.
My Let's Play Channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UC2go70QLfwGq-hW4nvUqmog
If people got more time off this wouldn't be an issue.
Seth finally beats Joe to end three months long feud? Now Joe gets two months off. Seth finishes his next three month feud, is well into it by the time Joe gets back so it's not weird, now Seth takes two months off.
This would also require them to treat and pay them like employees, so it'll obviously never happen.
I wouldn't go two months...maybe more like two or three weeks but yeah. Give the conclusions time to breathe, cycle new people in and let featured performers rest. We're not going to forget who Seth Rollins is because he has a lighter work schedule a few times every year.
Nah, the World title is still on TV frequently. Unless you mean the red knockoff from the Bootleg Zone.
As for WWE's shitty storytelling, what always sticks out in my mind is there was that one guy who seemed to know what he was doing (and if memory serves, he was responsible for some good stuff), and everyone else basically laughed at him for using actual writing methodology to write their sports entertainment show.
For all WWE talks about how their competition is movies and TV and how they're in entertainment, providing action and drama and romance and comedy, they sure don't act like it as they never seem to know where they're going until they're already knocking on the door.
Once upon a time, I thought writing for WWE would be cool, but I've long since abandoned that notion after learning how things are run as they think they're somehow better than everyone else while constantly laughing in the face of basic stuff.
Like Mega Man Legends? Then check out my story, Legends of the Halcyon Era - An Adventure in the World of Mega Man Legends on TMMN and AO3!
Not shocked. RIP
The kid isn't going to be enough to change his mind and avoid more concussions. Pretty clear now
Steam
Not really, they have so many talents to work with that they should always have literally dozens of irons in the fire. If they lose a character for a while it shouldn't be that crushing if they were following the standard format above which is essentially that of a comic book series that is team focused. Sure there are over arching plots but most characters are getting a beat or two per issue and those can be expounded on later if need be. The utter lack of legitimate writing on a show the size of WWE is astounding. It is because they dont follow any kind of process that they are crippled when the current basket they have placed all their eggs in has a hole. How they have managed to get so huge and most of the creative end has not progressed further than most indies is remarkable.
I still wish WWE would just let him wrestle. I know that is an unpopular opinion here, but if he is going to do it come hell or high water, I would rather see him taken care of with the best possible health care and protection rather than have him die in an indie ring 5 years from now because nobody is looking out for him.
There is debate on just how big and profitable WWE is right now. And of course there's always the theory that WWE would be doing Attitude Era numbers again if Vince just got out of the way and what ever else.
He's claimed that if he does wrestle outside WWE he'll develop a "safe" style and it won't be like 10 years ago.
Considering he claimed he'd work a safer style after his first major stint away in WWE, and he came back the next week doing headbutts on top of a ladder at Mania, and did a jumping one off a forklift the following PPV, I'm going to say I don't for a moment believe him or his word.
Steam
3DS: 2981-5304-3227
I agree. It's like a cartoon show where everyone has to fall back into the same place at the end of the episode.
There shouldn't be on screen authority figures, not two of them anyway.
And most of the characters do write themselves. Bray should be leading a group of COMPETENT henchmen, not people who get jobbed out, they can lose but they should at least look somewhat dominant in Bray's wake, Bray should be holding the top title on one of the shows not Brock, and his group should be dominating the fuck out of the scene through power and numbers so that some uber face like Finn can have his ass kicked on a regular basis but sometimes scrape out a sometimes slightly unclean finish to get one over on the supervillains until eventually taking the title at a top tier PPV to be crowned top face, and then you get to have a story about retaining the title against insurmountable odds. Not just taking tonnes of punishment every match to bust out a spear and win, but losing for a good reason but being defiant anyway and getting smarter each time.
That's just two characters and it's so simple. Instead Bray only won his last non-title match via interference and is now just facing finn because fuck you that's why. His hencheman have all departed, he randomly and inconsistently has sheep minions, and he is almost certainly going to be defeated by Finn to look like a waste of space again.
The CWs SHOULD be interacting with the rest of the roster, their promos should be interfered with and they should interfere back. There's no reason on Earth that someone as good as Neville would not be challenging someone like KO or Randy for the higher titles on top of the one he has. If anything his hubris should be his downfall, trying to take on too much through his ego. He is the best damn heel WWE has by far with Owens so neutered, and I think he might be better than Owens was at his start in WWE anyway, and he is being wasted in this bizarrely segmented division.
The Hardy's came back white hot and now they're just coming out for a few cheers while WWE plays bingo with which tag team to throw at them and they all are really nice and take turns too. Noone interferes or has a heated rivalry with other teams.
All this shit is easy, if you give a shit.
Yeah I agree I don't trust Bryan to wrestle a safer style, and think he is being incredibly selfish to continue wrestling when he knows his brain is as damaged as it is (motherfucker had seizures for months before telling any doctor before and after his last injury). He has a kid coming and a wife, he really shouldn't be thinking about getting back in the ring to die in some bingo hall.
Like they aren't going to get Mania 33 reactions in every town.
Been a good long while since that's been seen on TV.
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The fact he might actually run for president in 2020, man.
He has some shitty views on women, trans people, and politics in general
Which is largely fine when he's just being an entertainer (less fine when he thinks it's hilarious to throw a "dude in a dress" joke in the new Baywatch movie), but I'm not going to lionize him as the greatest human being in the universe and certainly not going to hope he runs for President.