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Weightlifting/Strength Training

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    SolarSolar Registered User regular
    Finally got my first ever gym weights session in this evening after an hour and a half or so of climbing. My friends showed me how to bench and squat. I found the bench much more suited! Managed to do 70kgs on the bench and 90kgs on the squat (single rep) and I maybe could have done more but I need to improve technique. So much technique to the squat though, that was interesting. I'd like to be able to at least bench 80kgs and squat 110kgs I think, so something to aim for.

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    webguy20webguy20 I spend too much time on the Internet Registered User regular
    Solar wrote: »
    Finally got my first ever gym weights session in this evening after an hour and a half or so of climbing. My friends showed me how to bench and squat. I found the bench much more suited! Managed to do 70kgs on the bench and 90kgs on the squat (single rep) and I maybe could have done more but I need to improve technique. So much technique to the squat though, that was interesting. I'd like to be able to at least bench 80kgs and squat 110kgs I think, so something to aim for.

    Once the squat technique clicks the numbers will fly up for a bit.

    Steam ID: Webguy20
    Origin ID: Discgolfer27
    Untappd ID: Discgolfer1981
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    SolarSolar Registered User regular
    After I did my best numbers I did a bunch of 5 rep sets with like, 50kgs to try and get the technique improved, and I think I will continue to do that. Fortunately I was with a couple of experienced guys who were knocking out 120kg/130kg reps so I have some good guidance!

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    JuggernutJuggernut Registered User regular
    I miss squats. I miss them weights a clankin'.

    Did a bunch of Bulgarian split squats, step up thrusts, kettle ball swings and phsyioball hamstring curls today. My legs are absolutely fried despite not really moving any actual weight beyond my own body. It's a nice feeling but also I hate this feeling.

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    JuggernutJuggernut Registered User regular
    Anybody else find bench dips uncomfortable? I've tried several different variations of hand placement but no matter where I set up I feel like shoulders get packed in and it limits my depth and range of motion.

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    GorkGork Registered User regular
    Juggernut wrote: »
    Anybody else find bench dips uncomfortable? I've tried several different variations of hand placement but no matter where I set up I feel like shoulders get packed in and it limits my depth and range of motion.
    Bench dips are pretty useless. Find a dip stand or pick another exercise. You’re cranking your shoulders and not getting much muscle activation from where you’re trying to stimulate.

    Daily reminder that meadows rows are the shit. Especially to a bench.

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    SolarSolar Registered User regular
    edited April 2021
    So today I went back to the old bench press and did some practise with the bar, then 30kgs, then 40 kgs, then 50kgs (five reps each) and then five sets of 55kgs at five reps each (easy to remember)

    Felt good! I'm just trying to practice and range in on my actual limit at this point

    I'll be back to it on monday, going to try and push myself up to 60kgs for 5 reps soon. I have no idea what is like... good? But I'm just going to try and slowly develop it

    Didn't squat as thighs still fucking aaaaching. Did do four sets of four pull-ups with 23kgs added weight though, was pretty cool. Need to do some wide grip ones at home now though, but just felt dead tired after doing the weight stuff following an hour and a half of bouldering!

    Solar on
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    initiatefailureinitiatefailure Registered User regular
    weight lifting has finally made me understand how to conver kg to lb so I guess that's a positive in my life. my second COVID shot knocked me way the eff out so it's been a lazy or "chill" week for me. Happy to get back at it next week though and not have any scheduled interruptions until the end of the month

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    SolarSolar Registered User regular
    Did 5 reps on the bench at 60kgs. 62.5kgs next time hopefully! If the newbie gains get me to above 75kgs (my bodyweight) soon that'd be cool :biggrin:

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    Dead LegendDead Legend Registered User regular
    Given your level of physical activity I would have a hard time imagining you wouldn’t be able to bench your bodyweight now, but what’s the rush? Steady progress is better.

    diablo III - beardsnbeer#1508 Mechwarrior Online - Rusty Bock
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    SolarSolar Registered User regular
    edited May 2021
    I mean I am reasonably sure I can at one rep, I did 70kgs at one rep, and I weigh 75kgs, and I felt like I could maybe do more. I just didn't want to push it too much first go on the bench haha

    But I'd like to be able to do 5 reps at 75kgs, clean and smooth. That's what I really mean by getting to 75kgs. I don't really think one rep maximums are very useful to me tbh, for my uses.

    Also the rush is that I wanna get stronger, you know how it is :razz:

    Solar on
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    SolarSolar Registered User regular
    Incidentally you know what makes you better at that fridge hugging? The bench press. I was doing a problem with two opposing aretes at the gym the other day and compressing them definitely felt easier, and more stable. I definitely think that it is engaging the upper and outer chest/delts a lot, and they already feel stronger.

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    SleepSleep Registered User regular
    edited May 2021
    So I've talked about the way I do pullups/chins in the morning. On the 1.5 inch deep ledge of the c conduit (it's like half an I beam) that is the edge of the staircase to the lofted area of my apartment. Normally because of the lack of full grip and the slight incline of the ledge every pull or chin I do is a single cause actually trying to hang for the reps requires bent knees and usually results in unmitigable uneven grip slip cause the ledge is painted to be smooth so there's very little friction on the ledge. So I normally end up hitting my feet between each rep instead of my sets constantly going sideways because I accidentally touched my hair before doing the reps and the ledge became a frictionless surface. Its certainly not perfect, but my whole workout is currently a mess mostly focused on not becoming sedentary this past year.

    This morning while doing pulls I decided to fold up the knees and just go for it. See if I can at least manage to drop down into the hanging position for a second before I slip off. I managed 3 reps before my fingers lost it and I had to reset myself. Then I managed the same in all the following sets. Doesn't seem like a ton but being able to just slowly drop down and hang my 225 pounds on that ledge without the slightest bit of swing to take me off the ledge felt good, being able to get a few reps in before I slipped off was awesome.

    Oh also solar you should check out zercher squats, its squats that also activate basically your whole upper body climbing apparatus cause you're holding the bar in the crook of your arm.

    Sleep on
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    initiatefailureinitiatefailure Registered User regular
    Back into it after my vaccine mini-vacation (and mini fever) was a little shaky. I dropped weight by a stage and took it slow so we got there in the end but man, even a day cold just historically knocks me on my ass in terms of getting back into rhythm. so I'm honestly just happy I was motivated to get to the gym today, that's not something I'd have been able to say at other points in my life.

    I saw a buddy for the first time since lockdown last week and their reaction was "holy shit you look like someone who lost 20-30 lbs and put on 10 lbs of muscle" and I'll take those wins

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    SolarSolar Registered User regular
    Sleep wrote: »
    So I've talked about the way I do pullups/chins in the morning. On the 1.5 inch deep ledge of the c conduit (it's like half an I beam) that is the edge of the staircase to the lofted area of my apartment. Normally because of the lack of full grip and the slight incline of the ledge every pull or chin I do is a single cause actually trying to hang for the reps requires bent knees and usually results in unmitigable uneven grip slip cause the ledge is painted to be smooth so there's very little friction on the ledge. So I normally end up hitting my feet between each rep instead of my sets constantly going sideways because I accidentally touched my hair before doing the reps and the ledge became a frictionless surface. Its certainly not perfect, but my whole workout is currently a mess mostly focused on not becoming sedentary this past year.

    This morning while doing pulls I decided to fold up the knees and just go for it. See if I can at least manage to drop down into the hanging position for a second before I slip off. I managed 3 reps before my fingers lost it and I had to reset myself. Then I managed the same in all the following sets. Doesn't seem like a ton but being able to just slowly drop down and hang my 225 pounds on that ledge without the slightest bit of swing to take me off the ledge felt good, being able to get a few reps in before I slipped off was awesome.

    Oh also solar you should check out zercher squats, its squats that also activate basically your whole upper body climbing apparatus cause you're holding the bar in the crook of your arm.

    Nice one man! If you just hang on that edge with activated fingers for 10 seconds per rep, six reps with decent rests, and do that every other day, you'll strengthen them a lot and be able to do more pullups, with that setup your finger strength will be the limiting factor on how many pullups you can do in a row (by far). The edge is a lot wider than a lot of training edges but it's probably a lot slippier too. Chalk would help I expect.

    Zercher squats look very strange! I am not sure how useful squatting is to rock climbing generally, but probably that is a bit more useful? It is questionable to what extent any strength training is actually good for climbing though lol

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    Dead LegendDead Legend Registered User regular
    I would second chalk

    diablo III - beardsnbeer#1508 Mechwarrior Online - Rusty Bock
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    SolarSolar Registered User regular
    Realistically chalk and like, not a gloss finish on what you are hanging on

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    Dead LegendDead Legend Registered User regular
    @Solar I would bet a large amount of money that if you have two climbers of equal experience the one who is stronger would be better, so I think strength training is important regardless of the situation.

    And squatting is good just due to the amount of musculature involved and the response it produces via hormonal, skeletal and muscular adaptations.

    I could make an argument for the brain responding positively to squats.

    diablo III - beardsnbeer#1508 Mechwarrior Online - Rusty Bock
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    initiatefailureinitiatefailure Registered User regular
    Holy crap I could not squat today to save my life. Maybe just residual need to recover from the vaccine fever day but it felt like I hadn't had a rest day. I ended up rolling out every part of my legs and glutes and they just stayed angry the whole time.

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    SolarSolar Registered User regular
    edited May 2021
    You would be correct as long as they were stronger in relation to their weight. Getting stronger but weighing more is counterproductive if the strength gains don't more than outweigh (heh) the increased weight from the training. Doing a lot of squats would make me stronger! But it would make me heavier too... and would it make me stronger in a way which is useful? Or would it actually be detrimental? My fingers aren't stronger for doing those squats... but if they're having to pull up an extra kilo or two then that absolutely will make me worse.

    I'm not saying that squats are bad and maybe they are good for this purpose! Merely that strength training for climbing is a delicate balance and not everything is useful or may only be useful in specific problems. So the question is 1) is it useful and 2) even if it is, is it as useful as spending that time and energy doing other things like doing laps of my board or dedicated core or whatever.

    Solar on
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    SolarSolar Registered User regular
    Like doing a bit of research the consensus seems to be from more professional types "pistol squats yes absolutely, back squats not really very useful"

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    Dead LegendDead Legend Registered User regular
    edited May 2021
    To be honest, I don’t care if you squat or not, but I cannot think of a single scenario in any activity or sport where squatting would not improve. Do climbers need to squat 2.5x their body weight? No. Is being able to squat their bodyweight efficient? More than not being able to. What is the proper ratio? 1.25x? 1.4x? I don’t know that information, and likely never will short of studying novice, intermediate, and elite climbers and establishing if their climbing improves or declines as their squat goes up or down. But given the nature of that type of study, it’s already flawed because the more time they spend climbing they should get better at climbing. Does it provide a faster pace of improving?

    Pistols are more of a flexibility and balance issue than strength if you already have a base level of strength. Which is easily attained by squatting!

    If 1-2 kilos of lean body mass caused your grip to fail, then your grip needs more work. Which if you’re a climber, it would be assumed your grip is a primary focus of your training. Like I said earlier though, if your squat improves and your upper body strength improves because your training age and exposure to strength training being relatively new it should be entirely beneficial and not negatively impact you unless you are gaining more fat mass than lean body mass, which is a diet issue.

    This is with no ill-intent: I don’t care about changing your opinion. I stand by what I said. I would not train a climber the same I would train a shot putter. But they would both squat and do grip work.

    Dead Legend on
    diablo III - beardsnbeer#1508 Mechwarrior Online - Rusty Bock
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    SleepSleep Registered User regular
    edited May 2021
    Yeah I figure squatting should be in basically every training regimen even if they're light or a specifically focused variant. Like the squatting program for a power lifter trying to set dead lift records and stuff or do strong man competitions is absolutely not the squatting program for a figure skater or tennis player, but it's very assumable all of those athletes are going to be squatting as part of their training regimen.

    pistol squats do make a bunch of sense for climbing training because the use case for legs in climbing is as isolated single leg presses from potentially strange angles that require balance and poise on the press rather than explosive drive.

    The squat is just such a good overall exercise of everything you've got even as just a warm up bodyweight exercise.

    I just absolutely cannot do pistol squats, they seem like absolute madness to my knees, so I forget they exist

    Sleep on
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    Dead LegendDead Legend Registered User regular
    Also yes, I am stubbornly obstinate and pigheaded when it comes to strength training.

    I spend way more time at my job trying to educate sport coaches why I do things the way I do, and regularly get the comparisons of “so and so does this”. The problem with so and so is he went to the NBA out of high school and you’re recruiting a junior college athlete with a fucked up knee. Different genetics. Different floors and ceilings.

    diablo III - beardsnbeer#1508 Mechwarrior Online - Rusty Bock
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    NaphtaliNaphtali Hazy + Flow SeaRegistered User regular
    Solar wrote: »
    You would be correct as long as they were stronger in relation to their weight. Getting stronger but weighing more is counterproductive if the strength gains don't more than outweigh (heh) the increased weight from the training. Doing a lot of squats would make me stronger! But it would make me heavier too... and would it make me stronger in a way which is useful? Or would it actually be detrimental? My fingers aren't stronger for doing those squats... but if they're having to pull up an extra kilo or two then that absolutely will make me worse.

    I'm not saying that squats are bad and maybe they are good for this purpose! Merely that strength training for climbing is a delicate balance and not everything is useful or may only be useful in specific problems. So the question is 1) is it useful and 2) even if it is, is it as useful as spending that time and energy doing other things like doing laps of my board or dedicated core or whatever.

    I honestly don't think you'd get so much heavier from general strength training that it would impact your climbing TBH, unless we're talking about some sort of serious, full time body building effort (like movie star/MMA fighter level nonsense).

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    SolarSolar Registered User regular
    edited May 2021
    My question is just always

    1) what are my goals

    2) does this training advance my goals

    3) I am an amateur and I do this for fun, is this going to be a horrible slog

    My goals are to improve at climbing and I can break that down more but the second question is kind of the key. With squatting I think that the answer is "squatting so that I have the necessary strength to develop a good set of pistol squats, and also so that I have sufficient stability and posterior chain strength to climb without getting injured, is good. But beyond that is not really applicable to my goals."

    I will say this; I know people who can squat way better than I can and it doesn't seem to help them climb hard. I know people who climb harder than I ever will and they've never looked at a squat rack. I feel like it's not necessary and so shouldn't be viewed as a core component of a training regime for that view (unlike core, finger and shoulder/back pull strength training). Not to be glib but these people do tend to know how to train and maximise training gains for their goals within the sport very, very well.

    Solar on
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    webguy20webguy20 I spend too much time on the Internet Registered User regular
    Solar wrote: »
    My question is just always

    1) what are my goals

    2) does this training advance my goals

    3) I am an amateur and I do this for fun, is this going to be a horrible slog

    My goals are to improve at climbing and I can break that down more but the second question is kind of the key. With squatting I think that the answer is "squatting so that I have the necessary strength to develop a pistol squat, and also so that I have sufficient stability and posterior chain strength to climb without getting injured, is good. But beyond that is not really applicable to my goals. And I'd rather spend the time doing something else.

    I will say this; I know people who can squat way better than I can and it doesn't seem to help them climb hard. I know people who climb harder than I ever will and they've never looked at a squat rack. It's absolutely not necessary and so shouldn't be viewed as a core component of a training regime for that view. Not to be glib but these people do tend to know how to train and maximise training gains for their goals within the sport very, very well.

    Don't forget that one side effect of squats is to look bangin' in a snug pair of jeans.

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    eddizhereeddizhere Scrubber Than A Sponge Scrubtown, USARegistered User regular
    Weirdest part of coming back to the gym is my OHP and Bench have been advancing faster than my squats and deadlifts. I think part of that is that I may have started heavier with squats and deads cause “haha legs/core can do big number” but my whole body has felt unusually tight this week so I’m wondering if it’s also dehydration/not enough rest/not enough food that’s stalling out progress.


    I’ve got a few rest days ahead of me and I’ll take extra care to treat myself right and see how I feel next time

    League of Legends: Plutoniumwombat
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    Dead LegendDead Legend Registered User regular
    I’ve been doing sets of 5 across the last couple weeks and just bumping weight up but not really at any particularly impressive percentage. The upside is I am getting more volume than I normally would be and correcting some technique issues that had gotten noticeably shittier.

    And since I am training at ~65-75% that leaves me with enough gas to do all the accessory work that I hate doing so that’s fun.

    diablo III - beardsnbeer#1508 Mechwarrior Online - Rusty Bock
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    JuggernutJuggernut Registered User regular
    Back at it this morning after having my flow thrown off for a week due to a shitty sinus infection.

    Still trying to decide when I want to really start getting back into heavy weights. I'm back doing a sort of hybrid routine with a lot of body movements and some higher volume weights thrown in here and there. I feel like my shoulders and arms have gotten smaller though. Not that I'm gonna lose that much muscle mass in a month but I'm not doing as much creatine in conjuction with heavy lifts anymore so I feel smaller. Which I do not like.

    Anyway, whenever I do get back to it I guess I'm gonna try and set up a photoshoot of myself squatting and post it here to see if I'm fucking something up.

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    PeenPeen Registered User regular
    Feeling smaller after taking even the smallest bit of time off is a hell of a thing. My kid brought home a weird late spring cold last week that kicked her ass, then my ass, then my wife's ass, so between all of that I didn't lift at all last week and I feel like the tiniest baby man.

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    Peter EbelPeter Ebel CopenhagenRegistered User regular
    edited May 2021
    Lifting weights still isn't practical for me in these corona days, so I've switched out iron for some rocks I have lying around. My routine consists of hoisting (cleaning???) two rocks up to my chest, holding them in overhand grip and then squatting a bunch. It's basically an awkward front squat. There's a lot more activation of the core, since the weight is further out in front. I guess it's something like squatting with an Atlas stone.

    Honestly, the more awkward lifting is something I enjoy a lot. It's nice to try the movements outside of the controlled setting of the gym.

    Even when we go back to "normal", I'd still like to do something like this. Maybe get a heavy sandbag.

    Peter Ebel on
    Fuck off and die.
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    GorkGork Registered User regular
    edited May 2021
    Peter Ebel wrote: »
    Lifting weights still isn't practical for me in these corona days, so I've switched out iron for some rocks I have lying around. My routine consists of hoisting (cleaning???) two rocks up to my chest, holding them in overhand grip and then squatting a bunch. It's basically an awkward front squat. There's a lot more activation of the core, since the weight is further out in front. I guess it's something like squatting with an Atlas stone.

    Honestly, the more awkward lifting is something I enjoy a lot. It's nice to try the movements outside of the controlled setting of the gym.

    Even when we go back to "normal", I'd still like to do something like this. Maybe get a heavy sandbag.

    Lifting awkward things is literally the definition of Strongman events.

    Two weeks left on my cut and starting block two of Calgary, heavy Romanians for sets of nine with a minute and a half rest can eat my dirty poohole. I just do not have the motor for this, right now.

    Comp squat; 330lbs x 3 x 3, 280lbs x 2 x 5
    Pause bench; 235lbs x 4 x 3, 200lbs x 2 x 5
    RDL; 315lbs x 1 x 9, drops for three more sets because pooholes.

    Gork on
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    Dead LegendDead Legend Registered User regular
    Peen wrote: »
    Feeling smaller after taking even the smallest bit of time off is a hell of a thing. My kid brought home a weird late spring cold last week that kicked her ass, then my ass, then my wife's ass, so between all of that I didn't lift at all last week and I feel like the tiniest baby man.

    Just take pictures in the bathroom and edit the shit out of them

    diablo III - beardsnbeer#1508 Mechwarrior Online - Rusty Bock
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    JuggernutJuggernut Registered User regular
    edited May 2021
    Tried front squats today.

    Kept a box under me so I didn't get particularly deep, maybe right at or slightly above parallel. Only did 3x10 at 115 pounds because I've never done them and didn't want to die.

    The wrist position is what makes or breaks it. Even once I got in where I was really only using my two middle fingers to keep a check on the bar and the weight was fully on my shoulders, by rep 10 they were starting to bark. I also kept having the bar bump into my neck and gag me a little.

    They felt a little more intense than a regular squat. I don't know if that's because the bar being up front required more focus to maintain a tight core and straight back because gravity is pulling you forward, or if it's because it was a new lift and I wasn't super comfortable?

    Juggernut on
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    initiatefailureinitiatefailure Registered User regular
    in a couple weeks I'm traveling to watch my parent's house and dogs and trying to figure out what to do about workouts. like i'm sure a week of body weight stuff is fine but I'm wondering if i can get more out of it, like are those adjustable dumbells any good? I think I always just assumed they weren't that secure.

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    Dead LegendDead Legend Registered User regular
    Pull your head back like you’re trying to create a double chin, that will help with the bar hitting you in the throat.

    As far as gaining mobility in the front rack position - triceps, lats, forearms need to be stretched and worked on prior to front squatting if you want comfort.

    diablo III - beardsnbeer#1508 Mechwarrior Online - Rusty Bock
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    GorkGork Registered User regular
    Pull your head back like you’re trying to create a double chin, that will help with the bar hitting you in the throat.

    As far as gaining mobility in the front rack position - triceps, lats, forearms need to be stretched and worked on prior to front squatting if you want comfort.
    Also, keep the bar off your neck to keep it away from your carotid artery. There are countless videos of people going night night mid-set because they cut off the blood flow to their brain.

    Post second vaccine and doing some shoulder work to get the blood moving. This is totally a good idea.

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    NaphtaliNaphtali Hazy + Flow SeaRegistered User regular
    in a couple weeks I'm traveling to watch my parent's house and dogs and trying to figure out what to do about workouts. like i'm sure a week of body weight stuff is fine but I'm wondering if i can get more out of it, like are those adjustable dumbells any good? I think I always just assumed they weren't that secure.

    depends which ones you get, but the more expensive & better ones are harder to transport probably. what about some kettlebells?

    Steam | Nintendo ID: Naphtali | Wish List
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    GorkGork Registered User regular
    edited May 2021
    Naphtali wrote: »
    in a couple weeks I'm traveling to watch my parent's house and dogs and trying to figure out what to do about workouts. like i'm sure a week of body weight stuff is fine but I'm wondering if i can get more out of it, like are those adjustable dumbells any good? I think I always just assumed they weren't that secure.

    depends which ones you get, but the more expensive & better ones are harder to transport probably. what about some kettlebells?

    The more expensive ones are actually easier to transport, since all the weight can be self contained attached to the handle. Adjustable handles (either spin lock or Olympic) would be harder to move, since the plates are all separate pieces, but maybe not so hard depending on how much weight you’re moving.

    I have Powerblocks and I love them. Very secure. Not the most traditional feel, though.

    Gork on
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