My own quick and dirty tier list, if it has a + you should really upgrade it ASAP. I'll take as many S tier cards as offered, auto pick the first copy of any given A tier cards unless I'm doing a thing, and choose from B tier cards to shore up any holes, particularly in the early game.
Ironclad
S: Offering
A: Body Slam+, Uppercut+, Shrug it off, Whirlwind, Seeing Red, Double Tap, Brutality
B: Barricade, Rampage+, Armaments+, Carnage, Ghostly Armor, Flame Barrier, Pommel Strike+, Drop Kick, Demon Form, Second Wind
Silent
S: Neutralize+, Adrenaline+
A: Well Laid Plans, Tools of the Trade, Noxious Fumes, Terror, Heel Hook, Escape Plan
B: Dash, Phantasmal Killer+, Blur, Backflip, Expertise+, Bullet Time+
Curses:
S: Clumsy (I remove Strikes/Defends before I get rid of this, honestly!)
Archetypes:
Infinity - many 0 mana draw 1+ (including drop kick and heel hook, but ideally flash of steel), at most three 1 mana draw 2. Powers and exhaust cards to supplement
Block - Barricade, armor cards, Entrench, Shield Slam+
Strength - a strength card, Heavy Blade, Limit Break+
Poison - A poison card, Bane, Catalyst+
Shiv - Accuracy+, shiv cards, Terror (Choke, Finisher)
I'd put Uppercut as a B and Brutality as a B.
I'd put Terror as an A if upgraded, potentially Heel Hook as a B (since it can be situational).
I'd put Apotheosis as S+++++ tier (it's easily the best card in the game because of the path and upgrade flexibility it creates).
I'd also add Exhaust as an IC archetype/sub-archetype based around Corruption/Feel No Pain. It's also relatively easy to incorporate into Block (and Strength to a lesser extent with the right relics).
The more I think about Relics, the harder it is to make a tier list considering their randomness and situational strength.
Just lost back-to-back games with good decks in the making because my first fight was against the Chosen. Yeah, that guy either needs a slight nerf or needs to not be in your first 3 fights.
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Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
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Battle Trance+ into Double Seeing Red+ into Whirlwind+ on the tier 2 Elite boss that's two Orb Walkers. This isn't even fair.
Edit: 144 damage Whirlwind on a fresh 300hp The Maw
Edit Edit: Dreamcatcher just offered me a 4th Seeing Red+ to go with my two Whirlwind+.
Edit the third: the dream is dead =( I died to the Awakened One boss and his adds because in five turns I never drew into the combo pieces =( Several of those turns were heavy draw turns too. Feels bad man.
That fight was fascinating, because he thought he was going to die immediately. But was like "I need nightmare footwork to even have a chance", and drew for it. But chat remembered he had frozen eye, and thus already knew he actually had both on top!
Then Champ very quickly hit metallicize 18 so he had to kill him almost entirely through Bronze Scales. Took about an hour!
The Escape Goat on
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BeastehTHAT WOULD NOTKILL DRACULARegistered Userregular
Just lost back-to-back games with good decks in the making because my first fight was against the Chosen. Yeah, that guy either needs a slight nerf or needs to not be in your first 3 fights.
Both times I died to that son of a bitch it wasn't even alone.
Yea I get chosen plus ca caw guy a lot and in most of my silent decks that’s 30 hp gone minimum.
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3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
Silent feels much more susceptible to unlucky early game spawns causing unrecoverable positions than Ironclad does. People rag on Bash but its ability to carry your damage in early game can really help.
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Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
Finally got Ascension 3 on the back of the world's most random Snecko Eye deck. The only 3-Energy card I had was Barricade, and the only 2-Energy cards I had were Uppercut, Juggernaut, and Searing Blow (1 each).
If you want your brain to explode while playing this game, just take Snecko Eye when you have half of an Exhaust deck with two Battle Trances and two Shrug It Offs and no real win condition other than stacking Block and hoping to outlast the enemy. Literally every single turn made me feel like Steve Nash in A Beautiful Mind.
Oh, and getting fucking Time Lord when the easiest way to win is to cycle your deck as much as possible. Fuck you, asshole. Fuck you.
+4
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The Escape Goatincorrigible ruminantthey/themRegistered Userregular
edited February 2018
Huh, first time I've seen this.
The auto-upgrade relics are real neat, and combo REAL WELL with Pandora's Box :P
Lost a run because of tree branch cluttering up my deck with garbage, I really need to skip that relic basically every time.
I lost a run earlier when the spinning wheel goblin put a dead branch in my deck
You should have a choice to pass the reward relic imo
I've ran into that fucker 7 times and have gotten: gold x1, remove a card x1, curse x5
WTF game?!
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GoodKingJayIIIThey wanna get mygold on the ceilingRegistered Userregular
Having a real rough night with the silent. My decks are just not coming together.
I keep getting offered Envenoms and Banes, so I take them because that seems like an actual good use of poison damage. But I'm just not getting the relics I need for energy generation.
My second day, my first victory! Against Time Lord, no less.
I can't really take any credit here, though; this build was apeshit.
So yeah. I picked up Demon Form almost immediately on floor 1 from some room or another, but once I spotted Bottled Tornado in a shop, things just got out of hand very quickly. Brutality was late floor 2, Double Tap early floor 3. Feed at first, and then Reaper, helped me sustain decently high life totals before I picked up the mana relics. Ancient Tea Set made first turns against bosses much smoother. Gambler's Chip is a hell of a relic too.
I may have killed Time Lord on my fifth turn, after about ~19 actions. Double Tap+ into Heavy Blade+ with 12 Str from Demon Form will ruin anyone's day. He actually only had 3 HP left at the end of my 4th turn, I probably messed up an earlier kill somehow.
We should compile a list of cards to build archetypes around. More importantly what to take in the early stages of the game. Something like Footwork is almost always good in any deck where maybe Catalyst is great, but not as a first pick.
The card tier list I posted on page 1 has a lot of info on which cards fit which archetypes. It's a bit out of date and obviously the tiering is very subjective, but it doesn't feel like it'd be that hard to start with that and build more of a early/midgame guide for picks.
That list is insane. It massively overrates basically every single 0-cost card. Clash is trash. Anger is literally worse than a Strike. Preparation is a do-nothing card with a downside, unless you have synergy. Similarly, fantastic high-cost cards like Flame Barrier, Dash, Predator, Leg Sweep, and Shock Wave are all rated super low, even though they're incredibly solid cards. And then some baffling choices like saying True Grit is worse than a strike or defend. Or that Immolate is even potentially not trash.
Yet another turn 1 infinite deck as I climb the ascension ladder. MVP of the run was Pandora's box.
If I hadn't taken that stupid Toolbox relic, I would have lived the dream of cycling infinite finesse/heel hook.
I see a tier list floating around. Heel Hook should be tier A for silent. Your first upgrade is always going to be Neutralize and your deck should be small enough that you neutralize every other turn (or 100 times in the same turn ).
We should compile a list of cards to build archetypes around. More importantly what to take in the early stages of the game. Something like Footwork is almost always good in any deck where maybe Catalyst is great, but not as a first pick.
The card tier list I posted on page 1 has a lot of info on which cards fit which archetypes. It's a bit out of date and obviously the tiering is very subjective, but it doesn't feel like it'd be that hard to start with that and build more of a early/midgame guide for picks.
That list is insane. It massively overrates basically every single 0-cost card. Clash is trash. Anger is literally worse than a Strike. Preparation is a do-nothing card with a downside, unless you have synergy. Similarly, fantastic high-cost cards like Flame Barrier, Dash, Predator, Leg Sweep, and Shock Wave are all rated super low, even though they're incredibly solid cards. And then some baffling choices like saying True Grit is worse than a strike or defend. Or that Immolate is even potentially not trash.
Do you mean prepared? Prepared+ is an amazing card that needs no synergy. I try to pick up one or two in my runs. I'll grab 1 early and 2 if I start seeing synergy cards. You draw more cards each turn than you typically play in the early game and your deck is still full of strikes and defends. Prepared lets you cycle them. And if you happen to pick up tactician at some point you basically just win the game.
Now acrobatics is definitely a card that requires synergy to be good. But with the new card expertise, making a deck that cycles itself repeated is extremely easy and the card that makes it happen is prepared+.
Yeah whoops, Prepared. And yes, Prepared+ is a pretty good card, with a minor downside. But that spreadsheet just lists Prepared, doesn't say it's a priority upgrade, and has no note like "MUST BE UPGRADED" like it does for True Grit, so I'm assuming the person who made it thinks Prepared, unupgraded, is good. Which it is not.
It's definitely a priority for upgrade, but the card fits 1x into every silent deck. I think it's good to grab one as early as possible. It costs nothing to have in your deck (but yes it does nothing un upgraded)
It's definitely a priority for upgrade, but the card fits 1x into every silent deck. I think it's good to grab one as early as possible. It costs nothing to have in your deck (but yes it does nothing un upgraded)
It costs a card in your hand. This is USUALLY not an issue, unless you have something that gives you mana, a bunch of 0-cost cards (as that tier lists suggests you do... Swift Strike? Seriously?) or just too many Dazes (which you can discard but then they don't exhaust), in which case it's a serious problem. On top of that, spending an upgrade to dig one single card further is... not valuable.
I'll take a Prepared+ if it's offered. I'll almost never take just a Prepared, unless I'm going HARD on discard synergies or am trying to get a Grand Finale running.
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AuralynxDarkness is a perspectiveWatching the ego workRegistered Userregular
My own quick and dirty tier list, if it has a + you should really upgrade it ASAP. I'll take as many S tier cards as offered, auto pick the first copy of any given A tier cards unless I'm doing a thing, and choose from B tier cards to shore up any holes, particularly in the early game.
Ironclad
S: Offering
A: Body Slam+, Uppercut+, Shrug it off, Whirlwind, Seeing Red, Double Tap, Brutality
B: Barricade, Rampage+, Armaments+, Carnage, Ghostly Armor, Flame Barrier, Pommel Strike+, Drop Kick, Demon Form, Second Wind
Silent
S: Neutralize+, Adrenaline+
A: Well Laid Plans, Tools of the Trade, Noxious Fumes, Terror, Heel Hook, Escape Plan
B: Dash, Phantasmal Killer+, Blur, Backflip, Expertise+, Bullet Time+
Curses:
S: Clumsy (I remove Strikes/Defends before I get rid of this, honestly!)
Archetypes:
Infinity - many 0 mana draw 1+ (including drop kick and heel hook, but ideally flash of steel), at most three 1 mana draw 2. Powers and exhaust cards to supplement
Block - Barricade, armor cards, Entrench, Shield Slam+
Strength - a strength card, Heavy Blade, Limit Break+
Poison - A poison card, Bane, Catalyst+
Shiv - Accuracy+, shiv cards, Terror (Choke, Finisher)
I'd put Uppercut as a B and Brutality as a B.
I'd put Terror as an A if upgraded, potentially Heel Hook as a B (since it can be situational).
I'd put Apotheosis as S+++++ tier (it's easily the best card in the game because of the path and upgrade flexibility it creates).
I'd also add Exhaust as an IC archetype/sub-archetype based around Corruption/Feel No Pain. It's also relatively easy to incorporate into Block (and Strength to a lesser extent with the right relics).
The more I think about Relics, the harder it is to make a tier list considering their randomness and situational strength.
I'm a fan of Enlightenment+ as far as neutrals, as well, for what it's worth. Has some impressive Expensive Ironclad Stuff synergy.
My own quick and dirty tier list, if it has a + you should really upgrade it ASAP. I'll take as many S tier cards as offered, auto pick the first copy of any given A tier cards unless I'm doing a thing, and choose from B tier cards to shore up any holes, particularly in the early game.
Ironclad
S: Offering
A: Body Slam+, Uppercut+, Shrug it off, Whirlwind, Seeing Red, Double Tap, Brutality
B: Barricade, Rampage+, Armaments+, Carnage, Ghostly Armor, Flame Barrier, Pommel Strike+, Drop Kick, Demon Form, Second Wind
Silent
S: Neutralize+, Adrenaline+
A: Well Laid Plans, Tools of the Trade, Noxious Fumes, Terror, Heel Hook, Escape Plan
B: Dash, Phantasmal Killer+, Blur, Backflip, Expertise+, Bullet Time+
Curses:
S: Clumsy (I remove Strikes/Defends before I get rid of this, honestly!)
Archetypes:
Infinity - many 0 mana draw 1+ (including drop kick and heel hook, but ideally flash of steel), at most three 1 mana draw 2. Powers and exhaust cards to supplement
Block - Barricade, armor cards, Entrench, Shield Slam+
Strength - a strength card, Heavy Blade, Limit Break+
Poison - A poison card, Bane, Catalyst+
Shiv - Accuracy+, shiv cards, Terror (Choke, Finisher)
I like offering and all but my number 1 ironclad card is metallize, and its not even on your list.
It is a rare deck that can't be made better by metallize.
BSoB on
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3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
I must be weird for liking Prepared a lot. It lets you cycle through your garbage faster if you're unlucky with card removal events.
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Tynnanseldom correct, never unsureRegistered Userregular
Prepared+ is useful in the right deck, but unupgraded Prepared is worse than having not taken it.
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GoodKingJayIIIThey wanna get mygold on the ceilingRegistered Userregular
I pick prepared a lot. Always felt like it gave me another chance at getting what I need. Maybe I’m wrong?
I pick prepared a lot. Always felt like it gave me another chance at getting what I need. Maybe I’m wrong?
So generally, un-upgraded prepared isn't good. It just gets you one card, at the cost of one in your hand. If you didn't have Prepared, you would have just drawn that extra card instead of Prepared.
That said, I kind of like it too. There's just a lot of times that I want to be discarding a single card or so as Silent, or even just want to be playing a 0-cost card. So it's not the worst thing ever to pick, and it's quite nice upgraded.
Tynnanseldom correct, never unsureRegistered Userregular
If I pick up Tactician, I'll snag a Prepared+ if I see one (but not before then unless I, say, got Pandora's Box into Underhanded Strikes). But I'd prefer to rely on Tools of the Trade and Acrobatics for my discard.
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Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
I pick prepared a lot. Always felt like it gave me another chance at getting what I need. Maybe I’m wrong?
So generally, un-upgraded prepared isn't good. It just gets you one card, at the cost of one in your hand. If you didn't have Prepared, you would have just drawn that extra card instead of Prepared.
That said, I kind of like it too. There's just a lot of times that I want to be discarding a single card or so as Silent, or even just want to be playing a 0-cost card. So it's not the worst thing ever to pick, and it's quite nice upgraded.
I feel like there are times where unnecessary discards can actually hurt you, but I'm struggling to think of when, so I might be mistaken?
I pick prepared a lot. Always felt like it gave me another chance at getting what I need. Maybe I’m wrong?
So generally, un-upgraded prepared isn't good. It just gets you one card, at the cost of one in your hand. If you didn't have Prepared, you would have just drawn that extra card instead of Prepared.
That said, I kind of like it too. There's just a lot of times that I want to be discarding a single card or so as Silent, or even just want to be playing a 0-cost card. So it's not the worst thing ever to pick, and it's quite nice upgraded.
I feel like there are times where unnecessary discards can actually hurt you, but I'm struggling to think of when, so I might be mistaken?
Whenever you end your turn with excess energy, that's a Bad Thing (unless you have Ice Cream Cone, of course). If you discarded cards during your turn, it can contribute to that a lot.
Actually, doesn't Time Lord gain a stack if you play a card? That's probably what I'm thinking of.
Playing cards unnecessarily against Time Lord is bad, yeah. There are times when you save energy against them just because it's not the most efficient card you have to deal damage or whatever.
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Edit: oh bollocks, he was intangible. Oh well, next round I did Seeing Red+ into Double Tap into 5 mana Whirlwind+. Still face melted.
Inquisitor77: Rius, you are Sisyphus and melee Wizard is your boulder
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Bookish Stickers - Mrs. Rius' Etsy shop with bumper stickers and vinyl decals.
Huh. I'm almost certain I've seen a 999 body slam before, so it can't just be that
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I'd put Uppercut as a B and Brutality as a B.
I'd put Terror as an A if upgraded, potentially Heel Hook as a B (since it can be situational).
I'd put Apotheosis as S+++++ tier (it's easily the best card in the game because of the path and upgrade flexibility it creates).
I'd also add Exhaust as an IC archetype/sub-archetype based around Corruption/Feel No Pain. It's also relatively easy to incorporate into Block (and Strength to a lesser extent with the right relics).
The more I think about Relics, the harder it is to make a tier list considering their randomness and situational strength.
I've done a 999 body slam 2 patches ago and it was fine. Maybe this patch?
Sounds like The Champ still reigns supreme
Currently DMing: None
Characters
[5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
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Edit: 144 damage Whirlwind on a fresh 300hp The Maw
Edit Edit: Dreamcatcher just offered me a 4th Seeing Red+ to go with my two Whirlwind+.
Edit the third: the dream is dead =( I died to the Awakened One boss and his adds because in five turns I never drew into the combo pieces =( Several of those turns were heavy draw turns too. Feels bad man.
Inquisitor77: Rius, you are Sisyphus and melee Wizard is your boulder
Tube: This must be what it felt like to be an Iraqi when Saddam was killed
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Champ seems to have a thing for busting the game.
https://clips.twitch.tv/DrabDirtyStorkOSkomodo
Then Champ very quickly hit metallicize 18 so he had to kill him almost entirely through Bronze Scales. Took about an hour!
I lost a run earlier when the spinning wheel goblin put a dead branch in my deck
You should have a choice to pass the reward relic imo
Both times I died to that son of a bitch it wasn't even alone.
If you want your brain to explode while playing this game, just take Snecko Eye when you have half of an Exhaust deck with two Battle Trances and two Shrug It Offs and no real win condition other than stacking Block and hoping to outlast the enemy. Literally every single turn made me feel like Steve Nash in A Beautiful Mind.
Oh, and getting fucking Time Lord when the easiest way to win is to cycle your deck as much as possible. Fuck you, asshole. Fuck you.
The auto-upgrade relics are real neat, and combo REAL WELL with Pandora's Box :P
I've ran into that fucker 7 times and have gotten: gold x1, remove a card x1, curse x5
WTF game?!
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I keep getting offered Envenoms and Banes, so I take them because that seems like an actual good use of poison damage. But I'm just not getting the relics I need for energy generation.
Most of these times are shortly after the first area boss
I can't really take any credit here, though; this build was apeshit.
So yeah. I picked up Demon Form almost immediately on floor 1 from some room or another, but once I spotted Bottled Tornado in a shop, things just got out of hand very quickly. Brutality was late floor 2, Double Tap early floor 3. Feed at first, and then Reaper, helped me sustain decently high life totals before I picked up the mana relics. Ancient Tea Set made first turns against bosses much smoother. Gambler's Chip is a hell of a relic too.
I may have killed Time Lord on my fifth turn, after about ~19 actions. Double Tap+ into Heavy Blade+ with 12 Str from Demon Form will ruin anyone's day. He actually only had 3 HP left at the end of my 4th turn, I probably messed up an earlier kill somehow.
Inquisitor77: Rius, you are Sisyphus and melee Wizard is your boulder
Tube: This must be what it felt like to be an Iraqi when Saddam was killed
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Dex4Dayz
That list is insane. It massively overrates basically every single 0-cost card. Clash is trash. Anger is literally worse than a Strike. Preparation is a do-nothing card with a downside, unless you have synergy. Similarly, fantastic high-cost cards like Flame Barrier, Dash, Predator, Leg Sweep, and Shock Wave are all rated super low, even though they're incredibly solid cards. And then some baffling choices like saying True Grit is worse than a strike or defend. Or that Immolate is even potentially not trash.
Yet another turn 1 infinite deck as I climb the ascension ladder. MVP of the run was Pandora's box.
If I hadn't taken that stupid Toolbox relic, I would have lived the dream of cycling infinite finesse/heel hook.
I see a tier list floating around. Heel Hook should be tier A for silent. Your first upgrade is always going to be Neutralize and your deck should be small enough that you neutralize every other turn (or 100 times in the same turn ).
Do you mean prepared? Prepared+ is an amazing card that needs no synergy. I try to pick up one or two in my runs. I'll grab 1 early and 2 if I start seeing synergy cards. You draw more cards each turn than you typically play in the early game and your deck is still full of strikes and defends. Prepared lets you cycle them. And if you happen to pick up tactician at some point you basically just win the game.
Now acrobatics is definitely a card that requires synergy to be good. But with the new card expertise, making a deck that cycles itself repeated is extremely easy and the card that makes it happen is prepared+.
It costs a card in your hand. This is USUALLY not an issue, unless you have something that gives you mana, a bunch of 0-cost cards (as that tier lists suggests you do... Swift Strike? Seriously?) or just too many Dazes (which you can discard but then they don't exhaust), in which case it's a serious problem. On top of that, spending an upgrade to dig one single card further is... not valuable.
I'll take a Prepared+ if it's offered. I'll almost never take just a Prepared, unless I'm going HARD on discard synergies or am trying to get a Grand Finale running.
I'm a fan of Enlightenment+ as far as neutrals, as well, for what it's worth. Has some impressive Expensive Ironclad Stuff synergy.
I like offering and all but my number 1 ironclad card is metallize, and its not even on your list.
It is a rare deck that can't be made better by metallize.
So generally, un-upgraded prepared isn't good. It just gets you one card, at the cost of one in your hand. If you didn't have Prepared, you would have just drawn that extra card instead of Prepared.
That said, I kind of like it too. There's just a lot of times that I want to be discarding a single card or so as Silent, or even just want to be playing a 0-cost card. So it's not the worst thing ever to pick, and it's quite nice upgraded.
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I feel like there are times where unnecessary discards can actually hurt you, but I'm struggling to think of when, so I might be mistaken?
Whenever you end your turn with excess energy, that's a Bad Thing (unless you have Ice Cream Cone, of course). If you discarded cards during your turn, it can contribute to that a lot.
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Playing cards unnecessarily against Time Lord is bad, yeah. There are times when you save energy against them just because it's not the most efficient card you have to deal damage or whatever.
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