I'm a big fan of Scott Lynch's works and he seems like a pretty solid fellow, so this sort of respectful approach to writing this sort of character is... well, I like it a lot and it means a lot to me I suppose? so yeah, made my day.
Supreme Court rules in favor of Colorado bakery that refused to bake gay wedding cake.
The problem here for me is that this basically legitimizes discrimination. Like... I can't imagine that this case would even have made it to the highest court if it was regarding something like national origin or religion.
Supreme Court rules in favor of Colorado bakery that refused to bake gay wedding cake.
The problem here for me is that this basically legitimizes discrimination. Like... I can't imagine that this case would even have made it to the highest court if it was regarding something like national origin or religion.
I feel like, if you know about that bakery, and assuming you live in the same State, nevermind city, you probably have heard about it, and that goes double if you're part of the LGBTQ spectrum, that maybe you shouldn't contact a business that discriminates against your community.
It can even come down to a matter of principle - do not give that business one further cent of your money because it has made a clear statement about how they feel about you. I don't want to jump to conclusions, but I'd love to hear the buyer's reason for contacting specifically them.
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minor incidentexpert in a dying fieldnjRegistered Userregular
edited August 2018
As someone who owns a bakery, this shit always bothers me, because I got thoughts on it.
No one should be forced to create art with a message that they are opposed to. I would 100% refuse to put a swastika on a cake because I am a sensible person. But I don't grill everyone who orders normal, run of the mill birthday cakes to see if they're a secret Nazi before I take their order.
If some jackass wants to refuse to write "Happy Gender Transition Day" or whatever on a cake, then fine, whatever. That's his prerogative. But this (like the previous cake that was a big fuckin' issue) was just a case of this numbskull refusing to do a regular-ass cake that he does hundreds of times a year (a wedding cake, or a birthday cake, etc), which would be essentially identical no matter the gender or orientation of the person ordering it -- Just because the customer wasn't a straight, cis person. That's discriminatory, and fuck that.
This is one step removed from an apartment complex refusing to rent to a gay couple because they "don't want to endorse that lifestyle".
minor incident on
Ah, it stinks, it sucks, it's anthropologically unjust
Where the fuck does it say anything about gender transitioning in the bible.
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3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
Even if it's in there, the bible contains all manner of bollocks that we conveniently ignore for the sake of living in modern society.
People who cite anything in the bible, ever, as their literal reason for doing anything, are hypocritical tossers to a one. Follow every rule in there to the letter, or acknowledge that it's not applicable to modern life. Buffet Christianity enrages me.
Where the fuck does it say anything about gender transitioning in the bible.
When I asked this question the response was "where did the Bible say this was the right path for you?" and I realized there was no point in continuing the conversation
Where the fuck does it say anything about gender transitioning in the bible.
When I asked this question the response was "where did the Bible say this was the right path for you?" and I realized there was no point in continuing the conversation
Yeah, there's going to be some bullshit rhetorical answer for whatever you say, whether it's backed up by scripture or not. "Judge not, lest ye be judged" cover 99% of right wing fundamentalist bullshit, for all the fucking good it does.
Where the fuck does it say anything about gender transitioning in the bible.
When I asked this question the response was "where did the Bible say this was the right path for you?" and I realized there was no point in continuing the conversation
Yeah, there's going to be some bullshit rhetorical answer for whatever you say, whether it's backed up by scripture or not. "Judge not, lest ye be judged" cover 99% of right wing fundamentalist bullshit, for all the fucking good it does.
My favorite part of the whole thing was being told "you only think you're happier this way because that's Satan trying to deceive you." Can't argue with that. Literally there's no counterargument when literally everything you say can be dismissed as the work of the devil.
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3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
Where the fuck does it say anything about gender transitioning in the bible.
When I asked this question the response was "where did the Bible say this was the right path for you?" and I realized there was no point in continuing the conversation
Yeah, there's going to be some bullshit rhetorical answer for whatever you say, whether it's backed up by scripture or not. "Judge not, lest ye be judged" cover 99% of right wing fundamentalist bullshit, for all the fucking good it does.
My favorite part of the whole thing was being told "you only think you're happier this way because that's Satan trying to deceive you." Can't argue with that. Literally there's no counterargument when literally everything you say can be dismissed as the work of the devil.
how can they prove their hatred of trans people isn't Satan whispering in their ears
wait they don't care, introspection is for other people
good god i hate fundies
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Zonugal(He/Him) The Holiday ArmadilloI'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered Userregular
I'm a big fan of Scott Lynch's works and he seems like a pretty solid fellow, so this sort of respectful approach to writing this sort of character is... well, I like it a lot and it means a lot to me I suppose? so yeah, made my day.
aaaaaaaaaaa amazing
I had sort of given up hope that another one of these books would come out, although the first two are just such a gift that he doesn't need to write any more if he doesn't want to and I will treasure him forever (and the third is fine)
I'm also envisioning that if Locke and Jean go somewhere comfortable with bisexuality, literally everyone they meet is going to assume they're married and it will be d e l i g h t f u l
And yeah this seems like a great approach to me--he's like, ok I write about shit I don't know about all the time, but honestly I'm pretty good at it cause I do research and have a good imagination, and that shouldn't stop me from writing, so let me do some research here and let's see what happens!
Where the fuck does it say anything about gender transitioning in the bible.
When I asked this question the response was "where did the Bible say this was the right path for you?" and I realized there was no point in continuing the conversation
Yeah, there's going to be some bullshit rhetorical answer for whatever you say, whether it's backed up by scripture or not. "Judge not, lest ye be judged" cover 99% of right wing fundamentalist bullshit, for all the fucking good it does.
My favorite part of the whole thing was being told "you only think you're happier this way because that's Satan trying to deceive you." Can't argue with that. Literally there's no counterargument when literally everything you say can be dismissed as the work of the devil.
how can they prove their hatred of trans people isn't Satan whispering in their ears
wait they don't care, introspection is for other people
good god i hate fundies
Oh see they spend a shit ton of time reading the bible and finding the justifications for their worldview, in addition to going to church where authorities can help them reinforce that confidence in their "truth." Sure I've done just as much study of essays and medical journals and psychological reviews, and social studies, but none of those sources matter because they're not "god's word"
it's really admirable how well the hard right has rehabilitated the image of the Lord of Evil
Yeah he used to whisper all about murder and blood orgies and shit, and now it's all "follow your heart, live your best life, find a sex-positive therapist"
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Zonugal(He/Him) The Holiday ArmadilloI'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered Userregular
As always, my go to response when approached by this type of bullshit is to declare them a bad Christian.
And if they try to double-down I keep calling them a bad Christian.
I'll keep calling them a bad Christian till they take a swing at me and I'll call them a bad Christian for that as well.
I'm a big fan of Scott Lynch's works and he seems like a pretty solid fellow, so this sort of respectful approach to writing this sort of character is... well, I like it a lot and it means a lot to me I suppose? so yeah, made my day.
aaaaaaaaaaa amazing
I had sort of given up hope that another one of these books would come out, although the first two are just such a gift that he doesn't need to write any more if he doesn't want to and I will treasure him forever (and the third is fine)
I'm also envisioning that if Locke and Jean go somewhere comfortable with bisexuality, literally everyone they meet is going to assume they're married and it will be d e l i g h t f u l
And yeah this seems like a great approach to me--he's like, ok I write about shit I don't know about all the time, but honestly I'm pretty good at it cause I do research and have a good imagination, and that shouldn't stop me from writing, so let me do some research here and let's see what happens!
Mostly what I really like is the completely reasonable approach to writing a character with traits he can't personally be familiar with, but still wants to write that character because doing so will be important to someone (who I can confirm exists, that being me, probably), but instead of just going "it'll be fine, I can do this" he reaches out for input.
it's good, it's respectful, and it's a mark of a good author in my opinion. mad respect.
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GrogMy sword is only steelin a useful shape.Registered Userregular
As someone who owns a bakery, this shit always bothers me, because I got thoughts on it.
No one should be forced to create art with a message that they are opposed to. I would 100% refuse to put a swastika on a cake because I am a sensible person. But I don't grill everyone who orders normal, run of the mill birthday cakes to see if they're a secret Nazi before I take their order.
If some jackass wants to refuse to write "Happy Gender Transition Day" or whatever on a cake, then fine, whatever. That's his prerogative. But this (like the previous cake that was a big fuckin' issue) was just a case of this numbskull refusing to do a regular-ass cake that he does hundreds of times a year (a wedding cake, or a birthday cake, etc), which would be essentially identical no matter the gender or orientation of the person ordering it -- Just because the customer wasn't a straight, cis person. That's discriminatory, and fuck that.
This is one step removed from an apartment complex refusing to rent to a gay couple because they "don't want to endorse that lifestyle".
Not to jump on you, but the difference here is that being trans or gay isn't a choice.
Being a Nazi is a choice. Disagreeing with someone's politics isn't rejecting that person's identity, it's rejecting their choices.
If Nazis are discriminated against, they'll mostly just stop being Nazis. If LGBTQ people get discrimated against, they are still LGBTQ.
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minor incidentexpert in a dying fieldnjRegistered Userregular
As someone who owns a bakery, this shit always bothers me, because I got thoughts on it.
No one should be forced to create art with a message that they are opposed to. I would 100% refuse to put a swastika on a cake because I am a sensible person. But I don't grill everyone who orders normal, run of the mill birthday cakes to see if they're a secret Nazi before I take their order.
If some jackass wants to refuse to write "Happy Gender Transition Day" or whatever on a cake, then fine, whatever. That's his prerogative. But this (like the previous cake that was a big fuckin' issue) was just a case of this numbskull refusing to do a regular-ass cake that he does hundreds of times a year (a wedding cake, or a birthday cake, etc), which would be essentially identical no matter the gender or orientation of the person ordering it -- Just because the customer wasn't a straight, cis person. That's discriminatory, and fuck that.
This is one step removed from an apartment complex refusing to rent to a gay couple because they "don't want to endorse that lifestyle".
Not to jump on you, but the difference here is that being trans or gay isn't a choice.
Being a Nazi is a choice. Disagreeing with someone's politics isn't rejecting that person's identity, it's rejecting their choices.
If Nazis are discriminated against, they'll mostly just stop being Nazis. If LGBTQ people get discrimated against, they are still LGBTQ.
Oh, I'm well aware. Which is why I'd be perfectly (legally, morally) justified in refusing service to a known Nazi even if they weren't ordering anything remotely Nazi related.
My point was that refusing to write a message on a cake that you find personally odious is one thing, but refusing service of any kind all together because your potential client happens to be LGBTQ is a whole other, far worse act.
Ah, it stinks, it sucks, it's anthropologically unjust
I'm a big fan of Scott Lynch's works and he seems like a pretty solid fellow, so this sort of respectful approach to writing this sort of character is... well, I like it a lot and it means a lot to me I suppose? so yeah, made my day.
aaaaaaaaaaa amazing
I had sort of given up hope that another one of these books would come out, although the first two are just such a gift that he doesn't need to write any more if he doesn't want to and I will treasure him forever (and the third is fine)
I'm also envisioning that if Locke and Jean go somewhere comfortable with bisexuality, literally everyone they meet is going to assume they're married and it will be d e l i g h t f u l
And yeah this seems like a great approach to me--he's like, ok I write about shit I don't know about all the time, but honestly I'm pretty good at it cause I do research and have a good imagination, and that shouldn't stop me from writing, so let me do some research here and let's see what happens!
Mostly what I really like is the completely reasonable approach to writing a character with traits he can't personally be familiar with, but still wants to write that character because doing so will be important to someone (who I can confirm exists, that being me, probably), but instead of just going "it'll be fine, I can do this" he reaches out for input.
it's good, it's respectful, and it's a mark of a good author in my opinion. mad respect.
Yeah! I think a lot of authors are scared to write about characters with demographics they haven't experienced--and I totally get it, like if you get it wrong (or right!) people are going to be really mean to you on social media or in person, too--but that ends up with a lack of representation. So for him to be like, 'hey, I think it's important to have this sort of person in my setting, so I'm going to figure out how to make it happen' is great!
I'm a big fan of Scott Lynch's works and he seems like a pretty solid fellow, so this sort of respectful approach to writing this sort of character is... well, I like it a lot and it means a lot to me I suppose? so yeah, made my day.
aaaaaaaaaaa amazing
I had sort of given up hope that another one of these books would come out, although the first two are just such a gift that he doesn't need to write any more if he doesn't want to and I will treasure him forever (and the third is fine)
I'm also envisioning that if Locke and Jean go somewhere comfortable with bisexuality, literally everyone they meet is going to assume they're married and it will be d e l i g h t f u l
And yeah this seems like a great approach to me--he's like, ok I write about shit I don't know about all the time, but honestly I'm pretty good at it cause I do research and have a good imagination, and that shouldn't stop me from writing, so let me do some research here and let's see what happens!
Mostly what I really like is the completely reasonable approach to writing a character with traits he can't personally be familiar with, but still wants to write that character because doing so will be important to someone (who I can confirm exists, that being me, probably), but instead of just going "it'll be fine, I can do this" he reaches out for input.
it's good, it's respectful, and it's a mark of a good author in my opinion. mad respect.
Yeah! I think a lot of authors are scared to write about characters with demographics they haven't experienced--and I totally get it, like if you get it wrong (or right!) people are going to be really mean to you on social media or in person, too--but that ends up with a lack of representation. So for him to be like, 'hey, I think it's important to have this sort of person in my setting, so I'm going to figure out how to make it happen' is great!
I think it's also a fear of just... not doing a character justice? Writing a character that you can't relate to at all, and then just resulting in something that perpetuates stereotypes or cliches... the public response is only one factor- knowing that you've just done a shit job writing something is a very disquieting thought. So a lot of authors just... don't do that. don't want to mess up at all, or feel like it's not their place to write such characters as a cishet person etc
I think there's a very solid middle ground that is easily reached if you're not afraid to just... ask for help or thoughts or be willing to show your work to a wider variety of people than you might usually.
I'm definitely of the mind that I'd rather someone stay in their lane than try to write a queer person second-hand and fuck it up. There's more bad rep than good out there and a lot of damage can be done by well-meaning cishets who miss the mark. Not to say that they can't try, but they really really need to be confident they're going to hit the mark.
I'm definitely of the mind that I'd rather someone stay in their lane than try to write a queer person second-hand and fuck it up. There's more bad rep than good out there and a lot of damage can be done by well-meaning cishets who miss the mark. Not to say that they can't try, but they really really need to be confident they're going to hit the mark.
I used to be of this mind, and I think it's entirely valid and fair, but more recently I've come to just appreciate being able to see myself in fiction I read/watch/play. Even if it isn't perfect, or there's some problems, it's still just a very affirming thing that makes me enjoy stuff a great deal more than I might otherwise.
I still get frustrated with poorly written LGBT characters, but mostly when the authors get defensive and double-down rapidly.
oh and of course cis actors playing trans characters is still getting my blood hot every single damn time it happens
I'm definitely of the mind that I'd rather someone stay in their lane than try to write a queer person second-hand and fuck it up. There's more bad rep than good out there and a lot of damage can be done by well-meaning cishets who miss the mark. Not to say that they can't try, but they really really need to be confident they're going to hit the mark.
I used to be of this mind, and I think it's entirely valid and fair, but more recently I've come to just appreciate being able to see myself in fiction I read/watch/play. Even if it isn't perfect, or there's some problems, it's still just a very affirming thing that makes me enjoy stuff a great deal more than I might otherwise.
I still get frustrated with poorly written LGBT characters, but mostly when the authors get defensive and double-down rapidly.
oh and of course cis actors playing trans characters is still getting my blood hot every single damn time it happens
Yeah I think I'd rather see someone make a good faith effort at representation than everyone be scared off because they couldn't *possibly* understand or whatever--I mean, trans people are people; as a genre author you write about pirates or wizards or whatever who have a much more foreign perspective than just someone who happens to maybe not have chromosomes that don't exactly match their gender; the concept that it's impossible or really difficult for a cis person to understand is so alienating and I think paints me as this like incomprehensibly bizarre person, which is...not true!
Plus, there aren't tons and tons of trans authors out there, just with being such a small percentage of the population, so in order to get representation I'm gonna need some non-trans authors to step up and use their imaginations. And yeah of course, read some perspectives of the demographic you're hoping to portray and talk to some people just to be sure you aren't totally off-base.
Plus, there aren't tons and tons of trans authors out there, just with being such a small percentage of the population, so in order to get representation I'm gonna need some non-trans authors to step up and use their imaginations.
You don't need tons and tons of trans authors. You just need to give opportunities to the ones that are out there now. And they are out there. Cis people are more than willing to step up and tell our stories for us, when what they really need to do is step aside and let us do it.
Cis people using their imaginations to write trans stories is what's created most of the stereotypes and other misinformation we have to fight on a daily basis.
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Because of molting?
Twitch (I stream most days of the week)
Twitter (mean leftist discourse)
no because of the two snake dicks
Male kangaroos have a forked penis and female kangaroos have 3 vaginas. Your move.
Now are you talking two dicks belonging to a snake, or two dicks that can move like snakes?
Its actually just two very rude snakes
Two snake detectives
ineedmayo.com Eidolon Journal Updated
I'm a big fan of Scott Lynch's works and he seems like a pretty solid fellow, so this sort of respectful approach to writing this sort of character is... well, I like it a lot and it means a lot to me I suppose? so yeah, made my day.
Same bakery just refused to make a birthday cake for a trans woman
Steam
Looking forward to the further entrenching of "religious exemptions" that come about from this.
It can even come down to a matter of principle - do not give that business one further cent of your money because it has made a clear statement about how they feel about you. I don't want to jump to conclusions, but I'd love to hear the buyer's reason for contacting specifically them.
Steam: TheArcadeBear
No one should be forced to create art with a message that they are opposed to. I would 100% refuse to put a swastika on a cake because I am a sensible person. But I don't grill everyone who orders normal, run of the mill birthday cakes to see if they're a secret Nazi before I take their order.
If some jackass wants to refuse to write "Happy Gender Transition Day" or whatever on a cake, then fine, whatever. That's his prerogative. But this (like the previous cake that was a big fuckin' issue) was just a case of this numbskull refusing to do a regular-ass cake that he does hundreds of times a year (a wedding cake, or a birthday cake, etc), which would be essentially identical no matter the gender or orientation of the person ordering it -- Just because the customer wasn't a straight, cis person. That's discriminatory, and fuck that.
This is one step removed from an apartment complex refusing to rent to a gay couple because they "don't want to endorse that lifestyle".
People who cite anything in the bible, ever, as their literal reason for doing anything, are hypocritical tossers to a one. Follow every rule in there to the letter, or acknowledge that it's not applicable to modern life. Buffet Christianity enrages me.
When I asked this question the response was "where did the Bible say this was the right path for you?" and I realized there was no point in continuing the conversation
Yeah, there's going to be some bullshit rhetorical answer for whatever you say, whether it's backed up by scripture or not. "Judge not, lest ye be judged" cover 99% of right wing fundamentalist bullshit, for all the fucking good it does.
My favorite part of the whole thing was being told "you only think you're happier this way because that's Satan trying to deceive you." Can't argue with that. Literally there's no counterargument when literally everything you say can be dismissed as the work of the devil.
how can they prove their hatred of trans people isn't Satan whispering in their ears
wait they don't care, introspection is for other people
good god i hate fundies
aaaaaaaaaaa amazing
I had sort of given up hope that another one of these books would come out, although the first two are just such a gift that he doesn't need to write any more if he doesn't want to and I will treasure him forever (and the third is fine)
I'm also envisioning that if Locke and Jean go somewhere comfortable with bisexuality, literally everyone they meet is going to assume they're married and it will be d e l i g h t f u l
And yeah this seems like a great approach to me--he's like, ok I write about shit I don't know about all the time, but honestly I'm pretty good at it cause I do research and have a good imagination, and that shouldn't stop me from writing, so let me do some research here and let's see what happens!
Oh see they spend a shit ton of time reading the bible and finding the justifications for their worldview, in addition to going to church where authorities can help them reinforce that confidence in their "truth." Sure I've done just as much study of essays and medical journals and psychological reviews, and social studies, but none of those sources matter because they're not "god's word"
Yeah he used to whisper all about murder and blood orgies and shit, and now it's all "follow your heart, live your best life, find a sex-positive therapist"
And if they try to double-down I keep calling them a bad Christian.
I'll keep calling them a bad Christian till they take a swing at me and I'll call them a bad Christian for that as well.
Mostly what I really like is the completely reasonable approach to writing a character with traits he can't personally be familiar with, but still wants to write that character because doing so will be important to someone (who I can confirm exists, that being me, probably), but instead of just going "it'll be fine, I can do this" he reaches out for input.
it's good, it's respectful, and it's a mark of a good author in my opinion. mad respect.
Not to jump on you, but the difference here is that being trans or gay isn't a choice.
Being a Nazi is a choice. Disagreeing with someone's politics isn't rejecting that person's identity, it's rejecting their choices.
If Nazis are discriminated against, they'll mostly just stop being Nazis. If LGBTQ people get discrimated against, they are still LGBTQ.
Oh, I'm well aware. Which is why I'd be perfectly (legally, morally) justified in refusing service to a known Nazi even if they weren't ordering anything remotely Nazi related.
My point was that refusing to write a message on a cake that you find personally odious is one thing, but refusing service of any kind all together because your potential client happens to be LGBTQ is a whole other, far worse act.
Yeah! I think a lot of authors are scared to write about characters with demographics they haven't experienced--and I totally get it, like if you get it wrong (or right!) people are going to be really mean to you on social media or in person, too--but that ends up with a lack of representation. So for him to be like, 'hey, I think it's important to have this sort of person in my setting, so I'm going to figure out how to make it happen' is great!
I think it's also a fear of just... not doing a character justice? Writing a character that you can't relate to at all, and then just resulting in something that perpetuates stereotypes or cliches... the public response is only one factor- knowing that you've just done a shit job writing something is a very disquieting thought. So a lot of authors just... don't do that. don't want to mess up at all, or feel like it's not their place to write such characters as a cishet person etc
I think there's a very solid middle ground that is easily reached if you're not afraid to just... ask for help or thoughts or be willing to show your work to a wider variety of people than you might usually.
I used to be of this mind, and I think it's entirely valid and fair, but more recently I've come to just appreciate being able to see myself in fiction I read/watch/play. Even if it isn't perfect, or there's some problems, it's still just a very affirming thing that makes me enjoy stuff a great deal more than I might otherwise.
I still get frustrated with poorly written LGBT characters, but mostly when the authors get defensive and double-down rapidly.
oh and of course cis actors playing trans characters is still getting my blood hot every single damn time it happens
Yeah I think I'd rather see someone make a good faith effort at representation than everyone be scared off because they couldn't *possibly* understand or whatever--I mean, trans people are people; as a genre author you write about pirates or wizards or whatever who have a much more foreign perspective than just someone who happens to maybe not have chromosomes that don't exactly match their gender; the concept that it's impossible or really difficult for a cis person to understand is so alienating and I think paints me as this like incomprehensibly bizarre person, which is...not true!
Plus, there aren't tons and tons of trans authors out there, just with being such a small percentage of the population, so in order to get representation I'm gonna need some non-trans authors to step up and use their imaginations. And yeah of course, read some perspectives of the demographic you're hoping to portray and talk to some people just to be sure you aren't totally off-base.
You don't need tons and tons of trans authors. You just need to give opportunities to the ones that are out there now. And they are out there. Cis people are more than willing to step up and tell our stories for us, when what they really need to do is step aside and let us do it.
Cis people using their imaginations to write trans stories is what's created most of the stereotypes and other misinformation we have to fight on a daily basis.