If they're are concerned about leeching and used that as an excuse to gut the auto accept, then they didn't put enough though into solving the problem. IIRC GW2 got around this issue by having the game measure people's contributions. I'm sure they could figure out something that wouldn't fuck up groups, but make it so people could just leech off their fellow players. So if all a player does is just sit afk, the game will register it and not give them credit until they actually contribute.
Though, I didn't run with that addon. So I have no idea how bad it was, but I don't recall seeing to many people that were AFK leeching.
As for the story. If Blizz had though this through, they probably could have handle this mess by giving horde players a choice. They could either stand buy Sylvanas without question or go down a route where they refuse to take part in the really heinous activities. The character would be committed to whatever path they picked. People would be irritated with the fact that the position of Warchief is undergoing a revolving door effect and that this seems like Garrosh 2.0, but they would have some agency and not get rail roaded into being villains because a bunch of blizz writers are assholes and don't get that this ploy is deceptive. I mean how many people wouldn't have bought the game if their choices were generic good guy faction, with generic good guy fantasy races or evil faction with monstrous fantasy races. I'd wager not many.
My brother quit the game but I don't know or care if I was an officer in that guild since it was just me and him since WoD
So I know in a few months it defaults to me if I am still playing as I am still on the fence about getting this Exp
So is there going to be an Old Soldier for Alliance?
...no?
Cool cool. Glad the faction war expansion is exceeding expectations.
Who would that even be, though? Genn or Tyrande I guess, but both of them are kind of not very good at all.
What we need instead is Young Blood. I mean, heck, the whole game could use an infusion of new characters. Like that cool night elf captain at Darkshore who... they just killed off like nothing. Boo, Blizzard. Boo.
That's when she became everyone's waifu or whatever. And then she set fire to Teldrassil and now everyone wants her dead. My how the times have changed.
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
edited August 2018
Heh, a lot of old game content is totally fucked on balance because of the new zone scale system. Quests that involved fights against elites go as follows:
- they are either stupidly easy
- or they are impossible and you have to find a way to cheese the system
In Silverpine when you're running around with Godfrey for example, you basically should not ever fight / engage the elite enemies yourself. Let Godrey and his buddies fight. It'll be slow going, but goddamn if you get aggro you're gonna get the shit kicked out of you and their healing cannot keep up.
I'm about to roll a Death Knight just to see how that whole thing works now. I can only imagine how silly it is.
Edit - Aw it functions properly. Also Death Knights are weird as fuck to play now compared to when I last tried. Which may have been Cataclysm-era?
That's when she became everyone's waifu or whatever. And then she set fire to Teldrassil and now everyone wants her dead. My how the times have changed.
The problem with a lot of wow characters is what the players think of them and what blizzard does to them
Most of them have a veneer of a backstory and ideals then they get trotted out for whatever either die{story or raid boss} or back to the bench
EncA Fool with CompassionPronouns: He, Him, HisRegistered Userregular
question for you guys
some friends of mine are on a different server and faction. If I stay on my current server, but change faction, will I be about to group with them? The factions are not in the same group (Malganis and Argent Dawn)
some friends of mine are on a different server and faction. If I stay on my current server, but change faction, will I be about to group with them? The factions are not in the same group (Malganis and Argent Dawn)
the only two restrictions from grouping are factions and regions (EU/NA)
beyond that you can group with anyone, there's no such thing as server groups anymore.
So is there going to be an Old Soldier for Alliance?
...no?
Cool cool. Glad the faction war expansion is exceeding expectations.
If you think Blizzard will ever, ever give the Alliance a personality beyond "vague good guys by default" after all these years
Well, I have a bridge to sell you.
Especially with Christie Golden on the writing staff now. You will be the close confidant of the real protagonist, Anduin Wrynn, The Goodest And Most Beautiful Boy. He just...he just loves peace so much you guys! ;_;
The shitballs did they do to prot paladins? I have like 4 buttons and they're almost always on cooldown. I don't even have like judgement or anything to fill in the gaps, just, sometimes I'm standing around doing white damage for a good 3-5 seconds.
I don't even think vanilla was this bad, jesus.
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
But people can just manually join and then AFK. What the fuck's the difference? How does removing auto-join actually prevent that? Do they expect party leaders to filter out all the people they know who are AFKers from across all realms? Wut.
Also, if they don't want the group finder page clogged, maybe they should deal with all the run-sellers that clog it up way more.
Because if someone's too lazy to actually do a WQ they're probably also too lazy to go through and actually search for groups, search for all the different names it could be called, filter misspellings, etc. They'll just solo them or not bother at all.
That is a solution of sorts but Blizzard should be stopping and asking why the best solution they could come up with is "make the experience worse to put off the people aren't willing to put up with how bad it is".
So is there going to be an Old Soldier for Alliance?
...no?
Cool cool. Glad the faction war expansion is exceeding expectations.
Why would there be?
Blizzard has said on many occasions that they don’t do cutscenes/cinematic based on the idea that both factions get the exact same number of cookies. It’s the exact same outrage that the Horde got when Anduin got that extra cinematic during Legion, and it was just as ridiculous then, too.
So is there going to be an Old Soldier for Alliance?
...no?
Cool cool. Glad the faction war expansion is exceeding expectations.
Who would that even be, though? Genn or Tyrande I guess, but both of them are kind of not very good at all.
What we need instead is Young Blood. I mean, heck, the whole game could use an infusion of new characters. Like that cool night elf captain at Darkshore who... they just killed off like nothing. Boo, Blizzard. Boo.
I love both of those characters so some of us would be all for them.
The shitballs did they do to prot paladins? I have like 4 buttons and they're almost always on cooldown. I don't even have like judgement or anything to fill in the gaps, just, sometimes I'm standing around doing white damage for a good 3-5 seconds.
I don't even think vanilla was this bad, jesus.
I mained a prot paladin for all of Legion. Other than losing their artifact trait, I'm not aware of any major changes to the spec.
I guess it depends on what you're fighting.
On a tough raid boss that requires some planning and forethought put into skill use, yes you might have some skill downtime. You need to save your Shield of the Righteous for those big hits that you know are coming. Don't just spam away all your charges for the damage.
If you're just fighting world trash, you should be pulling like 10+ mobs at a time and killing them all with your infinite procs of Avenger's Shield.
Hey, now. I raised Anduin. He's like my nephew at this point.
Or I'm like his crazy effective, god-murdering cool uncle.
Hey, I have too, except I'm his insane troll dad.
This adds yet another layer to the insanity that is the current story. My Horde character has probably worked more closely with Anduin than with Sylvanas over the recent years. Just in Pandaria alone we worked with him more than we have with Sylvanas in maybe the entire Horde WoW experience.
The shitballs did they do to prot paladins? I have like 4 buttons and they're almost always on cooldown. I don't even have like judgement or anything to fill in the gaps, just, sometimes I'm standing around doing white damage for a good 3-5 seconds.
I don't even think vanilla was this bad, jesus.
I mained a prot paladin for all of Legion. Other than losing their artifact trait, I'm not aware of any major changes to the spec.
I guess it depends on what you're fighting.
On a tough raid boss that requires some planning and forethought put into skill use, yes you might have some skill downtime. You need to save your Shield of the Righteous for those big hits that you know are coming. Don't just spam away all your charges for the damage.
If you're just fighting world trash, you should be pulling like 10+ mobs at a time and killing them all with your infinite procs of Avenger's Shield.
That's the thing though.
Other than SotR, all I have is consecrate, avengers shield, and HotR. And when I don't have the ability to pull 10+ mobs I'm sitting there with large spans of time not having buttons to click, at all.
Maybe a heal, bubble, or other cooldown but even then I don't need to click them.
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
The shitballs did they do to prot paladins? I have like 4 buttons and they're almost always on cooldown. I don't even have like judgement or anything to fill in the gaps, just, sometimes I'm standing around doing white damage for a good 3-5 seconds.
I don't even think vanilla was this bad, jesus.
Prot paladins didn't really change much between Legion and BFA. What talent build are you running?
Judgement has a really short cooldown, you should pretty much always have something to press.
The shitballs did they do to prot paladins? I have like 4 buttons and they're almost always on cooldown. I don't even have like judgement or anything to fill in the gaps, just, sometimes I'm standing around doing white damage for a good 3-5 seconds.
I don't even think vanilla was this bad, jesus.
Prot paladins didn't really change much between Legion and BFA. What talent build are you running?
Judgement has a really short cooldown, you should pretty much always have something to press.
I don't even have judgement in my spellbook anymore!
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
That's a bug if true, you should have it. It reduces the remaining CD on SOTR for every use, and it's your hardest hitting ability to boot.
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EncA Fool with CompassionPronouns: He, Him, HisRegistered Userregular
The shitballs did they do to prot paladins? I have like 4 buttons and they're almost always on cooldown. I don't even have like judgement or anything to fill in the gaps, just, sometimes I'm standing around doing white damage for a good 3-5 seconds.
I don't even think vanilla was this bad, jesus.
Prot paladins didn't really change much between Legion and BFA. What talent build are you running?
Judgement has a really short cooldown, you should pretty much always have something to press.
I don't even have judgement in my spellbook anymore!
When I re-speced, I had to track it down as it got cut from my bar (i think its coded as a new move). It should be somewhere in the middle of your spellbook near the bottom left.
But, yeah. Prot was my favorite, even with multiple judgment charges it is both super boring now and super low damage compared to the already low damage I did previously.
Yeah, you should definitely still have Judgement. And it not only reduces the CD on Shield of the Righteous, but it also reduces the cooldown on Consecrate too I'm pretty sure. And I think it can be talented or something to reduce the cooldown on your instant cast heal. I forget what the heal spell is called. Or maybe that was tied to the artifact. That might be gone.
But regardless, Judgement is the key to everything. It's your "fill spell" and should be used in between casts of everything else, and using it reduces the cooldown of at least one, and maybe more spells.
Yeah that's what I was wondering, I didn't have any filler and I sat there and tore through my spell book to find it last night and even had my roommate come over and look and they didn't see it either.
I probably just need to swap specs, this happened in legion with judgement too IIRC.
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
Yeah, you should definitely still have Judgement. And it not only reduces the CD on Shield of the Righteous, but it also reduces the cooldown on Consecrate too I'm pretty sure. And I think it can be talented or something to reduce the cooldown on your instant cast heal. I forget what the heal spell is called. Or maybe that was tied to the artifact. That might be gone.
But regardless, Judgement is the key to everything. It's your "fill spell" and should be used in between casts of everything else, and using it reduces the cooldown of at least one, and maybe more spells.
Nope, it only ever works on SOTR. There's nothing you can do to reduce the CD of Consecrate - nor do you need to, it's only 4.5 seconds with a 12 sec duration. You can talent SOTR to reduce the CD of your self heal, not Judgement, which is not bad for a single target talent but far overshadowed by Last Defender on any remotely AOE situation.
Definitely right on about Judgement being the key though. Every single other ability takes a backseat to using Judgement the moment it comes off CD, even ahead of Avenger's Shield.
That pretty much goes along with my comment from yesterday.
We don't really even know what the stakes of this war are. What are we fighting for, really? What's the end goal here?
Sylvanas is mad and wants to stop the Alliance from having Azerite and so she torches Teldrassil. But why? Why does she care? Why does it matter if the Alliance has Azerite or not? There's plenty to go around. The entire earth is spitting up Azerite everywhere you look. Or so we're being told. That's what all those island adventures in BfA are about. Going to a random spot and finding a chunk of Azerite that has worked its way to the surface.
So why is this war even happening, and what's the goal?
Sylvanas is fighting for the existence of the Horde, which would be a noble goal of the war weren’t started pre-emptively by the then-defending side. She started a war under the pretense that of the Alliance had started one, the Horde couldn’t win. Which is probably true.
The existence of the horde isn't being challenged.
Well it is now because Sylvanas burnt down Teldrassil.
But it wasn't until then. Sylvanas is just paranoid and assumed the Alliance will use any advantage to roll in and murder her.
Which we will, now.
Um, Genn already tried.
In the middle of the Legion’s invasion
Which doesn't seem to factor into things ever. The argument became that it never really happened last time it was brought up.
Sylvanas doing bad things isn't enough. Players want a maximum evil with no redeemable qualities.
It's mentioned in the Horde novella as the reason she doesn't trust Anduin to keep the peace.
That pretty much goes along with my comment from yesterday.
We don't really even know what the stakes of this war are. What are we fighting for, really? What's the end goal here?
Sylvanas is mad and wants to stop the Alliance from having Azerite and so she torches Teldrassil. But why? Why does she care? Why does it matter if the Alliance has Azerite or not? There's plenty to go around. The entire earth is spitting up Azerite everywhere you look. Or so we're being told. That's what all those island adventures in BfA are about. Going to a random spot and finding a chunk of Azerite that has worked its way to the surface.
So why is this war even happening, and what's the goal?
Sylvanas is fighting for the existence of the Horde, which would be a noble goal of the war weren’t started pre-emptively by the then-defending side. She started a war under the pretense that of the Alliance had started one, the Horde couldn’t win. Which is probably true.
The existence of the horde isn't being challenged.
Well it is now because Sylvanas burnt down Teldrassil.
But it wasn't until then. Sylvanas is just paranoid and assumed the Alliance will use any advantage to roll in and murder her.
Which we will, now.
Um, Genn already tried.
In the middle of the Legion’s invasion
We discussed this in the last thread I believe. Genn is operating on a personal vendetta against Sylvanas personally and not with approval of the alliance as a whole.
Plus you know, Sylvanas wasn't exactly there helping fight the legion.
Unofficially though, after receiving intelligence of suspicious Horde activity, the Skyfire has been tracking Sylvanas Windrunner's fleet. Genn Greymane and Sky Admiral Rogers, who believed Sylvanas herself was a passenger on one of the ships, chose to attack the fleet. Unable to make contact with the rest of the Alliance fleet, the Skyfire proceeded with their assault.[30] Though their forces managed to board the Forsaken's ships and kill their captains, when they boarded the royal flagship, the Alliance discovered that Sylvanas had already left the ship and that Nathanos Blightcaller was leading a Horde force to sabotage the Skyfire. Genn would face off against Nathanos himself during the defense of the ship, who goaded Genn to fight him using his worgen form.
Greymane gained the upper hand and managed to wound Nathanos,[31] but the battle abruptly ended as the Skyfire was sabotaged by Forsaken boarders and crashed on Stormheim. The Skyfire was destroyed but its crew was able to evacuate before the crash and rallied in the Skyfire Triage Camp while combating the Horde. The Skyfire survivors were evacuated to Greywatch[32] where Genn Greymane oversees the campaign to acquire the [Aegis of Aggramar] and hunt for Sylvanas.
While Alliance adventurers pursue the Aegis, Genn uncovers that the Forsaken means to plague Greywatch like they did Gilneas.
And they're still operating under the view that Sylvanas abandoned them on the Broken Shore and let Varian die on purpose.
Anduin sent his best warship to shadow her, and put the two people in charge who had the most reason to go rogue to try to take her out, which makes Anduin either very stupid or he really wanted them to attack.
The fact that Genn and Rodgers weren’t punished afterward speaks volumes to Sylvanas (and Saurfang as well when she points it out). All I can find is that Anduin shook his finger at them for being naughty.
As to the reason she was there, it literally did not matter. Nobody beyond Sylvanas herself knew what her plan was (even Nathanos didn’t know).
As for Greywatch, was this before or after Genn attacked the Forsaken fleet?
They went after Sylvanas because she got their king killed as far as they could tell, plus Genn's whole revenge thing. After they failed to find her, Genn uncovered the part about plaguing Greywatch like they did Gilneas. Reading that wiki it sounds like they were sent to find the Aegis and ran into the horde fleet. Genn decided to follow her unofficially, not Anduin.
Also their actions weren't just ignored, although whether this counts as punishment or not is up to you.
Sometime after the campaign in Stormheim, High King Anduin Wrynn rebuked Sky Admiral Rogers and Genn Greymane for taking his assignment much further than he had ordered.[33]
I don't want sylvanas to be mustache twirling evil but that's certainly how she seems to keep getting written. The people going after her have no reason to think otherwise.
The rebuke is the whole "wagging finger" bit that I referenced, and the lack of any real punishment is referenced in the novella as Sylvanas's reason.
As for the orders to follow the Forsaken fleet, per the quest "Making The Rounds:"
Sky Admiral Rogers says: Our official orders are to escort you to Stormheim and ensure your success on this trial.
Sky Admiral Rogers says: Unofficially, however, we have another mission...
Sky Admiral Rogers says: The 7th Legion. The toughest men and women the Alliance have to offer. They, too, have come on direct orders from the king.
Sky Admiral Rogers says: Three days ago, the Forsaken fleet set sail from Durotar, heading straight for the Broken Isles. We think Sylvanas Windrunner herself may be among them.
Sky Admiral Rogers says: We are to track them from a safe distance. We may engage, but only if the situation demands.
Sky Admiral Rogers says: I strongly suspect the situation will demand it.
Ah okay, they were sent to shadow the fleet, my mistake. But I see no problem with the shadowing, the horde had just seemingly gotten Varian killed and Sylvanas isn't exactly known for her peace loving attitude. The actual attack is Genn going in hard for revenge and also because Sylvanas got Varian killed. I don't think Anduin is the type to wink wink send someone on a mission with the intent of them killing someone. Genn had authority in the situation and chose to act. He shouldn't have gone as ham as he did, but what kind of punishment do you think he deserves for that? He did stop Sylvanas from doing some shady ass shit with Eyir and the Horde were going to use chemical weapons on Greywatch. He was acting with the knowledge that this lady had invaded his nation, murdered his kid, and abandoned his king to die. What sort of punishment does Sylvanas deserve for attempting to trap Eyir in a soulcage?
Is Sylvanas trying to use Genn's revenge for her terrible actions as some justification for murdering hundreds of innocents and burning down Teldrassil? We can't have peace because that werewolf I royally pissed off won't have it? Well she could always step down and submit to being judged for her actions, but she refuses to do that and just wants to bring everyone else under her command.
To be fair I didn't see a problem with the shadowing either. His choice of commanders was absolutely terrible because of the reasons you outlined, if Anduin didn't know that Genn was going to force the engagement, he's the biggest idiot in the franchise.
But, those reasons are also why Sylvanas was right. Even during the middle of a massive demon invasion, Genn decided to risk the Alliance flagship to get revenge on her. Could she trust that Anduin would have even tried to keep his most trusted adviser on a short leash afterward?
And, as she pointed out, even if it wasn't Genn going after her, there's plenty of bad blood on both sides of the aisle. Yesterday it was Genn, tomorrow it's the Humans going after the Orcs for originally sacking Stormwind.
As for Eyir, any punishment would most likely be up to Odyn, and he really doesn't seem to care since he keeps urging on the Forsaken and Worgen to keep fighting without jumping in on the Worgen side.
I don't think Genn was wrong to go after Sylvanas. She got their king killed by abandoning them during the Broken Shore. You could easily also say that even during the middle of a massive demon invasion Sylvanas chose to spend resources on herself instead of for everyone. She had people working to attack Greywatch instead of attacking the legion. Sylvanas clearly didn't have the interests of the living at heart and taking her out would be beneficial to everyone.
Sylvanas says there can't be peace because people like Genn have Anduin's ear, but Genn's only angry driving motivation is to kill her specifically. As far as we can tell does Genn give a shit about the rest of the horde other than the part where they're serving Sylvanas? If she stepped down and submitted to judgement for her crimes, peace would be much more attainable. It isn't Genn's fault, or the fault of the alliance that there can't be peace, it's hers because of the terrible things she keeps doing. Saurfang even yells at her for burning down the tree because it's one further step into cementing war when it didn't have to be that way.
That pretty much goes along with my comment from yesterday.
We don't really even know what the stakes of this war are. What are we fighting for, really? What's the end goal here?
Sylvanas is mad and wants to stop the Alliance from having Azerite and so she torches Teldrassil. But why? Why does she care? Why does it matter if the Alliance has Azerite or not? There's plenty to go around. The entire earth is spitting up Azerite everywhere you look. Or so we're being told. That's what all those island adventures in BfA are about. Going to a random spot and finding a chunk of Azerite that has worked its way to the surface.
So why is this war even happening, and what's the goal?
Sylvanas is fighting for the existence of the Horde, which would be a noble goal of the war weren’t started pre-emptively by the then-defending side. She started a war under the pretense that of the Alliance had started one, the Horde couldn’t win. Which is probably true.
The existence of the horde isn't being challenged.
Well it is now because Sylvanas burnt down Teldrassil.
But it wasn't until then. Sylvanas is just paranoid and assumed the Alliance will use any advantage to roll in and murder her.
Which we will, now.
Um, Genn already tried.
In the middle of the Legion’s invasion
Which doesn't seem to factor into things ever. The argument became that it never really happened last time it was brought up.
Sylvanas doing bad things isn't enough. Players want a maximum evil with no redeemable qualities.
It's mentioned in the Horde novella as the reason she doesn't trust Anduin to keep the peace.
That pretty much goes along with my comment from yesterday.
We don't really even know what the stakes of this war are. What are we fighting for, really? What's the end goal here?
Sylvanas is mad and wants to stop the Alliance from having Azerite and so she torches Teldrassil. But why? Why does she care? Why does it matter if the Alliance has Azerite or not? There's plenty to go around. The entire earth is spitting up Azerite everywhere you look. Or so we're being told. That's what all those island adventures in BfA are about. Going to a random spot and finding a chunk of Azerite that has worked its way to the surface.
So why is this war even happening, and what's the goal?
Sylvanas is fighting for the existence of the Horde, which would be a noble goal of the war weren’t started pre-emptively by the then-defending side. She started a war under the pretense that of the Alliance had started one, the Horde couldn’t win. Which is probably true.
The existence of the horde isn't being challenged.
Well it is now because Sylvanas burnt down Teldrassil.
But it wasn't until then. Sylvanas is just paranoid and assumed the Alliance will use any advantage to roll in and murder her.
Which we will, now.
Um, Genn already tried.
In the middle of the Legion’s invasion
We discussed this in the last thread I believe. Genn is operating on a personal vendetta against Sylvanas personally and not with approval of the alliance as a whole.
Plus you know, Sylvanas wasn't exactly there helping fight the legion.
Unofficially though, after receiving intelligence of suspicious Horde activity, the Skyfire has been tracking Sylvanas Windrunner's fleet. Genn Greymane and Sky Admiral Rogers, who believed Sylvanas herself was a passenger on one of the ships, chose to attack the fleet. Unable to make contact with the rest of the Alliance fleet, the Skyfire proceeded with their assault.[30] Though their forces managed to board the Forsaken's ships and kill their captains, when they boarded the royal flagship, the Alliance discovered that Sylvanas had already left the ship and that Nathanos Blightcaller was leading a Horde force to sabotage the Skyfire. Genn would face off against Nathanos himself during the defense of the ship, who goaded Genn to fight him using his worgen form.
Greymane gained the upper hand and managed to wound Nathanos,[31] but the battle abruptly ended as the Skyfire was sabotaged by Forsaken boarders and crashed on Stormheim. The Skyfire was destroyed but its crew was able to evacuate before the crash and rallied in the Skyfire Triage Camp while combating the Horde. The Skyfire survivors were evacuated to Greywatch[32] where Genn Greymane oversees the campaign to acquire the [Aegis of Aggramar] and hunt for Sylvanas.
While Alliance adventurers pursue the Aegis, Genn uncovers that the Forsaken means to plague Greywatch like they did Gilneas.
And they're still operating under the view that Sylvanas abandoned them on the Broken Shore and let Varian die on purpose.
Anduin sent his best warship to shadow her, and put the two people in charge who had the most reason to go rogue to try to take her out, which makes Anduin either very stupid or he really wanted them to attack.
The fact that Genn and Rodgers weren’t punished afterward speaks volumes to Sylvanas (and Saurfang as well when she points it out). All I can find is that Anduin shook his finger at them for being naughty.
As to the reason she was there, it literally did not matter. Nobody beyond Sylvanas herself knew what her plan was (even Nathanos didn’t know).
As for Greywatch, was this before or after Genn attacked the Forsaken fleet?
They went after Sylvanas because she got their king killed as far as they could tell, plus Genn's whole revenge thing. After they failed to find her, Genn uncovered the part about plaguing Greywatch like they did Gilneas. Reading that wiki it sounds like they were sent to find the Aegis and ran into the horde fleet. Genn decided to follow her unofficially, not Anduin.
Also their actions weren't just ignored, although whether this counts as punishment or not is up to you.
Sometime after the campaign in Stormheim, High King Anduin Wrynn rebuked Sky Admiral Rogers and Genn Greymane for taking his assignment much further than he had ordered.[33]
I don't want sylvanas to be mustache twirling evil but that's certainly how she seems to keep getting written. The people going after her have no reason to think otherwise.
The rebuke is the whole "wagging finger" bit that I referenced, and the lack of any real punishment is referenced in the novella as Sylvanas's reason.
As for the orders to follow the Forsaken fleet, per the quest "Making The Rounds:"
Sky Admiral Rogers says: Our official orders are to escort you to Stormheim and ensure your success on this trial.
Sky Admiral Rogers says: Unofficially, however, we have another mission...
Sky Admiral Rogers says: The 7th Legion. The toughest men and women the Alliance have to offer. They, too, have come on direct orders from the king.
Sky Admiral Rogers says: Three days ago, the Forsaken fleet set sail from Durotar, heading straight for the Broken Isles. We think Sylvanas Windrunner herself may be among them.
Sky Admiral Rogers says: We are to track them from a safe distance. We may engage, but only if the situation demands.
Sky Admiral Rogers says: I strongly suspect the situation will demand it.
Ah okay, they were sent to shadow the fleet, my mistake. But I see no problem with the shadowing, the horde had just seemingly gotten Varian killed and Sylvanas isn't exactly known for her peace loving attitude. The actual attack is Genn going in hard for revenge and also because Sylvanas got Varian killed. I don't think Anduin is the type to wink wink send someone on a mission with the intent of them killing someone. Genn had authority in the situation and chose to act. He shouldn't have gone as ham as he did, but what kind of punishment do you think he deserves for that? He did stop Sylvanas from doing some shady ass shit with Eyir and the Horde were going to use chemical weapons on Greywatch. He was acting with the knowledge that this lady had invaded his nation, murdered his kid, and abandoned his king to die. What sort of punishment does Sylvanas deserve for attempting to trap Eyir in a soulcage?
Is Sylvanas trying to use Genn's revenge for her terrible actions as some justification for murdering hundreds of innocents and burning down Teldrassil? We can't have peace because that werewolf I royally pissed off won't have it? Well she could always step down and submit to being judged for her actions, but she refuses to do that and just wants to bring everyone else under her command.
To be fair I didn't see a problem with the shadowing either. His choice of commanders was absolutely terrible because of the reasons you outlined, if Anduin didn't know that Genn was going to force the engagement, he's the biggest idiot in the franchise.
But, those reasons are also why Sylvanas was right. Even during the middle of a massive demon invasion, Genn decided to risk the Alliance flagship to get revenge on her. Could she trust that Anduin would have even tried to keep his most trusted adviser on a short leash afterward?
And, as she pointed out, even if it wasn't Genn going after her, there's plenty of bad blood on both sides of the aisle. Yesterday it was Genn, tomorrow it's the Humans going after the Orcs for originally sacking Stormwind.
As for Eyir, any punishment would most likely be up to Odyn, and he really doesn't seem to care since he keeps urging on the Forsaken and Worgen to keep fighting without jumping in on the Worgen side.
I don't think Genn was wrong to go after Sylvanas. She got their king killed by abandoning them during the Broken Shore. You could easily also say that even during the middle of a massive demon invasion Sylvanas chose to spend resources on herself instead of for everyone. She had people working to attack Greywatch instead of attacking the legion. Sylvanas clearly didn't have the interests of the living at heart and taking her out would be beneficial to everyone.
Sylvanas says there can't be peace because people like Genn have Anduin's ear, but Genn's only angry driving motivation is to kill her specifically. As far as we can tell does Genn give a shit about the rest of the horde other than the part where they're serving Sylvanas? If she stepped down and submitted to judgement for her crimes, peace would be much more attainable. It isn't Genn's fault, or the fault of the alliance that there can't be peace, it's hers because of the terrible things she keeps doing. Saurfang even yells at her for burning down the tree because it's one further step into cementing war when it didn't have to be that way.
She was ordered by the dying warchief to withdraw, not let the horde die for wrynns last stand.
Genn has responsibility for his actions, he's a big boy now. Sylvanas isn't so villainous that she forced him to try and assassinate her, against orders, during a truce, during a fight with a greater evil.
I mean she's done enough "Evil" surely that you don't need to excuse everyone else's actions...surely the alliance is generically the good guys enough, they don't need extra layers of protection?
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Yeah, he's kinda of a jackass seeing he made Helya what she is in the present day.
Let's Play Final Fantasy 'II' (Ch10 - 5/17/10)
Though, I didn't run with that addon. So I have no idea how bad it was, but I don't recall seeing to many people that were AFK leeching.
As for the story. If Blizz had though this through, they probably could have handle this mess by giving horde players a choice. They could either stand buy Sylvanas without question or go down a route where they refuse to take part in the really heinous activities. The character would be committed to whatever path they picked. People would be irritated with the fact that the position of Warchief is undergoing a revolving door effect and that this seems like Garrosh 2.0, but they would have some agency and not get rail roaded into being villains because a bunch of blizz writers are assholes and don't get that this ploy is deceptive. I mean how many people wouldn't have bought the game if their choices were generic good guy faction, with generic good guy fantasy races or evil faction with monstrous fantasy races. I'd wager not many.
Like the change to not let you edit your guild notes, it has to be an officer.
'kay?
PSN: ShogunGunshow
Origin: ShogunGunshow
Pretty sure that's a guild-level setting. Unless they removed the ability to give people permissions to edit their own notes.
So I know in a few months it defaults to me if I am still playing as I am still on the fence about getting this Exp
...no?
Cool cool. Glad the faction war expansion is exceeding expectations.
Who would that even be, though? Genn or Tyrande I guess, but both of them are kind of not very good at all.
What we need instead is Young Blood. I mean, heck, the whole game could use an infusion of new characters. Like that cool night elf captain at Darkshore who... they just killed off like nothing. Boo, Blizzard. Boo.
Do you need any of the alliance characters motivations clarified?
They're all pretty straight forward.
That's when she became everyone's waifu or whatever. And then she set fire to Teldrassil and now everyone wants her dead. My how the times have changed.
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- they are either stupidly easy
- or they are impossible and you have to find a way to cheese the system
In Silverpine when you're running around with Godfrey for example, you basically should not ever fight / engage the elite enemies yourself. Let Godrey and his buddies fight. It'll be slow going, but goddamn if you get aggro you're gonna get the shit kicked out of you and their healing cannot keep up.
I'm about to roll a Death Knight just to see how that whole thing works now. I can only imagine how silly it is.
Edit - Aw it functions properly. Also Death Knights are weird as fuck to play now compared to when I last tried. Which may have been Cataclysm-era?
The problem with a lot of wow characters is what the players think of them and what blizzard does to them
Most of them have a veneer of a backstory and ideals then they get trotted out for whatever either die{story or raid boss} or back to the bench
How are you farming them? Curious. I think I only ever got up to 4 shards.
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
I... think the game is telling me to main him again.
some friends of mine are on a different server and faction. If I stay on my current server, but change faction, will I be about to group with them? The factions are not in the same group (Malganis and Argent Dawn)
the only two restrictions from grouping are factions and regions (EU/NA)
beyond that you can group with anyone, there's no such thing as server groups anymore.
If you think Blizzard will ever, ever give the Alliance a personality beyond "vague good guys by default" after all these years
Well, I have a bridge to sell you.
Especially with Christie Golden on the writing staff now. You will be the close confidant of the real protagonist, Anduin Wrynn, The Goodest And Most Beautiful Boy. He just...he just loves peace so much you guys! ;_;
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Or I'm like his crazy effective, god-murdering cool uncle.
I don't even think vanilla was this bad, jesus.
Uh sorry, as the Battlelord of Odyn's Valajar I have to disagree. Hes pretty cool.
Its throwing the thing out with the other thing
Why would there be?
Blizzard has said on many occasions that they don’t do cutscenes/cinematic based on the idea that both factions get the exact same number of cookies. It’s the exact same outrage that the Horde got when Anduin got that extra cinematic during Legion, and it was just as ridiculous then, too.
I love both of those characters so some of us would be all for them.
I mained a prot paladin for all of Legion. Other than losing their artifact trait, I'm not aware of any major changes to the spec.
I guess it depends on what you're fighting.
On a tough raid boss that requires some planning and forethought put into skill use, yes you might have some skill downtime. You need to save your Shield of the Righteous for those big hits that you know are coming. Don't just spam away all your charges for the damage.
If you're just fighting world trash, you should be pulling like 10+ mobs at a time and killing them all with your infinite procs of Avenger's Shield.
Hey, I have too, except I'm his insane troll dad.
This adds yet another layer to the insanity that is the current story. My Horde character has probably worked more closely with Anduin than with Sylvanas over the recent years. Just in Pandaria alone we worked with him more than we have with Sylvanas in maybe the entire Horde WoW experience.
That's the thing though.
Other than SotR, all I have is consecrate, avengers shield, and HotR. And when I don't have the ability to pull 10+ mobs I'm sitting there with large spans of time not having buttons to click, at all.
Maybe a heal, bubble, or other cooldown but even then I don't need to click them.
Prot paladins didn't really change much between Legion and BFA. What talent build are you running?
Judgement has a really short cooldown, you should pretty much always have something to press.
I don't even have judgement in my spellbook anymore!
When I re-speced, I had to track it down as it got cut from my bar (i think its coded as a new move). It should be somewhere in the middle of your spellbook near the bottom left.
But, yeah. Prot was my favorite, even with multiple judgment charges it is both super boring now and super low damage compared to the already low damage I did previously.
But regardless, Judgement is the key to everything. It's your "fill spell" and should be used in between casts of everything else, and using it reduces the cooldown of at least one, and maybe more spells.
I probably just need to swap specs, this happened in legion with judgement too IIRC.
Nope, it only ever works on SOTR. There's nothing you can do to reduce the CD of Consecrate - nor do you need to, it's only 4.5 seconds with a 12 sec duration. You can talent SOTR to reduce the CD of your self heal, not Judgement, which is not bad for a single target talent but far overshadowed by Last Defender on any remotely AOE situation.
Definitely right on about Judgement being the key though. Every single other ability takes a backseat to using Judgement the moment it comes off CD, even ahead of Avenger's Shield.
I don't think Genn was wrong to go after Sylvanas. She got their king killed by abandoning them during the Broken Shore. You could easily also say that even during the middle of a massive demon invasion Sylvanas chose to spend resources on herself instead of for everyone. She had people working to attack Greywatch instead of attacking the legion. Sylvanas clearly didn't have the interests of the living at heart and taking her out would be beneficial to everyone.
Sylvanas says there can't be peace because people like Genn have Anduin's ear, but Genn's only angry driving motivation is to kill her specifically. As far as we can tell does Genn give a shit about the rest of the horde other than the part where they're serving Sylvanas? If she stepped down and submitted to judgement for her crimes, peace would be much more attainable. It isn't Genn's fault, or the fault of the alliance that there can't be peace, it's hers because of the terrible things she keeps doing. Saurfang even yells at her for burning down the tree because it's one further step into cementing war when it didn't have to be that way.
She was ordered by the dying warchief to withdraw, not let the horde die for wrynns last stand.
Genn has responsibility for his actions, he's a big boy now. Sylvanas isn't so villainous that she forced him to try and assassinate her, against orders, during a truce, during a fight with a greater evil.
I mean she's done enough "Evil" surely that you don't need to excuse everyone else's actions...surely the alliance is generically the good guys enough, they don't need extra layers of protection?