The lack of proper starship battles in GotG dissapoints me every time I get reminded of that movie. Such a wasted opprtunity.
Even the Star Wars Prequels for all their faults managed to put some in there.
Guardians of the Galaxy was a really good movie and didn't need a big starship battle.
Guardians is an okay movie that was went for tell not show when it came to a bunch of the worldbuilding and dimension of the threat.
Guardians made the wise choice that the best way to get people to care about the cosmic Marvel setting was to tell a story about characters the audience cared about, and let us care about the world to the extent that it mattered to those characters.
I just don't think it is an either/or choice on a creative level. Maybe a cgi budget thing.
Eh, they didn't lose that many people in the battle of New York. Remember, in Civil War they play it off like dozens died. I want to say less than 100. Edit: the MCU Wiki claims 74 dead between civilians and police.
Yeah, I know. An invading army turned an incredibly densely populated area into a warzone for like half an hour, without any warning or time to prepare, but that's the angle they took.
The damage done to buildings and infrastructure was massive (as addressed in Homecoming), but the actual loss of life was later downplayed substantially.
Edit2: yes, obviously any loss of life is awful (in setting, at least), but it's not like tens of thousands of lives were lost in a preventable manner.
The Avengers were there both times. Waiting for Danvers to show up from the other side of the galaxy would have been pointless and potentially dangerous.
When Fury saw
People just start evaporating en masse, there was every possibility the Avengers would be included, at which point getting Carol there is probably a priority. She might wind up the only superhero left when as far as Fury knows.
Eh, they didn't lose that many people in the battle of New York. Remember, in Civil War they play it off like dozens died. I want to say less than 100. Edit: the MCU Wiki claims 74 dead between civilians and police.
Yeah, I know. An invading army turned an incredibly densely populated area into a warzone for like half an hour, without any warning or time to prepare, but that's the angle they took.
The damage done to buildings and infrastructure was massive (as addressed in Homecoming), but the actual loss of life was later downplayed substantially.
Edit2: yes, obviously any loss of life is awful (in setting, at least), but it's not like tens of thousands of lives were lost in a preventable manner.
They didn't count all the Skrulls that were killed during the attack. :rotate:
You could go back and make a fun retcon in a film about the secret superhero behind the scenes of the Avengers attack who made sure the casualties were so low.
While Dr. Strange remains my favorite MCU film, if I had the power I would remake it so that:
A) It runs from when Stark is first recovered in the desert about halfway through Iron Man 1 to the start of Thor 3, rather than from the end of Civil War to the start of Thor 3. Whenever Stark speaks to The Ancient One she's using the Time Stone to magically interfere in the other MCU films. Simultaneously using it to fix any continuity errors that have arisen in eight years of movies and limiting loss of life in some of the larger battles.
Trailer did nothing for me. Dunno why, just doesn't.
A lot of the showcased action was a little weightless but I'm in enough on the cast/concept enough that it doesn't really bother me.
There's something of an unstated need to show how Carol is different from our current heroes that is more showcased by her doing her cosmic fire lady thing then punching grannies and green goblin cosplayers does.
I also really like her actual costume twice as much as I hate the tree gear so I'm willing to deal with that for 2/3rds of a flick.
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I don't like the mohawk, and I don't really care about the in-universe reason for it (her helmet moves her hair up and has it sticking out a hole in the top? Whatever.). Nothing against it, it's just not my cup of tea.
I still want the fucking domino mask though.
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
There was also that one kree diplomat or whatever that Nova Prime called in the beginning of GotG.
He was kind of a dick too.
Yondu's big confessional speech to Rocket was also about how he was an escaped Kree slave who hardened his heart to survive, leading to being a shit surrogate father to Peter. They haven't foregrounded it, except on TV, but the idea that the Kree are kind of shit has been floating around in the margins for awhile now.
Marvel are absolutely not going to assume the people watching the trailer have seen Agents of SHIELD.
Don't need to, though. Guardians started out with Nova Prime telling the Kree government that one of their soldiers was still committing genocide on Xandarians despite their peace treaty. The Kree answered, "We already signed your treaty, what more do you want from us?" And Nova Prime presumably knew from experience that, "Abide by it," wouldn't work as an answer.
Was Korath a Kree in GotG? I know he was in the comics, but given how he's not blue in GotG I figured he was just a subordinate of Ronan. It could be space-racist of me to assume all Kree are blue, of course.
Kree come in several colors, and have a fair amount of racism between them in the comics. There's one arc from the 90's where, to avoid sparking a race riot between Blues and Pinks after assassinating the emperor, it was decided to use a robotic Silver Surfer so that neither race could claim the killing blow and thus rightful succession.
To make things more confusing, there were also internal factions that wore blue and pink clothes which were independent of skin color and which also hated each other. Basically the Kree were set up so that at any given time any Kree could be fighting any other Kree, or joining them against any given foe.
Yeah the trailer's doing nothing for me. Danvers is a charisma black hole (and I love Brie Larson), and the mohawk / mask combo looks silly, I actually laughed. The big climax ("...I'm gonna end it") fell super flat as well as being a bad line and oh God this might be the first Marvel dud for me. Day 1 always and forever because they've earned it, but I really hope the movie is better than the trailer.
Yeah the trailer's doing nothing for me. Danvers is a charisma black hole (and I love Brie Larson), and the mohawk / mask combo looks silly, I actually laughed. The big climax ("...I'm gonna end it") fell super flat as well as being a bad line and oh God this might be the first Marvel dud for me. Day 1 always and forever because they've earned it, but I really hope the movie is better than the trailer.
I like the mask/mohawk.
I still think this will be a dud as a quality film. It'll still make a billion dollars and get like 84% on RT.
I would hope, if they make the kree uptight assholes who are actually the bag guys (sure seems like it), it doesn't come with the trite change of making the skrulls sympathetic.
No. Destroy them all.
he loves you.
Ahem. Nah, I think it's entirely possible, especially in a movie like this, for both sides to be assholes.
Why build this damn things? And why show us these fleets if they're going to do fuckall - Guardians of the Galaxy's stupid net thing being a prime example. You said there was an interstellar war, and we have a rogue admiral trying to land on the main rival's planet to destroy it and your fleet of space fighters are just deploying a net? How did you fight this war?! Where are your massive ships, and why didn't they do this before if you're just got the net?
They needed the net to keep Ronan from touching down on the planet. Had the ship crashed and Ronan survived, Xandar would have been lost anyway.
That's a very niche item, wouldn't they have used this every time someone wanted to invade? So surely the big ship would stay in orbit and blast small holes whilst the assault transports land? So Xandar would have had their big guns to return fire which might discourage a single rogue ship...
They're police ships. Capturing and Pacifying criminals is one of the things those ships do, as seen when Quill and company get captured at the beginning of the movie.
Do all Xandar craft build webs? Or just their police/defense force who are armed with purely defensive weapons? Why do the Kree agree to a truce with an army that can only resist?! Where are the Kree ships hunting Ronan's rogue dreadnaught if they're up against something like the Culture where the war has been fought to standstill with only mega weapons and non-violent police actions? Why are they swearing a truce if the Xandar fleet isn't still active?
Xandar most likely weren't expecting a direct attack from Ronan - Without the power stone, which they would have had no idea he had until Quill warned them, it would have been a laughable attack. Again the problem wasn't Ronan's ship, it was the Ronan touching the power stone to the surface. The ships in the movie are the ones they were able to scramble from Xandar itself. By the time the Xandar fleet got there it probably would have been way too late.
Why are the police at war with a foreign power, and how have they been able to do so? And if you can't track ships in hyperspace/the warp to the extent that Ronan's ship can sneak up - why are there no ships guarding your home base, or planetary defences that would react the same way if it were an actual Kree ship, especially if you've just signed a peace treaty (surely you would recall your ships then).
Does Xandar actually police other planets or were those ships the Xandar police? From vague non-MCU mentions of the nova corps, it seems that they are a galactic organisation but which rules they enforce and under what authorisation has always been a little vague.
Definitely be curious to see if Captain Marvel bucks expectations, but feels a bit to me like Marvel just isn't very good at world building - just as the villains are generally a little weak (with some obvious exceptions), and generally there to just to highlight various aspects of the hero, the settings tend to a bit as well. Of course that doesn't matter much with most of the Earthly heros (though I was also disappointed by how they did Wakanda to be honest) but if they want to do Space Opera with alien civilisations vying for control of the galaxy, they need to break out of comfort zone a little.
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jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
Yeah the trailer's doing nothing for me. Danvers is a charisma black hole (and I love Brie Larson), and the mohawk / mask combo looks silly, I actually laughed. The big climax ("...I'm gonna end it") fell super flat as well as being a bad line and oh God this might be the first Marvel dud for me. Day 1 always and forever because they've earned it, but I really hope the movie is better than the trailer.
Add me to the ‘likes the mohawk’ camp. I like how her helmet is like Starlord’s in type (it just materializes around her head when needed) but the mohawk gives it a distinctive look.
The trailer kinda fell flat with me. Too much CGI laser blasts is a bit much with all the quick cuts and close ups. It made it distracting.
I assume from what all you guys are talking about is that the cat is a nod to some arcane comic knowledge, but I didn’t think it was haha funny, just kinda cringe inducing.
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jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
The trailer kinda fell flat with me. Too much CGI laser blasts is a bit much with all the quick cuts and close ups. It made it distracting.
I assume from what all you guys are talking about is that the cat is a nod to some arcane comic knowledge, but I didn’t think it was haha funny, just kinda cringe inducing.
I just thought it was funny seeing Nick Fury pre-Motherfucker-era.
Also, Samuel Ls de-aging cgi makeup is fucking phenomenal.
Why build this damn things? And why show us these fleets if they're going to do fuckall - Guardians of the Galaxy's stupid net thing being a prime example. You said there was an interstellar war, and we have a rogue admiral trying to land on the main rival's planet to destroy it and your fleet of space fighters are just deploying a net? How did you fight this war?! Where are your massive ships, and why didn't they do this before if you're just got the net?
They needed the net to keep Ronan from touching down on the planet. Had the ship crashed and Ronan survived, Xandar would have been lost anyway.
That's a very niche item, wouldn't they have used this every time someone wanted to invade? So surely the big ship would stay in orbit and blast small holes whilst the assault transports land? So Xandar would have had their big guns to return fire which might discourage a single rogue ship...
They're police ships. Capturing and Pacifying criminals is one of the things those ships do, as seen when Quill and company get captured at the beginning of the movie.
Do all Xandar craft build webs? Or just their police/defense force who are armed with purely defensive weapons? Why do the Kree agree to a truce with an army that can only resist?! Where are the Kree ships hunting Ronan's rogue dreadnaught if they're up against something like the Culture where the war has been fought to standstill with only mega weapons and non-violent police actions? Why are they swearing a truce if the Xandar fleet isn't still active?
Xandar most likely weren't expecting a direct attack from Ronan - Without the power stone, which they would have had no idea he had until Quill warned them, it would have been a laughable attack. Again the problem wasn't Ronan's ship, it was the Ronan touching the power stone to the surface. The ships in the movie are the ones they were able to scramble from Xandar itself. By the time the Xandar fleet got there it probably would have been way too late.
Why are the police at war with a foreign power, and how have they been able to do so?
The Nova Corp are a galactic peacekeeping force. They're basically militarized cops. (Which, if you want to have a debate about the ethics of that, then sure. But that's basically the concept.)
And if you can't track ships in hyperspace/the warp to the extent that Ronan's ship can sneak up - why are there no ships guarding your home base, or planetary defences that would react the same way if it were an actual Kree ship, especially if you've just signed a peace treaty (surely you would recall your ships then).
Well, again, Ronan was a single ship, that without the power stone, wouldn't have been a major threat to Xandar. He would have shown up, got his ass blasted out of the sky, and his crusade would have ended there with far less casualties than he'd like. Ronan was a zealot, but he wasn't suicidal. There wasn't any reason to expect him to attack, so relying on the Xandar's defenses wouldn't have been outlandish. (Getting spanked from a unexpected sneak attack has real-world historical precedent, after all.)
Those outlying colonies that Ronan was attacking were probably deemed to be in more need of the defense of military fleets. (Which almost certainly exists, because they have to have something to fight a war with the kree for centuries)
Does Xandar actually police other planets or were those ships the Xandar police? From vague non-MCU mentions of the nova corps, it seems that they are a galactic organisation but which rules they enforce and under what authorisation has always been a little vague.
It sounds like they have a territory they enforce. Those ships were specifically Xandar's police/defense force, as they mention they need to scramble them when they get warned about Ronan incoming.
Imagine if some other country managed to sneak attack New York City. It’d take the better part of a day to mobilize any rapid response military assets. Even longer for heavy equipment. The only thing you’d have in any immediate time is police.
Which is kind of what we kind of see, all those guys were Nova cops, right? Unless their police and military is the same?
Either way, the power stone was a game changer, like having a nuke. You can only do so much damage to New York City before the US military responds in force, but if all you have to do is light up a nuke in the center, you don’t need a large force.
The assumption is that Ronan couldn’t have done it without the stone, because the plot starts off with Thanos promising to destroy Xandar for the orb. Ronan also abandoned the Kiln prison when they were told the Nova forces were moving in to retake it. This all implies that his force would have eventually been defeated by the Nova Corp in a direct fight.
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ShadowfireVermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered Userregular
Out of curiosity, how much of this in the actual comics, and how much is filling in the gaps? I had a quick google about the Xandar/Kree conflict in the MCU and it seemed that even in the comics it's just a 1000 year old fight.
And whilst it's a ridiculous position to be in, I think I'm probably in the majority where everything I know about the universe is from the movies, Agents of SHIELD, a scattering of cartoons and perhaps Spiderman #1 when they were giving it away free with everything when the first movie came out. Infact, that might actually be the only Marvel comic I've read.
Similar position with DC (I've read Watchmen!), but seen more cartoons and generally space stuff is more powered suits and cosmic abilities that let you punch stuff in space (often giant men and monsters rather battlecruisers), which has probably also coloured my opinions at a bit. But can't say I ever remember seeing a fleet battle image from comics, when I'd have thought that kind of thing would have be fairly commonly shared.
Though thinking about it, I do wonder if there's some element of preventing brand dilution between Star Wards and Marvel going forward now they're owned by the same company.
The lack of proper starship battles in GotG dissapoints me every time I get reminded of that movie. Such a wasted opprtunity.
Even the Star Wars Prequels for all their faults managed to put some in there.
Guardians of the Galaxy was a really good movie and didn't need a big starship battle.
I appreciate your opinions on just about everything, Bogart. I mean you've been around for a long time.
With that said, every movie set in space benefits from a big starship battle.
I am in the business of saving lives.
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Dark Raven XLaugh hard, run fast,be kindRegistered Userregular
Is everyone just blanking on the really big starship battle in Guardians of the Galaxy or what? Cause there most definitely is one. Its like 20 minutes long. It even features Peter Serafinowicz!
Is everyone just blanking on the really big starship battle in Guardians of the Galaxy or what? Cause there most definitely is one. Its like 20 minutes long. It even features Peter Serafinowicz!
It wasn't in space so it apparently doesn't count.
Is everyone just blanking on the really big starship battle in Guardians of the Galaxy or what? Cause there most definitely is one. Its like 20 minutes long. It even features Peter Serafinowicz!
Yup, had to google it. Though only one of those starships was really big. Think that scene must have slipped through the totally ludicrous web of memory somehow.
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I just don't think it is an either/or choice on a creative level. Maybe a cgi budget thing.
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The Avengers were there both times. Waiting for Danvers to show up from the other side of the galaxy would have been pointless and potentially dangerous.
When Fury saw
While Dr. Strange remains my favorite MCU film, if I had the power I would remake it so that:
A) It runs from when Stark is first recovered in the desert about halfway through Iron Man 1 to the start of Thor 3, rather than from the end of Civil War to the start of Thor 3.
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Um, what? Did you just retcon this to see RDJ and Tilda Swinton hang out tongether?
That would also be good.
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A lot of the showcased action was a little weightless but I'm in enough on the cast/concept enough that it doesn't really bother me.
There's something of an unstated need to show how Carol is different from our current heroes that is more showcased by her doing her cosmic fire lady thing then punching grannies and green goblin cosplayers does.
I also really like her actual costume twice as much as I hate the tree gear so I'm willing to deal with that for 2/3rds of a flick.
Come Overwatch with meeeee
I still want the fucking domino mask though.
He was kind of a dick too.
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
Yondu's big confessional speech to Rocket was also about how he was an escaped Kree slave who hardened his heart to survive, leading to being a shit surrogate father to Peter. They haven't foregrounded it, except on TV, but the idea that the Kree are kind of shit has been floating around in the margins for awhile now.
just dropping in to say that
Don't need to, though. Guardians started out with Nova Prime telling the Kree government that one of their soldiers was still committing genocide on Xandarians despite their peace treaty. The Kree answered, "We already signed your treaty, what more do you want from us?" And Nova Prime presumably knew from experience that, "Abide by it," wouldn't work as an answer.
Kree come in several colors, and have a fair amount of racism between them in the comics. There's one arc from the 90's where, to avoid sparking a race riot between Blues and Pinks after assassinating the emperor, it was decided to use a robotic Silver Surfer so that neither race could claim the killing blow and thus rightful succession.
To make things more confusing, there were also internal factions that wore blue and pink clothes which were independent of skin color and which also hated each other. Basically the Kree were set up so that at any given time any Kree could be fighting any other Kree, or joining them against any given foe.
I like mohawks in general, but this one, in the shots we see in the trailer, is not flattering.
The end credits stinger should be:
I disagree
Prepare to be blasted
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I like the mask/mohawk.
I still think this will be a dud as a quality film. It'll still make a billion dollars and get like 84% on RT.
he loves you.
Ahem. Nah, I think it's entirely possible, especially in a movie like this, for both sides to be assholes.
Why are the police at war with a foreign power, and how have they been able to do so? And if you can't track ships in hyperspace/the warp to the extent that Ronan's ship can sneak up - why are there no ships guarding your home base, or planetary defences that would react the same way if it were an actual Kree ship, especially if you've just signed a peace treaty (surely you would recall your ships then).
Does Xandar actually police other planets or were those ships the Xandar police? From vague non-MCU mentions of the nova corps, it seems that they are a galactic organisation but which rules they enforce and under what authorisation has always been a little vague.
Definitely be curious to see if Captain Marvel bucks expectations, but feels a bit to me like Marvel just isn't very good at world building - just as the villains are generally a little weak (with some obvious exceptions), and generally there to just to highlight various aspects of the hero, the settings tend to a bit as well. Of course that doesn't matter much with most of the Earthly heros (though I was also disappointed by how they did Wakanda to be honest) but if they want to do Space Opera with alien civilisations vying for control of the galaxy, they need to break out of comfort zone a little.
They usually are.
Which one?
The trailer kinda fell flat with me. Too much CGI laser blasts is a bit much with all the quick cuts and close ups. It made it distracting.
I assume from what all you guys are talking about is that the cat is a nod to some arcane comic knowledge, but I didn’t think it was haha funny, just kinda cringe inducing.
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
I just thought it was funny seeing Nick Fury pre-Motherfucker-era.
Also, Samuel Ls de-aging cgi makeup is fucking phenomenal.
The Nova Corp are a galactic peacekeeping force. They're basically militarized cops. (Which, if you want to have a debate about the ethics of that, then sure. But that's basically the concept.)
Well, again, Ronan was a single ship, that without the power stone, wouldn't have been a major threat to Xandar. He would have shown up, got his ass blasted out of the sky, and his crusade would have ended there with far less casualties than he'd like. Ronan was a zealot, but he wasn't suicidal. There wasn't any reason to expect him to attack, so relying on the Xandar's defenses wouldn't have been outlandish. (Getting spanked from a unexpected sneak attack has real-world historical precedent, after all.)
Those outlying colonies that Ronan was attacking were probably deemed to be in more need of the defense of military fleets. (Which almost certainly exists, because they have to have something to fight a war with the kree for centuries)
It sounds like they have a territory they enforce. Those ships were specifically Xandar's police/defense force, as they mention they need to scramble them when they get warned about Ronan incoming.
Imagine if some other country managed to sneak attack New York City. It’d take the better part of a day to mobilize any rapid response military assets. Even longer for heavy equipment. The only thing you’d have in any immediate time is police.
Which is kind of what we kind of see, all those guys were Nova cops, right? Unless their police and military is the same?
Either way, the power stone was a game changer, like having a nuke. You can only do so much damage to New York City before the US military responds in force, but if all you have to do is light up a nuke in the center, you don’t need a large force.
The assumption is that Ronan couldn’t have done it without the stone, because the plot starts off with Thanos promising to destroy Xandar for the orb. Ronan also abandoned the Kiln prison when they were told the Nova forces were moving in to retake it. This all implies that his force would have eventually been defeated by the Nova Corp in a direct fight.
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
And whilst it's a ridiculous position to be in, I think I'm probably in the majority where everything I know about the universe is from the movies, Agents of SHIELD, a scattering of cartoons and perhaps Spiderman #1 when they were giving it away free with everything when the first movie came out. Infact, that might actually be the only Marvel comic I've read.
Similar position with DC (I've read Watchmen!), but seen more cartoons and generally space stuff is more powered suits and cosmic abilities that let you punch stuff in space (often giant men and monsters rather battlecruisers), which has probably also coloured my opinions at a bit. But can't say I ever remember seeing a fleet battle image from comics, when I'd have thought that kind of thing would have be fairly commonly shared.
Though thinking about it, I do wonder if there's some element of preventing brand dilution between Star Wards and Marvel going forward now they're owned by the same company.
I appreciate your opinions on just about everything, Bogart. I mean you've been around for a long time.
With that said, every movie set in space benefits from a big starship battle.
It wasn't in space so it apparently doesn't count.
Yup, had to google it. Though only one of those starships was really big. Think that scene must have slipped through the totally ludicrous web of memory somehow.
"I had strings, but now I'm free."
BWAAAAAAAAAWWWM
"There are no strings on me."
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAWM