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She got an appointment set for 10/30. And that is without me going back and saying I was getting concerned that we weren't moving forward.
I told her again that I was 100% committed to going, but she thinks solo first will help her with what she's going through. Still doesn't feel right, but it's what she wants.
And yes, it could very well be repeating a cycle now, but at the moment my line of thinking is closer to Obi's version. If she was still going over there, etc that would be another matter, but on the face of it at least she isn't. And as we've talked she's said outright that she has realized she was making bad choices, had lost her mind (her words, not mine) and was trying to get it back, etc.
I am fully aware I will need some stuff too down the line. For the trust problems this has all caused, if nothing else. But right now her and my son need some stability. My stuff can happen later.
I don't see any real reason why you can't engage in your own therapy right now. She's decided she wants to do that. Why can't you as well?
This, and I don't see where seeing a couples counseling has anything to do with her individual counseling. It won't cause any problems in the process. The focus is not on the individuals, but in how you interact with each other. Her therapy might help with that or it might not. The priorities of the therapist are just very different leading to a very different process. Food for thought is all.
I guess I would just say this now: make sure one more chance is really only one more chance.
Oh, I'm there. Believe me. This entire ordeal has been something I will only go through once. I'm barely keeping it together. Repeat trips, I wouldn't make it.
On going for myself, this stuff is expensive! Hers is covered by my insurance as she has some diagnosed conditions, but mine would be out of pocket. Which we could do, but it would put pressure on some things that we don't need. Mine can come later.
Raynaga on
0
Donovan PuppyfuckerA dagger in the dark isworth a thousand swords in the morningRegistered Userregular
She's stringing you along, dude.
+11
CambiataCommander ShepardThe likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered Userregular
I guess I would just say this now: make sure one more chance is really only one more chance.
Oh, I'm there. Believe me. This entire ordeal has been something I will only go through once. I'm barely keeping it together. Repeat trips, I wouldn't make it.
On going for myself, this stuff is expensive! Hers is covered by my insurance as she has some diagnosed conditions, but mine would be out of pocket. Which we could do, but it would put pressure on some things that we don't need. Mine can come later.
Well... keep in mind that if this were a manipulation, she'd give you plenty of time to get comfortable and stable before she tries it again. I'm not saying that's what she's doing, but just that if it comes again, it'll come after you've reinvested yourself heavily, making the cost of leaving greater (and thus making you even more reluctant to leave than you are now)
"excuse my French
But fuck you — no, fuck y'all, that's as blunt as it gets"
- Kendrick Lamar, "The Blacker the Berry"
+2
daveNYCWhy universe hate Waspinator?Registered Userregular
She got an appointment set for 10/30. And that is without me going back and saying I was getting concerned that we weren't moving forward.
I told her again that I was 100% committed to going, but she thinks solo first will help her with what she's going through. Still doesn't feel right, but it's what she wants.
And yes, it could very well be repeating a cycle now, but at the moment my line of thinking is closer to Obi's version. If she was still going over there, etc that would be another matter, but on the face of it at least she isn't. And as we've talked she's said outright that she has realized she was making bad choices, had lost her mind (her words, not mine) and was trying to get it back, etc.
I am fully aware I will need some stuff too down the line. For the trust problems this has all caused, if nothing else. But right now her and my son need some stability. My stuff can happen later.
With all the things you've been going through, you don't need your stuff to happen later, you need it to happen now. But I'll also make an argument from a different tack and say that your mental health is going to be an important factor in helping to provide a stable environment for your son. Plus a good therapist would probably (maybe?) be able to advise on what your son is going through and what you should look out for and how you can help him.
Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
I'd say couple's therapy can indeed wait a little while to see how her therapy goes (no point looking into it if she abandons her therapy after one session) but I'd still be firmly requiring a commitment to it at some point down the line. It's an entirely different thing.
Not to promote being a stalkery jerk, but is there a way for you to confirm that she actually has this appointment, and, if so, actually goes to it (meaning, stays for the duration)? I see two possibilities:
1. She's being honest with you, and is trying to figure herself out. Which is good!
2. She's using your desire for stability and reconciliation as cover with which to see the other guy, and perhaps coordinate her own exit strategy with him.
Given everything that's happened, I don't think she's earned the benefit of the doubt. Some talk and her not stepping out on you for the 3rd time in a month isn't exactly evidence of the situation getting better.
ceresWhen the last moon is cast over the last star of morningAnd the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, ModeratorMod Emeritus
Not to promote being a stalkery jerk, but is there a way for you to confirm that she actually has this appointment, and, if so, actually goes to it (meaning, stays for the duration)? I see two possibilities:
1. She's being honest with you, and is trying to figure herself out. Which is good!
2. She's using your desire for stability and reconciliation as cover with which to see the other guy, and perhaps coordinate her own exit strategy with him.
Given everything that's happened, I don't think she's earned the benefit of the doubt. Some talk and her not stepping out on you for the 3rd time in a month isn't exactly evidence of the situation getting better.
Entirely inappropriate unless the suggestion is that the OP get that confirmation through her or otherwise. Secretly following her or checking her phone? Not okay to tell somebody to do IMO.
edit: That said, I'd probably be very wary if she said no. Considering counseling is part of the terms of staying together for now and trust is the issue, I would think it's fair to ask that.
ceres on
And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
Not to promote being a stalkery jerk, but is there a way for you to confirm that she actually has this appointment, and, if so, actually goes to it (meaning, stays for the duration)? I see two possibilities:
1. She's being honest with you, and is trying to figure herself out. Which is good!
2. She's using your desire for stability and reconciliation as cover with which to see the other guy, and perhaps coordinate her own exit strategy with him.
Given everything that's happened, I don't think she's earned the benefit of the doubt. Some talk and her not stepping out on you for the 3rd time in a month isn't exactly evidence of the situation getting better.
Entirely inappropriate unless the suggestion is that the OP get that confirmation through her or otherwise. Secretly following her or checking her phone? Not okay to tell somebody to do IMO.
edit: That said, I'd probably be very wary if she said no. Considering counseling is part of the terms of staying together for now and trust is the issue, I would think it's fair to ask that.
Admittedly, I worded my post terribly (like whoa), but I'm not suggesting that he simply violate her right to privacy.
There are plenty of ways to get confirmation without doing something stupid/self-destructive/morally wrong. Some are pretty straight forward (bills/statements mailed to the house, the service getting paid through joint finances, etc.). Others require her to put forth some effort to show some minimal honesty (the house phone (if they have one) as the callback number for missed appointments, her producing paperwork or whatever if asked (which, I think, would be fair requests)).
The point is to make sure something like this exists. That it's not "Oh, yeah, I'm totally getting help" without any kind of documentation, or other form of proof, whatsoever.
Putting a brake on things falling apart isn't exactly the same thing as fixing it, but it's a step that was necessary. Not trusting her to follow through with therapy is also not healthy but totally justified and understandable. You should contact your primary care provider and find out if a referral to a licensed therapist or other mental health provider is covered. Often times the insurance company wont cover something until it's a referral of service to a specialist.
I get that having her in therapy feels like the right thing (because it is!) but it's not going to help with your issues, or the shared needs of the relationship. It may be that wrangling her thoughts and sorting out her wants and needs doesn't really heal the relationship. It certainly wont help your end of the relationship, even if it clarifies what she wants. Individually focusing on your mental health might be better than just her going to therapy and the two of you attending couples counseling. You individually seeing professionals and also doing couples is ideal.
It's perfectly reasonable to ask her how she likes her therapist and whether she thinks it's helpful. The only reason I can see for asking whether she went is because often cancellation fees are higher than the actual cost of a session if it's not done far enough in advance. (because insurance probably wont cover short-notice cancellation)
At this point you're two people who used to have a marriage and relationship that wasn't the healthiest. Without communication, effort and desire to fix things she's just a crappy roommate that is exploiting your feelings to avoid the consequences and risks of self-sufficiency. It's kind of understandable, the world is scary. That doesn't mean it's okay to be emotionally abusive. Yes, withholding affection, threatening self harm and being manipulative and dishonest are things I'd consider abuse at least in the context this marriage. It doesn't mean she's being malicious or intentionally hurting you. She's probably distancing herself so it's less painful if the relationship does end.
She has a 19 page packet of new patient paperwork, it's legit. And yeah, no go on the tracking, etc. Either things will move forward, or they won't. Me doing that would not be healthy and wouldn't serve a constructive purpose at this point. Before, I had to figure out what was going on. I know that now, rendering it pointless.
And on the stringing along posts, I'm fully aware that's a possibility. I just don't really see what else I am supposed to do. I won't bail on her. That's what everyone in her life has always done, and I just won't do it.
I will definitely need to address things with myself, as frankly when I'm not at work as a leader or with my wife and son as a source of stability I'm a wreck. I'll get to it eventually.
We have our son's birthday party Sunday. He turned 6 on the 16th. We both took off work and went to the school and had lunch with him on the day of - he had a birthday crown and after the FBI checkpoint (this school should seriously run embassy security in Yemen or something, its crazy) we got to sit with him and his class to eat and pass put cupcakes. His school is seriously amazing. He had a Fun Run and I went as I closed and she couldn't get off. I was expecting some safety cones and teacher refs. They hired a company that does them professionally, had generators running a DJ booth and field speakers, had an announcer that introduced each class like a pro wrestler, and raised 46,000 dollars in a 1 hour event. I don't even know how that works for an Elementary school.
We'll see how the birthday party goes, its family, work friends, and school friends for him. All the family and work friends know the broadstrokes of the past 60 days.
It will be interesting?
Raynaga on
+4
ceresWhen the last moon is cast over the last star of morningAnd the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, ModeratorMod Emeritus
To get into the school, you have to hit a buzzer outside the building. They intercom you and allow you into a foyer. The foyer goes into the main office and has another pair of doors that also have to be buzzed through.
In the office they scan your driver's license and pull up your profile. You say why you are there, and they print color coded, dated badges with with your DL photo, child's name, and purpose of visit. They then release you to the foyer and then buzz you past the second doors into the school proper.
The whole time this is going on, there is an armed Sheriff's deputy in the parking lot and in the foyer. We are in a super low crime rate area, btw, and the kids don't go through all this, it's just during school hours during the day.
I will definitely need to address things with myself, as frankly when I'm not at work as a leader or with my wife and son as a source of stability I'm a wreck. I'll get to it eventually.
You keep saying this, but it's okay right now to prioritize your own health while your wife engages in her own counseling. You're a wreck? Seek help for yourself. You don't have to put everyone else first, and doing so might be detrimental in the long run. There have to be low cost or free options you can at least get started with.
I don't think it makes sense to encourage paranoia like she isn't really getting therapy. She seems like a confused woman who doesn't know what she wants from life or relationships. I can see why she wants to get therapy. Raynaga should do so too! He's been terribly hurt and needs to process it in a way that doesn't blame himself.
You probably already looked into this, but my job, and many other corporate jobs like it, have started utilizing worker health advocate stuff to get free therapy sessions. I don't know your line of work, but if they've got a big footprint, they might have something similar, not tied to your insurance company, that you can use.
You probably already looked into this, but my job, and many other corporate jobs like it, have started utilizing worker health advocate stuff to get free therapy sessions. I don't know your line of work, but if they've got a big footprint, they might have something similar, not tied to your insurance company, that you can use.
Sometimes it goes through the insurance too as an added benefit where the employer is fully covering a certain number of sessions. My wife's job calls it the "employee assistance program"
and I wonder about my neighbors even though I don't have them
but they're listening to every word I say
Yes, I know, I need it too. But we have numerous family expenses, and it is what it is. We'll get there.
I am also seriously considering linking her this thread. As we get away from the catalyst, maybe reading it all may help? Or if not help, at least let us be on an even playing field re: judgement.
I don’t think you should show her this thread, because the aim of most people here has been to comfort you and that has led to a fair few “the witch is out to get you” posts which would not be constructive to show her.
+50
ceresWhen the last moon is cast over the last star of morningAnd the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, ModeratorMod Emeritus
Yes, I know, I need it too. But we have numerous family expenses, and it is what it is. We'll get there.
I am also seriously considering linking her this thread. As we get away from the catalyst, maybe reading it all may help? Or if not help, at least let us be on an even playing field re: judgement.
I never made this thread to be duplicitous.
Nope nope nope, on top of what celestialbadger said, then if she makes an account to argue about it she's kind of a forumer and it's kind of forum drama and it becomes toxic very fast and we've been there before and definitely are not going there again.
It also removes the forum as a list of safe(-ish) places you can get advice in the future because she'll know it's there.
It also opens up cans of worms you might think you're ready for, but chances are you haven't foreseen.
And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
+19
ceresWhen the last moon is cast over the last star of morningAnd the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, ModeratorMod Emeritus
I mean, obviously I can't control what you do. I certainly can't stop you from showing this to her. But if she posts in this thread I will lock it so fast it will reverberate through time to have been locked 24 hours before yesterday just to avoid it playing out here.
And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
+32
ObiFettUse the ForceAs You WishRegistered Userregular
Yes, I know, I need it too. But we have numerous family expenses, and it is what it is. We'll get there.
I am also seriously considering linking her this thread. As we get away from the catalyst, maybe reading it all may help? Or if not help, at least let us be on an even playing field re: judgement.
I never made this thread to be duplicitous.
Asking for advice from friends or family or a therapist and it being considered for your ears/eyes only is not duplicitous.
Dude you are not on an even playing field. Please please try and see that. You should not consider her lying and sneaking around and upending your lives, and you asking for help on what to do about all the stuff she just put you through, as anywhere like the same thing. They aren't balanced, the one caused the other!
One was a harm done to you, and the other is you seeking help dealing with that harm.
Don't put yourself in the mindset that you need to perform contrition of any sort toward her. This isn't a both-sides-have-blame situation. Don't let yourself slip into thinking that.
spool32 on
+33
Donovan PuppyfuckerA dagger in the dark isworth a thousand swords in the morningRegistered Userregular
You're still placing a LOT of trust and faith in her, and everything you've said so far about her and your relationship and what's been happening recently makes me want to fucking run away as fast as I can, and I'm not even IN this shit.
I really hope this all ends up working out for the best for you, but if I were you I wouldn't even be talking to her except through a lawyer.
That's what everyone in her life has always done, and I just won't do it.
Oh boy.
I had someone in my life that resulted in this phrase popping out of my mouth and my refusal to do what I deep down knew what I needed to do resulted in one of shittiest experiences I've ever had. Even after I finally pulled away from that person the lasting anxiety and depression took almost a year for me to mostly get through as I processed all the thoughts and feelings I had been repressing and I still have some lingering issues from all that. (I'm finally pursuing some therapy before anybody says anything)
I know how much you feel like you need to be the one good person in her life. The awesome anchor point she can always count on being there. The problem is that people with these sort of fucked up backgrounds of abandonment can end up becoming perpetual misery machines. Having someone they can attach to that they know isn't going anywhere let's them engage in crappy behavior with the knowledge that they'll have control of the situation because they know the other person won't leave.
So, I just wanted to pop in and say that you won't be a bad person if you decide to bail. You aren't betraying them and you aren't weak for doing it. There's only so much you can do for someone else and at some point you need to just take care of yourself and get them out of your life. I'm not saying you should do this right now but please don't feel like you need to suffer any crap just because they had a bad life.
TOGSolid on
+8
CambiataCommander ShepardThe likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered Userregular
I won't bail on her. That's what everyone in her life has always done, and I just won't do it.
Ah, I sorta skipped over this earlier.
I'm going to add the disclaimer that this may not be your situation, that you have knowledge that no one in this thread can have, etc., but nevertheless I'm going to put this forward.
Often when a person has a story of "everyone has abandoned me my whole life" or "people repeatedly fail me, I've never yet found a person I can trust" there's a deeper story going on - namely that the reason people left is not because everyone she's ever met is a selfish prick, but because each story at it's root is actually her driving people away. If you don't know any of these people, on a personal level, who have abandoned her, it's helpful at least to consider that the source of your information is biased. If you do happen to know any of them personally, is it possible for you to compare what you know of them to what she has said? Can you ask them about the "abandonment", in a neutral way that is not intended to start an argument with them? Those sources, too, will be biased in their own favor... but it can still be instructive, if those sources are at all available to you.
"excuse my French
But fuck you — no, fuck y'all, that's as blunt as it gets"
- Kendrick Lamar, "The Blacker the Berry"
To expand on Cambiata's post a tiny bit, on top of having a need to drive people away they'll also seek out negative people in order to help satisfy their own weird need to be stuck in a negative reinforcement loop. They derive a strange sort of pleasure from having their own self loathing and general negative views reinforced so they'll sub-consciously seek out situations that facilitate that.
TOGSolid on
+2
EncA Fool with CompassionPronouns: He, Him, HisRegistered Userregular
Also, you would think she wouldn't have bailed on you and your son, the people who have stuck with her faithfully all this time, were that something she valued.
+9
ceresWhen the last moon is cast over the last star of morningAnd the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, ModeratorMod Emeritus
That's not necessarily true and also right now this is a whole lot of armchair commentary on someone who is, lest we forget, also struggling with a mental illness. People do self-sabotage. It's a thing, especially in people with chronic mental health issues.
There's just a lot to consider, and if the OP is intent on staying through her first therapy session it might be best for him to at least see what comes of it.
If she uses it as an excuse to yell at you though, I'd bolt.
And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
+10
CambiataCommander ShepardThe likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered Userregular
That's not necessarily true and also right now this is a whole lot of armchair commentary on someone who is, lest we forget, also struggling with a mental illness. People do self-sabotage. It's a thing, especially in people with chronic mental health issues.
I don't know how much of this comment was directed at me, but in Raynaga's search for healing it's still important to remember that mental health problems should never be used as a reason that abuse is OK. Yes, self sabotage is a thing. I've done it to myself more often than I can count. That doesn't mean I wasn't shitty to some people who had a perfect right to tell me to get lost back before I was self-aware enough to recognize I was doing it.
"excuse my French
But fuck you — no, fuck y'all, that's as blunt as it gets"
- Kendrick Lamar, "The Blacker the Berry"
+2
ceresWhen the last moon is cast over the last star of morningAnd the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, ModeratorMod Emeritus
That's not necessarily true and also right now this is a whole lot of armchair commentary on someone who is, lest we forget, also struggling with a mental illness. People do self-sabotage. It's a thing, especially in people with chronic mental health issues.
I don't know how much of this comment was directed at me, but in Raynaga's search for healing it's still important to remember that mental health problems should never be used as a reason that abuse is OK. Yes, self sabotage is a thing. I've done it to myself more often than I can count. That doesn't mean I wasn't shitty to some people who had a perfect right to tell me to get lost back before I was self-aware enough to recognize I was doing it.
It was following Enc, the post right above mine. Thanks though.
And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
It's been however long since this all started, and she continued to go to therapy twice a week, adjusted meds, etc.
About a month ago it got to the point where it clearly wasn't getting better and she made some choices we both agreed were not OK, so she moved out. Our son stayed with me at the house.
I helped her move, as in loaded the truck with whatever she wanted and helped her unload at the apartment. I paid the deposits, rental fees, etc to get her into her apartment at her request. I have no idea what her plan is or what she's doing. We still talk as we have to coordinate for our son, but I legitimately have no clue on where she is at or what she is thinking.
I have our son 95% of the time, and she will pick him up for a day or two here or there, again, her choice. We are not legally divorced yet. I have tried to get her to make the schedule for keeping him, and even we she does it I have him most of the time. Which I am fine with, but still seems not right.
The upside is at least I know where we all stand, the downside is everything else. Right now I am focused on trying to ensure the house is stable and clean for our son.
I also, as I reverted accounts back to me alone and started checking things, found out our daycare was 1500 behind, my car was a 1000 behind, power was 500 behind, credit cards maxed out from interest, etc. Lesson learned, don't let a SO handle bills. The damage so far is almost 4500 in behind bills to get caught up with almost 10000 in credit cards. No clue where the money that should have gone to them went, and no point in pursuing I guess.
Got a separate bank account, closed the joint, with her agreement. Changed all the passwords.
So, anyway, not much in the way of advice looking for aside from trying to rebuild my entire life, but I had messages asking so I figured I would do a blanket update.
So she gets to be a parent when she feels like it, you're paying her bills, she doesn't live with you, she's continued to engage in behavior you've agreed is not okay, and she's messed up the finances that directly affect you and your son.
I'll admit it's been a while since I read this thread so there may be some extenuating circumstances, but why haven't you met with a divorce lawyer? Please save all email, texts, voicemail etc. - not only for your lawyer, but also for your son years down the road. One day he deserves the truth.
I'm not paying her bills, I paid to move her. Big difference.
And I have, and will again. I'm trying to get everything that was behind caught up first and get some amount of money built back up again (between the surprise behind bills and moving her, that took what we had as it was something 6 or 7 thousand all said and done) before I do.
Mainly because no way to know how it will go, as I understand it, with how slanted towards the mother these things can be.
So she gets to be a parent when she feels like it, you're paying her bills, she doesn't live with you, she's continued to engage in behavior you've agreed is not okay, and she's messed up the finances that directly affect you and your son.
I'll admit it's been a while since I read this thread so there may be some extenuating circumstances, but why haven't you met with a divorce lawyer? Please save all email, texts, voicemail etc. - not only for your lawyer, but also for your son years down the road. One day he deserves the truth.
Seconded. I mean, take a step back and look at your post.
"I also, as I reverted accounts back to me alone and started checking things, found out our daycare was 1500 behind, my car was a 1000 behind, power was 500 behind, credit cards maxed out from interest, etc. Lesson learned, don't let a SO handle bills. The damage so far is almost 4500 in behind bills to get caught up with almost 10000 in credit cards."
"I paid the deposits, rental fees, etc to get her into her apartment at her request. I have no idea what her plan is or what she's doing."
Sounds like her plan at the moment is to just keep on sponging off of you while she runs off to do who knows what with whoever. She's completely taking advantage of you, nearly lost you your car, got your kid kicked out of daycare, lights turned off, credit shot to hell... she doesn't want any part of this marriage. She doesn't want her son around, but she'll happily take your money and get you to pay for everything.
Talk to a lawyer and have them pull bank statements if you're too squeamish to. Figure out where that money went and why, and you'll have your answer. But as long as you keep making excuses for her, she's going to keep sucking you dry. She gets money, a free apartment, not having to worry about her son, and out from under your watchful eye.
Just what the hell are you getting out of all of this? More grief, more stress, more worrying, more work.
he never says the rent, just deposits and fees to apply etc. honestly its basically an investment in sanity and journey to normal and worth it in this case
he never says the rent, just deposits and fees to apply etc. honestly its basically an investment in sanity and journey to normal and worth it in this case
Correct. It was the initial fees to move in. And if I hadn't have done that, she never would have left
+2
CambiataCommander ShepardThe likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered Userregular
Yeah I get why you would do that, get her out cleanly and without an argument. As the expression goes, "sometimes the cheapest way to pay for something is with money."
"excuse my French
But fuck you — no, fuck y'all, that's as blunt as it gets"
- Kendrick Lamar, "The Blacker the Berry"
Kid of divorce just wants to say, the older your son gets, the more an aloof parent can do damage. I cannot really think of ever wanting to be at my dads place, he didn't seem super interested in us being around. It was at best terribly boring for us to be with him, and at worst exhausting and frustrating to not understand why he was the way he was.
I cannot imagine if the scales were tipped somehow in me having to be over there all the time, or even a little bit more. I no longer speak to him. He's not an evil guy or even really a terrible guy, but upsides to his personality panned out to him being not being very nurturing. The older I got, the more clear it was. Shouldn't have had kids, cant believe he went on to have more.
I know, that is all anecdotal. I want to say that to emphasize that its extremely important that you don't let guilt, or sympathy, or whatever get in the way of making a strong case for keeping custody. You might not want to try and influence her or convince her to spend more time with him either. If its not what she actually wants, or she gets this idea that she should just fight for him so people dont judge her poorly (my dads general take), her time with your kid might totally suck for him. If shes got no initiative to do it, and there's no legal reasons it would benefit for her to still have time with him, maybe grandma can be that maternal influence for the time being.
I wish you the best of luck with your finances and lawyer. Its going to continue to be hard and your son, one day, will have a lot of questions. Highly suggest you pursue therapy for yourself, because you are going to have to make choices that people, even parts of yourself, might give you shit for.
Posts
This, and I don't see where seeing a couples counseling has anything to do with her individual counseling. It won't cause any problems in the process. The focus is not on the individuals, but in how you interact with each other. Her therapy might help with that or it might not. The priorities of the therapist are just very different leading to a very different process. Food for thought is all.
Oh, I'm there. Believe me. This entire ordeal has been something I will only go through once. I'm barely keeping it together. Repeat trips, I wouldn't make it.
On going for myself, this stuff is expensive! Hers is covered by my insurance as she has some diagnosed conditions, but mine would be out of pocket. Which we could do, but it would put pressure on some things that we don't need. Mine can come later.
Well... keep in mind that if this were a manipulation, she'd give you plenty of time to get comfortable and stable before she tries it again. I'm not saying that's what she's doing, but just that if it comes again, it'll come after you've reinvested yourself heavily, making the cost of leaving greater (and thus making you even more reluctant to leave than you are now)
But fuck you — no, fuck y'all, that's as blunt as it gets"
- Kendrick Lamar, "The Blacker the Berry"
With all the things you've been going through, you don't need your stuff to happen later, you need it to happen now. But I'll also make an argument from a different tack and say that your mental health is going to be an important factor in helping to provide a stable environment for your son. Plus a good therapist would probably (maybe?) be able to advise on what your son is going through and what you should look out for and how you can help him.
1. She's being honest with you, and is trying to figure herself out. Which is good!
2. She's using your desire for stability and reconciliation as cover with which to see the other guy, and perhaps coordinate her own exit strategy with him.
Given everything that's happened, I don't think she's earned the benefit of the doubt. Some talk and her not stepping out on you for the 3rd time in a month isn't exactly evidence of the situation getting better.
Entirely inappropriate unless the suggestion is that the OP get that confirmation through her or otherwise. Secretly following her or checking her phone? Not okay to tell somebody to do IMO.
edit: That said, I'd probably be very wary if she said no. Considering counseling is part of the terms of staying together for now and trust is the issue, I would think it's fair to ask that.
Admittedly, I worded my post terribly (like whoa), but I'm not suggesting that he simply violate her right to privacy.
There are plenty of ways to get confirmation without doing something stupid/self-destructive/morally wrong. Some are pretty straight forward (bills/statements mailed to the house, the service getting paid through joint finances, etc.). Others require her to put forth some effort to show some minimal honesty (the house phone (if they have one) as the callback number for missed appointments, her producing paperwork or whatever if asked (which, I think, would be fair requests)).
The point is to make sure something like this exists. That it's not "Oh, yeah, I'm totally getting help" without any kind of documentation, or other form of proof, whatsoever.
I get that having her in therapy feels like the right thing (because it is!) but it's not going to help with your issues, or the shared needs of the relationship. It may be that wrangling her thoughts and sorting out her wants and needs doesn't really heal the relationship. It certainly wont help your end of the relationship, even if it clarifies what she wants. Individually focusing on your mental health might be better than just her going to therapy and the two of you attending couples counseling. You individually seeing professionals and also doing couples is ideal.
It's perfectly reasonable to ask her how she likes her therapist and whether she thinks it's helpful. The only reason I can see for asking whether she went is because often cancellation fees are higher than the actual cost of a session if it's not done far enough in advance. (because insurance probably wont cover short-notice cancellation)
At this point you're two people who used to have a marriage and relationship that wasn't the healthiest. Without communication, effort and desire to fix things she's just a crappy roommate that is exploiting your feelings to avoid the consequences and risks of self-sufficiency. It's kind of understandable, the world is scary. That doesn't mean it's okay to be emotionally abusive. Yes, withholding affection, threatening self harm and being manipulative and dishonest are things I'd consider abuse at least in the context this marriage. It doesn't mean she's being malicious or intentionally hurting you. She's probably distancing herself so it's less painful if the relationship does end.
And on the stringing along posts, I'm fully aware that's a possibility. I just don't really see what else I am supposed to do. I won't bail on her. That's what everyone in her life has always done, and I just won't do it.
I will definitely need to address things with myself, as frankly when I'm not at work as a leader or with my wife and son as a source of stability I'm a wreck. I'll get to it eventually.
We have our son's birthday party Sunday. He turned 6 on the 16th. We both took off work and went to the school and had lunch with him on the day of - he had a birthday crown and after the FBI checkpoint (this school should seriously run embassy security in Yemen or something, its crazy) we got to sit with him and his class to eat and pass put cupcakes. His school is seriously amazing. He had a Fun Run and I went as I closed and she couldn't get off. I was expecting some safety cones and teacher refs. They hired a company that does them professionally, had generators running a DJ booth and field speakers, had an announcer that introduced each class like a pro wrestler, and raised 46,000 dollars in a 1 hour event. I don't even know how that works for an Elementary school.
We'll see how the birthday party goes, its family, work friends, and school friends for him. All the family and work friends know the broadstrokes of the past 60 days.
It will be interesting?
I'm sorry, what?
To get into the school, you have to hit a buzzer outside the building. They intercom you and allow you into a foyer. The foyer goes into the main office and has another pair of doors that also have to be buzzed through.
In the office they scan your driver's license and pull up your profile. You say why you are there, and they print color coded, dated badges with with your DL photo, child's name, and purpose of visit. They then release you to the foyer and then buzz you past the second doors into the school proper.
The whole time this is going on, there is an armed Sheriff's deputy in the parking lot and in the foyer. We are in a super low crime rate area, btw, and the kids don't go through all this, it's just during school hours during the day.
After Sandy Hook, etc it's very much appreciated.
You keep saying this, but it's okay right now to prioritize your own health while your wife engages in her own counseling. You're a wreck? Seek help for yourself. You don't have to put everyone else first, and doing so might be detrimental in the long run. There have to be low cost or free options you can at least get started with.
Steam ID: Obos Vent: Obos
Sometimes it goes through the insurance too as an added benefit where the employer is fully covering a certain number of sessions. My wife's job calls it the "employee assistance program"
but they're listening to every word I say
I am also seriously considering linking her this thread. As we get away from the catalyst, maybe reading it all may help? Or if not help, at least let us be on an even playing field re: judgement.
I never made this thread to be duplicitous.
Nope nope nope, on top of what celestialbadger said, then if she makes an account to argue about it she's kind of a forumer and it's kind of forum drama and it becomes toxic very fast and we've been there before and definitely are not going there again.
It also removes the forum as a list of safe(-ish) places you can get advice in the future because she'll know it's there.
It also opens up cans of worms you might think you're ready for, but chances are you haven't foreseen.
Asking for advice from friends or family or a therapist and it being considered for your ears/eyes only is not duplicitous.
One was a harm done to you, and the other is you seeking help dealing with that harm.
Don't put yourself in the mindset that you need to perform contrition of any sort toward her. This isn't a both-sides-have-blame situation. Don't let yourself slip into thinking that.
I really hope this all ends up working out for the best for you, but if I were you I wouldn't even be talking to her except through a lawyer.
Oh boy.
I had someone in my life that resulted in this phrase popping out of my mouth and my refusal to do what I deep down knew what I needed to do resulted in one of shittiest experiences I've ever had. Even after I finally pulled away from that person the lasting anxiety and depression took almost a year for me to mostly get through as I processed all the thoughts and feelings I had been repressing and I still have some lingering issues from all that. (I'm finally pursuing some therapy before anybody says anything)
I know how much you feel like you need to be the one good person in her life. The awesome anchor point she can always count on being there. The problem is that people with these sort of fucked up backgrounds of abandonment can end up becoming perpetual misery machines. Having someone they can attach to that they know isn't going anywhere let's them engage in crappy behavior with the knowledge that they'll have control of the situation because they know the other person won't leave.
So, I just wanted to pop in and say that you won't be a bad person if you decide to bail. You aren't betraying them and you aren't weak for doing it. There's only so much you can do for someone else and at some point you need to just take care of yourself and get them out of your life. I'm not saying you should do this right now but please don't feel like you need to suffer any crap just because they had a bad life.
Ah, I sorta skipped over this earlier.
I'm going to add the disclaimer that this may not be your situation, that you have knowledge that no one in this thread can have, etc., but nevertheless I'm going to put this forward.
Often when a person has a story of "everyone has abandoned me my whole life" or "people repeatedly fail me, I've never yet found a person I can trust" there's a deeper story going on - namely that the reason people left is not because everyone she's ever met is a selfish prick, but because each story at it's root is actually her driving people away. If you don't know any of these people, on a personal level, who have abandoned her, it's helpful at least to consider that the source of your information is biased. If you do happen to know any of them personally, is it possible for you to compare what you know of them to what she has said? Can you ask them about the "abandonment", in a neutral way that is not intended to start an argument with them? Those sources, too, will be biased in their own favor... but it can still be instructive, if those sources are at all available to you.
But fuck you — no, fuck y'all, that's as blunt as it gets"
- Kendrick Lamar, "The Blacker the Berry"
There's just a lot to consider, and if the OP is intent on staying through her first therapy session it might be best for him to at least see what comes of it.
If she uses it as an excuse to yell at you though, I'd bolt.
I don't know how much of this comment was directed at me, but in Raynaga's search for healing it's still important to remember that mental health problems should never be used as a reason that abuse is OK. Yes, self sabotage is a thing. I've done it to myself more often than I can count. That doesn't mean I wasn't shitty to some people who had a perfect right to tell me to get lost back before I was self-aware enough to recognize I was doing it.
But fuck you — no, fuck y'all, that's as blunt as it gets"
- Kendrick Lamar, "The Blacker the Berry"
It was following Enc, the post right above mine. Thanks though.
It's been however long since this all started, and she continued to go to therapy twice a week, adjusted meds, etc.
About a month ago it got to the point where it clearly wasn't getting better and she made some choices we both agreed were not OK, so she moved out. Our son stayed with me at the house.
I helped her move, as in loaded the truck with whatever she wanted and helped her unload at the apartment. I paid the deposits, rental fees, etc to get her into her apartment at her request. I have no idea what her plan is or what she's doing. We still talk as we have to coordinate for our son, but I legitimately have no clue on where she is at or what she is thinking.
I have our son 95% of the time, and she will pick him up for a day or two here or there, again, her choice. We are not legally divorced yet. I have tried to get her to make the schedule for keeping him, and even we she does it I have him most of the time. Which I am fine with, but still seems not right.
The upside is at least I know where we all stand, the downside is everything else. Right now I am focused on trying to ensure the house is stable and clean for our son.
I also, as I reverted accounts back to me alone and started checking things, found out our daycare was 1500 behind, my car was a 1000 behind, power was 500 behind, credit cards maxed out from interest, etc. Lesson learned, don't let a SO handle bills. The damage so far is almost 4500 in behind bills to get caught up with almost 10000 in credit cards. No clue where the money that should have gone to them went, and no point in pursuing I guess.
Got a separate bank account, closed the joint, with her agreement. Changed all the passwords.
So, anyway, not much in the way of advice looking for aside from trying to rebuild my entire life, but I had messages asking so I figured I would do a blanket update.
Thank you for all the advice.
I'll admit it's been a while since I read this thread so there may be some extenuating circumstances, but why haven't you met with a divorce lawyer? Please save all email, texts, voicemail etc. - not only for your lawyer, but also for your son years down the road. One day he deserves the truth.
And I have, and will again. I'm trying to get everything that was behind caught up first and get some amount of money built back up again (between the surprise behind bills and moving her, that took what we had as it was something 6 or 7 thousand all said and done) before I do.
Mainly because no way to know how it will go, as I understand it, with how slanted towards the mother these things can be.
Seconded. I mean, take a step back and look at your post.
"I also, as I reverted accounts back to me alone and started checking things, found out our daycare was 1500 behind, my car was a 1000 behind, power was 500 behind, credit cards maxed out from interest, etc. Lesson learned, don't let a SO handle bills. The damage so far is almost 4500 in behind bills to get caught up with almost 10000 in credit cards."
"I paid the deposits, rental fees, etc to get her into her apartment at her request. I have no idea what her plan is or what she's doing."
Sounds like her plan at the moment is to just keep on sponging off of you while she runs off to do who knows what with whoever. She's completely taking advantage of you, nearly lost you your car, got your kid kicked out of daycare, lights turned off, credit shot to hell... she doesn't want any part of this marriage. She doesn't want her son around, but she'll happily take your money and get you to pay for everything.
Talk to a lawyer and have them pull bank statements if you're too squeamish to. Figure out where that money went and why, and you'll have your answer. But as long as you keep making excuses for her, she's going to keep sucking you dry. She gets money, a free apartment, not having to worry about her son, and out from under your watchful eye.
Just what the hell are you getting out of all of this? More grief, more stress, more worrying, more work.
I can has cheezburger, yes?
Correct. It was the initial fees to move in. And if I hadn't have done that, she never would have left
But fuck you — no, fuck y'all, that's as blunt as it gets"
- Kendrick Lamar, "The Blacker the Berry"
I cannot imagine if the scales were tipped somehow in me having to be over there all the time, or even a little bit more. I no longer speak to him. He's not an evil guy or even really a terrible guy, but upsides to his personality panned out to him being not being very nurturing. The older I got, the more clear it was. Shouldn't have had kids, cant believe he went on to have more.
I know, that is all anecdotal. I want to say that to emphasize that its extremely important that you don't let guilt, or sympathy, or whatever get in the way of making a strong case for keeping custody. You might not want to try and influence her or convince her to spend more time with him either. If its not what she actually wants, or she gets this idea that she should just fight for him so people dont judge her poorly (my dads general take), her time with your kid might totally suck for him. If shes got no initiative to do it, and there's no legal reasons it would benefit for her to still have time with him, maybe grandma can be that maternal influence for the time being.
I wish you the best of luck with your finances and lawyer. Its going to continue to be hard and your son, one day, will have a lot of questions. Highly suggest you pursue therapy for yourself, because you are going to have to make choices that people, even parts of yourself, might give you shit for.