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The really important thing is that you reframe it in your mind from "something I was supposed to do with my wife" to "something I get to do with my son."
That just broke my brain. Thank you. Seriously.
They will help you find more of these moments and be able to act rationally and deal with your emotions at the same time. You will feel much better with someone to talk to, I promise.
If you PM me the name of your insurance and zip code, I will personally find you a list with numbers to call/emails to email to set up an appointment and send it back to you later today. @Raynaga
Your workplace may also have an Employee and Family Assistance Program (or something similar) that can provide connections to (and may coverage for) therapists, specialists, lawyers, counselors, etc. that you should look into.
Don’t martyr yourself. It’s pretty clear you need someone impartial to talk to, like a therapist. Well, there’s us, but the internet peanut gallery isn’t exactly a trained listener and we could accidentally say something that hurts you.
+6
ceresWhen the last moon is cast over the last star of morningAnd the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, ModeratorMod Emeritus
We are also all laughably biased, and that alone makes us bad as an only means of support.
And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
People in this thread are being pretty nice and attempting to be helpful. I suspect a sampling of your close friends and family will yield stronger criticism.
You can't fix this thing without participation and desire to do so from your wife.
Your wife sounds like she's not interested in fixing a goddamn thing.
Get. Help. Now.
You aren't capable of doing this without a professional to talk to, there's a ton of stuff to unpack and pretending things are fine is unhealthy.
Edit:
Your wife took your son to some guys house she's having an affair with that is only available and pursuing her because his girlfriend went to prison.
Whether they're fucking or not she's violated all trust in the relationship and you're still acting like all you gotta do is win her back.
One angle you might want to consider. You're obviously very concerned about your boy's well-being (rightly so). What do you think being introduced to this other guy is going to do for his well-being?
Well, we had my parents keep our son this weekend from Friday night until Sunday morning. Used the time to talk and figure out what the plan was.
I told her that I didn't feel like she was making decisions that made sense, and I was open to keeping our with her visiting or taking him whenever she wanted if that was really what she wanted. I want to help her through what she is going through, but I also have to think about what's best for our son and at a certain point that takes priority. She didn't have much on her side, maybe it would be best, she wasn't sure. I told her I was just as open to working together and moving forward, but that it was her decision. That was Friday night.
Saturday we spent the day together went and got lunch, watched movies, that kind of thing.
Sunday morning she told me she wanted to try and move forward as a family, but couldn't make any promises. I said I understood and would be as close or as distant as she needed to help her. We spent Sunday together, and my son was brought back home Sunday afternoon.
I'm planning to get more clarity on what trying looks like for her today. But, maybe progress? Not sure yet.
To the question before, I have thought about the impact on our son which is what finally pushed me to "We can try or you can go, your call" essentially.
0
ceresWhen the last moon is cast over the last star of morningAnd the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, ModeratorMod Emeritus
I'm assuming here that you aren't interested in a poly relationship structure, and that being the case I'm taking some slow, calming breaths right now to keep myself from making gagging noises. I think if you aren't comfortable with her dating him while you try to move forward as a family, you need to say "if you really want to make this work I need you to stop seeing him. If not, fine, but I don't feel comfortable doing it like this." Or something like that. I'm not going to sit here and say "you should leave anyway," I just don't know you guys that well. But if you don't want this guy to be a part of you and your son's family in that capacity, you should make that clear sooner rather than later.
Until she's sure one way or another, it might be a good idea to wait before making Other Guy more a part of your son's life.
And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
I'm assuming here that you aren't interested in a poly relationship structure, and that being the case I'm taking some slow, calming breaths right now to keep myself from making gagging noises. I think if you aren't comfortable with her dating him while you try to move forward as a family, you need to say "if you really want to make this work I need you to stop seeing him. If not, fine, but I don't feel comfortable doing it like this." Or something like that. I'm not going to sit here and say "you should leave anyway," I just don't know you guys that well. But if you don't want this guy to be a part of you and your son's family in that capacity, you should make that clear sooner rather than later.
Until she's sure one way or another, it might be a good idea to wait before making Other Guy more a part of your son's life.
That's the part about me getting more clarity from her today. In my initial reaction I think I let my being happy to hear something beyond gloom and doom that I didn't review specifically what that looks like. Because no, other guy cannot be in the picture for us to move forward.
I told her that I didn't feel like she was making decisions that made sense...
Chiming in on the therapy recommendation. The quoted statement is framing that needs to be aided by a professional third party. It's not about what "makes sense", it is about what you want, which is reconciliation and a continuation of the life you are so afraid of losing, and what she wants, which may be different.
You keep describing how hard it is for you to suppress your emotions. Frankly, you shouldn't play the role of an objective party in your conversations with her. You are, however indirectly, representing your own emotions and that's it.
You should get help in facilitating this, or it may become cyclical.
I really wish you the best, regardless of outcome. You should realize that you have accomplished a lot, and have worth and merit on your own.
Well, got more clarity. Trying means she stays at home, and in front of our son we're mom and dad. When he isn't around, we're person a and person b. She says she realizes she was being selfish and was going to focus on giving our son what he needs.
I guess its better? I'm still trying to sort it out. I'm also trying to untangle if it's for real, or if it's that she can't make leaving work on her income so is staying so her car payment, rent, etc is covered until she can figure something out and we'll be in the same place 6 months from now. And if its even right for me to consider that.
I agree on the counseling. Apparently still a no go.
Very unsteady ground.
Raynaga on
0
Powerpuppiesdrinking coffee in themountain cabinRegistered Userregular
Well, got more clarity. Trying means she stays at home, and in front of our son we're mom and dad. When he isn't around, we're person a and person b. She says she realizes she was being selfish and was going to focus on giving our son what he needs.
I guess its better? I'm still trying to sort it out. I'm also trying to untangle if it's for real, or if it's that she can't make leaving work on her income so is staying.so her car payment, rent, etc is covered until she can.figure something out and we'll be in the same place 6 months from now. And if its even right for me to consider that.
Of course it's right for you to consider that. As soon as she declared her desire to divorce, she put you on notice that she no longer thinks in terms of 'us' but now in terms of 'me.' You need to evaluate her decisions in that manner until you have proof otherwise, and you know in your heart that you're going to have trouble being objective about that because you want to find that proof. I know you do and I don't blame you for it. This is one of a long list of reasons people are pushing for counseling.
I agree on the counseling. Apparently still a no go.
Very unsteady groud.
If she's not open to counseling to reconcile the marriage, then she's not really trying. Frankly, she should want to go to figure out what underlying issue caused her to bail, if she wants to try to be happy in this marriage. Otherwise she's openly admitting that it would just be going thru the motions for your kid, which isn't healthy either. Nothing has happened that could have sufficiently 'fixed' whatever went wrong in the first place. If I were in your shoes, the counseling should be a put-your-foot-down part of the deal.
And you shouldn't wait at all to go on your own. Among other things, they might help you on an approach to getting her to agree to couples counseling (though you should walk in there with the mindset of self-healing first and foremost)
I would argue that "trying" is couples counseling, bare minimum. Even if she, out of the blue, completely changes her mind and decides she still loves you and all that, there's been a massive breach of trust in your relationship. A therapist will a) help you sort through the ocean of feelings you both are feeling, b) provide an unbiased opinion on matters, c) provide her with the means to better vocalize the issues she has with your relationship, and d) possibly help identify and recognize any subconscious reasons for these actions so that it doesn't happen again.
It seems very unlikely to me that you will both be able to compartmentalize your relationship in such a way that your son doesn't intuitively figure out something is wrong. However, I'm not a therapist and I've never been in your situation before. You also didn't elaborate on whether "person a and person b" means she's still with this other guy, which you said yourself was a dealbreaker. If she agrees to stop seeing this guy, would you believe her?
Based on everything you've written in this thread, I think your gut feeling about her sticking around solely for the money is a genuine concern. Even if it isn't, procrastinating won't resolve the problem. If she's not willing to take positive steps to try and resolve anything in this marriage, it's not going to get better on its own.
I’m not a therapist, but trying to be “Mom and Dad” in front of your son and “Person A and Person B” when he’s out of sight is a shitty idea, and sounds like a good way to maximize everyone’s unhappiness.
How long do you think such a charade could last? The holidays are fast approaching. Your family knows what's going on. Are they going to be expected to fake it with her, too?
ceresWhen the last moon is cast over the last star of morningAnd the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, ModeratorMod Emeritus
...it's that she can't make leaving work on her income so is staying.so her car payment, rent, etc is covered until she can.figure something out and we'll be in the same place 6 months from now.
"I really don't want to be with you, but I also don't want to have to figure out the logistics of separation or give up anything at all so I can have what I actually want, so let's compromise. I get all the things and you and our son get to live a fake life with me in the house and never ever move on. Sound good?" That's not trying, it's an abuse.
Because playing house with a kid but not actually together in a meaningful way is a shit deal for that kid. I know families who live that way, but they're person a and person b at home, too, and there's no make-believe. It didn't work between them but they've committed to raising a child together anyway, and they're close enough friends and companions to do that and still honestly carry on with their own lives. It is not easy, and a lack of willingness to talk to a couples therapist at all bodes very poorly. Communication and compromise are so important, and it is in itself a pretty big commitment.
In my opinion (and again I don't know you guys but this is what it sounds like to me), doing what's laid out here for your son's sake is going to be terrible for everyone because it's a big lie; it's a lie to yourself and to your son, and it's a lie that it's for his sake you'd be doing it. If she's told you she doesn't want a relationship and she won't talk about it, she has either broken up with you or is counting the minutes until you break up with her so she doesn't have to feel responsible for it.
Honesty is easier. Be honest with yourself and your son; both deserve the truth.
ceres on
And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
Playing pretend always breaks down at some point, and kids always know. Your son may not ever say he knows, and he may not even consciously register that you two are hiding the truth of your relationship from him, but the falseness of your family situation will affect how he grows up to view other relationships.
Anecdotally, I know a family where the parents should divorce, but they're pretending it works for the kids, and the kids are struggling. Their oldest daughter has run away several times and is currently in juvenile detention. Kids need their home to be a safe space where things are real and the relationships matter. That can still happen if the kids' parents lead separate lives, but I can't see it happening if the parents are living one false life.
I'm sorry to say, but it looks like her intention is likely to be staying with you as a housemate until she or this other guy are ready for her to move into his place/somewhere else. There's no sense that she wants a relationship with you and she's already introduced your son to the other guy, thus starting the process of incorporating him into his life. She may be unsure about what will happen in the future and hedging her bets, but I'm afraid that it appears that your sole value to her is stability. I wonder whether it would be sensible for you to speak to your lawyer again and see if filing first would be in the interests of your son. Her actions so far do not seem to show much consideration for him.
The refusal of couples counselling is pretty indicative of where this is going, and the co-parenting under the same roof will be actively harmful to your son in the long term; kids are perceptive and he won't be fooled. And it shows no care for your happiness either. I don't know you guys or your situation more than what's in this thread, but it feels like it's over bar the shouting now.
Well, got more clarity. Trying means she stays at home, and in front of our son we're mom and dad. When he isn't around, we're person a and person b. She says she realizes she was being selfish and was going to focus on giving our son what he needs.
I guess its better? I'm still trying to sort it out. I'm also trying to untangle if it's for real, or if it's that she can't make leaving work on her income so is staying.so her car payment, rent, etc is covered until she can.figure something out and we'll be in the same place 6 months from now. And if its even right for me to consider that.
I agree on the counseling. Apparently still a no go.
Very unsteady groud.
You too are allowed to make conditions for thing to continue as is. Counseling would be a very good one to put at the top of your list.
Don't lie to your kid. Your kid can handle Mom and Dad not being married anymore. Way more likely to harm your kid if Mom and Dad constantly lie to them and distort what they're views on what relationships are supposed to look like.
As it is, this doesn't sound like she's still "there" at all. I'd really strongly consider being the one to pull the trigger and file for divorce. Remember that divorce doesn't mean the things can't be rebuilt but it is a very clear sign post that what was, is no longer. If you both want it then you need to understand you're rebuilding and not just coasting. If you both don't want to rebuild then the divorce is just acknowledging where you actually are.
Well, got more clarity. Trying means she stays at home, and in front of our son we're mom and dad. When he isn't around, we're person a and person b. She says she realizes she was being selfish and was going to focus on giving our son what he needs.
I guess its better? I'm still trying to sort it out. I'm also trying to untangle if it's for real, or if it's that she can't make leaving work on her income so is staying.so her car payment, rent, etc is covered until she can.figure something out and we'll be in the same place 6 months from now. And if its even right for me to consider that.
I agree on the counseling. Apparently still a no go.
She's made her decision, it appears, so the financial realities of that are something she needs to take care of, NOT YOU.
You are no longer responsible for helping her make decisions or supporting her well being. She made that choice, not you.
Devote time and energy to your kid and get her out of the house if she's not wanting to be part of the household anymore. You'll both be happier in the end.
This is not something to fix. She made her own choices and now is time to set ground rules and expectations that prioritize your kid and yourself. She can advocate for her own needs and you are not required to accommodate them.
+12
OnTheLastCastlelet's keep it haimish for the peripateticRegistered Userregular
Signs she does not want a relationship anymore:
No counseling
Introducing her son to the other person
Pretending things are fine
Staying right now for financial reasons
Lying to "not upset you"
Signs she wants it to work out:
??????????????????
I guess what I am trying to figure out if it would be better for our son or not, and if I'm just reacting selfishly by thinking it's not OK. He gets both parents, he avoids shuttling between places to live, he stays in his school. He doesn't have to worry about why we're not both at whatever event.
I know what I want, but if that isn't an option, then isn't this better than nothing? Maybe I should just get over it, accept what it is, and move forward like this for our son.
Realizing this situation isn't OK is for your son. If it wasn't for him, you could approach your marriage however you wanted, and live whatever weird half-life you wanted. It would be enormously unhealthy and unfair to you, but at least you'd be choosing to do that only to yourself. It's your son who needs to be treated honestly and with respect. Orchestrating the illusion of an unbroken household isn't that, and he will pick up on it, and it will affect him.
Having to shuttle between two different houses may seem more inconvenient and unusual on its face, but at least it gives him a better shot at having loving and emotionally healthy parents who are ready to actually support him and care for him when he gets to those places.
I guess what I am trying to figure out if it would be better for our son or not, and if I'm just reacting selfishly by thinking it's not OK. He gets both parents, he avoids shuttling between places to live, he stays in his school. He doesn't have to worry about why we're not both at whatever event.
I know what I want, but if that isn't an option, then isn't this better than nothing? Maybe I should just get over it, accept what it is, and move forward like this for our son.
There are a lot of studies that show that staying together in that sort of situation is way worse for healthy development then separation
Especially since even if you think you are both acting "cool", you probably aren't and kids are way more sensitive to that sort of thing then most give credit for.
I feel like everyone in this thread will agree that even if she were 100% genuine about wanting to make-believe that everything is great between you and her for the sake of your son, it would not work for very long, and would not be at all what is best for him.
+12
Powerpuppiesdrinking coffee in themountain cabinRegistered Userregular
I guess what I am trying to figure out if it would be better for our son or not, and if I'm just reacting selfishly by thinking it's not OK. He gets both parents, he avoids shuttling between places to live, he stays in his school. He doesn't have to worry about why we're not both at whatever event.
I know what I want, but if that isn't an option, then isn't this better than nothing? Maybe I should just get over it, accept what it is, and move forward like this for our son.
You're not being selfish, it would be worse for your son, and it would not be better then nothing. During the dissolution of your marriage any time your son spends with both of you risks being very unpleasant for him. Neither of you can control the others behavior and it will be super hard even to control your own around each other, for awhile.
I guess what I am trying to figure out if it would be better for our son or not, and if I'm just reacting selfishly by thinking it's not OK. He gets both parents, he avoids shuttling between places to live, he stays in his school. He doesn't have to worry about why we're not both at whatever event.
I know what I want, but if that isn't an option, then isn't this better than nothing? Maybe I should just get over it, accept what it is, and move forward like this for our son.
This is your attachment to your ex speaking. From what I've read of this thread, you are not currently capable of being a good advocate for yourself. Please pursue therapy.
There is absolutely zero chance of him not realizing something is off, and worse, not understanding exactly what and it making more damage than a divorce actually would.
The other thing to keep in mind is you have no idea what she may be saying to your son when you're not around for this situation... especially when she takes him off to be with the other guy and her.
I don't know, some things of this just sound really weird (starting to file for divorce to see "what it was like", taking the kid to see/meet the other man). None of this sounds like a great situation for yourself, your child or for your wife. Please seek counseling with someone about this beyond just an internet forum, even if your wife won't go with you.
I'm just afraid one day that 'seeing what it was like' filing is going to be "surprise, here's your papers" while all along you get the 'well, things are fine' talk.
I guess what I am trying to figure out if it would be better for our son or not, and if I'm just reacting selfishly by thinking it's not OK. He gets both parents, he avoids shuttling between places to live, he stays in his school. He doesn't have to worry about why we're not both at whatever event.
I know what I want, but if that isn't an option, then isn't this better than nothing? Maybe I should just get over it, accept what it is, and move forward like this for our son.
No. It is strictly worse than nothing. Children will sniff out the bullshit, and it will not be good. All research has shown the child is better of when the parents split up rather than staying together only for the kids. I have watched many situations play out similar to this during my professional career as well. Anecdotally, this is a terrible idea for your kid and will only cause more problems. Rip the band-aid off. You are only prolonging the pain.
There are many, many options to arrange for child care that can make some of what you want work, but you need to be honest about what is happening. What the two of you seem to be dancing around is the concept of nesting as a form of child custody. That is where the parents swap who lives in the house with the children rather than having the children move from home to home. There are a lot of pros and cons, but it still requires you just own up to what the situation really is. There is simply no world in which it is best to hide the reality of your relationship from your son.
Talking to a therapist is a great place to work out comfort levels on this. Legal advice would also be good before entering into any formal custody arrangement. Professionals are trained for just this situation and can help bring clarity, and healthy closure to the whole situation.
Posts
Here is why you need to call a therapist today:
They will help you find more of these moments and be able to act rationally and deal with your emotions at the same time. You will feel much better with someone to talk to, I promise.
If you PM me the name of your insurance and zip code, I will personally find you a list with numbers to call/emails to email to set up an appointment and send it back to you later today. @Raynaga
Secure your own mask first or you will end up unable to help others get their mask on.
He was OK until I shared the bits about her saying"We never should have had a son" and taking him over to the guy's house.
Apparently I am the only one in the world who thinks this is worth fixing.
Yes, that's very normal. In general, do not expect your friends or family to support or encourage your efforts to stand or fix your marriage. At all.
What would you tell one of your friends/family? Would you like to see them go through such pain, or help them move on with life?
I was in a semi-similar situation once and found very little to no support from friends or family to stand for my marriage.
You can't fix this thing without participation and desire to do so from your wife.
Your wife sounds like she's not interested in fixing a goddamn thing.
Get. Help. Now.
You aren't capable of doing this without a professional to talk to, there's a ton of stuff to unpack and pretending things are fine is unhealthy.
Edit:
Your wife took your son to some guys house she's having an affair with that is only available and pursuing her because his girlfriend went to prison.
Whether they're fucking or not she's violated all trust in the relationship and you're still acting like all you gotta do is win her back.
Man she doesn't give a damn anymore. She's trying to make a new normal and your opinions are not included, nevermind your presence.
Next it will be spending your money to help out the new guy. This should be the emergency alarm sound playing right now.
I told her that I didn't feel like she was making decisions that made sense, and I was open to keeping our with her visiting or taking him whenever she wanted if that was really what she wanted. I want to help her through what she is going through, but I also have to think about what's best for our son and at a certain point that takes priority. She didn't have much on her side, maybe it would be best, she wasn't sure. I told her I was just as open to working together and moving forward, but that it was her decision. That was Friday night.
Saturday we spent the day together went and got lunch, watched movies, that kind of thing.
Sunday morning she told me she wanted to try and move forward as a family, but couldn't make any promises. I said I understood and would be as close or as distant as she needed to help her. We spent Sunday together, and my son was brought back home Sunday afternoon.
I'm planning to get more clarity on what trying looks like for her today. But, maybe progress? Not sure yet.
To the question before, I have thought about the impact on our son which is what finally pushed me to "We can try or you can go, your call" essentially.
Until she's sure one way or another, it might be a good idea to wait before making Other Guy more a part of your son's life.
Also, individual counseling. Please, take care of yourself here.
That's the part about me getting more clarity from her today. In my initial reaction I think I let my being happy to hear something beyond gloom and doom that I didn't review specifically what that looks like. Because no, other guy cannot be in the picture for us to move forward.
Chiming in on the therapy recommendation. The quoted statement is framing that needs to be aided by a professional third party. It's not about what "makes sense", it is about what you want, which is reconciliation and a continuation of the life you are so afraid of losing, and what she wants, which may be different.
You keep describing how hard it is for you to suppress your emotions. Frankly, you shouldn't play the role of an objective party in your conversations with her. You are, however indirectly, representing your own emotions and that's it.
You should get help in facilitating this, or it may become cyclical.
I really wish you the best, regardless of outcome. You should realize that you have accomplished a lot, and have worth and merit on your own.
Our first game is now available for free on Google Play: Frontier: Isle of the Seven Gods
I guess its better? I'm still trying to sort it out. I'm also trying to untangle if it's for real, or if it's that she can't make leaving work on her income so is staying so her car payment, rent, etc is covered until she can figure something out and we'll be in the same place 6 months from now. And if its even right for me to consider that.
I agree on the counseling. Apparently still a no go.
Very unsteady ground.
Of course it's right for you to consider that. As soon as she declared her desire to divorce, she put you on notice that she no longer thinks in terms of 'us' but now in terms of 'me.' You need to evaluate her decisions in that manner until you have proof otherwise, and you know in your heart that you're going to have trouble being objective about that because you want to find that proof. I know you do and I don't blame you for it. This is one of a long list of reasons people are pushing for counseling.
If she's not open to counseling to reconcile the marriage, then she's not really trying. Frankly, she should want to go to figure out what underlying issue caused her to bail, if she wants to try to be happy in this marriage. Otherwise she's openly admitting that it would just be going thru the motions for your kid, which isn't healthy either. Nothing has happened that could have sufficiently 'fixed' whatever went wrong in the first place. If I were in your shoes, the counseling should be a put-your-foot-down part of the deal.
And you shouldn't wait at all to go on your own. Among other things, they might help you on an approach to getting her to agree to couples counseling (though you should walk in there with the mindset of self-healing first and foremost)
It seems very unlikely to me that you will both be able to compartmentalize your relationship in such a way that your son doesn't intuitively figure out something is wrong. However, I'm not a therapist and I've never been in your situation before. You also didn't elaborate on whether "person a and person b" means she's still with this other guy, which you said yourself was a dealbreaker. If she agrees to stop seeing this guy, would you believe her?
Based on everything you've written in this thread, I think your gut feeling about her sticking around solely for the money is a genuine concern. Even if it isn't, procrastinating won't resolve the problem. If she's not willing to take positive steps to try and resolve anything in this marriage, it's not going to get better on its own.
Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
Wilds of Aladrion: [https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/43159014/#Comment_43159014]Ellandryn[/url]
lolno
this is the worst idea
"I really don't want to be with you, but I also don't want to have to figure out the logistics of separation or give up anything at all so I can have what I actually want, so let's compromise. I get all the things and you and our son get to live a fake life with me in the house and never ever move on. Sound good?" That's not trying, it's an abuse.
Because playing house with a kid but not actually together in a meaningful way is a shit deal for that kid. I know families who live that way, but they're person a and person b at home, too, and there's no make-believe. It didn't work between them but they've committed to raising a child together anyway, and they're close enough friends and companions to do that and still honestly carry on with their own lives. It is not easy, and a lack of willingness to talk to a couples therapist at all bodes very poorly. Communication and compromise are so important, and it is in itself a pretty big commitment.
In my opinion (and again I don't know you guys but this is what it sounds like to me), doing what's laid out here for your son's sake is going to be terrible for everyone because it's a big lie; it's a lie to yourself and to your son, and it's a lie that it's for his sake you'd be doing it. If she's told you she doesn't want a relationship and she won't talk about it, she has either broken up with you or is counting the minutes until you break up with her so she doesn't have to feel responsible for it.
Honesty is easier. Be honest with yourself and your son; both deserve the truth.
Anecdotally, I know a family where the parents should divorce, but they're pretending it works for the kids, and the kids are struggling. Their oldest daughter has run away several times and is currently in juvenile detention. Kids need their home to be a safe space where things are real and the relationships matter. That can still happen if the kids' parents lead separate lives, but I can't see it happening if the parents are living one false life.
The refusal of couples counselling is pretty indicative of where this is going, and the co-parenting under the same roof will be actively harmful to your son in the long term; kids are perceptive and he won't be fooled. And it shows no care for your happiness either. I don't know you guys or your situation more than what's in this thread, but it feels like it's over bar the shouting now.
You too are allowed to make conditions for thing to continue as is. Counseling would be a very good one to put at the top of your list.
Don't lie to your kid. Your kid can handle Mom and Dad not being married anymore. Way more likely to harm your kid if Mom and Dad constantly lie to them and distort what they're views on what relationships are supposed to look like.
As it is, this doesn't sound like she's still "there" at all. I'd really strongly consider being the one to pull the trigger and file for divorce. Remember that divorce doesn't mean the things can't be rebuilt but it is a very clear sign post that what was, is no longer. If you both want it then you need to understand you're rebuilding and not just coasting. If you both don't want to rebuild then the divorce is just acknowledging where you actually are.
bingo
sorry =(
You are no longer responsible for helping her make decisions or supporting her well being. She made that choice, not you.
Devote time and energy to your kid and get her out of the house if she's not wanting to be part of the household anymore. You'll both be happier in the end.
This is not something to fix. She made her own choices and now is time to set ground rules and expectations that prioritize your kid and yourself. She can advocate for her own needs and you are not required to accommodate them.
No counseling
Introducing her son to the other person
Pretending things are fine
Staying right now for financial reasons
Lying to "not upset you"
Signs she wants it to work out:
??????????????????
I'm sorry, but you need to see this.
I guess what I am trying to figure out if it would be better for our son or not, and if I'm just reacting selfishly by thinking it's not OK. He gets both parents, he avoids shuttling between places to live, he stays in his school. He doesn't have to worry about why we're not both at whatever event.
I know what I want, but if that isn't an option, then isn't this better than nothing? Maybe I should just get over it, accept what it is, and move forward like this for our son.
Having to shuttle between two different houses may seem more inconvenient and unusual on its face, but at least it gives him a better shot at having loving and emotionally healthy parents who are ready to actually support him and care for him when he gets to those places.
There are a lot of studies that show that staying together in that sort of situation is way worse for healthy development then separation
Especially since even if you think you are both acting "cool", you probably aren't and kids are way more sensitive to that sort of thing then most give credit for.
You're not being selfish, it would be worse for your son, and it would not be better then nothing. During the dissolution of your marriage any time your son spends with both of you risks being very unpleasant for him. Neither of you can control the others behavior and it will be super hard even to control your own around each other, for awhile.
This is your attachment to your ex speaking. From what I've read of this thread, you are not currently capable of being a good advocate for yourself. Please pursue therapy.
There is absolutely zero chance of him not realizing something is off, and worse, not understanding exactly what and it making more damage than a divorce actually would.
I don't know, some things of this just sound really weird (starting to file for divorce to see "what it was like", taking the kid to see/meet the other man). None of this sounds like a great situation for yourself, your child or for your wife. Please seek counseling with someone about this beyond just an internet forum, even if your wife won't go with you.
I'm just afraid one day that 'seeing what it was like' filing is going to be "surprise, here's your papers" while all along you get the 'well, things are fine' talk.
No. It is strictly worse than nothing. Children will sniff out the bullshit, and it will not be good. All research has shown the child is better of when the parents split up rather than staying together only for the kids. I have watched many situations play out similar to this during my professional career as well. Anecdotally, this is a terrible idea for your kid and will only cause more problems. Rip the band-aid off. You are only prolonging the pain.
There are many, many options to arrange for child care that can make some of what you want work, but you need to be honest about what is happening. What the two of you seem to be dancing around is the concept of nesting as a form of child custody. That is where the parents swap who lives in the house with the children rather than having the children move from home to home. There are a lot of pros and cons, but it still requires you just own up to what the situation really is. There is simply no world in which it is best to hide the reality of your relationship from your son.
Talking to a therapist is a great place to work out comfort levels on this. Legal advice would also be good before entering into any formal custody arrangement. Professionals are trained for just this situation and can help bring clarity, and healthy closure to the whole situation.