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[X-men] Mutants in a Half Shell, Turtle Power!
Harry Dresden
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The X-men are a decades old comic book slash media franchise which have had a large impact from their cartoon series in the 90's to their juggernaut movies today.
The latest is Dark Phoenix, which may be the final X-men film released before Fox transfers the IP to Disney/Marvel. Reception has been...mixed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWbMckU3AOQ&frags=pl%2Cwn
Another spin-off is in the works, about New Mutants. Starring Arya (Maisie Williams) and the Girl from The VVitch (Anya Taylor-Joy).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bu9e410C__I&frags=pl%2Cwn
The franchise has since branched out into the tv realm which has two tv shows on their second seasons, which have been adored by their audiences.
Legion
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmBIn9De-Yc&frags=pl%2Cwn
X-men: The Gifted
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOi3WNrSk3E&frags=pl%2Cwn
They've produced quite a few cartoons, though Fox hasn't made any recently.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAkL2-vh2Sk&frags=pl%2Cwn
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6faj24XtmP8&frags=pl%2Cwn
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tw8uoMfhIjo&frags=pl%2Cwn
The latest is Dark Phoenix, which may be the final X-men film released before Fox transfers the IP to Disney/Marvel. Reception has been...mixed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWbMckU3AOQ&frags=pl%2CwnAnother spin-off is in the works, about New Mutants. Starring Arya (Maisie Williams) and the Girl from The VVitch (Anya Taylor-Joy).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bu9e410C__I&frags=pl%2CwnThe franchise has since branched out into the tv realm which has two tv shows on their second seasons, which have been adored by their audiences.
Legion
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmBIn9De-Yc&frags=pl%2CwnX-men: The Gifted
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOi3WNrSk3E&frags=pl%2CwnThey've produced quite a few cartoons, though Fox hasn't made any recently.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAkL2-vh2Sk&frags=pl%2Cwnhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6faj24XtmP8&frags=pl%2Cwnhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tw8uoMfhIjo&frags=pl%2Cwn Harry Dresden on
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Can we expand the topic to be the Fox Marvel movies? I'd like to rant about how much better Deadpool's Colossus is than 90% of the mutants in the main X-Men movies.
*-Hyperbole, but not entirely inaccurate. Fox's casting for those roles has been superb, but the X-Men movies generally feel like it's those three plus a bunch of other people that we may or may not need to care about.
That's fair. Personally, I thought she did ok with material in Apocalypse. I've been impressed with her acting, but not as a lead in a film like this before. Maybe she can do it, Gal Gadot did with less of a resume. *crosses fingers*
I agree they need to shift away from the three male leads, I liked Lawrence Mystique but the movies have failed to capitalise on her since DOFP.
Sure, I don't see why not since they are in the X-men brand. Agreed on Collossus, he's so much better in Deadpool than the X-films. He's kind of bland and reduced to a (glorified) cameo there. Thankfully Fox has started doing spin-offs, the franchise is too big for a single movie series.
The Phoenix isn’t a good X-Men story, never has been. It’s devoid of all the themes that matter in favour of cosmic Dragon Ball Z stuff. You also need to really like Jean as a person for it to matter.
I put forth that the platonic ideal for an X-Men movie would be The Breakfast Club with mutants.
New Mutants looks interesting. I do like horror movies so I wonder to what extent it is one. Not sure about that music choice there but I doubt it’ll be in the movie.
Deadpool’s Colossus is 100% the best interpretation of the character in film.
Actually him and Negasonic are arguably the best X-Men outside of Logan in Logan.
My first X-Men story was X-Men Annual #11. It's about trying to get a magic crystal from inside a booby-trapped fortress, and it remains one of the best X-Men stories I've ever read, in spite of the fact that it doesn't tie into the 'main themes' of the X-Men, whatever you might define those as.
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It just feels like the Fox creative teams read some poorly written wikipedia summaries devoid of context and based their scripts on that. I don't get the impression that they truly like or understand the source material at all.
I don't need panel for panel adaptations of the comics, but I mean, just get the spirit of it right. I've been rewatching Wolverine and the X-Men and it certainly doesn't follow an exact comic storyline but all the characters sound and act right.
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Forget it...
I'm not a fan of Gadot's acting, mostly her accent kills her ability to emote (for me); but she'd been doing the Fast and Furious movies for a while, which I think were more relevant for the Wonder Woman role than Sansa Stark will be for playing Jean Grey.
Didn't Colossus have all of 30 seconds in X2? Ugh. Fox could easily pull a Cable movie, a Colossus and Friends movie, and maybe figure out something to do with Domino. I love the character, personality-wise she reminds me a bit of Valkyrie, but plot-wise her level of weaponized coincidence kind of makes it difficult to raise the tension.
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It’s a complaint levied towards most of the studios making comic based movies. Most seem to just google “best character” or “best comics” for any given series and try to coast on that alone.
I haven’t seen a version of the Phoenix saga I’ve enjoyed but I love me a good spectacle so I hope this works out.
And I can get behind that for an episode of a TV show, or more obviously as a 20 or so page comic within a long running series, but for a movie? That has to have a solid beginning, middle and end, capable of standing as it’s own singular thing?
Within the run time of a Phoenix story you have to establish everyone (yes, even if there are prior films) and make the audience care, then send them to space and back and the rest is CGI fiery telekinesis.
I guess I’m nitpicking, but I think there are other stories to tell that work better for film.
Hell yeah, the Phoenix/dark Phenix arcs are the worst choice, specially with the current Jean, who may be a great actress but has NONE of the charisma that the Jean character should have.
Its going to be a CGI fest with very poor dialogues and probably a bloated story arc that no one will care for. I will still watch it, but I wish it was one of the more down to earth, personal-feeling stories. Even within the Phoenix stories, when the mastermind or whatever his name was messes with Cyclops head and Madeline, and turns all the x-men against him...
But one of the problems I see with the franchise is that they already picked good ideas and events from arcs they didnt use, used them wrong, and now they are out of the game. Like Mistique sabotaging cerebro in one of the old x-men movies, thats it, it wasnt really necesary then, and now one of the only ways to get Xavier and his OP powers out of the way of the action has already been spoiled.
Another good idea spoiled SEVERELY was Wolverine and Rogue hunting down yakuzas to get to the Silver Samurai, but they messed the dynamic between Wolverine and Rogue and they butchered the whole arc in one of the solo "Wolverine movie: not the worst one".
Maybe Netflix will eventually give us some nice comic book story arcs with relevant characters who inhabit the X-men universe. I dont trust Disney will be good for the franchise since Im not a fan of the cookie cutter avenger format.
I think Marvel-Disney will almost certainly make better X-Men films than Fox that are more faithful and better cast, but ultimately the X-Men team dynamic is not suited for films. There simply isnt enough time to give all the characters their due, yet there aren't many of them that can carry solo films.
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I don't understand how the Phoenix arc (Jean gains great, uncontrollable power, revels in it, loses control, dies a tragic death - or however they choose to end this movie) doesn't have a solid beginning, middle and end. It's a great tragic arc.
'Establishing everyone' will be no more difficult for this X-Men movie than it's been for any other, and will be considerably easier because there'll be no crowbarring in Wolverine for some sort of role.
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And if you go and see movies you're sure will be bad the studio will keep making movies just like it.
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Apocalypse was great, it was a Claremont story as a movie, warts and all. Worst X-Men movie is better than the best Avengers movie Cyclops was right.
I'd rate First Class and DoFP above X2, though X2 wasn't that bad. Halle Berry talking about faith was that bad though.
While the movie side's extraordinary budget suits X-men's CGI-Fest storylines (Dark/Phoenix, Apocalypse etc) this series (and it's countless spin-offs) may be better served in the tv format as it gives more screen time to flesh out the ensemble casts and special effects isn't as big a deal as it was in, say, the 90's.
Xavier really is a hinderance power wise for any story he's in with his God level powers so I'd be ok if he's killed off early in the reboot. In the comics his death (the latest which stuck) was how the school reacted and formed two schools, one lead by Wolverine and the other by Scott. Post-2000 the comics have tried a lot more to do more interesting and unorthodox stories to expand the mythos into being less cookie cutter, so the hopefully the Disney era will move onto new things than the Fox era.
Fox has done superbly on the tv front. Legion is mind-blowing, sort of like The Magicians with mutants, and the snippets I've seen with The Gifted (which is basically X-men: The TV Show without the Star Players) has exceeded. Lorna alone is an intriguing take on the Magneto archetype, without feeling like she's a Magneto clone.
I'd prefer the movies shelve Magneto for a while, he's worn out his welcome since they seem to hav ran out of interesting stories for him to tell now. It'd have bene fine if they had him in his peak Brotherhood glory post-DOFP, yet they completely dropped that angle for no reason. He needs to stop hogging the spotlight and doing what the comics do when they team up with him by forgiving him/ignoring all the bad shit he's done for temporary truce, they've only managed to do this right twice: X-men 2, and DOFP.
Maybe they'll do totally different stories (the Mutant Massacre, Genosha), I dunno. Probably not, though.
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For me, I just want to see it done right. MCU isn't ashamed of the comic book elements so even if they retread some of the same ground, they'll find a way to both be faithful and do a fresh take on it.
I've only liked maybe 4 and a half X-films, and out of those, they've still only used bits and pieces of various major comic stories.
I would love to see Genosha though, and Madripoor, and throw in some Alpha Flight cameos somewhere too. And a Hellfire Club that doesn't suck. There's a ton of material still there to adapt.
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Hell, I look at it from an idea that already make the X-Men operate in secret, and just copy that Claremont/Lee opening arc from X-Men with Fabian Cortez and the Acolytes and manipulating a man who wanted to be left alone and basically killing off Magneto and move on from there. Very meta.
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I think he would be a fun fight and visually interesting, but as the Lead Henchman for another villain with a little more depth.
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Forget it...
*If* it were to happen I’d be fine with it so long as they update prejudice towards mutants with the times and dialed back the stakes.
I’d be down for a movie about private schooled X-men clashing with Brotherhood of Mutants over smaller stuff like in Evolution.
A fan I am not (still better than Captain America), but like Reznik wrote he's a good heavy for a villain and people would recognize him a bit from the games. And just like the comics Fenris would work here and have the Strucker connection too. Hell, let's go for The Upstarts and not have them be ruined by the big creative shuffle of the Blue & Gold era.
Don't know what Marvel will do with Fenris once they have the X-men back, though the chances are superior with them than with DC by having them operate in two shows at once. The Fenris Twins are main characters in Gifted (sort of), so much so that they're Strucker's. Hopefully Disney will keep those shows active, if in their own seperate continuity to the MCU or perhaps fold them into it ala Constantine.
Admittedly McAvoy and Fassbender are teriffic though and I will happily see anything with them as Xavier and Magneto.
As for the movies, I have quite enjoyed the new series. 1st Class was fun, DoFP was the best X-Men movie made that just happened to have very few X-Men in the majority of the story, Apocalypse was the most comic book movie ever made and is basically a Claremont story brought to life and I quite enjoyed it, problems and all. Dark Phoenix...we'll see but it can't be worse than X3.
Marvel is smart enough to do an X-Men reboot that is more than just a retread of the other movies. What I wouldn't do for a true to life version of God Loves, Man Kills or the Mutant Massacre. Plus have the first movie just involve the original 5 X-Men and move on from there.
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Let Cyclops be headmaster, one with a power that is barely used and certainly not a plot point. Have heirs to Magneto’s views, to varying extremes.
Basically say the old films happened roughly between 1950 and 1980, and these films are happening 2020+.
Give me the good time-line for a change, where mutants get to live beyond the classic squad.
That is all.
You may resume discussing how the use of their alloted F-bomb got lazier and lazier with each film after First Class.
As ever, to make good X-Men movie, just go remake a two parter from the cartoon.
THAT'S WHAT THEY WERE FUCKING SETTING UP AT THE END OF APOCALYPSE.
I MEAN THIS WAS THE FINAL SHOT!
AND THEN THE TRAILER COMES OUT AND WE GET THE SADDEST LOOKING SHIT
If they do it more as a slow burn, where Jean doesn't die at the end, then maybe.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
MWO: Adamski
Potentially, something like the Dark Phoenix saga could rock major face. One trilogy for the Phoenix portion, starting low-key and local on Earth and then getting crazier and crazier as it expands out into space. Second trilogy dials it back down towards Earth and makes the situation increasingly personal, culminating in the final fight on the Moon which has the X-men pitted against their former friends among the Sh'iar. No screwing around with origins, no X-men backstories that take more than two sentences, just go right to getting the audience hooked on these characters so the stakes actually matter.
And since the films don't need to try and sell issues every month, they could actually for-real kill off characters, thus dealing with the most glaring flaw of the Phoenix saga in that none of the sacrifice matters much when nobody ever stays dead.
That being said, I hope the future X-men films stick with less grandiose stories and go with more personal ones on a smaller scale. When the characters are sweating it out over what to do for things like mutant registration, it's a lot more interesting than big blowhard save-the-world bits where there's zero doubt about what has to be done. Build up to saving the world, sure, but spend a couple films getting us invested in the characters first.
Did they ever explain why Thunderbird is a bad guy there?