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[X-men] Mutants in a Half Shell, Turtle Power!

Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
edited October 2018 in Debate and/or Discourse
The X-men are a decades old comic book slash media franchise which have had a large impact from their cartoon series in the 90's to their juggernaut movies today.

X-Men-Jim-Lee.jpg

The latest is Dark Phoenix, which may be the final X-men film released before Fox transfers the IP to Disney/Marvel. Reception has been...mixed.



Another spin-off is in the works, about New Mutants. Starring Arya (Maisie Williams) and the Girl from The VVitch (Anya Taylor-Joy).



The franchise has since branched out into the tv realm which has two tv shows on their second seasons, which have been adored by their audiences.

Legion



X-men: The Gifted



They've produced quite a few cartoons, though Fox hasn't made any recently.





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Posts

  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    Sophie Turner was pretty awful in Apocalypse. To be fair though, pretty much everything about Apocalypse was horrible. I just don't see her being able to headline this, and she's going to have to because they're not going to have this be the Magneto/Professor X/Wolverine show* that most of the other X-Men movies have been.

    Can we expand the topic to be the Fox Marvel movies? I'd like to rant about how much better Deadpool's Colossus is than 90% of the mutants in the main X-Men movies.

    *-Hyperbole, but not entirely inaccurate. Fox's casting for those roles has been superb, but the X-Men movies generally feel like it's those three plus a bunch of other people that we may or may not need to care about.

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  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    edited October 2018
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Sophie Turner was pretty awful in Apocalypse. To be fair though, pretty much everything about Apocalypse was horrible. I just don't see her being able to headline this, and she's going to have to because they're not going to have this be the Magneto/Professor X/Wolverine show* that most of the other X-Men movies have been.

    Can we expand the topic to be the Fox Marvel movies? I'd like to rant about how much better Deadpool's Colossus is than 90% of the mutants in the main X-Men movies.

    *-Hyperbole, but not entirely inaccurate. Fox's casting for those roles has been superb, but the X-Men movies generally feel like it's those three plus a bunch of other people that we may or may not need to care about.

    That's fair. Personally, I thought she did ok with material in Apocalypse. I've been impressed with her acting, but not as a lead in a film like this before. Maybe she can do it, Gal Gadot did with less of a resume. *crosses fingers*

    I agree they need to shift away from the three male leads, I liked Lawrence Mystique but the movies have failed to capitalise on her since DOFP.

    Sure, I don't see why not since they are in the X-men brand. Agreed on Collossus, he's so much better in Deadpool than the X-films. He's kind of bland and reduced to a (glorified) cameo there. Thankfully Fox has started doing spin-offs, the franchise is too big for a single movie series.

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  • Endless_SerpentsEndless_Serpents Registered User regular
    Hot takes:

    The Phoenix isn’t a good X-Men story, never has been. It’s devoid of all the themes that matter in favour of cosmic Dragon Ball Z stuff. You also need to really like Jean as a person for it to matter.

    I put forth that the platonic ideal for an X-Men movie would be The Breakfast Club with mutants.

    New Mutants looks interesting. I do like horror movies so I wonder to what extent it is one. Not sure about that music choice there but I doubt it’ll be in the movie.

    Deadpool’s Colossus is 100% the best interpretation of the character in film.

    Actually him and Negasonic are arguably the best X-Men outside of Logan in Logan.

    QuidFANTOMASjoshgotroTicaldfjamKoopahTroopahGnome-InterruptusMorganVphysi_marcNightslyrKayne Red RobeButters
  • BogartBogart Because I hate you Registered User, Moderator mod
    The fact that Dark Phoenix doesn't tie directly into the themes of alienation from society at large is a poor reason for saying it's not a good X-Men story. Not every X-Men story needs to be about them being hated and feared.

    My first X-Men story was X-Men Annual #11. It's about trying to get a magic crystal from inside a booby-trapped fortress, and it remains one of the best X-Men stories I've ever read, in spite of the fact that it doesn't tie into the 'main themes' of the X-Men, whatever you might define those as.

    Rezniknever dieFencingsaxHarry DresdenMrVyngaardIncenjucar
  • ReznikReznik Registered User regular
    I have no expectations of Phoenix being a good film. Sophie Turner is just not Jean to me in any way that I can recognize. In fact that's the case for almost the entire new cast. Beast is not supposed to be an anxious nerd, he was a football player in the comics for Christ's sake.

    It just feels like the Fox creative teams read some poorly written wikipedia summaries devoid of context and based their scripts on that. I don't get the impression that they truly like or understand the source material at all.

    I don't need panel for panel adaptations of the comics, but I mean, just get the spirit of it right. I've been rewatching Wolverine and the X-Men and it certainly doesn't follow an exact comic storyline but all the characters sound and act right.

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  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    It was pretty obvious that Lawrence was giving roughly zero fucks in Apocalypse. Not that the script had much good for anyone, but Lawrence pretty clearly just didn't want to be there.

    I'm not a fan of Gadot's acting, mostly her accent kills her ability to emote (for me); but she'd been doing the Fast and Furious movies for a while, which I think were more relevant for the Wonder Woman role than Sansa Stark will be for playing Jean Grey.

    Didn't Colossus have all of 30 seconds in X2? Ugh. Fox could easily pull a Cable movie, a Colossus and Friends movie, and maybe figure out something to do with Domino. I love the character, personality-wise she reminds me a bit of Valkyrie, but plot-wise her level of weaponized coincidence kind of makes it difficult to raise the tension.

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  • BogartBogart Because I hate you Registered User, Moderator mod
    Sure, Colossus had very little screen time in X2. I guess if you're a big fan of the character you'd have wanted more but it's hardly a flaw in the movie. X2 remains the best X-Men team movie anyone has made. Logan is maaaaayyybe better but is just about Logan, X23 and Xavier and it doesn't feel accurate to call it an X-Men movie as much as it is a Wolverine movie.

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  • QuidQuid I don't... what... hnnng Registered User regular
    Reznik wrote: »
    I have no expectations of Phoenix being a good film. Sophie Turner is just not Jean to me in any way that I can recognize. In fact that's the case for almost the entire new cast. Beast is not supposed to be an anxious nerd, he was a football player in the comics for Christ's sake.

    It just feels like the Fox creative teams read some poorly written wikipedia summaries devoid of context and based their scripts on that. I don't get the impression that they truly like or understand the source material at all.

    I don't need panel for panel adaptations of the comics, but I mean, just get the spirit of it right. I've been rewatching Wolverine and the X-Men and it certainly doesn't follow an exact comic storyline but all the characters sound and act right.

    It’s a complaint levied towards most of the studios making comic based movies. Most seem to just google “best character” or “best comics” for any given series and try to coast on that alone.

    I haven’t seen a version of the Phoenix saga I’ve enjoyed but I love me a good spectacle so I hope this works out.

  • Endless_SerpentsEndless_Serpents Registered User regular
    Bogart wrote: »
    The fact that Dark Phoenix doesn't tie directly into the themes of alienation from society at large is a poor reason for saying it's not a good X-Men story. Not every X-Men story needs to be about them being hated and feared.

    My first X-Men story was X-Men Annual #11. It's about trying to get a magic crystal from inside a booby-trapped fortress, and it remains one of the best X-Men stories I've ever read, in spite of the fact that it doesn't tie into the 'main themes' of the X-Men, whatever you might define those as.

    And I can get behind that for an episode of a TV show, or more obviously as a 20 or so page comic within a long running series, but for a movie? That has to have a solid beginning, middle and end, capable of standing as it’s own singular thing?

    Within the run time of a Phoenix story you have to establish everyone (yes, even if there are prior films) and make the audience care, then send them to space and back and the rest is CGI fiery telekinesis.

    I guess I’m nitpicking, but I think there are other stories to tell that work better for film.

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  • FANTOMASFANTOMAS Flan ArgentavisRegistered User regular
    Hot takes:

    The Phoenix isn’t a good X-Men story, never has been. It’s devoid of all the themes that matter in favour of cosmic Dragon Ball Z stuff. You also need to really like Jean as a person for it to matter.

    I put forth that the platonic ideal for an X-Men movie would be The Breakfast Club with mutants.

    New Mutants looks interesting. I do like horror movies so I wonder to what extent it is one. Not sure about that music choice there but I doubt it’ll be in the movie.

    Deadpool’s Colossus is 100% the best interpretation of the character in film.

    Actually him and Negasonic are arguably the best X-Men outside of Logan in Logan.

    Hell yeah, the Phoenix/dark Phenix arcs are the worst choice, specially with the current Jean, who may be a great actress but has NONE of the charisma that the Jean character should have.
    Its going to be a CGI fest with very poor dialogues and probably a bloated story arc that no one will care for. I will still watch it, but I wish it was one of the more down to earth, personal-feeling stories. Even within the Phoenix stories, when the mastermind or whatever his name was messes with Cyclops head and Madeline, and turns all the x-men against him...

    But one of the problems I see with the franchise is that they already picked good ideas and events from arcs they didnt use, used them wrong, and now they are out of the game. Like Mistique sabotaging cerebro in one of the old x-men movies, thats it, it wasnt really necesary then, and now one of the only ways to get Xavier and his OP powers out of the way of the action has already been spoiled.
    Another good idea spoiled SEVERELY was Wolverine and Rogue hunting down yakuzas to get to the Silver Samurai, but they messed the dynamic between Wolverine and Rogue and they butchered the whole arc in one of the solo "Wolverine movie: not the worst one".

    Maybe Netflix will eventually give us some nice comic book story arcs with relevant characters who inhabit the X-men universe. I dont trust Disney will be good for the franchise since Im not a fan of the cookie cutter avenger format.

  • ReznikReznik Registered User regular
    I would give my left arm for a GoT-budget X-Men TV series.

    I think Marvel-Disney will almost certainly make better X-Men films than Fox that are more faithful and better cast, but ultimately the X-Men team dynamic is not suited for films. There simply isnt enough time to give all the characters their due, yet there aren't many of them that can carry solo films.

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    Forget it...
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  • BogartBogart Because I hate you Registered User, Moderator mod
    Bogart wrote: »
    The fact that Dark Phoenix doesn't tie directly into the themes of alienation from society at large is a poor reason for saying it's not a good X-Men story. Not every X-Men story needs to be about them being hated and feared.

    My first X-Men story was X-Men Annual #11. It's about trying to get a magic crystal from inside a booby-trapped fortress, and it remains one of the best X-Men stories I've ever read, in spite of the fact that it doesn't tie into the 'main themes' of the X-Men, whatever you might define those as.

    And I can get behind that for an episode of a TV show, or more obviously as a 20 or so page comic within a long running series, but for a movie? That has to have a solid beginning, middle and end, capable of standing as it’s own singular thing?

    Within the run time of a Phoenix story you have to establish everyone (yes, even if there are prior films) and make the audience care, then send them to space and back and the rest is CGI fiery telekinesis.

    I don't understand how the Phoenix arc (Jean gains great, uncontrollable power, revels in it, loses control, dies a tragic death - or however they choose to end this movie) doesn't have a solid beginning, middle and end. It's a great tragic arc.

    'Establishing everyone' will be no more difficult for this X-Men movie than it's been for any other, and will be considerably easier because there'll be no crowbarring in Wolverine for some sort of role.

    Harry DresdenFencingsax
  • BogartBogart Because I hate you Registered User, Moderator mod
    I guess I also don't really understand complaints that previous films have 'used up' ideas for plots. Well, yes. That's what they're all going to do.

    And if you go and see movies you're sure will be bad the studio will keep making movies just like it.

    QuidFencingsax
  • TexiKenTexiKen he's got a f*****g knife in his hand...in his mouth Registered User regular
    The Dark Phoenix arc was great, them continually hemming and hawing and bringing the Phoenix back and making Jean always the Phoenix something something now everyone can be the Phoenix Hope Summers blah blah, that has been terrible.

    Apocalypse was great, it was a Claremont story as a movie, warts and all. Worst X-Men movie is better than the best Avengers movie Cyclops was right.

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  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    Bogart wrote: »
    Sure, Colossus had very little screen time in X2. I guess if you're a big fan of the character you'd have wanted more but it's hardly a flaw in the movie. X2 remains the best X-Men team movie anyone has made. Logan is maaaaayyybe better but is just about Logan, X23 and Xavier and it doesn't feel accurate to call it an X-Men movie as much as it is a Wolverine movie.

    I'd rate First Class and DoFP above X2, though X2 wasn't that bad. Halle Berry talking about faith was that bad though.

    Gnome-InterruptusMrVyngaard
  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    FANTOMAS wrote: »
    Maybe Netflix will eventually give us some nice comic book story arcs with relevant characters who inhabit the X-men universe. I dont trust Disney will be good for the franchise since Im not a fan of the cookie cutter avenger format.

    While the movie side's extraordinary budget suits X-men's CGI-Fest storylines (Dark/Phoenix, Apocalypse etc) this series (and it's countless spin-offs) may be better served in the tv format as it gives more screen time to flesh out the ensemble casts and special effects isn't as big a deal as it was in, say, the 90's.

    Xavier really is a hinderance power wise for any story he's in with his God level powers so I'd be ok if he's killed off early in the reboot. In the comics his death (the latest which stuck) was how the school reacted and formed two schools, one lead by Wolverine and the other by Scott. Post-2000 the comics have tried a lot more to do more interesting and unorthodox stories to expand the mythos into being less cookie cutter, so the hopefully the Disney era will move onto new things than the Fox era.

    Fox has done superbly on the tv front. Legion is mind-blowing, sort of like The Magicians with mutants, and the snippets I've seen with The Gifted (which is basically X-men: The TV Show without the Star Players) has exceeded. Lorna alone is an intriguing take on the Magneto archetype, without feeling like she's a Magneto clone.

    I'd prefer the movies shelve Magneto for a while, he's worn out his welcome since they seem to hav ran out of interesting stories for him to tell now. It'd have bene fine if they had him in his peak Brotherhood glory post-DOFP, yet they completely dropped that angle for no reason. He needs to stop hogging the spotlight and doing what the comics do when they team up with him by forgiving him/ignoring all the bad shit he's done for temporary truce, they've only managed to do this right twice: X-men 2, and DOFP.

  • BogartBogart Because I hate you Registered User, Moderator mod
    I'm kind of baffled by the appetite for a reboot of the X-Men franchise within the MCU, to be honest. By next year we'll have had something like 12-15 X-Men movies already. I'm not really anxious for someone to take another run at exactly the same material (Weapon X, Legion, Dark Phoenix, DOFP, Phoenix for the third time, the New Mutants, etc).

    Maybe they'll do totally different stories (the Mutant Massacre, Genosha), I dunno. Probably not, though.

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  • ReznikReznik Registered User regular
    Bogart wrote: »
    I'm kind of baffled by the appetite for a reboot of the X-Men franchise within the MCU, to be honest. By next year we'll have had something like 12-15 X-Men movies already. I'm not really anxious for someone to take another run at exactly the same material (Weapon X, Legion, Dark Phoenix, DOFP, Phoenix for the third time, the New Mutants, etc).

    Maybe they'll do totally different stories (the Mutant Massacre, Genosha), I dunno. Probably not, though.

    For me, I just want to see it done right. MCU isn't ashamed of the comic book elements so even if they retread some of the same ground, they'll find a way to both be faithful and do a fresh take on it.

    I've only liked maybe 4 and a half X-films, and out of those, they've still only used bits and pieces of various major comic stories.

    I would love to see Genosha though, and Madripoor, and throw in some Alpha Flight cameos somewhere too. And a Hellfire Club that doesn't suck. There's a ton of material still there to adapt.

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  • TexiKenTexiKen he's got a f*****g knife in his hand...in his mouth Registered User regular
    Muir Island Saga would be great with the Shadow King and a way to set up Xavier being in a wheelchair in a new way (if they go complete reboot), or use Omega Red is a solid choice for a movie villain.

    Hell, I look at it from an idea that already make the X-Men operate in secret, and just copy that Claremont/Lee opening arc from X-Men with Fabian Cortez and the Acolytes and manipulating a man who wanted to be left alone and basically killing off Magneto and move on from there. Very meta.

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  • BogartBogart Because I hate you Registered User, Moderator mod
    I am amazed anyone is pushing for Omega Red to make it to the movies. I guess every comic book character has fans.

    Ticaldfjam
  • ReznikReznik Registered User regular
    Bogart wrote: »
    I am amazed anyone is pushing for Omega Red to make it to the movies. I guess every comic book character has fans.

    I think he would be a fun fight and visually interesting, but as the Lead Henchman for another villain with a little more depth.

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    Do... Re... Mi... So... Fa.... Do... Re.... Do...
    Forget it...
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  • QuidQuid I don't... what... hnnng Registered User regular
    Bogart wrote: »
    I'm kind of baffled by the appetite for a reboot of the X-Men franchise within the MCU, to be honest. By next year we'll have had something like 12-15 X-Men movies already. I'm not really anxious for someone to take another run at exactly the same material (Weapon X, Legion, Dark Phoenix, DOFP, Phoenix for the third time, the New Mutants, etc).

    Maybe they'll do totally different stories (the Mutant Massacre, Genosha), I dunno. Probably not, though.

    *If* it were to happen I’d be fine with it so long as they update prejudice towards mutants with the times and dialed back the stakes.

    I’d be down for a movie about private schooled X-men clashing with Brotherhood of Mutants over smaller stuff like in Evolution.

    Harry DresdenLostNinjaNightslyr
  • TexiKenTexiKen he's got a f*****g knife in his hand...in his mouth Registered User regular
    Bogart wrote: »
    I am amazed anyone is pushing for Omega Red to make it to the movies. I guess every comic book character has fans.

    A fan I am not (still better than Captain America), but like Reznik wrote he's a good heavy for a villain and people would recognize him a bit from the games. And just like the comics Fenris would work here and have the Strucker connection too. Hell, let's go for The Upstarts and not have them be ruined by the big creative shuffle of the Blue & Gold era.

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  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    TexiKen wrote: »
    Bogart wrote: »
    I am amazed anyone is pushing for Omega Red to make it to the movies. I guess every comic book character has fans.

    A fan I am not (still better than Captain America), but like Reznik wrote he's a good heavy for a villain and people would recognize him a bit from the games. And just like the comics Fenris would work here and have the Strucker connection too. Hell, let's go for The Upstarts and not have them be ruined by the big creative shuffle of the Blue & Gold era.

    Don't know what Marvel will do with Fenris once they have the X-men back, though the chances are superior with them than with DC by having them operate in two shows at once. The Fenris Twins are main characters in Gifted (sort of), so much so that they're Strucker's. Hopefully Disney will keep those shows active, if in their own seperate continuity to the MCU or perhaps fold them into it ala Constantine.

  • Monsieur TMonsieur T Registered User regular
    The Dark Phoenix saga was awesome, it's just hard to get excited about yet another version of it that looks inferior to X-Men 2-3.

    Admittedly McAvoy and Fassbender are teriffic though and I will happily see anything with them as Xavier and Magneto.

  • Brainiac 8Brainiac 8 Don't call me Shirley... Registered User regular
    I would be surprised if New Mutants ever sees the light of day.

    As for the movies, I have quite enjoyed the new series. 1st Class was fun, DoFP was the best X-Men movie made that just happened to have very few X-Men in the majority of the story, Apocalypse was the most comic book movie ever made and is basically a Claremont story brought to life and I quite enjoyed it, problems and all. Dark Phoenix...we'll see but it can't be worse than X3.

    Marvel is smart enough to do an X-Men reboot that is more than just a retread of the other movies. What I wouldn't do for a true to life version of God Loves, Man Kills or the Mutant Massacre. Plus have the first movie just involve the original 5 X-Men and move on from there.

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  • Endless_SerpentsEndless_Serpents Registered User regular
    If I had my way, which I will not, the reboot wouldn’t undermine the old, it’d just start with a bunch of new mutants and assume everyone over 40 in the old movies died naturally and the characters that were between 20 and 39 are now the teachers or moved on to other things.

    Let Cyclops be headmaster, one with a power that is barely used and certainly not a plot point. Have heirs to Magneto’s views, to varying extremes.

    Basically say the old films happened roughly between 1950 and 1980, and these films are happening 2020+.

    Give me the good time-line for a change, where mutants get to live beyond the classic squad.

  • Monsieur TMonsieur T Registered User regular
    The thing is, it's kind of amazing how little continuity there is between any of the X-Men movies. There are enough recurring actors and visual continuity that they look related in pictures, but it doesn't go much further than that. As a casual viewer it was quite a while before I even realized just how much they contradict each other.

  • KrathoonKrathoon Registered User regular
    I liked the Olivia Munn Psylocke.

    That is all.

    Ticaldfjam
  • KrathoonKrathoon Registered User regular
    I need to get 90s cartoon X-Men.

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  • KrathoonKrathoon Registered User regular
    I remember this one X-Force issue where Xavier goes into the fried mind of Legion. I think it was the Muri Island epilogue or something.

  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    This thread is missing something important



    You may resume discussing how the use of their alloted F-bomb got lazier and lazier with each film after First Class.

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  • SnicketysnickSnicketysnick The Greatest Hype Man in WesterosRegistered User regular
    If the eventual MCU X-Men film opens with this theme in the same way as Homecoming did with "whatever a spider can" I think I may well up in the cinema because hot damn was that cartoon a really formative part of my mid childhood.

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  • tbloxhamtbloxham Registered User regular
    If the eventual MCU X-Men film opens with this theme in the same way as Homecoming did with "whatever a spider can" I think I may well up in the cinema because hot damn was that cartoon a really formative part of my mid childhood.

    As ever, to make good X-Men movie, just go remake a two parter from the cartoon.

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  • KrathoonKrathoon Registered User regular
    They need to make the movie look like the cartoon, no matter how silly it is.

  • amateurhouramateurhour One day I'll be professionalhour The woods somewhere in TennesseeRegistered User regular
    Krathoon wrote: »
    They need to make the movie look like the cartoon, no matter how silly it is.

    THAT'S WHAT THEY WERE FUCKING SETTING UP AT THE END OF APOCALYPSE.

    I MEAN THIS WAS THE FINAL SHOT!

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    AND THEN THE TRAILER COMES OUT AND WE GET THE SADDEST LOOKING SHIT

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    Arch wrote: »

    I never expected this burn from captain bushmeat
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  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD along with you if I get drunk well I know I'm gonna be gonna be the man whoRegistered User regular
    Doing Dark Phoenix again is a strange choice. I'm not totally on-board with it. I'll enjoy it if it's well-executed but I'm not optimistic. It seems too soon: not enough narrative distance from X3, not enough time to get to know Sophie Turner's version of the character.

    If they do it more as a slow burn, where Jean doesn't die at the end, then maybe.

    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
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  • Gnome-InterruptusGnome-Interruptus Registered User regular
    Its like if Game of Thrones only did the Red Wedding as a movie, instead of an entire TV series with build up and background and character work.

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  • Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    The Dark Phoenix thing is coming up again purely because of idiots running the show. They just want to squeeze out another hero movie and so they ask somebody for the top three big X-men stories, then pick the one they've heard of before (with zero understanding of how terrible it was the last time). Never mind that the MCU has hugely raised the bar for hero films and that nobody is particularly interested in 2005-grade mediocre cash-grabs hero films, Fox just wants to kick this out the door and hope the interest in good hero films will carry the movie into profitability.

    Potentially, something like the Dark Phoenix saga could rock major face. One trilogy for the Phoenix portion, starting low-key and local on Earth and then getting crazier and crazier as it expands out into space. Second trilogy dials it back down towards Earth and makes the situation increasingly personal, culminating in the final fight on the Moon which has the X-men pitted against their former friends among the Sh'iar. No screwing around with origins, no X-men backstories that take more than two sentences, just go right to getting the audience hooked on these characters so the stakes actually matter.

    And since the films don't need to try and sell issues every month, they could actually for-real kill off characters, thus dealing with the most glaring flaw of the Phoenix saga in that none of the sacrifice matters much when nobody ever stays dead.

    That being said, I hope the future X-men films stick with less grandiose stories and go with more personal ones on a smaller scale. When the characters are sweating it out over what to do for things like mutant registration, it's a lot more interesting than big blowhard save-the-world bits where there's zero doubt about what has to be done. Build up to saving the world, sure, but spend a couple films getting us invested in the characters first.

    TicaldfjamGnome-InterruptusMrVyngaard
  • lunchbox12682lunchbox12682 MinnesotaRegistered User regular
    This thread is missing something important



    You may resume discussing how the use of their alloted F-bomb got lazier and lazier with each film after First Class.

    Did they ever explain why Thunderbird is a bad guy there?

    Smrtnik
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