Ah controller issues, I guess that explains why I didn't notice any problems. KBAM 4 lyfe!!!
"Simple, real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time." -Mustrum Ridcully in Terry Pratchett's Hogfather p. 142 (HarperPrism 1996)
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AbsalonLands of Always WinterRegistered Userregular
edited September 2021
Yeah that was some good good good six hours. There is stuff left to do and see of course, but now I have all the let's plays to watch as well. People's reaction to the first big area and its music should be especially joyful. Holy goddamnit what a bop. I'll remember that part for the rest of my life.
I'm actually really surprised we'll see the same party in later chapters.
i am expecting that “Kris” will be posing as Kris for much of the adventure. Acting normal, basically. Until such a time as they can use the trust Kris earned to achieve whatever goal they have in mind.
Given that Kris and Ralsei had a talk while we were busy watching Suzie, I wouldn't be surprised to have them just voluntarily put us back in their body.
Honestly who knows what the deal with Kris is. Maybe we're not possessing them and they just rip out their soul sometimes so that they can steal pie without feeling guilty.
HOW THE FUCK DID YOU KNOW
Other people on the internet had guessed it and I just repeated it.
NEO|PhyteThey follow the stars, bound together.Strands in a braid till the end.Registered Userregular
completed the thing, will need to go back through to find the things I missed.
It was that somehow, from within the derelict-horror, they had learned a way to see inside an ugly, broken thing... And take away its pain.
Warframe/Steam: NFyt
The trio you fight there is called Sweet Cap 'n Cakes. Which is pretty dang close to "Sweet Cuppin' Cakes", the name of Strong Bad's weird cartoon idea. Also, when the CD player guy plays his music, it starts out real close to the "keyboard demo" that Strong Bad imagines his keyboard-headed doppelganger would play when angry.
A very early line of dialog is making me heavily suspicious.
How does Ralsei know about the layout of the school? I mean, clearly Ralsei is an anagram of Asriel, and Asriel is your college-aged brother in this setting, so maybe Ralsei is some kind of... shadow echo of his past life or something? His continued insistence on recruiting people through SPARE is such heavy-handed signposting that I'm pretty sure that's all going to lead to something nasty in five years when Chapter 7 is finally available.
My favorite musical instrument is the air-raid siren.
A very early line of dialog is making me heavily suspicious.
How does Ralsei know about the layout of the school? I mean, clearly Ralsei is an anagram of Asriel, and Asriel is your college-aged brother in this setting, so maybe Ralsei is some kind of... shadow echo of his past life or something? His continued insistence on recruiting people through SPARE is such heavy-handed signposting that I'm pretty sure that's all going to lead to something nasty in five years when Chapter 7 is finally available.
There’s this strange theme of the dark world being an imaginary or transformed version of areas and objects from the light world. Such as that ball of random objects that become the characters you saw in the first game.
So it’s quite possible that Ralsei knows that aspect of the dark world, and has info on what locations are what areas in the light world.
It is, of course, a Genocide Route. It's fairly complex to trigger too. You're basically trying to:
Go full Sithlord with Noelle.
And specifically to get on it (major spoiler)
Manipulate her into killing Berdly.
To actually make that happen, the main thing is to
Once you get Noelle in your party, backtrack as far as you can go, and then start using IceShock to kill literally every single enemy in the world. In addition to that, you need to manipulate her into thinking you have a crush on her (ferris wheel poster), and then repeatedly push her to do various evil things. Once she's 'strong' enough, she'll learn a super ice spell, but it costs too much CP to actually use. If you've frozen literally every monster before Berdly, Spamton will sell a ring that lowers the cost.
Shit man, that concept might be at least as unsettling as the original game
I'd say more
The interesting thing about Undertale geno is how impersonal it is. In pacifist you're engaging with the characters and their hopes and dreams, maybe trying to change their mind, etc. Geno doesn't care a jot about that, most emphasized when you walk straight across one of Papyrus' puzzles. They're just in your way.
This route is way more disturbing because it is engaging with the characters. It's personal what you're doing.
Not going to be touching this route with Lesser Dog's extended head.
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AbsalonLands of Always WinterRegistered Userregular
AAA developers and publishers: *spend thousands and thousands of dollars on writing, voice actors and trailer editing to make marketing and reveal trailers that conveys the game is wacky fun and features hah-hah moments, in desperate attempts to create memes and references*
Toby Fox: Potassium
Also disturbing but compelling theory about the game's themes
Your choices don't matter, but your friends' do.
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AbsalonLands of Always WinterRegistered Userregular
edited September 2021
Soooo (speculation based on piecing ending scenes of chapters 1 and 2 together)
Chapter 3 with Toriel filling in for Ralsei because the dark fountain appeared in the living room, and Chapter 4 with a fountain in Asgore's flower shop and Asgore taking Ralsei's spot, because something gotes?
Chapter 2 Ralsei stuff, from what I figure is the final area.
Ralsei says that each Dark World is its own “reality”, and darkners who try to go to other ones may end up unable to handle it. The result is what happened to Lancer; he turned into a statue, and can only be saved by returning to castle town, with its well of pure dark.
So, why is Ralsei fine and dandy in another dark world? Heck, he was fine going to the card world last time. I can think of 2 likely reasons:
1. Ralsei isn’t a darkner. This one is kinda staring us in the face. Is Ralsei actually Asriel? But why wouldn’t Kris or Noelle react to him more strongly in that case.
2. Castle town darkners are special. If the castle town well is like some “universal donor” that allows those from other worlds to live there, then maybe those from castle town are universal receivers, who can survive on any world’s darkness.
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Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
Within the first 15 minutes I remembered why this was so amazing.
Also never forget to just go everywhere. So much quality text to miss.
It is, of course, a Genocide Route. It's fairly complex to trigger too. You're basically trying to:
Go full Sithlord with Noelle.
And specifically to get on it (major spoiler)
Manipulate her into killing Berdly.
To actually make that happen, the main thing is to
Once you get Noelle in your party, backtrack as far as you can go, and then start using IceShock to kill literally every single enemy in the world. In addition to that, you need to manipulate her into thinking you have a crush on her (ferris wheel poster), and then repeatedly push her to do various evil things. Once she's 'strong' enough, she'll learn a super ice spell, but it costs too much CP to actually use. If you've frozen literally every monster before Berdly, Spamton will sell a ring that lowers the cost.
I've heard that the ferris wheel thing is optional, which is good because it's pretty easy to miss. But yeah, it's still a lot more specific in what you have to do than in Undertale.
Ending spoilers for that route.
It's hard to figure how the game could continue from this route into the next chapter. Technically the only major differences in the current state are Noelle and Berdly, but still. Even if both of them aren't going to be major characters in future chapters, it still feels like it would have a major impact.
It's also possible that Berdly isn't dead, but... he probably is. I'm also wondering if Kris stuffed him in the closet along with everything else, so he might just "go missing".
Anyway, game is good. I'm sure I missed some stuff even aside from the above, but I at least got the second shadow crystal. Now to get completely obsessed and watch some streams and stuff all week.
It is, of course, a Genocide Route. It's fairly complex to trigger too. You're basically trying to:
Go full Sithlord with Noelle.
And specifically to get on it (major spoiler)
Manipulate her into killing Berdly.
To actually make that happen, the main thing is to
Once you get Noelle in your party, backtrack as far as you can go, and then start using IceShock to kill literally every single enemy in the world. In addition to that, you need to manipulate her into thinking you have a crush on her (ferris wheel poster), and then repeatedly push her to do various evil things. Once she's 'strong' enough, she'll learn a super ice spell, but it costs too much CP to actually use. If you've frozen literally every monster before Berdly, Spamton will sell a ring that lowers the cost.
My daughter has a Ralsei doll, so to me he's forever an adorable plushie with the hat and his face in shadow.
"Simple, real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time." -Mustrum Ridcully in Terry Pratchett's Hogfather p. 142 (HarperPrism 1996)
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Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
Ok I finished it proper (still need to wander around the aftermath)
Wanted to at least get the main plot done to look into how much meat is on the phone and all the spoilers in here
My, that is some... stuff though.
That "genocide" route (which seems to be named snowgrave which is much better but also worse?) is definitely WAY more uncomfortable than Undertale. The act of turning monsters into dust seemed a little more cartoony. Freezing Berdly to death in a fake world and he can't wake up is way more messed up. Like was said, the fact its not a mute MC that is essentially a shell to fill with the player and is more you forcing an actual character to become that way just hits way harder. But at the same time, the whole game kind of just keeps going around it at least, not ending like you literally destroyed the entire game, makes it seem more approachable? I feel like I need to do it just for the extra boss fight, since the main story fights are all super simple. The only thing that killed me was toby is a toy car.
Can definitely see the improvements overall from Chapter 1 in the game as a whole, but I can't help but feel like both the King and Jevil were better fights than anything I did in Chap 2 (haven't looked at the secret boss and snowgrave boss though yet). I also miss there being NO reason to do any actual fighting outside of one mechanic on the Queen fight. Though the Punchout section was amazing and absolutely made up for it.
The writing is absolutely aces, as should be expected. I found myself saying "you know, its been years, will the was Toby's writing really as good as I remember?" Followed by "fucking A right it was."
I absolutely love Queen. Her writing and character was amazing and was a great "bad guy" to have along for the ride.
Ok I finished it proper (still need to wander around the aftermath)
Wanted to at least get the main plot done to look into how much meat is on the phone and all the spoilers in here
My, that is some... stuff though.
That "genocide" route (which seems to be named snowgrave which is much better but also worse?) is definitely WAY more uncomfortable than Undertale. The act of turning monsters into dust seemed a little more cartoony. Freezing Berdly to death in a fake world and he can't wake up is way more messed up. Like was said, the fact its not a mute MC that is essentially a shell to fill with the player and is more you forcing an actual character to become that way just hits way harder. But at the same time, the whole game kind of just keeps going around it at least, not ending like you literally destroyed the entire game, makes it seem more approachable? I feel like I need to do it just for the extra boss fight, since the main story fights are all super simple. The only thing that killed me was toby is a toy car.
Can definitely see the improvements overall from Chapter 1 in the game as a whole, but I can't help but feel like both the King and Jevil were better fights than anything I did in Chap 2 (haven't looked at the secret boss and snowgrave boss though yet). I also miss there being NO reason to do any actual fighting outside of one mechanic on the Queen fight. Though the Punchout section was amazing and absolutely made up for it.
The writing is absolutely aces, as should be expected. I found myself saying "you know, its been years, will the was Toby's writing really as good as I remember?" Followed by "fucking A right it was."
I absolutely love Queen. Her writing and character was amazing and was a great "bad guy" to have along for the ride.
Correct me if I'm wrong but
the normal-path secret fight and the snowgrave-path final boss fight are the same boss, but the snowgrave fight is slightly harder, as I understand it.
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Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
Ok I finished it proper (still need to wander around the aftermath)
Wanted to at least get the main plot done to look into how much meat is on the phone and all the spoilers in here
My, that is some... stuff though.
That "genocide" route (which seems to be named snowgrave which is much better but also worse?) is definitely WAY more uncomfortable than Undertale. The act of turning monsters into dust seemed a little more cartoony. Freezing Berdly to death in a fake world and he can't wake up is way more messed up. Like was said, the fact its not a mute MC that is essentially a shell to fill with the player and is more you forcing an actual character to become that way just hits way harder. But at the same time, the whole game kind of just keeps going around it at least, not ending like you literally destroyed the entire game, makes it seem more approachable? I feel like I need to do it just for the extra boss fight, since the main story fights are all super simple. The only thing that killed me was toby is a toy car.
Can definitely see the improvements overall from Chapter 1 in the game as a whole, but I can't help but feel like both the King and Jevil were better fights than anything I did in Chap 2 (haven't looked at the secret boss and snowgrave boss though yet). I also miss there being NO reason to do any actual fighting outside of one mechanic on the Queen fight. Though the Punchout section was amazing and absolutely made up for it.
The writing is absolutely aces, as should be expected. I found myself saying "you know, its been years, will the was Toby's writing really as good as I remember?" Followed by "fucking A right it was."
I absolutely love Queen. Her writing and character was amazing and was a great "bad guy" to have along for the ride.
Correct me if I'm wrong but
the normal-path secret fight and the snowgrave-path final boss fight are the same boss, but the snowgrave fight is slightly harder, as I understand it.
It is the same boss yeah. I dunno if the fight is the same though, but you do the Snowgrave version alone. Maybe that is all that is harder?
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Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
Also oh my god
I did not realize the final fight's head was actually based on your machine from Chapter 1. Not everyone will get to experience the wonder of the fucking Duck face fighting the final boss.
I did not realize the final fight's head was actually based on your machine from Chapter 1. Not everyone will get to experience the wonder of the fucking Duck face fighting the final boss.
I did not realize the final fight's head was actually based on your machine from Chapter 1. Not everyone will get to experience the wonder of the fucking Duck face fighting the final boss.
Saw someone say that the eyes on one of the Titans in the roaring cutscene look a lot like those eyes on the freaky cliffs you land on when you first enter the Dark World in chapter one. Went and got screenshots.
Not their wierd + faces, the eyes on the torso of the one in the center. They look like the same design to me. Those cliffs wig me out, and I guess it might not be without reason!
The dudes on the left and right kinda reminded me of Mister Society, but after looking at them side to side it's a bit of a stretch.
I did not realize the final fight's head was actually based on your machine from Chapter 1. Not everyone will get to experience the wonder of the fucking Duck face fighting the final boss.
Who wouldn't have built the duck??
Gotta max gun's
Speaking of that,
Does the machine you built change what the special attack is during the Giga-Queen fight?
I built the duck, and its special move was "totally sucky attacks", which caused my mech to have squeaky ducks surrounding its head, made its attacks squeak when they hit Queen, and healed me some to start the turn (I guess I was "sucking" some HP?)
So, do you get a different special move if you made a gun's machine, or something else?
I did not realize the final fight's head was actually based on your machine from Chapter 1. Not everyone will get to experience the wonder of the fucking Duck face fighting the final boss.
Who wouldn't have built the duck??
Gotta max gun's
Speaking of that,
Does the machine you built change what the special attack is during the Giga-Queen fight?
I built the duck, and its special move was "totally sucky attacks", which caused my mech to have squeaky ducks surrounding its head, made its attacks squeak when they hit Queen, and healed me some to start the turn (I guess I was "sucking" some HP?)
So, do you get a different special move if you made a gun's machine, or something else?
Yes, I definitely had a different attack with my fire machine. I got a good chuckle when I saw a video of someone who had a duck machine.
I can't remember exactly what it did though. I thought it was just a stronger attack?
I did not realize the final fight's head was actually based on your machine from Chapter 1. Not everyone will get to experience the wonder of the fucking Duck face fighting the final boss.
Who wouldn't have built the duck??
Gotta max gun's
Speaking of that,
Does the machine you built change what the special attack is during the Giga-Queen fight?
I built the duck, and its special move was "totally sucky attacks", which caused my mech to have squeaky ducks surrounding its head, made its attacks squeak when they hit Queen, and healed me some to start the turn (I guess I was "sucking" some HP?)
So, do you get a different special move if you made a gun's machine, or something else?
Yes, I definitely had a different attack with my fire machine. I got a good chuckle when I saw a video of someone who had a duck machine.
I can't remember exactly what it did though. I thought it was just a stronger attack?
Mine was called lazer mode. You do an attack that's pretty damaging and then the next punching phase you also attack faster.
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AbsalonLands of Always WinterRegistered Userregular
edited September 2021
I wonder if
Ralsei is constantly on Kris' person all the time, or something, as an explanation for his ability to move from fountainworld to fountainworld without issue (and his strange ability to know in which unused classroom the fountain from Chapter 1 showed up). Could he be the knife?
Ralsei is constantly on Kris' person all the time, or something, as an explanation for his ability to move from fountainworld to fountainworld without issue (and his strange ability to know in which unused classroom the fountain from Chapter 1 showed up). Could he be the knife?
I’ve heard someone suggest that maybe Kris and Asriel have a set of paired lockets, like [name] and Asriel did in Undertale. And maybe Kris’s locket becomes Ralsei.
Ralsei is constantly on Kris' person all the time, or something, as an explanation for his ability to move from fountainworld to fountainworld without issue (and his strange ability to know in which unused classroom the fountain from Chapter 1 showed up). Could he be the knife?
I’ve heard someone suggest that maybe Kris and Asriel have a set of paired lockets, like [name] and Asriel did in Undertale. And maybe Kris’s locket becomes Ralsei.
I saw someone else speculate that Ralsei is a personification of the set of fake horns Kris wore when they were younger. The red ones Toriel got for them when they asked when their horns were growing in. And that'd be why Ralsei's horns are pink.
Posts
I think whatever led to the Dreemurr estrangement is a BFD. On the Buttercups level
https://tobyfox.bandcamp.com/album/deltarune-chapter-2-ost
Warframe/Steam: NFyt
Also, there was a fun Homestar Runner reference.
The trio you fight there is called Sweet Cap 'n Cakes. Which is pretty dang close to "Sweet Cuppin' Cakes", the name of Strong Bad's weird cartoon idea. Also, when the CD player guy plays his music, it starts out real close to the "keyboard demo" that Strong Bad imagines his keyboard-headed doppelganger would play when angry.
Also, one of Ralsei's dances is from Peanuts.
edit:
Boss 2:
Also, a friggin' Bump Of Chicken reference?
I would've felt cleverer for guessing that Kris was the knight if I hadn't done so like, three minutes before the game confirmed it.
Steam ID XBL: JohnnyChopsocky PSN:Stud_Beefpile WiiU:JohnnyChopsocky
So it’s quite possible that Ralsei knows that aspect of the dark world, and has info on what locations are what areas in the light world.
And specifically to get on it (major spoiler)
To actually make that happen, the main thing is to
I'd say more
This route is way more disturbing because it is engaging with the characters. It's personal what you're doing.
Not going to be touching this route with Lesser Dog's extended head.
Toby Fox: Potassium
So, why is Ralsei fine and dandy in another dark world? Heck, he was fine going to the card world last time. I can think of 2 likely reasons:
1. Ralsei isn’t a darkner. This one is kinda staring us in the face. Is Ralsei actually Asriel? But why wouldn’t Kris or Noelle react to him more strongly in that case.
2. Castle town darkners are special. If the castle town well is like some “universal donor” that allows those from other worlds to live there, then maybe those from castle town are universal receivers, who can survive on any world’s darkness.
Also never forget to just go everywhere. So much quality text to miss.
Ending spoilers for that route.
It's also possible that Berdly isn't dead, but... he probably is. I'm also wondering if Kris stuffed him in the closet along with everything else, so he might just "go missing".
Anyway, game is good. I'm sure I missed some stuff even aside from the above, but I at least got the second shadow crystal. Now to get completely obsessed and watch some streams and stuff all week.
I really liked the FF black mage vibe
Wanted to at least get the main plot done to look into how much meat is on the phone and all the spoilers in here
My, that is some... stuff though.
Can definitely see the improvements overall from Chapter 1 in the game as a whole, but I can't help but feel like both the King and Jevil were better fights than anything I did in Chap 2 (haven't looked at the secret boss and snowgrave boss though yet). I also miss there being NO reason to do any actual fighting outside of one mechanic on the Queen fight. Though the Punchout section was amazing and absolutely made up for it.
The writing is absolutely aces, as should be expected. I found myself saying "you know, its been years, will the was Toby's writing really as good as I remember?" Followed by "fucking A right it was."
I absolutely love Queen. Her writing and character was amazing and was a great "bad guy" to have along for the ride.
Correct me if I'm wrong but
Who wouldn't have built the duck??
Not their wierd + faces, the eyes on the torso of the one in the center. They look like the same design to me. Those cliffs wig me out, and I guess it might not be without reason!
The dudes on the left and right kinda reminded me of Mister Society, but after looking at them side to side it's a bit of a stretch.
Speaking of that,
I built the duck, and its special move was "totally sucky attacks", which caused my mech to have squeaky ducks surrounding its head, made its attacks squeak when they hit Queen, and healed me some to start the turn (I guess I was "sucking" some HP?)
So, do you get a different special move if you made a gun's machine, or something else?
I can't remember exactly what it did though. I thought it was just a stronger attack?