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[WOW] Servers are up, Patch 8.2 ahoy ! When did Azshara grow three extra eyes ?

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Posts

  • kaidkaid Registered User regular
    Enigmedic wrote: »
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    When I switched to Alliance and rolled a priest, I did some War Mode stuff and also some BG stuff and Brawl stuff. Disc is definitely good in PVP in all modes I tried it in.

    I was able to earn two PVP transmog sets without much fuss as an Alliance Disc Priest. Also, I might have had fun doing it!

    Priests are fine in BGs. They are actually a lot of fun there. Its wpvp they arent that great. And the shield speed talent is in the same row as feather so its either/or. The only real thing you could do is spec into the knockback which could conditionally be good or bad in wpvp.

    The essences will probably be nerfed REALLY soon. Especially the one that gives resources. For rogues it gives 100% energy regen for 12s. That is a busted amount of burst. I imagine its more or less the same for all other melee.

    That essence is going to be super hard to balance. For some classes its way OP and for others like my warlock it's interesting but you wind up wasting ton of shards because it's hard to use them in the amounts that it gives you doubling the resource generators. Given the 2 minute cd on it I for some classes I don't know that is effective enough to bother with but for other classes it turns their boost into god mode stupidity. I highly suspect either tomorrow or next tuesday for the start of serious business a lot of essence tweaking happens.

  • kaidkaid Registered User regular
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    i'm glad they made flying so much quicker to get post-patch than in WoD or Legion. Tanaan Jungle and Broken Shore were both 4-5 weeks solid of questing every day to get it all done, and mostly that questing was useless for any other purpose. I hit Nazjatar Revered yesterday, and will hit Mechagon revered tomorrow (I missed a day of Mechagon) and it'll have been eight days total since the patch to get the flying sorted. On top of that the questing provides access to a bunch of extra stuff beyond flying, in the case of Mechagon, stuff like toys/cosmetics and fun stuff, and in the case of Nazjatar, fun powerful items for my class.

    Yup the rep grinding this go round was pretty painless. The quests to gain it are plentiful with a bunch of other stuff that gives lots of rep if you have time/desire to grind. In nazjatar just doing all of the pet battles once gives you I think 250 rep per fight for the first time you do that battle. Most of the fights don't require anything that crazy requirement wise to beat them. Basically its a couple weeks if you just do the main quest stuff and can be faster if you cat ass. It is way nicer than WOD or Legion speed wise.

    Both of the new zones are enjoyable hell mechagon has basically been flightish enabled since it was released. The Anti gravity pack stations get built almost instantly by anybody who sees them so 80% of the time you are likely zipping around at high speed even before you get the rep and the ability to hoover up rares and chests when you have the anti gravity stuff enabled is crazy.

    Smrtnik3cl1ps3
  • EncEnc A Fool with Compassion Pronouns: He, Him, HisRegistered User regular
    Mechagon is rad and I love poking around there.

    Nazjatar is miserable to me the more I play in it. The sub-zone identification is just not really there. I don't feel like im in the ruined capital in that side of the zone any more than I feel like i'm in a coral reef or really anywhere. It's just generic underwater place with annoying travel obstacles everywhere. I'm confused how the zone was intended to be laid out, because I can't tell a Naga base from a "forest" from a shipwreck. Its all haphazard and placeless feeling to me.

    fortyPailryderBucketmanEvermourn
  • kaidkaid Registered User regular
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    bowen wrote: »
    Not being able to manage your time because it's not gated seems more of a personal problem tbh though. Like I get it, I do, but it's also a really dumb mechanic just because you can't keep your hand out of the cookie jar.

    I'm not saying you're a bad person though dissociater, I often times cannot keep my hand out of the jar.

    Like everything in modern WoW, including the current Azerite grind, Timegating is a compromise. You need to give people reasons to log in each day and stay subbed, but also you can't reward poopsocking since that only leads to burnout and people quitting and is very unhealthy overall. So, you timegate so people can "do something" on the hour or two that they get to play each day.

    I think what they did in naz and mechagon is a pretty solid compromise. You can poopsock grind to speed things up a LOT faster but if you are not willing to do that the dailies will get you where you are going in a very reasonable time period.

    Like in naz you can shave probably half a week or more off the time to get flight if you are willing to just stay in the zone doing stuff. The pet battles alone probably gets you 3k or so rep and you can get rep drop items from various bosses/elites that are 150-250 rep per item.

    Mechagon like wise has a LOT of stuff you can do to progress by just doing stuff and grind it out. You can only do each rare once per day but there is a crap ton of them to do and the chests give good rewards and as you unlock more and more of your building options in mechagon what you can do every day increases. I think there are 4 or 5 rares that once you make the keys/tools can force them to spawn on demand or unlock them for access.

    Even just collecting scrap is useful as hell every 250 make a crate those crates get used for tons of useful stuff so if you are in the mood to just farm the crap out of stuff you are doing useful things by doing that.

  • kaidkaid Registered User regular
    3clipse wrote: »
    BfA missions and followers are very literally an afterthought that were put in because an Activision exec mandated some kind of mobile tie-in, it's a little jarring after the pretty expansive systems in WoD and Legion.

    Decent passive source of Azerite, though.

    Its also very useful for mechagon rare mats. The mission for 1-2 igniter coils is really handy as those get used for a lot of the better patterns and can be hard to get.

  • Coconut MonkeyCoconut Monkey Registered User regular
    edited July 2019
    Enc wrote: »
    Mechagon is rad and I love poking around there.

    Nazjatar is miserable to me the more I play in it. The sub-zone identification is just not really there. I don't feel like im in the ruined capital in that side of the zone any more than I feel like i'm in a coral reef or really anywhere. It's just generic underwater place with annoying travel obstacles everywhere. I'm confused how the zone was intended to be laid out, because I can't tell a Naga base from a "forest" from a shipwreck. Its all haphazard and placeless feeling to me.

    I dunno, I think I'm the opposite. I do like the depth of Mechagon, they've packed so much in there, but on the other hand the overall design is a little dull. I wish there was more of the underground city poking up or that we could go into without instancing. With Nazjatar I like the overall look, even the various "levels" of terrain, and the music is fantastic as well. Some of the mob types though...... I have an especially deep hatred for the stealthed spiky crabs in the north west who just pop out of nowhere and then keep aggroing on you every time you think you've cleared the fuckers, and the raging water elementals just north of the home bases that are just a little bit too tough and painful so you can't round up very many, and fucking charge around all over the place so it's nearly impossible to weave through them.

    Coconut Monkey on
    Enc
  • EncEnc A Fool with Compassion Pronouns: He, Him, HisRegistered User regular
    Enc wrote: »
    Mechagon is rad and I love poking around there.

    Nazjatar is miserable to me the more I play in it. The sub-zone identification is just not really there. I don't feel like im in the ruined capital in that side of the zone any more than I feel like i'm in a coral reef or really anywhere. It's just generic underwater place with annoying travel obstacles everywhere. I'm confused how the zone was intended to be laid out, because I can't tell a Naga base from a "forest" from a shipwreck. Its all haphazard and placeless feeling to me.

    I dunno, I think I'm the opposite. I do like the depth of Mechagon, they've packed so much in there, but on the other hand the overall design is a little dull. I wish there was more of the underground city poking up or that we could go into without instancing. With Nazjatar I like the overall look, even the various "levels" of terrain, and the music is fantastic as well. Some of the mob types though...... I have an especially deep hatred for the stealthed spiky crabs in the north west who just pop out of nowhere and then keep aggroing on you every time you think you've cleared the fuckers, and the raging water elementals just north of the home bases that are just a little bit too tough and painful so you can't round up very many, and fucking charge around all over the place so it's nearly impossible to weave through them.

    For sure, I'd love to have more Mechagon than junkpile, but you do have a sense of place between the 2 or 3 miniplaces across the zone. Trogland and Remnant Forest feel different from Junkpile.

  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    kaid wrote: »
    pretty painless [...] pet battles

    The best card in Hearthstone is your credit card.
    The lie of the year.
  • FairchildFairchild Rabbit used short words that were easy to understand, like "Hello Pooh, how about Lunch ?" Registered User regular
    I'm convinced that Matt Easton makes his videos specifically for videogamers and wargamers:

  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    Mechagon feels like the closest they have come to recreating timeless isle; it’s small enough that running around isn’t painful and there’s lots of little activities to do.

    The problem is that most of the island is a boring grassland biome; the immediate area around rust bolt is neat but the rest of it feels very generic

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    hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
    that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
    fortyLD50
  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    I just wish they'd stop adding more landmasses to the world map. It's ok to use the plot a couple of times of "magically hidden island is revealed" or "island is raised from the depths because of the cataclysm."

    But at this point we're well beyond that. At this point the additional landmasses everywhere is well past ridiculous.


    I mean, in an MMO that is perpetually updated and added to for years and years, I don't know what the elegant solution is. I don't have a better idea. I just know that all of these long lost islands popping up with literally every patch and expansion is getting ridiculous. There's got to be a better way to add new content to the story. And the solution to that is not Alternate Worlds either.

  • kaidkaid Registered User regular
    Honestly with mechagon it could be as simple as nobody knew what it was even if they knew basically that the island was there. I mean if you go by it by boat what would you really see that would make you want to stop. Its a junk pile with apparently broken titan toys wandering around which is odd but by no means unknown. What drew us there is the city of mechagon which we have not yet seen and is below ground.

    Smrtnik
  • PailryderPailryder Registered User regular
    eq went to the moon on its 3rd expansion...why haven't we gone to the moon?!?

  • 3cl1ps33cl1ps3 I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    Pailryder wrote: »
    eq went to the moon on its 3rd expansion...why haven't we gone to the moon?!?

    Moon's haunted.

    BucketmanMunkus BeaverDhalphirTynnanBasil
  • EncEnc A Fool with Compassion Pronouns: He, Him, HisRegistered User regular
    I'm def in the camp that moving forward updating places seems like a great idea while adding a few new ones. We got a number of places hinted at in cannon we can pop into, and more being added certainly isn't a bad thing, but more Arathi and Darkshore revamps to make them interesting would be great.

    Or, you know, a 15 year timeskip so we could rediscover the world and maybe have a Goldshire that seems like an actual town.

    Bucketman
  • BucketmanBucketman Call me SkraggRegistered User regular
    Or Azeroth finally awakens into a Titan and makes us a new planet to live on and we get to explore it or go on cool space adventures with our new Titan Pal

    Enc
  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    kaid wrote: »
    Honestly with mechagon it could be as simple as nobody knew what it was even if they knew basically that the island was there. I mean if you go by it by boat what would you really see that would make you want to stop. Its a junk pile with apparently broken titan toys wandering around which is odd but by no means unknown. What drew us there is the city of mechagon which we have not yet seen and is below ground.

    In a world with flying airships the size of the Alliance and Horde massive flying fortress airships, and a world full of eager adventurers ready to go anywhere and loot everything, and in a world with Brann Bronzebeard, and a world with the Explorer's League, there's literally no way that an island full of Titan toys running around would go unexplored this long. Literally none at all.

    That's part of my problem with adding more to the map. The Warcraft universe that they have given us is a universe so full of eager explorers and the means of doing so, both technological and magical, that there could not possibly be any stone left unturned at this point.

  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    Sprout wrote: »
    kaid wrote: »
    3clipse wrote: »
    https://www.wowhead.com/news=293190/this-week-in-wow-for-july-2nd-artifact-knowledge-started-alliance-war-mode-25-bo

    It's deeply amusing to me that the solution to "why don't Alliance players like to pvp" is just to keep cranking the War Mode bonus.

    The problem is basically all the hard core pvp'ers and raiders migrated to horde and it just became more of a self selecting issue due to guilds go where they have to so they can get a reasonable pool of recruits. The self selection got so bad that alliance basically is mostly casual/puggers now and there is only so much getting rolled anybody wants to deal with so they basically opt out unless the rewards are crazy enough to make the pain worth it.

    I logged in to Nazjatar at 6:45am last week and saw like 8 Horde assassins on the map. I immediately deactivated War Mode on that character.

    Meanwhile on my Horde character? I think I've seen maybe 2 Alliance players in either Nazjatar or Mechagon.
    I'm just not seeing it. I decided to put War Mode back on to do that stupid Rustbolt Prototypes for Profit war mode only quest, and Mechagon is fucking swarming with Alliance.

    The best card in Hearthstone is your credit card.
    The lie of the year.
    PMAvers
  • SmrtnikSmrtnik job boli zub Registered User regular
    forty wrote: »
    Sprout wrote: »
    kaid wrote: »
    3clipse wrote: »
    https://www.wowhead.com/news=293190/this-week-in-wow-for-july-2nd-artifact-knowledge-started-alliance-war-mode-25-bo

    It's deeply amusing to me that the solution to "why don't Alliance players like to pvp" is just to keep cranking the War Mode bonus.

    The problem is basically all the hard core pvp'ers and raiders migrated to horde and it just became more of a self selecting issue due to guilds go where they have to so they can get a reasonable pool of recruits. The self selection got so bad that alliance basically is mostly casual/puggers now and there is only so much getting rolled anybody wants to deal with so they basically opt out unless the rewards are crazy enough to make the pain worth it.

    I logged in to Nazjatar at 6:45am last week and saw like 8 Horde assassins on the map. I immediately deactivated War Mode on that character.

    Meanwhile on my Horde character? I think I've seen maybe 2 Alliance players in either Nazjatar or Mechagon.
    I'm just not seeing it. I decided to put War Mode back on to do that stupid Rustbolt Prototypes for Profit war mode only quest, and Mechagon is fucking swarming with Alliance.

    Whichever faction you are, the enemy faction both out numbers you and are now individually skilled than the potatoes on your own faction.

    Whatever class you play needs buffs, whomever is outperforming you needs nerfs, whomever is underperforming you needs to learn to play.

    Whatever amount of time is needed to grind something out beyond the time you're willing to put in is for poopsockers, whatever the amount of time is below what you're willing to put in is for silly casuals.

    Whomever drives faster than you is a maniac, whomever drives slower than you us an idiot.

    It is known.


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  • BrainleechBrainleech 機知に富んだコメントはここにあります Registered User regular
    I feel warmode is stupid as hell
    If you wanted people to pvp you should have thought of that years ago

    Pailryder
  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    Despite the fact that WoW's underlying game engine is built on the WC3 game engine, WoW's game engine is not designed for PVP. Yes, PVP servers did exist on launch day, but that is yet another remnant of the EQ days which Blizzard was emulating and perfecting back then. EQ had PVP servers in which players could kill and grief each other for no real reason at all. It was there, and you could do it. So Blizzard did that too. PVP for no purpose. Open world PVP for the sake of having it, but no goals or reason for it other than I guess whatever sick pleasure people get from ganking one another. Hey, I'm not judging, I played on PVP servers in 2004-2005 too in vanilla WoW. It was stupid and I was stupid and I don't know why I bothered with it, because there was no point in any of it.

    But anyway, the point I'm making here is that WoW's game engine simply does not support good PVP. It wasn't built for that. And the fact that they keep adding BGs and Arenas and all of that to a game that barely supports that play style is just baffling. And the fact that the PVP community has thrived as much as it has is equally baffling.

    Again, as someone who has previously participated on PVP servers where I opted in, and also very recently I have participated in PVP and enjoyed it, I don't know why. WoW is a terrible PVP game. It really is. If I wanted to play a PVP game, I should go and play a game that was built from the ground up for PVP. And other people should do that too.

  • EnigmedicEnigmedic Registered User regular
    Wow is probably the best 3rd person rpg pvp out there. Im not really sure what game you think is more of a pvp game. Gw2 is fun but almost impossible to parse because buffs and debuffs arent shown well, so its kind of spammy. Daoc is ancient. Swtor had some really good ideas but had a much clunkier engine and focused too much on the leveling and nothing else to do at max level. Tera i heard was good at first but went free to play/pay to win. Wildstar just... no.

    Wow by comparison is smooth and for the most part easy to see whats going on. Balance is always a rollercoaster but bgs are usually at least fun. Arena is still hot garbage though. It was probably my favorite on the classic beta watching a group of former blizzcon champs get 3-0d in wsg because there is more to pvp than just trading cooldowns until someone gets one shot.

    3ds FC: 0645 - 7166 - 9801
  • PMAversPMAvers Registered User regular
    edited July 2019
    Honestly, I think it’s less the engine’s problems and more class design. Like, they need to finally just have abilities work differently when in PvP like how FF14 does it.

    And stop listening to geese and finally take out any sort of gear affecting performance. Balance around that.

    PMAvers on
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  • BrainleechBrainleech 機知に富んだコメントはここにあります Registered User regular
    PMAvers wrote: »
    Honestly, I think it’s less the engine’s problems and more class design. Like, they need to finally just have abilities work differently when in PvP like how FF14 does it.

    And stop listening to geese and finally take out any sort of gear affecting performance. Balance around that.

    Back In vanilla I pvped in whatever gear I had on my warlock {I am looking forward to doing this again}
    As I liked I was better skilled than most of the people in raid gear

  • DonnictonDonnicton Registered User regular
    edited July 2019
    PMAvers wrote: »
    And stop listening to geese and finally take out any sort of gear affecting performance. Balance around that.

    The problem with this I think is the same reason pvp templates were unpopular to begin with - the pvp team ends up having a different idea for what a class should be doing than the rest of the design team, so you get some specs that are designed around the prevalence of one or two specific secondaries in pve, but the pvp team decides no we have a different opinion of what you should be doing, so you enter the battleground and you're doing horribly because that secondary is for some reason scraping the bottom.

    I guess that's less of an issue if you're creating separate sets of skills for pvp to start, but god I really can't think I'd trust the pvp team to handle the free reign of walled garden class design any more elegantly than the pve team.

    Donnicton on
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    Also, this is an RPG. You are supposed to be able to stomp someone if you've got better gear than they do, and it's entirely normal and expected for the genre of game that it is a combination of both your gear and your skill that determines your success and an excess of one cannot entirely make up entirely for a lack of the other.

    there are plenty of other competitive games that come from a position that everybody should start out equally and that skill should be the only differentiating factor. World of Warcraft is not, never has been, and in my opinion never should be one of those games.

    3cl1ps3
  • I needed a gnome to post.I needed a gnome to post. boom Registered User regular
    I don't have a problem with that theory in a background but I think that something WoW has struggled with is giving people interesting things to do in battlegrounds if they're having trouble in direct fights. I think being stronger because you have a lot of gear makes sense in battlegrounds like Alterac Valley where you have a big map and multiple objectives someone can be working on at any given point (well, more true for AVs of the past than now, but you get what I mean). If you're the Weakest Guy In The Room you can go somewhere where you're not gonna just be farmed. It makes a lot more sense in a battleground like Warsong Gulch where there's nowhere else to go and you make up a larger proportion of the team. The types of PVP experiences WoW makes are so broad that there's no one size fits all solution.

    (i know that we were more talking about war mode and world pvp but)

    liEt3nH.png
    bowenSorcha Ravenlock
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    I don't know that you can conclusively state that it's a bad thing that you can't really contribute in a PVP setting if your gear is bad.

    consider the difference in how it might feel to lose a PVP match due to a difference in gear compared with a difference in skill.

    when skill is the differentiating factor, some people are just better than you and always will be. That's not a great feeling.

    in my experience, in games generally, people like to have plausible deniability and they especially like to have reasons for why they lost that don't involve them personally not being good enough. Teammates, gear, imbalance, bugs, cheaters, the list of explanations goes on and on.

  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    The solution is to group people with similar gear into a battleground, thus nullifying the benefit of outgearing the noobs and casuals anyways.

    You either cater to the poopsockers or you cater to the casuals, you cannot have both unless you're doing the AV thing gnome talked about.

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
  • BizazedoBizazedo Registered User regular
    bowen wrote: »
    The solution is to group people with similar gear into a battleground, thus nullifying the benefit of outgearing the noobs and casuals anyways.

    You either cater to the poopsockers or you cater to the casuals, you cannot have both unless you're doing the AV thing gnome talked about.

    I would be pissed if they did this. As Dhalphir said, this is an RPG, gear should matter. Doing the above just sidesteps it for the people who want gear to not matter.

    As said above, I also think it's just due to class design and how the mechanics of the game have evolved. Defense is just too powerful now and the game has just power creeped / expanded to the point that it hurt PvP because PvE is the main focus. Given how the game's developed and how people, in general, can't handle PvP without plausible deniability, it makes sense that they focused on PvE....but PvP is pretty much forked.

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  • EncEnc A Fool with Compassion Pronouns: He, Him, HisRegistered User regular
    Bizazedo wrote: »
    bowen wrote: »
    The solution is to group people with similar gear into a battleground, thus nullifying the benefit of outgearing the noobs and casuals anyways.

    You either cater to the poopsockers or you cater to the casuals, you cannot have both unless you're doing the AV thing gnome talked about.

    I would be pissed if they did this. As Dhalphir said, this is an RPG, gear should matter. Doing the above just sidesteps it for the people who want gear to not matter.

    As said above, I also think it's just due to class design and how the mechanics of the game have evolved. Defense is just too powerful now and the game has just power creeped / expanded to the point that it hurt PvP because PvE is the main focus. Given how the game's developed and how people, in general, can't handle PvP without plausible deniability, it makes sense that they focused on PvE....but PvP is pretty much forked.

    I don't know about you, but I pretty much pop whenever I get confronted in war mode. Just one-two-dead or, at best on my tank, one-two-three-four-dead with most of that being stunlocked.

    Sorcha RavenlockBucketmanMaijinamuro
  • 3cl1ps33cl1ps3 I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    Issues with War Mode have more to do with class balance being atrocious, but I can't think of a time when WoW's ever had really good PvP class balance. There's always a few broken specs, a few trash specs, and then a bunch of "meh" stuff.

    BahamutZERO
  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    Bizazedo wrote: »
    bowen wrote: »
    The solution is to group people with similar gear into a battleground, thus nullifying the benefit of outgearing the noobs and casuals anyways.

    You either cater to the poopsockers or you cater to the casuals, you cannot have both unless you're doing the AV thing gnome talked about.

    I would be pissed if they did this. As Dhalphir said, this is an RPG, gear should matter. Doing the above just sidesteps it for the people who want gear to not matter.

    As said above, I also think it's just due to class design and how the mechanics of the game have evolved. Defense is just too powerful now and the game has just power creeped / expanded to the point that it hurt PvP because PvE is the main focus. Given how the game's developed and how people, in general, can't handle PvP without plausible deniability, it makes sense that they focused on PvE....but PvP is pretty much forked.

    Okay so let's say you have good gear. You do well in PvP compared to the average person. Let's assume most battlegrounds try to group similar skilled people together to make it fair.

    Eventually you're just going to get matched up against people at similar gear levels to you or who are just that god at team work.

    That is a lot of assumptions though, yes, but it wouldn't surprise me if blizzard tried to group people as close together as possible by item level to make it more 50/50.

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
  • EnigmedicEnigmedic Registered User regular
    Vanilla and tbc were actually fairly balanced. Im pretty sure it is largely because the base values for most abilities was high, and the scaling was actually very low from gear. And if you went for straight spell power gear you had almost no stamina. Warrior was the one outlier that scaled a lot, and was unsurprisingly overpowered with the best gear. But still was pretty low on stamina unless they were using pvp gear. Anything after that was when blizzard went crazy with secondaries and multiple difficulties and numbers + scaling went out of control. Late MoP everyone was overpowered so it was actually pretty fun again but it was still nuts.

    I do think vanilla was doing something right when someone in blues who knew what they were doing could fight someone in raid gear and win. Now a fresh 120 is missing out on azerite traits, their health is 1/3rd of a geared player, their secondary stats cant support their spec, etc. There is just no hope until you can fudge your ilvl up to at least have the stats. Azerite gear and neck level are basically time gated so youre screwed on that for a while and probably stuck doing lots of content you dont want to do to get it.

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  • 3cl1ps33cl1ps3 I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    Enigmedic wrote: »
    Vanilla and tbc were actually fairly balanced. Im pretty sure it is largely because the base values for most abilities was high, and the scaling was actually very low from gear. And if you went for straight spell power gear you had almost no stamina. Warrior was the one outlier that scaled a lot, and was unsurprisingly overpowered with the best gear. But still was pretty low on stamina unless they were using pvp gear. Anything after that was when blizzard went crazy with secondaries and multiple difficulties and numbers + scaling went out of control. Late MoP everyone was overpowered so it was actually pretty fun again but it was still nuts.

    I do think vanilla was doing something right when someone in blues who knew what they were doing could fight someone in raid gear and win. Now a fresh 120 is missing out on azerite traits, their health is 1/3rd of a geared player, their secondary stats cant support their spec, etc. There is just no hope until you can fudge your ilvl up to at least have the stats. Azerite gear and neck level are basically time gated so youre screwed on that for a while and probably stuck doing lots of content you dont want to do to get it.

    Hard disagree on TBC. PvP was nothing but Holy Paladins and Arms Warriors laying waste, with the occasional PoM+Pyro Mage spicing it up.

    BahamutZERO
  • EnigmedicEnigmedic Registered User regular
    We played different realities of tbc apparently.

    3ds FC: 0645 - 7166 - 9801
    Kai_San
  • KamarKamar Registered User regular
    Has anything ever been as bad as DK/Holy was?

  • TransporterTransporter Registered User regular
    Ya’ll forgetting about TBC Resto Druids.

    DonnictonSmrtnikdanx
  • 3cl1ps33cl1ps3 I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    edited July 2019
    Enigmedic wrote: »
    We played different realities of tbc apparently.

    You're being flippant but since there was no server crossplay of any kind back then (edit: there were small, limited battlegroups in PvP back then now that I think about it, but they were just a handful of set servers) that's extremely likely!

    3cl1ps3 on
  • I needed a gnome to post.I needed a gnome to post. boom Registered User regular
    SL/SL warlocks + Resto druid arena comps

    liEt3nH.png
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