US Government Shutdown 2018/2019 - read mod post on pg 23

191012141594

Posts

  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    I'm pretty sure McConnell is holding out at this point because he needs to see Trump's approval tank for there to be any safe way out for GOP senators.

    If they get Trump to agree to a bill without wall funding then every single GOP senator up for election in 2020 is going to be facing, "You shut down the government for more than three weeks for nothing. Why?" If they override a Trump veto then they're abandoning the Trump base for those same elections. The longer this goes on the more their only way out (aside from Dems caving) is for the base to turn on Trump and make them overriding a veto heroic instead of villainous in the base's eyes.

    I've seen some rumblings in other forums calling this the Harkonnen Gambit. McConnell is waiting for the right moment to replace Rabban (that is Trump) with someone far more pliable and likable Feyd (Pence) once people get angry enough. All McConnell has to do is wait out the shutdown to the point where that happens. He can swoop in with a bill to open the government at which point Pence invokes the 25th and out Trump goes.

    I don't know how successful this would be as Trump enjoys taking others down with him. Not to mention that whole Russia thing over the weekend that kinda implies that most of the GOP was in on it. So who knows? Would the rest of the US be happy enough to let it go or would Pence also be up on the chopping block considering how close he was to Trump this whole time?

    The 25th Amendment requires a 2/3rds majority in both Chambers to sustain. If they have that now they can just Veto override and turn the lights back on.

    Cogdurandal4532DouglasDangerGennenalyse RuebenElvenshaeshrykeFencingsaxTheSmackerA Kobold's KoboldKristmas KthulhuStabbity StyleZonugalEmperorSethElldrenEmerlmaster999L Ron Howardnever dieSkeithMidnitejdarksunLoisLaneemp123
  • CogCog Registered User regular
    Yeah, they'll override the veto of the shutdown before they replace Trump over the shutdown.

    durandal4532DouglasDangerFencingsaxYoutubeZonugalEmerlmaster999CelestialBadger
  • tbloxhamtbloxham Registered User regular
    I'm pretty sure McConnell is holding out at this point because he needs to see Trump's approval tank for there to be any safe way out for GOP senators.

    If they get Trump to agree to a bill without wall funding then every single GOP senator up for election in 2020 is going to be facing, "You shut down the government for more than three weeks for nothing. Why?" If they override a Trump veto then they're abandoning the Trump base for those same elections. The longer this goes on the more their only way out (aside from Dems caving) is for the base to turn on Trump and make them overriding a veto heroic instead of villainous in the base's eyes.

    I've seen some rumblings in other forums calling this the Harkonnen Gambit. McConnell is waiting for the right moment to replace Rabban (that is Trump) with someone far more pliable and likable Feyd (Pence) once people get angry enough. All McConnell has to do is wait out the shutdown to the point where that happens. He can swoop in with a bill to open the government at which point Pence invokes the 25th and out Trump goes.

    I don't know how successful this would be as Trump enjoys taking others down with him. Not to mention that whole Russia thing over the weekend that kinda implies that most of the GOP was in on it. So who knows? Would the rest of the US be happy enough to let it go or would Pence also be up on the chopping block considering how close he was to Trump this whole time?

    If McConnell disposed of Trump with the backing of Pence, and the billionaires who run Fox News then McConnell would face no problems at all.

    Here's the news for you the day after that happens...

    MSNBC - "Shock and celebration today throughout the USA as Trump is removed from office."
    CNN - "Interesting events in the capital today as Pence assumes the presidency under the 25th amendment. We take you to Mitch McConnell for comment on this"
    FOX - "President Pence (R) continued his run of good fortune today, voting to re-open government which had previously been closed under Mr. Trump (D). Mr. Trump had long been under investigation by the police, and his conspiracy with Democrats to close the airports was a step too far. Here is President Pence speaking at a the National League of Patriots dinner.

    "That is cool" - Abraham Lincoln
    DoodmannMartini_Philosopherdispatch.oMatevPLAMegaMan001TetraNitroCubaneelectricitylikesmeL Ron HowardMan in the MistsSmrtnikJazzNobeardjdarksunchrishallett83LoisLaneemp123
  • AbsoluteZeroAbsoluteZero The new film by Quentin Koopantino Registered User regular
    Trump will eventually fold. Then he'll take credit for ending the longest shutdown in history like he is a big hero. Just like the birther thing, "I ended it."

    cs6f034fsffl.jpg
    mcdermottMorganVSleepshrykeFencingsaxYoutubeMild ConfusionShortyA Kobold's KoboldCaptainPeacockCommunistCowStabbity StyleZonugalElldrenMoridin889L Ron HowardMan in the MistsNiryakimeGnome-InterruptusSpoitGaddezbrynhrtmnMegaMekJazzKoopahTroopahJaysonFourchrishallett83LoisLaneemp123
  • AthenorAthenor Battle Hardened Optimist The Skies of HiigaraRegistered User regular
    Is there any word about any movement? Is McConnell still in Kentucky?

    Official member of the Grilling Gentry
    "Brevity is the soul of getting your shit read." - Tube
    Rarely-updated Collecting blog
    He/Him
  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    There's scuttlebutt about a bipartisan movement in the Senate, involving Manchin, but it probably won't go anywhere.

  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited January 2019
    It is best to disabuse yourself of the notion that there is a plan here. There isn't. Trump did this on a whim and now won't back down. He has no plans or ideas or even understanding of what a shutdown actually means. He's learning only as an advisor tells him what is happening and it's a coin flip if he remembers that by tomorrow. The Congressional GOP are following reluctantly behind him because they see no other way to survive their next elections. They are trying to just keep their heads down and praying that some miracle occurs that resolves this situation for them.

    That's all there is to this.

    shryke on
    So It GoesGennenalyse RuebenSleepDoodmannCogMolotovCockatooXaquinabotkintinwhiskersFencingsaxYoutubeThawmusCommander ZoommonikerDuke 2.0Mild ConfusionSolarjmcdonaldA Kobold's KoboldRozLabelKristmas KthulhuZonugalLovelyElvenshaeElldrenEmerlmaster999destroyah87AbsoluteZeroRetabaCalicaelectricitylikesmeL Ron HowardthatassemblyguyKamarNiryaCantideAistanGaddezMegaMekboogedybooJazzShadowfirelonelyahavamjn6172YamiB.Havelock2.0JaysonFourNobeardjdarksunMillJoolanderchrishallett83Hellerbooyemp123
  • MuddBuddMuddBudd Registered User regular
    I don't think he's going to back down. It will end when McConnell finally does something, or when the government fully collapses.

    steam_sig.png
    SleepMolotovCockatoomoniker
  • Metzger MeisterMetzger Meister Registered User regular
    edited January 2019
    do legislators and such get paid during a shutdown?

    Metzger Meister on
  • CogCog Registered User regular
    There's scuttlebutt about a bipartisan movement in the Senate, involving Manchin, but it probably won't go anywhere.

    Why is this terrifying

    Gnome-Interruptuslonelyahava
  • So It GoesSo It Goes We keep moving...Registered User regular
    edited January 2019
    Cog wrote: »
    There's scuttlebutt about a bipartisan movement in the Senate, involving Manchin, but it probably won't go anywhere.

    Why is this terrifying

    Probably because I don't see a source linked.

    So It Goes on
    MvrckDouglasDangeroverride367shrykeFencingsaxThawmusBucketmanBrodymonikerMild ConfusionmcdermottPhoenix-DEtiowsajoshofalltradesAegeriA Kobold's KoboldFlying CouchLabelKristmas KthulhuStabbity StylePolaritieMegaMan001ElvenshaeAstaerethEmerlmaster999HonkDoctor DetroitElJeffeAbsoluteZeroTetraNitroCubaneCalicaMoridin889L Ron HowardthatassemblyguyMan in the MistsNiryakimeSanguinius666264HefflingGaddezMegaMek38thDoeChiselphaneArmorocboogedybooFawstJazzShadowfireToxDark Raven XSkeithlonelyahavaKoopahTroopahmjn6172BullheadBandableDarkPrimusJaysonFourBloodsheedNobeardjdarksunJoolanderchrishallett83emp123
  • CogCog Registered User regular
    do legislators and such get paid during a shutdown?

    Look deep inside yourself. You know the answer.

    Metzger MeisterFencingsaxThawmusBucketmanPLACommunistCowElvenshaeEmerlmaster999AbsoluteZeroMan in the MistskimeGnome-Interruptussilence1186Nobeardjdarksunchrishallett83
  • TNTrooperTNTrooper Registered User regular
    do legislators and such get paid during a shutdown?

    Most of them are millionaires or are married to someone that got a 6 figure job that exist for the spouse of a Senator you want bribed.

    steam_sig.png
  • DouglasDangerDouglasDanger PennsylvaniaRegistered User regular
    Cog wrote: »
    do legislators and such get paid during a shutdown?

    Look deep inside yourself. You know the answer.

    Yes, they do, AOC was branded a radical the other week for suggesting they shouldn't be paid

    And she actually, you know, needs money

    I play games on ps3 and ps4. My PSN is DouglasDanger.
    SleepDoodmannMatevCogtynicMrVyngaardFencingsaxYoutubeThawmusBucketmanBrodyGennenalyse RuebenDuke 2.0HiroconTynnanSolarAegeriA Kobold's KoboldTofystedethCommunistCowStabbity StyleNo-QuarterZonugalElvenshaeElldrenMvrckAbsoluteZeroTetraNitroCubaneelectricitylikesmeMoridin889thatassemblyguyMan in the MistsNiryaCantidekimeSpoitnever dieJazzShadowfireToxSkeithlonelyahavaKoopahTroopahMagellDarkPrimusJaysonFourBloodsheedjdarksunchrishallett83emp123
  • Metzger MeisterMetzger Meister Registered User regular
    edited January 2019
    hm. fancy that. cats playing a game that they have no stakes in, that has potentially fatal stakes for others. har har har. shit.

    Metzger Meister on
    CogBucketmanCommander ZoomCalicaelectricitylikesmeMoridin889Man in the MistsSirialis
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited January 2019
    They should be paid. If your position is that they shouldn't, then you haven't thought it through.

    Dhalphir on
    monikermcdermottsee317MvrckMoridin889Gnome-InterruptusBandableemp123
  • Metzger MeisterMetzger Meister Registered User regular
    If mail carriers don't get paid then the congress critters who put a hold on their checks shouldn't either. Congresspeople and senators and the like should absolutely be paid, and a very good wage too, but not while the rest of government isn't. They also, as previously noted, are not in as vulnerable a position as other federal employees.

    SleepGnizmoYoutubeTofystedethKristmas KthulhuelectricitylikesmeMan in the Mistsnever dieMatevMagellDracomicronchrishallett83
  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    I dont see how it makes them more susceptable to being bribed. Unless the bribe is tk reatart the dang govt in which case bribe away

    wbBv3fj.png
    Smrtnik
  • SleepSleep Registered User regular
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    They should be paid. If your position is that they shouldn't, then you haven't thought it through.

    I mean the only reason we pay them well is so they aren't beholden to monied interests which has worked super well thus far.

    Metzger MeisterBrodyPLAYoutubeTofystedethCommunistCowKristmas KthulhuZonugalElldrenDoodmannMrVyngaardAbsoluteZeroMoridin889L Ron HowardMan in the MistskimeHefflingMegaMek38thDoenever dieLostNinjaKayne Red RobeShadowfireMatevRhesus PositiveSkeithThawmusBullheadMagellDarkPrimusJaysonFourNobeardjdarksunJoolanderchrishallett83emp123
  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    So It Goes wrote: »
    Cog wrote: »
    There's scuttlebutt about a bipartisan movement in the Senate, involving Manchin, but it probably won't go anywhere.

    Why is this terrifying

    Probably because I don't see a source linked.

    https://www.politico.com/story/2019/01/14/trump-on-declaring-national-emergency-im-not-looking-to-do-that-1098886

    Source!
    At the same time, Sen. Joe Manchin (D-W.Va.) is convening a bipartisan group to try and figure out if there’s a way out of the shutdown by pairing border security with immigration reform, according to a person familiar with the group. Manchin was left out of a GOP group last week that tried and failed to get out of the shutdown.

    Sen. John Cornyn (R-Texas) said he’d had some conversations across the aisle but isn’t an “official gang member.”

    “If they come up with something the president will sign, that will do it,” Cornyn said of the group.

    Among the senators meeting with Manchin were Sens. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C), Susan Collins (R-Maine), Tim Kaine (D-Va.), Lamar Alexander (R-Tenn.) and Chris Coons (D-Del.). Heading into the bipartisan meeting, Coons was downbeat on chances for success.

    I have Politico and the Post permanently open right now.

    03x29di.png
  • NogginNoggin Registered User regular
    My contract was still funded, but stopped work today. Womp womp.

    Can’t say I have the greatest confidence in getting back soon either... what a clown show.

    Battletag: Noggin#1936
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    If mail carriers don't get paid then the congress critters who put a hold on their checks shouldn't either. Congresspeople and senators and the like should absolutely be paid, and a very good wage too, but not while the rest of government isn't. They also, as previously noted, are not in as vulnerable a position as other federal employees.

    Post Office isn't a branch of the Government, receives no tax dollars, and is being paid.



    Congress staff should not be furloughed during a shutdown because who is going to write the actual legislation ending the shutdown?

    FencingsaxMazzyxjmcdonaldOghulkLovelyMartini_PhilosopherElvenshaeElldrenMoridin889DevoutlyApatheticGnome-InterruptusThawmusBucketmanemp123
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited January 2019
    Dhalphir was warned for this.
    If mail carriers don't get paid then the congress critters who put a hold on their checks shouldn't either. Congresspeople and senators and the like should absolutely be paid, and a very good wage too, but not while the rest of government isn't. They also, as previously noted, are not in as vulnerable a position as other federal employees.

    Okay, since you're insistent on not thinking it through and letting your self righteousness block your logical thinking.

    Many members of Congress are independently wealthy and would not care whether they are paid during the shutdown. Some are not, and absolutely would care.

    What happens leading up to a shutdown when some of those involved in the process will be financially hurt by it, and some won't? Do you see the problem there?

    It's extremely important that those involved in passing legislation are free from day to day worries so that they can actually concentrate on their jobs. Yes, they do a shit job sometimes. No, it wouldn't be better if you made them feel the same pain here, because it would not apply the pain equally to them all.

    Also like 70+ Senators and Congresspeople are donating their salaries during the shutdown anyway; https://edition.cnn.com/2019/01/08/politics/congress-members-no-pay-shutdown/index.html

    Dhalphir on
    Mild ConfusionmonikertinwhiskersKamarGnome-InterruptusHefflingMegaMekDarkPrimusjdarksunemp123
  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    So It Goes wrote: »
    Cog wrote: »
    There's scuttlebutt about a bipartisan movement in the Senate, involving Manchin, but it probably won't go anywhere.

    Why is this terrifying

    Probably because I don't see a source linked.

    Sorry.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/bipartisan-senate-group-forming-in-search-of-shutdown-deal-after-party-leaders-stalemate/2019/01/14/0ac704b4-182c-11e9-8813-cb9dec761e73_story.html

  • SleepSleep Registered User regular
    moniker wrote: »
    If mail carriers don't get paid then the congress critters who put a hold on their checks shouldn't either. Congresspeople and senators and the like should absolutely be paid, and a very good wage too, but not while the rest of government isn't. They also, as previously noted, are not in as vulnerable a position as other federal employees.

    Post Office isn't a branch of the Government, receives no tax dollars, and is being paid.



    Congress staff should not be furloughed during a shutdown because who is going to write the actual legislation ending the shutdown?

    Oh no they should be chained to their desk still, they should just get no pay for it. Even retroactively. You failed at your job so bad the whole organization you represent shut down. Fix it, and be thankful we allowed you to continue.

    tynicL Ron HowardMan in the MistsMatevSkeithchrishallett83
  • Metzger MeisterMetzger Meister Registered User regular
    moniker wrote: »
    If mail carriers don't get paid then the congress critters who put a hold on their checks shouldn't either. Congresspeople and senators and the like should absolutely be paid, and a very good wage too, but not while the rest of government isn't. They also, as previously noted, are not in as vulnerable a position as other federal employees.

    Post Office isn't a branch of the Government, receives no tax dollars, and is being paid.



    Congress staff should not be furloughed during a shutdown because who is going to write the actual legislation ending the shutdown?

    Guess they'll just have to work without pay like they're demanding of other government employees!

    DouglasDangerYoutubeElvenshaeMagellDracomicron
  • Mild ConfusionMild Confusion Smash All Things Registered User regular
    I agree with Dhalphir.

    It sounds counterintuitive to pay Congress during a shutdown, but when I think about it, it would just end up being another weapon for McConnell and Trump to use on other non-wealthy Senators and Representatives.

    steam_sig.png

    Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
    DhalphirmcdermottPhoenix-DGennenalyse RuebenLovelyCelestialBadgerelectricitylikesmeMoridin889L Ron HowardGnome-InterruptusJayKaosBucketman
  • DehumanizedDehumanized Registered User regular
    really the counter-intuitive part is that we're compelling anyone to work without pay at all

    joshofalltradesFencingsaxHiroconDhalphiroverride367A Kobold's KoboldYoutubeRozdiscriderOghulkTofystedethCommunistCowshrykeStabbity StyleNo-QuarterLovelyElvenshaeEmerlmaster999AbsoluteZeroelectricitylikesmeMoridin889L Ron HowardPreacherthatassemblyguyKamarMan in the MistsNiryaCantidekimeKristmas KthulhuMegaMeknever dieboogedybooJazzShadowfireMatevThawmusKoopahTroopahBullheadMagellDronus86JayKaosBucketmanabotkinBandableDarkPrimusDracomicronJaysonFourNobeardjdarksunJoolanderchrishallett83emp123
  • DouglasDangerDouglasDanger PennsylvaniaRegistered User regular
    I agree with Dhalphir.

    It sounds counterintuitive to pay Congress during a shutdown, but when I think about it, it would just end up being another weapon for McConnell and Trump to use on other non-wealthy Senators and Representatives.

    There's a fix for that, but it's outside the scope of this thread

    Where's Gritty?

    I play games on ps3 and ps4. My PSN is DouglasDanger.
    SleepShortyBloodsheed
  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    You work, you get paid.

    That extends to senators as well as lowly staffers, auditors, contractors, etc.

    mcdermottAngelHedgieBrodyA Kobold's KoboldFlying CouchOghulkElvenshaeJohnny ChopsockyL Ron HowardMan in the MistsKristmas KthulhuJazzMatevBucketmanchrishallett83
  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited January 2019
    ...Philly

    Fencingsax on
    torchlight-sig-80.jpg
  • Metzger MeisterMetzger Meister Registered User regular
    edited January 2019
    moniker wrote: »
    If mail carriers don't get paid then the congress critters who put a hold on their checks shouldn't either. Congresspeople and senators and the like should absolutely be paid, and a very good wage too, but not while the rest of government isn't. They also, as previously noted, are not in as vulnerable a position as other federal employees.

    Post Office isn't a branch of the Government, receives no tax dollars, and is being paid.



    Congress staff should not be furloughed during a shutdown because who is going to write the actual legislation ending the shutdown?

    Also, I will say, I actually did not know that the Post Office was so separate from the federal government, and that is certainly something I was ignorant of, so thank you! It was more an example than anything, but a clumsy one it turns out, so I'd like again to genuinely express my appreciation for the information.

    edit: i guess, to put a point on it, i hate the idea that some of the people responsible for this are still getting a check cut when, by my reckoning, they should be boiling in the same pot with everyone else. our legislators are meant to be normal citizens, or so i was told growing up, not lords and monarchs. i don't know. turns my stomach. i understand it i guess but that sure as hell don't make it right, not by a long shot.

    Metzger Meister on
    ManetherenWolfMatevBucketmanNobeard
  • PLAPLA The process.Registered User regular
    How about the more wealthy senators have to pay the less wealthy senators?

  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. 5386-8443-8937Registered User regular
    This wouldnt be the first time right wing Democrats have overestimated their ability to get something done

    wq09t4opzrlc.jpg
    YoutubeshrykeNo-QuarterKamarCantideGnome-InterruptusKayne Red RobeMatevThawmusBandableBloodsheedchrishallett83emp123
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    Sleep wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    If mail carriers don't get paid then the congress critters who put a hold on their checks shouldn't either. Congresspeople and senators and the like should absolutely be paid, and a very good wage too, but not while the rest of government isn't. They also, as previously noted, are not in as vulnerable a position as other federal employees.

    Post Office isn't a branch of the Government, receives no tax dollars, and is being paid.



    Congress staff should not be furloughed during a shutdown because who is going to write the actual legislation ending the shutdown?

    Oh no they should be chained to their desk still, they should just get no pay for it. Even retroactively. You failed at your job so bad the whole organization you represent shut down. Fix it, and be thankful we allowed you to continue.

    Staffers do not Represent anybody, that's their boss. And their boss can afford to not receive their salary without being evicted so the actual impact you are proposing to squeeze them harder... won't actually squeeze them at all.

  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited January 2019
    i hate the idea that some of the people responsible for this are still getting a check cut when, by my reckoning, they should be boiling in the same pot with everyone else

    Except in this analogy, many of them have fireproof suits so they'd be in the pot but they wouldn't be boiling.

    I absolutely understand your indignation but ultimately trying to prevent them from being paid is just unproductively lashing out because it would not achieve your goal and would in fact make things worse.

    Dhalphir on
    monikershrykeKamarGnome-InterruptusMegaMekThawmusemp123
  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. 5386-8443-8937Registered User regular
    edited January 2019
    Halting their pay would further enshrine government as a past time for the wealthy

    Styrofoam Sammich on
    wq09t4opzrlc.jpg
    monikerDhalphirjoshofalltradesenlightenedbumShortyAngelHedgieA Kobold's KoboldTynnanFencingsaxshrykeLabelNo-QuarterMild ConfusionLovelyStabbity StyleMartini_PhilosopherMvrckZomroAbsoluteZeroMoridin889L Ron HowardthatassemblyguyKamarCommander ZoomCantideGnome-InterruptusKristmas KthulhuSanguinius666264MegaMekbrynhrtmnRedTideJazzShadowfireToxMatevThawmusKoopahTroopahBucketmanabotkinBandableDarkPrimusJaysonFourBloodsheedNobeardjdarksunchrishallett83Klytusemp123
  • Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    So It Goes wrote: »
    Cog wrote: »
    There's scuttlebutt about a bipartisan movement in the Senate, involving Manchin, but it probably won't go anywhere.

    Why is this terrifying

    Probably because I don't see a source linked.

    https://www.politico.com/story/2019/01/14/trump-on-declaring-national-emergency-im-not-looking-to-do-that-1098886

    Source!
    At the same time, Sen. Joe Manchin (D-W.Va.) is convening a bipartisan group to try and figure out if there’s a way out of the shutdown by pairing border security with immigration reform, according to a person familiar with the group. Manchin was left out of a GOP group last week that tried and failed to get out of the shutdown.

    Sen. John Cornyn (R-Texas) said he’d had some conversations across the aisle but isn’t an “official gang member.”

    “If they come up with something the president will sign, that will do it,” Cornyn said of the group.

    Among the senators meeting with Manchin were Sens. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C), Susan Collins (R-Maine), Tim Kaine (D-Va.), Lamar Alexander (R-Tenn.) and Chris Coons (D-Del.). Heading into the bipartisan meeting, Coons was downbeat on chances for success.

    I have Politico and the Post permanently open right now.

    Spoiler: Trump is a child and won't sign anything.

    YoutubeMartini_PhilosopherEmerlmaster999electricitylikesmeMan in the MistsKayne Red RobeThawmusJaysonFour
  • PLAPLA The process.Registered User regular
    edited January 2019
    Then nobody is hurting financially, and no additional money is paid to senators as a group. I think everyone can be happy with that.

    PLA on
  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    Halting their pay would further enshrine government as a past time for the wealthy

    Also “lol maybe they should work for no pay and be shackled to their desks” is super illiberal nonsense

    monikerAngelHedgieA Kobold's KoboldGennenalyse RuebenmcdermottshrykeCantidoMoridin889KamarMegaMekMatevThawmus
This discussion has been closed.