To mix things up and be mad about something else for a moment, the headline of The Times today is someone calling for an end to the trans "experiment", expressing concerns for children in the NHS being allowed to undergo surgery without any evidence of long term effects.
Applying arguments about vaping to gender identity. I'm kind of impressed at how annoyed I am at it.
An anti-trans story in the UK press? Must be a day ending in Y.
this stuff crosses borders - had a swedish friend recently asking about it because the uk stories were escaping there and she didnt really know what to say to her friends about it. lots of people with ugly feelings looking for something, anything, to legitimise them and the uk seems to be ground zero for a certain kind of middle aged middle class pseudo-educated transphobia of a particularly stupid kind
of course their concern never extends to trans men. very peculiar
You say pseudo-educated, but there are some academic disciplines in the UK which seem to be filled with "gender critical" researchers for some reason. I have no idea why it's happened but I'd almost suggest that we're the international hub for anti-trans academics.
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surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
To mix things up and be mad about something else for a moment, the headline of The Times today is someone calling for an end to the trans "experiment", expressing concerns for children in the NHS being allowed to undergo surgery without any evidence of long term effects.
Applying arguments about vaping to gender identity. I'm kind of impressed at how annoyed I am at it.
An anti-trans story in the UK press? Must be a day ending in Y.
this stuff crosses borders - had a swedish friend recently asking about it because the uk stories were escaping there and she didnt really know what to say to her friends about it. lots of people with ugly feelings looking for something, anything, to legitimise them and the uk seems to be ground zero for a certain kind of middle aged middle class pseudo-educated transphobia of a particularly stupid kind
of course their concern never extends to trans men. very peculiar
You say pseudo-educated, but there are some academic disciplines in the UK which seem to be filled with "gender critical" researchers for some reason. I have no idea why it's happened but I'd almost suggest that we're the international hub for anti-trans academics.
i say pseudo because its all entirely post-constructed and nonsense even on its own terms - but yes there is an academic element because eg germaine greer had a much longer shelf life here than in other countries...
To mix things up and be mad about something else for a moment, the headline of The Times today is someone calling for an end to the trans "experiment", expressing concerns for children in the NHS being allowed to undergo surgery without any evidence of long term effects.
Applying arguments about vaping to gender identity. I'm kind of impressed at how annoyed I am at it.
An anti-trans story in the UK press? Must be a day ending in Y.
this stuff crosses borders - had a swedish friend recently asking about it because the uk stories were escaping there and she didnt really know what to say to her friends about it. lots of people with ugly feelings looking for something, anything, to legitimise them and the uk seems to be ground zero for a certain kind of middle aged middle class pseudo-educated transphobia of a particularly stupid kind
of course their concern never extends to trans men. very peculiar
Usual bullshit about trans women being traitors to masculinity. Same reason homophobes have always been far more focused on gay men than lesbians.
According to the Guardian live feed, Hard Brexiter Mark Francois wants another kinda-sorta confidence vote; Finkelstein, another Tory, gave this response that, in spite of my obvious difference in political outlook, I have to say I like a lot for its honesty:
Breathtaking stupidity indeed!
Thirith on
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
Found an image of it, in case I've misinterpreted it. Turns out the call is from five doctors resigning from the clinic in question
I think the actual headline manages to be worse than your paraphrase.
Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
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surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
after looking at the actual article its hysterically dishonest - "youngest was 3" - but juxtaposed next to the section where it discusses, er, puberty blockers and "irreversible hormones" only given to those starting puberty/age 16...
its the same nonsense as always - the legitimate critique that there is a lot of diagnostic uncertainty and care required gets rolled up into the idea that therefore the whole thing is nonsense, with the age of children who are being allowed to socially transition or get consultations being mixed up with the age at which people can start actual treatment that has long-term consequences. the saddest thing is that the average wait time for seeing a specialist about trans issues in the uk is over a year or something, so the idea children are just being dropped in to this on an afternoons whim is absurd
More seriously, though, I hope that idiots like Francois have their... shall we call them contradictions or sheer hypocrisy?... pointed out in public again and again and again.
Thirith on
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
Found an image of it, in case I've misinterpreted it. Turns out the call is from five doctors resigning from the clinic in question
I think the actual headline manages to be worse than your paraphrase.
Specifically the quotation marks around “experiment on children” is providing emphasis on that phrase. It’s trying to invoke images of kids being forcibly experimented on as in any distopian novel of your choice. It’s fucking horrible.
Another great reply to Mark Francois' bullshittery:
I love the pearl-clutching of "the prime minister was prepared to sit down and negotiate with a Marxist". You can practically hear the gasps!
Not to mention the interesting reliance on new information having come to light as justification for calling the result of a previous vote into question...
Okay, I have a stupid question as a non-Brit type:
What would happen if the UK leaving the EU just resulted in defaulting to whatever UK-European relations existed (pertaining to trade, immigration, and whatnot) prior to the formation of the EU?
Is it that the pre-EU status quo sucked, or is it that the existence of the EU makes the dynamics so different that the suggestion doesn't even make sense? I know that this pre-dates the Good Friday agreement, so relations pertaining to Ireland would still be an issue, but I'm trying to better understand the idea that the whole notion of Brexit is fundamentally a nightmare.
One problem is a lot of their trading partners from pre-eu now ARE the EU. So instead of being able to play one country off another to get good deals you are now dealing with one big power block so their ability to get treaties any near as favorable as the ones they had pre eu is highly suspect. The other problem is basically the EU helped end the troubles because it allowed NI and ireland to coexist without needing any kind of border point for friction to build up and blow up. Any kind of non deal brexit means we will find out soon enough if there has been enough time to stop the troubles from flaring back up or not. Given the history between the countries I am going to guess that the answer is no. Once a border goes up and the friction starts again it's only a matter of time before it explodes again.
Iirc one problem is that the EU has an ongoing policy not to give favorable trade deals to countries with ongoing treaty disputes with EU natioms and ROI is an EU nation so...
Boris Johnson breached Commons rules by not declaring a financial interest in time, a committee of MPs has found.
The Committee on Standards said the former foreign secretary failed to register a share of a Somerset property within 28 days of acquiring it.
The committee accepted he had not intended to conceal his interest and had apologised.
But it added that the Conservative MP had shown an "an over-casual attitude" to parliamentary rules.
In its latest report, the committee said the failure to declare the property interest in time revealed a "pattern of behaviour" regarding respect for rules on declarations.
It added that Mr Johnson had given an assurance as part of a previous investigation that his interests declaration was up to date, but this "proved not to be the case".
It recommended Mr Johnson, MP for Uxbridge and South Ruislip, receives a briefing from the Registrar of Members' Financial Interests on his obligations.
It added a further breach might lead to a "more serious sanction".
I'm sure if he does this again, he'll have to face some consequences that may be somewhat severe possibly.
Iirc one problem is that the EU has an ongoing policy not to give favorable trade deals to countries with ongoing treaty disputes with EU natioms and ROI is an EU nation so...
This also has implications for Gibraltar.
Spain agreed not to pursue its territorial claim as part of its accession negotiations, but that goes out the window if the UK is no longer a member state.
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ceresWhen the last moon is cast over the last star of morningAnd the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderatormod
Boris Johnson breached Commons rules by not declaring a financial interest in time, a committee of MPs has found.
The Committee on Standards said the former foreign secretary failed to register a share of a Somerset property within 28 days of acquiring it.
The committee accepted he had not intended to conceal his interest and had apologised.
But it added that the Conservative MP had shown an "an over-casual attitude" to parliamentary rules.
In its latest report, the committee said the failure to declare the property interest in time revealed a "pattern of behaviour" regarding respect for rules on declarations.
It added that Mr Johnson had given an assurance as part of a previous investigation that his interests declaration was up to date, but this "proved not to be the case".
It recommended Mr Johnson, MP for Uxbridge and South Ruislip, receives a briefing from the Registrar of Members' Financial Interests on his obligations.
It added a further breach might lead to a "more serious sanction".
I'm sure if he does this again, he'll have to face some consequences that may be somewhat severe possibly.
They apologized? Yeesh.
And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
Boris Johnson breached Commons rules by not declaring a financial interest in time, a committee of MPs has found.
The Committee on Standards said the former foreign secretary failed to register a share of a Somerset property within 28 days of acquiring it.
The committee accepted he had not intended to conceal his interest and had apologised.
But it added that the Conservative MP had shown an "an over-casual attitude" to parliamentary rules.
In its latest report, the committee said the failure to declare the property interest in time revealed a "pattern of behaviour" regarding respect for rules on declarations.
It added that Mr Johnson had given an assurance as part of a previous investigation that his interests declaration was up to date, but this "proved not to be the case".
It recommended Mr Johnson, MP for Uxbridge and South Ruislip, receives a briefing from the Registrar of Members' Financial Interests on his obligations.
It added a further breach might lead to a "more serious sanction".
I'm sure if he does this again, he'll have to face some consequences that may be somewhat severe possibly.
Iirc one problem is that the EU has an ongoing policy not to give favorable trade deals to countries with ongoing treaty disputes with EU natioms and ROI is an EU nation so...
This also has implications for Gibraltar.
Spain agreed not to pursue its territorial claim as part of its accession negotiations, but that goes out the window if the UK is no longer a member state.
If I were Spain I'd set aside a small diplomatic corp that, should No Deal comes, launches a charm offensive to persuade Gibraltar to join them. Figure it has a decent chance of success.
There's too much money in its current status for Gibraltar
But doesn't a lot of that money come from EU stuff?
Or maybe I've gotten it entirely wrong. But I do know that Gibraltar was the single highest "Remain" vote by percentage everywhere, so it's not like you wouldn't have one enticing offer.
It is an offshore financial centre and tax haven, much of this money flows from Russia
Brexit would be disruptive since it would become harder for EU companies to take advantage but it's probably not worth endangering Gibraltar's entire status
after looking at the actual article its hysterically dishonest - "youngest was 3" - but juxtaposed next to the section where it discusses, er, puberty blockers and "irreversible hormones" only given to those starting puberty/age 16...
its the same nonsense as always - the legitimate critique that there is a lot of diagnostic uncertainty and care required gets rolled up into the idea that therefore the whole thing is nonsense, with the age of children who are being allowed to socially transition or get consultations being mixed up with the age at which people can start actual treatment that has long-term consequences. the saddest thing is that the average wait time for seeing a specialist about trans issues in the uk is over a year or something, so the idea children are just being dropped in to this on an afternoons whim is absurd
A year is lowballing it. I know more than one person who is on pretty much an indefinate waiting list to get the initial consultation with the gender clinic. And thats just the first consultation, the actual road to beginning HRT is a year or more boyond that. Its not uncommon to be in this waiting list purgatory for two years and still not have a date to see an actual doctor. The idea that tbese things are being handed out like candy with no oversight is utter bullshit.
For me the most telling thing is the number of clinicians willing to stick their oar in about something that is decidedly outside their specialism, which the profession as a whole is usually pretty disciplined about.
I do think there's an issue with the approach the NHS takes, in that the whole country is basically totally dependent on one London based clinic for access to many of these services. There is a semi legitimate argument that this is not conducive to the development of best practice, but that's an argument for wider access and better distribution of services, so it's concerning to see it deployed as an argument to stop providing or limit the scope of said services
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surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
wonderful line from the 2017 election book from a frustrated labour adviser on corbyns failure to hold the agreed line about the paris shootings:
He couldn't even hold the line for 10 minutes... McDonnell, he can lie for the party for weeks on end, no problem, but Jeremy doesn't have the discipline
wonderful line from the 2017 election book from a frustrated labour adviser on corbyns failure to hold the agreed line about the paris shootings:
He couldn't even hold the line for 10 minutes... McDonnell, he can lie for the party for weeks on end, no problem, but Jeremy doesn't have the discipline
...what the hell did he say? I can't remember (or keep up, it feels like) any more...
ceresWhen the last moon is cast over the last star of morningAnd the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderatormod
Boris Johnson breached Commons rules by not declaring a financial interest in time, a committee of MPs has found.
The Committee on Standards said the former foreign secretary failed to register a share of a Somerset property within 28 days of acquiring it.
The committee accepted he had not intended to conceal his interest and had apologised.
But it added that the Conservative MP had shown an "an over-casual attitude" to parliamentary rules.
In its latest report, the committee said the failure to declare the property interest in time revealed a "pattern of behaviour" regarding respect for rules on declarations.
It added that Mr Johnson had given an assurance as part of a previous investigation that his interests declaration was up to date, but this "proved not to be the case".
It recommended Mr Johnson, MP for Uxbridge and South Ruislip, receives a briefing from the Registrar of Members' Financial Interests on his obligations.
It added a further breach might lead to a "more serious sanction".
I'm sure if he does this again, he'll have to face some consequences that may be somewhat severe possibly.
They apologized? Yeesh.
No, he apologised. So that's all right.
Missed a pretty important word in that sentence. Yeesh on me.
And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
I don't think anything has worse optics for the Conservatives and their failure in Government in the eyes of their supporters if this really is them conceding they will have to contest the European elections.
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surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
suggests the report commission informally were telling gov that any extension of any duration would require elections was correct
The impression I've got is that Corbyn has his own opinion, on everything, and eff what the rest of the party says/wants/thinks.
On a related note, wonk Twitter has some notes from the negotiations. Sounds like the Labour team are willing to lose FoM and take a second ref off the table.
(Blah blah single market alignment unicorn blah)
How are we four days from catastrophe and nobody seems to know what Labour is up to, and if they do, they don’t like it.
They're probably just notes - setting out the various scenarios and how likely it would be to get the votes or to have the EU agree. These are six hour meetings so I can easily imagine all manner of situations getting discussed.
They've confirmed publicly this evening that a lock to prevent a successor from changing the rules and a confirmatory referendum are required regardless of what is agreed.
It is an offshore financial centre and tax haven, much of this money flows from Russia
Brexit would be disruptive since it would become harder for EU companies to take advantage but it's probably not worth endangering Gibraltar's entire status
Which is kind of the precise reason Spain has been pissed off about Gibraltar for ages. It's where all the Spanish companies go in order to evade taxes, and as one can imagine successive Spanish governments have gotten kind of miffed about that.
To mix things up and be mad about something else for a moment, the headline of The Times today is someone calling for an end to the trans "experiment", expressing concerns for children in the NHS being allowed to undergo surgery without any evidence of long term effects.
Applying arguments about vaping to gender identity. I'm kind of impressed at how annoyed I am at it.
There’s fucking scads of evidence of long term effects! Fucking 80-100 years of evidence. If they’re talking about specific procedures related to SRS rather than the concept generally that’s the case for all procedures and is completely unfounded.
Yvette Cooper's bill is now law! So EU elections are pretty much locked in, unless the Government can pass an amendment tomorrow to bring the Brexit delay they ask for forwards (to End of May...rather than June).
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You say pseudo-educated, but there are some academic disciplines in the UK which seem to be filled with "gender critical" researchers for some reason. I have no idea why it's happened but I'd almost suggest that we're the international hub for anti-trans academics.
i say pseudo because its all entirely post-constructed and nonsense even on its own terms - but yes there is an academic element because eg germaine greer had a much longer shelf life here than in other countries...
Usual bullshit about trans women being traitors to masculinity. Same reason homophobes have always been far more focused on gay men than lesbians.
Breathtaking stupidity indeed!
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
I made a game, it has penguins in it. It's pay what you like on Gumroad.
Currently Ebaying Nothing at all but I might do in the future.
I think the actual headline manages to be worse than your paraphrase.
its the same nonsense as always - the legitimate critique that there is a lot of diagnostic uncertainty and care required gets rolled up into the idea that therefore the whole thing is nonsense, with the age of children who are being allowed to socially transition or get consultations being mixed up with the age at which people can start actual treatment that has long-term consequences. the saddest thing is that the average wait time for seeing a specialist about trans issues in the uk is over a year or something, so the idea children are just being dropped in to this on an afternoons whim is absurd
I love the pearl-clutching of "the prime minister was prepared to sit down and negotiate with a Marxist". You can practically hear the gasps!
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
The floor a clatter of popped monocles
More seriously, though, I hope that idiots like Francois have their... shall we call them contradictions or sheer hypocrisy?... pointed out in public again and again and again.
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
Specifically the quotation marks around “experiment on children” is providing emphasis on that phrase. It’s trying to invoke images of kids being forcibly experimented on as in any distopian novel of your choice. It’s fucking horrible.
Not to mention the interesting reliance on new information having come to light as justification for calling the result of a previous vote into question...
One problem is a lot of their trading partners from pre-eu now ARE the EU. So instead of being able to play one country off another to get good deals you are now dealing with one big power block so their ability to get treaties any near as favorable as the ones they had pre eu is highly suspect. The other problem is basically the EU helped end the troubles because it allowed NI and ireland to coexist without needing any kind of border point for friction to build up and blow up. Any kind of non deal brexit means we will find out soon enough if there has been enough time to stop the troubles from flaring back up or not. Given the history between the countries I am going to guess that the answer is no. Once a border goes up and the friction starts again it's only a matter of time before it explodes again.
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This also has implications for Gibraltar.
Spain agreed not to pursue its territorial claim as part of its accession negotiations, but that goes out the window if the UK is no longer a member state.
They apologized? Yeesh.
No, he apologised. So that's all right.
If I were Spain I'd set aside a small diplomatic corp that, should No Deal comes, launches a charm offensive to persuade Gibraltar to join them. Figure it has a decent chance of success.
But doesn't a lot of that money come from EU stuff?
Or maybe I've gotten it entirely wrong. But I do know that Gibraltar was the single highest "Remain" vote by percentage everywhere, so it's not like you wouldn't have one enticing offer.
Brexit would be disruptive since it would become harder for EU companies to take advantage but it's probably not worth endangering Gibraltar's entire status
A year is lowballing it. I know more than one person who is on pretty much an indefinate waiting list to get the initial consultation with the gender clinic. And thats just the first consultation, the actual road to beginning HRT is a year or more boyond that. Its not uncommon to be in this waiting list purgatory for two years and still not have a date to see an actual doctor. The idea that tbese things are being handed out like candy with no oversight is utter bullshit.
For me the most telling thing is the number of clinicians willing to stick their oar in about something that is decidedly outside their specialism, which the profession as a whole is usually pretty disciplined about.
I do think there's an issue with the approach the NHS takes, in that the whole country is basically totally dependent on one London based clinic for access to many of these services. There is a semi legitimate argument that this is not conducive to the development of best practice, but that's an argument for wider access and better distribution of services, so it's concerning to see it deployed as an argument to stop providing or limit the scope of said services
...what the hell did he say? I can't remember (or keep up, it feels like) any more...
Steam | XBL
That would be an accurate impression.
Steam | XBL
Missed a pretty important word in that sentence. Yeesh on me.
I don't think anything has worse optics for the Conservatives and their failure in Government in the eyes of their supporters if this really is them conceding they will have to contest the European elections.
Also feels like a concrete intent to avoid No-Dealing on Friday. Doesn't mean we won't, but still.
On a related note, wonk Twitter has some notes from the negotiations. Sounds like the Labour team are willing to lose FoM and take a second ref off the table.
(Blah blah single market alignment unicorn blah)
How are we four days from catastrophe and nobody seems to know what Labour is up to, and if they do, they don’t like it.
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They've confirmed publicly this evening that a lock to prevent a successor from changing the rules and a confirmatory referendum are required regardless of what is agreed.
Which is kind of the precise reason Spain has been pissed off about Gibraltar for ages. It's where all the Spanish companies go in order to evade taxes, and as one can imagine successive Spanish governments have gotten kind of miffed about that.
There’s fucking scads of evidence of long term effects! Fucking 80-100 years of evidence. If they’re talking about specific procedures related to SRS rather than the concept generally that’s the case for all procedures and is completely unfounded.