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[US Foreign Policy] A Generation of War

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    [Expletive deleted][Expletive deleted] The mediocre doctor NorwayRegistered User regular
    Who would you even buy it from and what about the people there now? Do they get the US territory treatment?

    This is assuming it’s at all possible of course.

    Greenland is 88 percent Inuit. I'm sure they'd be just thrilled to leave the protection of the EU and place themselves under the tender mercies of the United States.

    Greenland has never been part of the EU, and left the EEC in 1985. (Denmark is a full member of the EU, but Danish territories Greenland and the Faroe Islands are not.)
    Denmark has a great economy and content population. The only reason they'd sell a territory is at gunpoint. It'd be very funny for Trump to declare war on the one of the most peaceful countries in Europe.

    This is true. But the Greenland question is actually quite complicated. Greenland has sovereignty over its own internal policies, but Danmark handles foreign affairs.

    Denmark also subsidises Greenland by 3.4 billion DKK (500 million USD) per year, in addition to sending doctors and other high-skilled personnel. Many Greenlanders want full independence, but don't want to give up the benefits. Many Danes are unhappy with paying the benefits (racism plays a part, unfortunately). It's complicated.

    I don't think Denmark want to sell it, or Greenland wants to be bought. (It can legally only happen with the consent of both Denmark and the locals.) But Trump should also be aware that it will absolutely be a net negative in the budgets; the locals will never vote to join without codifying some sort of annual payment, and Greenland (currently; we'll see when it has melted) doesn't produce anything of great value. (And, of course, we all know a promise is totally worth the paper Trump writes it on.)

    Of course, Trump can try to take it from force from fellow NATO member Denmark. That would certainly make Trump's boss happy.

    Sic transit gloria mundi.
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    MillMill Registered User regular
    Not to mentioned, if Greenland did sign off, I seriously doubt they'd settle for being a US territory. Giving the fucking that PR got under Trump's shitty administration. If I were a government that got newly acquired to be part of the US, I'd strongly insist on having a quick path to statehood that the next US Congress can't torpedo (so probably via the treaty that leads to the purchase). I'm not familiar enough with Greenland's political landscape to a clear call on how that would impact things in the US, but I'm getting the impression that it wouldn't be GOP friendly; especially, with the GOP being the racist white asshole party.

    Though this is Trump we're talking about and he doesn't get anything. Greenland seems to wanted greater distance from Denmark, so I'd wager any deal by the US to purchase them is already dead on arrival; especially, if it's the likes of Trump. Dude probably doesn't get that he won't be able to do as he pleases there. That it won't be his property, nor that he'll be allowed to seize all the known good land and sell it off.

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    IncenjucarIncenjucar VChatter Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    This just sounds like another brain fart distraction from all the war crimes.

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    cckerberoscckerberos Registered User regular
    Mill wrote: »
    Not to mentioned, if Greenland did sign off, I seriously doubt they'd settle for being a US territory. Giving the fucking that PR got under Trump's shitty administration. If I were a government that got newly acquired to be part of the US, I'd strongly insist on having a quick path to statehood that the next US Congress can't torpedo (so probably via the treaty that leads to the purchase). I'm not familiar enough with Greenland's political landscape to a clear call on how that would impact things in the US, but I'm getting the impression that it wouldn't be GOP friendly; especially, with the GOP being the racist white asshole party.

    Greenland has a population of 56k. Even if they somehow agreed to join the US, there's no way they become a state.

    cckerberos.png
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    ScooterScooter Registered User regular
    Gaddez wrote: »
    Wouldn't purchasing greenland increase the debt like... exponentially?

    Greenland is not worth 400 trillion or something.

    Maybe not, but if you want to try and buy territory from another nation you're probably gonna be paying way over whatever the 'market value' is.

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    EncEnc A Fool with Compassion Pronouns: He, Him, HisRegistered User regular
    Almost certainly. Greenland will actually be green, at the rate we're going... about the same time all the southern states catch fire and the last little bit of the Florida sandbar slips beneath the waves.

    Florida isn't going to be completely underwater in even the more pessimistic sea level rises. Only in the apocalyptic ones in which everyone is dead anyhow. Much of the state is over 150 to 200ft above sea level.

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    PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    Enc wrote: »
    Almost certainly. Greenland will actually be green, at the rate we're going... about the same time all the southern states catch fire and the last little bit of the Florida sandbar slips beneath the waves.

    Florida isn't going to be completely underwater in even the more pessimistic sea level rises. Only in the apocalyptic ones in which everyone is dead anyhow. Much of the state is over 150 to 200ft above sea level.

    Yeah. Florida’s real problem is that, as sea level rises, the saltwater intrusion into the state’s aquifers means that drinking water supplies will collapse.

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    Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    edited August 2019
    Yeah to bury Florida completely you would need to melt essentially all the ice on earth. Maybe dam Gibraltar too (funny thing if you dam the straights you could raise sea levels by 40 feet or so in a relatively short period of time, so if anyone ever wants to be a bond villian that might be a plan for you).

    Jealous Deva on
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    jmcdonaldjmcdonald I voted, did you? DC(ish)Registered User regular
    cckerberos wrote: »
    Mill wrote: »
    Not to mentioned, if Greenland did sign off, I seriously doubt they'd settle for being a US territory. Giving the fucking that PR got under Trump's shitty administration. If I were a government that got newly acquired to be part of the US, I'd strongly insist on having a quick path to statehood that the next US Congress can't torpedo (so probably via the treaty that leads to the purchase). I'm not familiar enough with Greenland's political landscape to a clear call on how that would impact things in the US, but I'm getting the impression that it wouldn't be GOP friendly; especially, with the GOP being the racist white asshole party.

    Greenland has a population of 56k. Even if they somehow agreed to join the US, there's no way they become a state.

    Vermont only has 650k.

    I don’t think it’s that disqualifying.

    This is all moot tho. We’re not buying Greenland.

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    HevachHevach Registered User regular
    edited August 2019
    Scooter wrote: »
    Gaddez wrote: »
    Wouldn't purchasing greenland increase the debt like... exponentially?

    Greenland is not worth 400 trillion or something.

    Maybe not, but if you want to try and buy territory from another nation you're probably gonna be paying way over whatever the 'market value' is.

    Not really. Sovereign territory sales don't work like private real estate sales. Neither government has the realistic ability to see the real estate or resource exploitation revenue directly. The value of the territory to a government is much more indirect. Economic value can be measured in tax revenue vs. burden rather than land value. Defense value is far more difficult to quantify but in this case could be in part measured by a net outflow of money now remaining inside the US market.

    The US has made three major sovereign territory purchases. At the time they happened, if the previous owners had zoned them up and sold them on the private market, they would have been worth many times what they were sold for. Doing that would have taken a very long time (it's nowhere near done even today and US settlement of new territory was much more aggressive than French or Russian), and wasn't really how things worked anyway.

    For example: The Louisiana Purchase was for under 4 cents an acre. Land value at the time ran 12.5 cents to $1.25 an acre depending on use.

    Hevach on
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    cckerberoscckerberos Registered User regular
    jmcdonald wrote: »
    cckerberos wrote: »
    Mill wrote: »
    Not to mentioned, if Greenland did sign off, I seriously doubt they'd settle for being a US territory. Giving the fucking that PR got under Trump's shitty administration. If I were a government that got newly acquired to be part of the US, I'd strongly insist on having a quick path to statehood that the next US Congress can't torpedo (so probably via the treaty that leads to the purchase). I'm not familiar enough with Greenland's political landscape to a clear call on how that would impact things in the US, but I'm getting the impression that it wouldn't be GOP friendly; especially, with the GOP being the racist white asshole party.

    Greenland has a population of 56k. Even if they somehow agreed to join the US, there's no way they become a state.

    Vermont only has 650k.

    I don’t think it’s that disqualifying.

    This is all moot tho. We’re not buying Greenland.

    Did you misread what I wrote as 560k?

    cckerberos.png
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    jmcdonaldjmcdonald I voted, did you? DC(ish)Registered User regular
    cckerberos wrote: »
    jmcdonald wrote: »
    cckerberos wrote: »
    Mill wrote: »
    Not to mentioned, if Greenland did sign off, I seriously doubt they'd settle for being a US territory. Giving the fucking that PR got under Trump's shitty administration. If I were a government that got newly acquired to be part of the US, I'd strongly insist on having a quick path to statehood that the next US Congress can't torpedo (so probably via the treaty that leads to the purchase). I'm not familiar enough with Greenland's political landscape to a clear call on how that would impact things in the US, but I'm getting the impression that it wouldn't be GOP friendly; especially, with the GOP being the racist white asshole party.

    Greenland has a population of 56k. Even if they somehow agreed to join the US, there's no way they become a state.

    Vermont only has 650k.

    I don’t think it’s that disqualifying.

    This is all moot tho. We’re not buying Greenland.

    Did you misread what I wrote as 560k?

    No. I don’t think it really matters. What is the cutoff population to make a state?

    There isn’t one. It’s a politics thing.

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    CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    Vermont has less than a tenth of the population of California. Greenland has less than a tenth of the population of Vermont.

    So what’s the big deal?

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    RedTideRedTide Registered User regular
    Vermont has less than a tenth of the population of California. Greenland has less than a tenth of the population of Vermont.

    So what’s the big deal?

    Well it would set a new basement level for most fucked up over representation in Congress.

    RedTide#1907 on Battle.net
    Come Overwatch with meeeee
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    monikermoniker Registered User regular
    RedTide wrote: »
    Vermont has less than a tenth of the population of California. Greenland has less than a tenth of the population of Vermont.

    So what’s the big deal?

    Well it would set a new basement level for most fucked up over representation in Congress.

    My Alderman represents more people.

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    Fleur de AlysFleur de Alys Biohacker Registered User regular
    If it gets us 2 more Dems in the Senate and another electoral college vote, sure, I'll take it.

    It would make arguments for DC statehood easier to win too, I think.

    But it's fantasyland.

    Triptycho: A card-and-dice tabletop indie RPG currently in development and playtesting
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    GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    Hevach wrote: »
    Scooter wrote: »
    Gaddez wrote: »
    Wouldn't purchasing greenland increase the debt like... exponentially?

    Greenland is not worth 400 trillion or something.

    Maybe not, but if you want to try and buy territory from another nation you're probably gonna be paying way over whatever the 'market value' is.

    Not really. Sovereign territory sales don't work like private real estate sales. Neither government has the realistic ability to see the real estate or resource exploitation revenue directly. The value of the territory to a government is much more indirect. Economic value can be measured in tax revenue vs. burden rather than land value. Defense value is far more difficult to quantify but in this case could be in part measured by a net outflow of money now remaining inside the US market.

    The US has made three major sovereign territory purchases. At the time they happened, if the previous owners had zoned them up and sold them on the private market, they would have been worth many times what they were sold for. Doing that would have taken a very long time (it's nowhere near done even today and US settlement of new territory was much more aggressive than French or Russian), and wasn't really how things worked anyway.

    For example: The Louisiana Purchase was for under 4 cents an acre. Land value at the time ran 12.5 cents to $1.25 an acre depending on use.

    This also ignores the impetus for the sale of Alaska and louisiana: both countries were dealing with an ascendent britain and trying to limit the damage thus getting top dollar wasn't the goal.

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    CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    RedTide wrote: »
    Vermont has less than a tenth of the population of California. Greenland has less than a tenth of the population of Vermont.

    So what’s the big deal?

    Well it would set a new basement level for most fucked up over representation in Congress.

    Just imagine the new strategies that'd have to be used to pander to the 88% Inuit population. It'd make Republicans instantly Woke.

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    enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Denmark has no interest in selling it, so it's meaningless anyway.

    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
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    HobnailHobnail Registered User regular
    Buying Greenland and making it State would be quite the prank for y'all to play on Puerto Rico

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    nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    So Tlaib basically told trump and bibi to suck it

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    DoodmannDoodmann Registered User regular
    Greenland is also a location a lot of rich pricks like Trump and his pals are looking at for luxury doomsday bunkers and shit, so they can ride out the apocalypse they've wrought in style and comfort.

    I hate how prevalent this thinking it because they're all going to be long dead before it gets bad.

    Ultimate ladder pullers.

    Whippy wrote: »
    nope nope nope nope abort abort talk about anime
    I like to ART
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    BrainleechBrainleech 機知に富んだコメントはここにあります Registered User regular
    Scooter wrote: »
    Gaddez wrote: »
    Wouldn't purchasing greenland increase the debt like... exponentially?

    Greenland is not worth 400 trillion or something.

    Maybe not, but if you want to try and buy territory from another nation you're probably gonna be paying way over whatever the 'market value' is.

    Colonizing Mars and terraforming it probably far cheaper than buying Greenland

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    TastyfishTastyfish Registered User regular
    So Tlaib basically told trump and bibi to suck it


    "I can't do the thing so I don't want to do the thing" is not a win.

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    CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    Trump keeps on finding newer ways to make himself look like a complete monster.

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    XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
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    PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Fuck me standing, like I know the man scores more points with his base the bigger shit goblin he is, but god damn.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
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    nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    Tastyfish wrote: »
    So Tlaib basically told trump and bibi to suck it


    "I can't do the thing so I don't want to do the thing" is not a win.

    Bibi tried to save face by letting her visit her grandmother under a humanitarian guise. This is her rejecting that offer for the fraud it was

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    DiplominatorDiplominator Hardcore Porg Registered User regular
    If Washington state told me to stay out because I said mean things about Spokane, and then demurred "for my Grandmother's sake," I'm pretty sure my response would be that they can fuck off and I think my Grandmother would agree (although we might have a talk about profanity on Skype).

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    XantomasXantomas Registered User regular
    Couscous wrote: »
    Trump keeps on finding newer ways to make himself look like a complete monster.


    The version of this tweet that I saw (maybe original version?) had the word "grandmother" in quotes. Like he doesn't really think she's her grandmother. Because conspiracy, I'm sure

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    ElldrenElldren Is a woman dammit ceterum censeoRegistered User regular
    Xantomas wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    Trump keeps on finding newer ways to make himself look like a complete monster.


    The version of this tweet that I saw (maybe original version?) had the word "grandmother" in quotes. Like he doesn't really think she's her grandmother. Because conspiracy, I'm sure

    it's well established the man has no idea how punctuation works

    fuck gendered marketing
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    Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    This just sounds like another brain fart distraction from all the war crimes.

    It makes a certain amoint of political sense if youre an extremely stupid guy who spends a lot of time on real estate

    wq09t4opzrlc.jpg
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    Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    I’m confident this is 10% “take the natural resources” and 90% “Trump made the US the biggest country” (or at the least bigger than Canada)

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    CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    I’m confident this is 10% “take the natural resources” and 90% “Trump made the US the biggest country” (or at the least bigger than Canada)

    Just annex the south pole.

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    PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    I'm confident the greenland thing is 100% bullshit to distract from a teetering economy, victims of white supremacy being buried, and the admin using Israel against american congress people.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
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    XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
    Guarantee he'd turn around and sell it to russia at a loss

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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    I'm 100% certain it's just some random bullshit Trump said because he saw something about it mentioned on cable news.

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    AthenorAthenor Battle Hardened Optimist The Skies of HiigaraRegistered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    I'm 100% certain it's just some random bullshit Trump said because he saw something about it mentioned on cable news.

    Bonus points for him not knowing that Greenland is the icy one (for now) and Iceland is the green one.

    He/Him | "A boat is always safest in the harbor, but that’s not why we build boats." | "If you run, you gain one. If you move forward, you gain two." - Suletta Mercury, G-Witch
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    ViskodViskod Registered User regular
    Tastyfish wrote: »
    So Tlaib basically told trump and bibi to suck it


    "I can't do the thing so I don't want to do the thing" is not a win.

    Bibi tried to save face by letting her visit her grandmother under a humanitarian guise. This is her rejecting that offer for the fraud it was

    He didn’t try very hard because the actual reason she refused is because they wanted her to sign documents and be subject to unique preconditions to enter that no member of Congress has ever been subject to.

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    nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    Viskod wrote: »
    Tastyfish wrote: »
    So Tlaib basically told trump and bibi to suck it


    "I can't do the thing so I don't want to do the thing" is not a win.

    Bibi tried to save face by letting her visit her grandmother under a humanitarian guise. This is her rejecting that offer for the fraud it was

    He didn’t try very hard because the actual reason she refused is because they wanted her to sign documents and be subject to unique preconditions to enter that no member of Congress has ever been subject to.

    Yeah they pretty much wanted her in to sign hag order and unable to say or do anything political while there

This discussion has been closed.