SnicketysnickThe Greatest Hype Man inWesterosRegistered Userregular
I guess the Alpha process hasn't gone very well then...or at least resulted in unfortunate feedback. Something has gone completely sideways though, if the tale gets told it's sure to be interesting
iirc this is what happened with the FF7 Remake, it was farmed out to another studio and squeenix ended up canning them and taking the project back in-house.
This has been in my steam library since March 2019. Pretty sure by release (if that actually happens) that's gonna end up being some sort of pre-order record... >.>
HonkHonk is this poster.Registered User, __BANNED USERSregular
I’m like I trust Paradox to tough it out and do at minimum okay by a promise in the end. But that studio made the xbox 360 Blackwater game.
This might end up being a good thing. It’s not impossible. I don’t see anything in the studio’s history that indicates they were going to do a good job making this game.
I guess the Alpha process hasn't gone very well then...or at least resulted in unfortunate feedback. Something has gone completely sideways though, if the tale gets told it's sure to be interesting
iirc this is what happened with the FF7 Remake, it was farmed out to another studio and squeenix ended up canning them and taking the project back in-house.
They'll kick it around to a few different studios for a few years, never satisfied with results. Drop the project for a few years. Revive it. Have a lawsuit with the composer over music rights. And then ultimately sell the game and IP to Gearbox Studios.
I'd almost take this as a positive sign they want to get this right. Hardsuit doesn't have an extensive history of AAA games. Paradox could have just patched whatever they had up and released it for a quick buck. But instead it seems they didn't think the game play or something was where they wanted it to be and that Hardsuit wasn't equipped to deliver.
Very curious what company they are lining up for completion though. Yeah, Hardsuit was always somewhat concerning given lack of track record. But I don't envy the group being subbed in, even if they likely pursued it themselves.
"Hi. Please save our troubled cult classic game with high expectations that has been in development, but maybe hell, and had notable developers that are nearly synonymous with the product, and also it's never looked all that good gameplay wise but like, here, just please we promise we locked way the monkey's paw, just please help us get something out of this IP."
Very curious what company they are lining up for completion though. Yeah, Hardsuit was always somewhat concerning given lack of track record. But I don't envy the group being subbed in, even if they likely pursued it themselves.
"Hi. Please save our troubled cult classic game with high expectations that has been in development, but maybe hell, and had notable developers that are nearly synonymous with the product, and also it's never looked all that good gameplay wise but like, here, just please we promise we locked way the monkey's paw, just please help us get something out of this IP."
It probably won't help that the IP is connected to the Werewolf: The Apocalypse IP, which just had a fairly cruddy game get released with a wet fart.
Yeah, I desperately crave an investigative post-mortem into whatever the hell was going on at HardSuit Labs.
I do agree that this at least makes it seem like Paradox is trying to make this thing work. I wouldn't blame them for cancelling the game entirely at this point, so uhh props to them for trying I guess.
Very curious what company they are lining up for completion though. Yeah, Hardsuit was always somewhat concerning given lack of track record. But I don't envy the group being subbed in, even if they likely pursued it themselves.
"Hi. Please save our troubled cult classic game with high expectations that has been in development, but maybe hell, and had notable developers that are nearly synonymous with the product, and also it's never looked all that good gameplay wise but like, here, just please we promise we locked way the monkey's paw, just please help us get something out of this IP."
It probably won't help that the IP is connected to the Werewolf: The Apocalypse IP, which just had a fairly cruddy game get released with a wet fart.
Ehh they're proclaiming to be super different games. This game being developed had absolutely nothing to do with the strength of the Werewolf: The Apocalypse license. That other game is a trash tier brawler/stealth game with wooden everything; this game is shaping up to be a mess, but it has absolutely nothing to do with fan interest in Werewolf: The Apocalypse really.
Very curious what company they are lining up for completion though. Yeah, Hardsuit was always somewhat concerning given lack of track record. But I don't envy the group being subbed in, even if they likely pursued it themselves.
"Hi. Please save our troubled cult classic game with high expectations that has been in development, but maybe hell, and had notable developers that are nearly synonymous with the product, and also it's never looked all that good gameplay wise but like, here, just please we promise we locked way the monkey's paw, just please help us get something out of this IP."
It probably won't help that the IP is connected to the Werewolf: The Apocalypse IP, which just had a fairly cruddy game get released with a wet fart.
Yeah between that and seeing what happened to Cyberpunk when you release a buggy as hell game... I have a feeling the fact that the original is a janky mess as part of it's "charm" would not go over so well these days.
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JacobkoshGamble a stamp.I can show you how to be a real man!Moderatormod
my secret forlorn hope is that maybe Paradox are handing the project to Harebrained Schemes, since they are a) studio owned by Paradox b) in the Pacific Northwest c) who make pretty good games and RPGs in particular
and also d) are good with money and project management. they are the only game devs I follow closely who seem to scope their projects correctly, largely because they aren't afraid to say no to fans and cut good but extraneous ideas to deliver a core product that works
if Bloodlines 2 was a victim of epic mismanagement as seems kind of likely at this point, that seems like what you'd want
Very curious what company they are lining up for completion though. Yeah, Hardsuit was always somewhat concerning given lack of track record. But I don't envy the group being subbed in, even if they likely pursued it themselves.
"Hi. Please save our troubled cult classic game with high expectations that has been in development, but maybe hell, and had notable developers that are nearly synonymous with the product, and also it's never looked all that good gameplay wise but like, here, just please we promise we locked way the monkey's paw, just please help us get something out of this IP."
It probably won't help that the IP is connected to the Werewolf: The Apocalypse IP, which just had a fairly cruddy game get released with a wet fart.
Yeah between that and seeing what happened to Cyberpunk when you release a buggy as hell game... I have a feeling the fact that the original is a janky mess as part of it's "charm" would not go over so well these days.
There's nothing "these days" about it really. Bloodlines 1 became a cult classic because parts of it are amazing. But, the "janky mess" part of it....completely killed its original developers, Troika. It sold 5 copies and doomed them entirely. I'm pretty sure no one had any intentions of repeating that; it sure looks like fate is trying to make it happen though!
my secret forlorn hope is that maybe Paradox are handing the project to Harebrained Schemes, since they are a) studio owned by Paradox b) in the Pacific Northwest c) who make pretty good games and RPGs in particular
and also d) are good with money and project management. they are the only game devs I follow closely who seem to scope their projects correctly, largely because they aren't afraid to say no to fans and cut good but extraneous ideas to deliver a core product that works
if Bloodlines 2 was a victim of epic mismanagement as seems kind of likely at this point, that seems like what you'd want
Thanks for raising this as a possibility because now I'm going to be tremendously disappointed when it inevitably turns out that the game wasn't given to HBS.
Very curious what company they are lining up for completion though. Yeah, Hardsuit was always somewhat concerning given lack of track record. But I don't envy the group being subbed in, even if they likely pursued it themselves.
"Hi. Please save our troubled cult classic game with high expectations that has been in development, but maybe hell, and had notable developers that are nearly synonymous with the product, and also it's never looked all that good gameplay wise but like, here, just please we promise we locked way the monkey's paw, just please help us get something out of this IP."
It probably won't help that the IP is connected to the Werewolf: The Apocalypse IP, which just had a fairly cruddy game get released with a wet fart.
To be fair, there's been several smaller releases that were well-received and well-written, but it seems like WoD is better suited to VNs than AAA-ish RPGs.
Also, hopefully HBS is busy with a follow up to Battletech?
They're not
Development ended on Battletech last year (maybe 2019? Time is meaningless) and they had a big wrap-up Q&A livestream and basically said "we can't say what we're doing next, but we are done with Battletech stuff until further notice." Idk if the game underperformed (which seems weird but who knows) or if the endless legal battles with Harmony Gold made it unprofitable to continue or if they just want to move on and do new things or what. But, regardless, they still haven't announced what the new gig is.
I mean this is just me woolgathering, I don't seriously think that HBS is working on VtM 2 (although it would be rad).
But I will say that unless Paradox either spin up a new studio themselves, or wait till an existing studio has a clear slate, whoever they approach to do the game will be busy on something, so that doesn't preclude anything. The new developers will just be in hiring mode and shifting resources for a while.
my secret forlorn hope is that maybe Paradox are handing the project to Harebrained Schemes, since they are a) studio owned by Paradox b) in the Pacific Northwest c) who make pretty good games and RPGs in particular
and also d) are good with money and project management. they are the only game devs I follow closely who seem to scope their projects correctly, largely because they aren't afraid to say no to fans and cut good but extraneous ideas to deliver a core product that works
if Bloodlines 2 was a victim of epic mismanagement as seems kind of likely at this point, that seems like what you'd want
If Harebrained came out with a Vampire game in the style of Shadowrun: Dragonfall or Hong Kong, I'd be cool with it. Probably not what people would be hoping for when they hear "Bloodlines 2", so that's probably not what this hypothetical game should be called, but, y'know, it'd still be neat.
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surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
vtmb had mechanics so bad that honestly thats not too much of a worry for me tho lol
this could actually be a good thing - one of those "get rid of the old ideas and give a fresh team the chance to construct something more limited but coherent out of the pieces"
but it really depends on how much paradox are willing to sink into it in terms of resources, i suppose
also i would imagine whoever they give it to understand the significance of the original game, and might possibly re-open communications with mitsoda et al depending on why they departed
Also, hopefully HBS is busy with a follow up to Battletech?
They're not
Development ended on Battletech last year (maybe 2019? Time is meaningless) and they had a big wrap-up Q&A livestream and basically said "we can't say what we're doing next, but we are done with Battletech stuff until further notice." Idk if the game underperformed (which seems weird but who knows) or if the endless legal battles with Harmony Gold made it unprofitable to continue or if they just want to move on and do new things or what. But, regardless, they still haven't announced what the new gig is.
I mean this is just me woolgathering, I don't seriously think that HBS is working on VtM 2 (although it would be rad).
But I will say that unless Paradox either spin up a new studio themselves, or wait till an existing studio has a clear slate, whoever they approach to do the game will be busy on something, so that doesn't preclude anything. The new developers will just be in hiring mode and shifting resources for a while.
Also, hopefully HBS is busy with a follow up to Battletech?
They're not
Development ended on Battletech last year (maybe 2019? Time is meaningless) and they had a big wrap-up Q&A livestream and basically said "we can't say what we're doing next, but we are done with Battletech stuff until further notice." Idk if the game underperformed (which seems weird but who knows) or if the endless legal battles with Harmony Gold made it unprofitable to continue or if they just want to move on and do new things or what. But, regardless, they still haven't announced what the new gig is.
I mean this is just me woolgathering, I don't seriously think that HBS is working on VtM 2 (although it would be rad).
But I will say that unless Paradox either spin up a new studio themselves, or wait till an existing studio has a clear slate, whoever they approach to do the game will be busy on something, so that doesn't preclude anything. The new developers will just be in hiring mode and shifting resources for a while.
The Harmony Gold lawsuit was settled in 2018?
sure, but it still happened, and it still cost the studio money, and may have contributed to the decision to sell HBS to paradox (or may not have, since jordan weisman is a serial entrepreneur)
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KoopahTroopahThe koopas, the troopas.Philadelphia, PARegistered Userregular
I submitted my preorder cancel to Steam this morning, we'll see if they honor it since it's almost two years after I preordered.
I'll continue to follow the development just because it's so fascinating of a timeline, but yeah. All hope has sailed on this one for me. I'll probably purchase if it's ever released, but this has been some batshit developments.
As much as I credit HG for introducing me to anime, Robotech, mecha crap in general, and my interest in tech - I harbor nothing but contempt for them anymore.
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cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
They're not. Put very simply, the designs of certain Battletech 'mechs may have been based on Macross/Robotech designs which are probably owned by Harmony Gold. So Harmony Gold sued.
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cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
They're not. Put very simply, the designs of certain Battletech 'mechs may have been based on Macross/Robotech designs which are probably owned by Harmony Gold. So Harmony Gold sued.
Sheesh. Super Robot Wars being localized would have given them a coronary.
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JacobkoshGamble a stamp.I can show you how to be a real man!Moderatormod
(super short version, in spoilers cuz it's hells of off topic):
Back in the 80s, when Battletech was being developed, FASA licensed some of their original slate of mech designs (the Warhammer, the Marauder, the Rifleman, others) from various anime (Macross, Crusher Joe, and a third) through an Asian licensing conglomerate. A third party, not the original anime studios.
Harmony Gold, of course, had licensed some of the actual anime shows, particularly Macross, to produce Robotech.
Nothing happened with this for years and years but in the 90s, Harmony Gold kind of randomly decided to sue over this, claiming that they had exclusive rights to the visual representation of those designs in the NA market. FASA, looking at the documents, realized the licensing firm might not have actually have had the right to license those designs so settled or cut a deal out of court and agreed to no longer use those designs in visual media. Those mechs, many of which were iconic in the various Battletech books and art, became "unseen." They could be mentioned and talked about, their game stats were unchanged, but they could no longer depict them visually.
In the 2010s, Catalyst Game Labs, the part owners of the Battletech property and publishers of the TTRPG/wargame material, announced that they were moving forward with a retcon, a visual redesign of all the Unseen mechs that would take them out of legally dicey waters.
HBS announced when the Battletech game was Kickstarted that the game would be incorporating those redesigns. However, HG decided to sue anyway, and included Catalyst and also Piranha Games (the MWO dudes) in the mix. But Harmony Gold's own licensing status turns out to have been way shakier than previously thought (in the interim they'd fought some legal battles against the actual anime studios, IIRC to try and prevent the unedited Macross and Genesis Climber from being distributed in NA) and the court settled the issue with prejudice against the plaintiff, so they can't raise the issue in court anymore.
I guess the Alpha process hasn't gone very well then...or at least resulted in unfortunate feedback. Something has gone completely sideways though, if the tale gets told it's sure to be interesting
iirc this is what happened with the FF7 Remake, it was farmed out to another studio and squeenix ended up canning them and taking the project back in-house.
Metroid Prime 4, as well. Started development at one studio til Nintendo took it away from them and gave it to Retro.
Supposedly.
It remains to be seen that it's an actual in-development project.
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Mass staking incident, followed by accidental removal of roof while the surviving developers were sleeping the day away.
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iirc this is what happened with the FF7 Remake, it was farmed out to another studio and squeenix ended up canning them and taking the project back in-house.
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I hate that this is an evergreen post
So, pretty on-brand for a vampire story?
Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
Wilds of Aladrion: [https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/43159014/#Comment_43159014]Ellandryn[/url]
This might end up being a good thing. It’s not impossible. I don’t see anything in the studio’s history that indicates they were going to do a good job making this game.
Same thing with Metroid Prime 4. It's certainly not a common thing, but it happens.
I suspect it's not nearly as late in the process as it was supposed to be, and that's why this is happening.
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"Hi. Please save our troubled cult classic game with high expectations that has been in development, but maybe hell, and had notable developers that are nearly synonymous with the product, and also it's never looked all that good gameplay wise but like, here, just please we promise we locked way the monkey's paw, just please help us get something out of this IP."
It probably won't help that the IP is connected to the Werewolf: The Apocalypse IP, which just had a fairly cruddy game get released with a wet fart.
I do agree that this at least makes it seem like Paradox is trying to make this thing work. I wouldn't blame them for cancelling the game entirely at this point, so uhh props to them for trying I guess.
So much for 90% complete I guess.
Ehh they're proclaiming to be super different games. This game being developed had absolutely nothing to do with the strength of the Werewolf: The Apocalypse license. That other game is a trash tier brawler/stealth game with wooden everything; this game is shaping up to be a mess, but it has absolutely nothing to do with fan interest in Werewolf: The Apocalypse really.
Yeah between that and seeing what happened to Cyberpunk when you release a buggy as hell game... I have a feeling the fact that the original is a janky mess as part of it's "charm" would not go over so well these days.
and also d) are good with money and project management. they are the only game devs I follow closely who seem to scope their projects correctly, largely because they aren't afraid to say no to fans and cut good but extraneous ideas to deliver a core product that works
if Bloodlines 2 was a victim of epic mismanagement as seems kind of likely at this point, that seems like what you'd want
Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
Wilds of Aladrion: [https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/43159014/#Comment_43159014]Ellandryn[/url]
There's nothing "these days" about it really. Bloodlines 1 became a cult classic because parts of it are amazing. But, the "janky mess" part of it....completely killed its original developers, Troika. It sold 5 copies and doomed them entirely. I'm pretty sure no one had any intentions of repeating that; it sure looks like fate is trying to make it happen though!
Thanks for raising this as a possibility because now I'm going to be tremendously disappointed when it inevitably turns out that the game wasn't given to HBS.
Maybe the new dev will bring back the lead writers. Yeah, I didn’t think so either
To be fair, there's been several smaller releases that were well-received and well-written, but it seems like WoD is better suited to VNs than AAA-ish RPGs.
Also, hopefully HBS is busy with a follow up to Battletech?
Law and Order ≠ Justice
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As much as I'd love Bloodlines 2 to be what it was going to be, they could do worse than making it into a Shadowrun Returns-like.
They're not
Development ended on Battletech last year (maybe 2019? Time is meaningless) and they had a big wrap-up Q&A livestream and basically said "we can't say what we're doing next, but we are done with Battletech stuff until further notice." Idk if the game underperformed (which seems weird but who knows) or if the endless legal battles with Harmony Gold made it unprofitable to continue or if they just want to move on and do new things or what. But, regardless, they still haven't announced what the new gig is.
I mean this is just me woolgathering, I don't seriously think that HBS is working on VtM 2 (although it would be rad).
But I will say that unless Paradox either spin up a new studio themselves, or wait till an existing studio has a clear slate, whoever they approach to do the game will be busy on something, so that doesn't preclude anything. The new developers will just be in hiring mode and shifting resources for a while.
If Harebrained came out with a Vampire game in the style of Shadowrun: Dragonfall or Hong Kong, I'd be cool with it. Probably not what people would be hoping for when they hear "Bloodlines 2", so that's probably not what this hypothetical game should be called, but, y'know, it'd still be neat.
vtmb had mechanics so bad that honestly thats not too much of a worry for me tho lol
this could actually be a good thing - one of those "get rid of the old ideas and give a fresh team the chance to construct something more limited but coherent out of the pieces"
but it really depends on how much paradox are willing to sink into it in terms of resources, i suppose
also i would imagine whoever they give it to understand the significance of the original game, and might possibly re-open communications with mitsoda et al depending on why they departed
who knows
The Harmony Gold lawsuit was settled in 2018?
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
Law and Order ≠ Justice
ACNH Island Isla Cero: DA-3082-2045-4142
Captain of the SES Comptroller of the State
sure, but it still happened, and it still cost the studio money, and may have contributed to the decision to sell HBS to paradox (or may not have, since jordan weisman is a serial entrepreneur)
I'll continue to follow the development just because it's so fascinating of a timeline, but yeah. All hope has sailed on this one for me. I'll probably purchase if it's ever released, but this has been some batshit developments.
Twitch: KoopahTroopah - Steam: Koopah
They're not. Put very simply, the designs of certain Battletech 'mechs may have been based on Macross/Robotech designs which are probably owned by Harmony Gold. So Harmony Gold sued.
Sheesh. Super Robot Wars being localized would have given them a coronary.
They aren't.
(super short version, in spoilers cuz it's hells of off topic):
Harmony Gold, of course, had licensed some of the actual anime shows, particularly Macross, to produce Robotech.
Nothing happened with this for years and years but in the 90s, Harmony Gold kind of randomly decided to sue over this, claiming that they had exclusive rights to the visual representation of those designs in the NA market. FASA, looking at the documents, realized the licensing firm might not have actually have had the right to license those designs so settled or cut a deal out of court and agreed to no longer use those designs in visual media. Those mechs, many of which were iconic in the various Battletech books and art, became "unseen." They could be mentioned and talked about, their game stats were unchanged, but they could no longer depict them visually.
In the 2010s, Catalyst Game Labs, the part owners of the Battletech property and publishers of the TTRPG/wargame material, announced that they were moving forward with a retcon, a visual redesign of all the Unseen mechs that would take them out of legally dicey waters.
HBS announced when the Battletech game was Kickstarted that the game would be incorporating those redesigns. However, HG decided to sue anyway, and included Catalyst and also Piranha Games (the MWO dudes) in the mix. But Harmony Gold's own licensing status turns out to have been way shakier than previously thought (in the interim they'd fought some legal battles against the actual anime studios, IIRC to try and prevent the unedited Macross and Genesis Climber from being distributed in NA) and the court settled the issue with prejudice against the plaintiff, so they can't raise the issue in court anymore.
Metroid Prime 4, as well. Started development at one studio til Nintendo took it away from them and gave it to Retro.
Supposedly.
It remains to be seen that it's an actual in-development project.
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