oh wow nice agenda he's wearing on his sleeve there
For the record, every other language option for that option uses a form of “sect” when translating that line.
The “left-wing” is something that isn’t present at all in the original text
Can you give me the episode number and general time for that? I’d like to translate it myself.
In that thread creepo translator dude said the word used was Sect / Sekuto, which he implied had a police definition of leftist radicals but got pretty quickly countered that the word was likely used in reference to the subway sarin gas attacks by a cult during production of the show.
oh wow nice agenda he's wearing on his sleeve there
For the record, every other language option for that option uses a form of “sect” when translating that line.
The “left-wing” is something that isn’t present at all in the original text
Can you give me the episode number and general time for that? I’d like to translate it myself.
In that thread creepo translator dude said the word used was Sect / Sekuto, which he implied had a police definition of leftist radicals but got pretty quickly countered that the word was likely used in reference to the subway sarin gas attacks by a cult during production of the show.
The loanword "sect" was pretty interchangeable with "cult" at the time that the episode was made, and yes, it was influenced by the Aum Shinrikyo attacks.
oh wow nice agenda he's wearing on his sleeve there
For the record, every other language option for that option uses a form of “sect” when translating that line.
The “left-wing” is something that isn’t present at all in the original text
Can you give me the episode number and general time for that? I’d like to translate it myself.
In that thread creepo translator dude said the word used was Sect / Sekuto, which he implied had a police definition of leftist radicals but got pretty quickly countered that the word was likely used in reference to the subway sarin gas attacks by a cult during production of the show.
Hey remember last night how I was watching a movie about bullying, and we all were commiserating about how awful bullying is and what an interesting choice to see what it's like from the point of a view of a bully?
Look at this tweet from a professional Japanese translator:
She's referencing Weblio, an online dictionary that's pretty much the defacto used in Japan. Here's what that text says in case you want to try to put it into a translator and check it out yourself.
①主に左翼運動で、主張を同じくするものの集団。党派。
Primarily of [the]left-wing movement, a group that share the same opinion/claim. Faction.
... ok I can't find the second one but it was along the same lines of trying to interpret foreign cultural events through our own experiences.
It's fine to hate the message, but people are really piling on the messenger unfairly. I have yet to see anything he's produced that isn't 100% correct: he's not pushing an agenda, he's doing a singular job at translation.
I'm not mad at you rhylith or anyone else in this thread. I'm just upset to see someone in a job that I think is really cool (and might have done myself had I not joined the military) get mobbed by the internet at large for something beyond his control.
I specifically called him creepo translator dude because of other pretty damning details about him that have come up on Twitter that I don’t feel like getting back into, not this dialogue choice. Though you have to admit the choices he’s making that are getting called out are very much in a pattern.
You gotta "preserve the ambiguity" when translating Kwoaru's lines, but then when you've got lines where Shinji is talking to Asuka about how he needs her help you gotta make sure the line says "you're the only one for me." :rotate:
If you read additional tweets, you'll find that the word refers more specifically to the Japanese "New Left" movement, so even using "leftists" is still paints a picture that's not entirely accurate.
But no, sure, go ahead and call people rightfully being highly skeptical of a particular translator's justifications for decisions that don't seem entirely consistent as "bullying".
Internet gets mad at something in the new translation
Daniel tries to offer some explanation for it
A bunch of people who don't understand Japanese tell him he's wrong
More people pile on throwing their own bias onto him
I mean, I looked through a few months of his twitter. He seems like a nice guy. Posts about food, has strong opinions about manga, comics, creator/fan/company ownership, he's an amateur artist, and he's got a thing for catgirls. Let a translator/artist who didn't cut their teeth on porn throw the first stone I guess.
飛べねぇ豚はただの豚だ。
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Olivawgood name, isn't it?the foot of mt fujiRegistered Userregular
It's not fair to blame the translator for the text not saying what you want it to.
That really seems to be the only pattern here. Like, no, it's not a pattern if the translation isn't actually an issue in the first place. Incorrect accusations do not equal a pattern on the part of the translator.
And the way folks are now apparently digging through his life to look for evidence of sin is pretty gross.
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
I would say I'm inherently skeptical of a translation that--made in the context of an existing translation--minimizes the queerness of the show when faced with a decision that (and I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt here) could go either way.
Especially when, so far, the defenses have boiled down to, "well, it isn't as inaccurate as we initially assumed."
Stilts on
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GreasyKidsStuffMOMMM!ROAST BEEF WANTS TO KISS GIRLS ON THE TITTIES!Registered Userregular
Boy even on rewatch episodes 17&18 of Eva are a real one-two punch. Poor Shinji.
Harking back to Theme of King JJ, JJ’s scene comes the closest in Yuri on Ice to making me shed some tears. His scene in episode 11 is just really well done, I feel, regardless of what a douche he may be (it’s actually pretty impressive how much they manage to turn opinions round in that one scene; when it was first released I witnessed many people who’d been loving to hate on JJ remark that they now sort of liked the guy).
Harking back to Theme of King JJ, JJ’s scene comes the closest in Yuri on Ice to making me shed some tears. His scene in episode 11 is just really well done, I feel, regardless of what a douche he may be (it’s actually pretty impressive how much they manage to turn opinions round in that one scene; when it was first released I witnessed many people who’d been loving to hate on JJ remark that they now sort of liked the guy).
Yeah, he definitely becomes a more rounded person later in the arc.
Also I straight-up did shed a few tears during that sequence.
If you read additional tweets, you'll find that the word refers more specifically to the Japanese "New Left" movement, so even using "leftists" is still paints a picture that's not entirely accurate.
But no, sure, go ahead and call people rightfully being highly skeptical of a particular translator's justifications for decisions that don't seem entirely consistent as "bullying".
That seems fair.
When I look through the tweets I see a lot of people who all say the same thing. When I look at Weblio, which is the dictionary all my Japanese friends tell me to use, including one who was a professional translator at Sega, it says exactly what I showed you. Show me a native Japanese speaker or another professional translator who's saying he's wrong, and then I'll probably change my beliefs.
You gotta "preserve the ambiguity" when translating Kwoaru's lines, but then when you've got lines where Shinji is talking to Asuka about how he needs her help you gotta make sure the line says "you're the only one for me." :rotate:
I mean, I did go back and translate those lines. He did an entirely faithful translation, which by some of the other stuff we've seen was exactly what the license holder wanted. You're accusing him of pushing his own beliefs into his work but there is 0 evidence of that. Even that "you're the only one for me" line that I've seen a bunch of people try their hands at... I mean, how exactly do you translate 「アスカじゃなきゃ駄目なんだ」I tried it in 4 different auto-translators and got four wildly different answers. It's extremely casual Japanese: I can't even give you the actual literal translation because the いなきゃconstruct is used in so many different ways. The best I can offer is "Without Asuka, it's no good." I'd have to see the rest of the scene before I make my final determination, but the original translation "Help me Asuka, you're the only one who can." Strikes me as a little unemphatical for using 助ける. I like "Save me Asuka, it has to be you." personally.
Look man, I grew up with the English dub myself. I'm going to show that ADV version first to my brother and sister. The joke between me and my friends in High School when we took our first Japanese class together and discovered the terrible world of Doujishins was "Why is Shinji always the girl?" Maybe Netflix should have fought harder to preserve that, but I think the facts are extremely clear here that this man is not at fault because the new translation isn't what you or I want it to be.
I guess I will give that translator the benefit of the doubt about the leftist literal translation thing, but I'm giving them the side-eye real hard about it. And I think their translations definitely seem too literal to the point of losing important subtext and adding unintended subtext.
I'm not questioning the translator's grasp of Japanese or the original text, I'm questioning their use of English. The problem is that using the english phrase "leftist" in 2019, specifically in regards to a terrorist attack, conjures up a very particular image, despite the inherent vagueness of the term. If an English speaker mentions "leftist terrorists" then it is a near 100% bet that they are imagining the kind of Occupy movement caricatures and masked antifa thugs that pop up in all those alt-right image memes. Now, it's all well and good to say that well, the work was originally published in 1995, and the creator/writer grew up inundated with images of Japanese New Left extremism, but a huge part of translation is translating for your audience.
Now, I could see this being a product of a translator who, living and working in Japan, and by all accounts working closely with the native Japanese creator, is not personally aware of the exact implications of the term. However, when combined with the existing queer erasure and all the other shall we say questionable translation choices, I absolutely understand people not having any patience and going straight to assuming "this is bullshit."
I will say though, the tweet I've seen going around digging through the translator's twitter feed feels pretty fucking gross. Mostly because the author of said tweet is a real piece of shit who's past highlights include trying to "cancel" anyone who reads BL magna and accusing a Japanese cosplayer of faking being Japanese because, and I am being 100 percent serious here, they didn't think said cosplayer's eyes were slanty enough. Literally their entire account is stirring up twitter drama, and I feel confident in my ability to dunk on a shitty translation without resorting to that bullshit.
the translator dude has also posted frequently on his blog or whatever it is about some stuff that I would 100% classify as creepy, so I don't really think referring to him as 'creepo translator guy' is that out of line
Ph Blake and Stilts, I'm going to combine your arguments slightly, so please tell me if I misinterpret them a bit. You guys are making a different argument than what was said before which is "The translator should localize the work so that it provides similar meaning to an audience with different perceptions." But I think this is both an impossible goal, and honestly I also don't think it's a very admirable one either. It's impossible because we're talking about updating a 25 year-old work based on a very different national conscious to conform to both a different nation and time period. Suppose you successfully did that: knowing the prejudice of America's current political climate towards LGBTQ you made it more gay. Knowing the about Antifa and Occupy you catered to that. Could you do so in a way that was respectful to everyone's opinions on that matter? I think Eva's underlying philosophy is very clear on the impossibility of doing so. In choosing a particular side are you as a translator not importing your own biases onto someone else's work? Would the effort itself not be seen as the same kind of appropriation Hollywood is terribly guilty of whenever they import a foreign movie, but especially when they adapt a Japanese one?
This is why I don't think it's noble to do so either. Part of why I like anime is because it's made in Japan. Which is to say that it's infused with Japanese culture. With regard to the political tweet the 1995 Tokyo Subway attack is the influence, not 201X's American multiple mass-shootings. If localization changes it to reflect or reference those then it's Americanizing it, and that's not what I want.
As a translator, you are inherently going to place your own biases in the work that you do, because languages often don't have 1:1 word equivalents or connotations. I mean, the dude states in his explanation of the love/like change that "leaving room for interpretation makes things exciting." That is a valid argument, but it's also one that rooted in a particular bias. He's already doing that! So the question I find myself asking is, for the new translations, why are specific diversions from the original translation being made?
And the arguments I've heard in favor of the changes do not convince me that the changes were improvements or even necessary.
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I also like Platinum Disco a lot
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Can you give me the episode number and general time for that? I’d like to translate it myself.
In that thread creepo translator dude said the word used was Sect / Sekuto, which he implied had a police definition of leftist radicals but got pretty quickly countered that the word was likely used in reference to the subway sarin gas attacks by a cult during production of the show.
A surgeon that operated on my mother was named John Galt.
I...may have laughed myself silly when I found out his name.
Boy, the speech before the surgery must have taken a while.
The loanword "sect" was pretty interchangeable with "cult" at the time that the episode was made, and yes, it was influenced by the Aum Shinrikyo attacks.
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so is the ending
Probably put her right to sleep as fast as any anesthetic, though.
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Hey remember last night how I was watching a movie about bullying, and we all were commiserating about how awful bullying is and what an interesting choice to see what it's like from the point of a view of a bully?
Look at this tweet from a professional Japanese translator:
She's referencing Weblio, an online dictionary that's pretty much the defacto used in Japan. Here's what that text says in case you want to try to put it into a translator and check it out yourself.
①主に左翼運動で、主張を同じくするものの集団。党派。
Primarily of [the]left-wing movement, a group that share the same opinion/claim. Faction.
I think these two tweets sum up my feelings:
... ok I can't find the second one but it was along the same lines of trying to interpret foreign cultural events through our own experiences.
It's fine to hate the message, but people are really piling on the messenger unfairly. I have yet to see anything he's produced that isn't 100% correct: he's not pushing an agenda, he's doing a singular job at translation.
I'm not mad at you rhylith or anyone else in this thread. I'm just upset to see someone in a job that I think is really cool (and might have done myself had I not joined the military) get mobbed by the internet at large for something beyond his control.
I feel like getting this guy some bread and throwing it to carp under a bridge.
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
But no, sure, go ahead and call people rightfully being highly skeptical of a particular translator's justifications for decisions that don't seem entirely consistent as "bullying".
That seems fair.
I mean, I looked through a few months of his twitter. He seems like a nice guy. Posts about food, has strong opinions about manga, comics, creator/fan/company ownership, he's an amateur artist, and he's got a thing for catgirls. Let a translator/artist who didn't cut their teeth on porn throw the first stone I guess.
I only ever caught the first season of Durarara but it was also the season that had the best OP so
PSN ID : DetectiveOlivaw | TWITTER | STEAM ID | NEVER FORGET
That really seems to be the only pattern here. Like, no, it's not a pattern if the translation isn't actually an issue in the first place. Incorrect accusations do not equal a pattern on the part of the translator.
And the way folks are now apparently digging through his life to look for evidence of sin is pretty gross.
Especially when, so far, the defenses have boiled down to, "well, it isn't as inaccurate as we initially assumed."
Yeah, he definitely becomes a more rounded person later in the arc.
Also I straight-up did shed a few tears during that sequence.
When I look through the tweets I see a lot of people who all say the same thing. When I look at Weblio, which is the dictionary all my Japanese friends tell me to use, including one who was a professional translator at Sega, it says exactly what I showed you. Show me a native Japanese speaker or another professional translator who's saying he's wrong, and then I'll probably change my beliefs.
I mean, I did go back and translate those lines. He did an entirely faithful translation, which by some of the other stuff we've seen was exactly what the license holder wanted. You're accusing him of pushing his own beliefs into his work but there is 0 evidence of that. Even that "you're the only one for me" line that I've seen a bunch of people try their hands at... I mean, how exactly do you translate 「アスカじゃなきゃ駄目なんだ」I tried it in 4 different auto-translators and got four wildly different answers. It's extremely casual Japanese: I can't even give you the actual literal translation because the いなきゃconstruct is used in so many different ways. The best I can offer is "Without Asuka, it's no good." I'd have to see the rest of the scene before I make my final determination, but the original translation "Help me Asuka, you're the only one who can." Strikes me as a little unemphatical for using 助ける. I like "Save me Asuka, it has to be you." personally.
Look man, I grew up with the English dub myself. I'm going to show that ADV version first to my brother and sister. The joke between me and my friends in High School when we took our first Japanese class together and discovered the terrible world of Doujishins was "Why is Shinji always the girl?" Maybe Netflix should have fought harder to preserve that, but I think the facts are extremely clear here that this man is not at fault because the new translation isn't what you or I want it to be.
Now, I could see this being a product of a translator who, living and working in Japan, and by all accounts working closely with the native Japanese creator, is not personally aware of the exact implications of the term. However, when combined with the existing queer erasure and all the other shall we say questionable translation choices, I absolutely understand people not having any patience and going straight to assuming "this is bullshit."
I will say though, the tweet I've seen going around digging through the translator's twitter feed feels pretty fucking gross. Mostly because the author of said tweet is a real piece of shit who's past highlights include trying to "cancel" anyone who reads BL magna and accusing a Japanese cosplayer of faking being Japanese because, and I am being 100 percent serious here, they didn't think said cosplayer's eyes were slanty enough. Literally their entire account is stirring up twitter drama, and I feel confident in my ability to dunk on a shitty translation without resorting to that bullshit.
This is why I don't think it's noble to do so either. Part of why I like anime is because it's made in Japan. Which is to say that it's infused with Japanese culture. With regard to the political tweet the 1995 Tokyo Subway attack is the influence, not 201X's American multiple mass-shootings. If localization changes it to reflect or reference those then it's Americanizing it, and that's not what I want.
And the arguments I've heard in favor of the changes do not convince me that the changes were improvements or even necessary.
PSN: Robo_Wizard1
i disagree
I was disappointed to find out that the edited version of the song is actually much better than the full version.
edit: this one gets points for Juno Reactor.