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[Total War] "Peace!" "WAR!" "War and Peace." "JUST WAR." "The book, sister."

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Posts

  • KanaKana Registered User regular
    lol, I managed to pull a fast one on Liu Bei. Playing as Kong Rong, and I'm pretty well surrounded on all sides by heavy hitters. We all get along, and I have a military access agreement with Liu Bei, but he's got like half the peninsula and between him and Yuan Shao there's not really anywhere for me to expand to anymore.

    But down south of Liu Bei there's a minor lord without any alliances, and I decide to send my army down there to take a swipe at him. Lo and behold, his own army was off on campaign, and I seize the city. Buuut I'm pretty well depleted from the fight, and his army is still out there somewhere and can probably take me.

    So I immediately turn around and make a trade offer to Liu Bei. You take this nice city, and I'll trade you for the contested farmland on the peninsula. I won't have to defend a far-away city and get to consolidate, and he expands further south and gets a high-value city. He agrees.

    Except of course that it's a pretty big city, and he just traded away farmland. So now he's running a major food deficit, and is desperate to make a deal.

    Well, I can help you with that... For your fishing port.

    So I ended up getting two towns for one battle, and Liu Bei went from being powerful and self-sufficient, to being on the hook every 10 turns if he wants to keep eating.

    Probably a trick they need to patch so the AI will notice the impact of food loss on region trading, but pretty amusing.

    A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
    MirkelSpectrumOlivawGONG-00never dieBigityKristmas Kthulhu
  • TubeTube Registered User admin
    I sneak attacked Cao Cao for a -5 reliability hit and took out his capital in one turn with three armies.

    He was a super bro about it! I sued for peace next turn and he was all “look pay me out and I’ll be your vassal too” so I have him autonomy and some pocket money for being chill.

    Wei have also declared war but they’re in a rough position: not much access to me and I can get to them from anywhere. They’re only -30 to abdicating so I think it’ll be over before I get to their capital.

    Elvenshae
  • FiendishrabbitFiendishrabbit Registered User regular
    It's hilarious that Cao Caos greatest special building (Rice farming garrison) is one he's not even near. Rice paddies only exist in the very far south west or the very far south, and that's a really long march.

    "The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
    -Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
  • KanaKana Registered User regular
    I do really like that the AI is legit willing to just give up on territory if it's losing a war.

    Like most strategy games will include like a big negative modifier for losing territory, so like the worse the AI is losing the war the less willing they are to make a deal. It always ends up leading to those endless, all-or-nothing wars, and it never feels like very human decision-making.

    In 3K the AI is much more willing to cut a deal and live another day, it really lets you use your full diplomatic toolkit.

    A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
    OlivawFiendishrabbitEnclaveofGnomesTurambarBotznoyThe BraysterBigityMoridin889Elvenshae
  • RetabaRetaba A Cultist Registered User regular
    Huh, I got Zheng Jiang to marry Lu Bu, all it cost was 2 ancillaries and about 2k gold. I feel like their children will be monsters?

    BigityKruiteOlivawElvenshae
  • BotznoyBotznoy Registered User regular
    Also I've had a few times where AI have peaced out by offering up land for me to leave them alone. It felt like a lot of care went into the design

    IZF2byN.jpg

    Want to play co-op games? Feel free to hit me up!
    KanaElvenshae
  • PerduraboPerdurabo Registered User regular
    Does this lead to regions changing hands too frequently? I have the game downloaded, waiting to play tonight, but one of the problems with Thrones of Britannia is that regions would change hands so often that they never really had a sense of place. I mean it had a lot of problems, but that was definitely in the top 20.

  • EnclaveofGnomesEnclaveofGnomes Registered User regular
    Perdurabo wrote: »
    Does this lead to regions changing hands too frequently? I have the game downloaded, waiting to play tonight, but one of the problems with Thrones of Britannia is that regions would change hands so often that they never really had a sense of place. I mean it had a lot of problems, but that was definitely in the top 20.

    The AI doesn't seem to trade territory to often with each other

  • KruiteKruite Registered User regular
    edited May 2019
    Sun Jian's campaign is drawing to a close. Pop died at an old age of 67. Lady Sun just passed away, about two years later. Sun Ce does have a son, but he declare Sun Quan his heir, and his wife as prime minister.

    The two of them are adding about -50% relocation costs and -15% corruption (5% inherited trait from the new Lady Sun, 10% from anciliaries).

    Liu Bei vassalized under me, and I just traded him Cao Cao territory because I can't be bothered to hold it all or to accept the additional corruption. I'm moving in on the provinces of the Yellow river border, and the port city / capital by Kong Rong have been taken back. Liu Bei has 3 stacks and just recaptured dong from a long absence. Actually, it's not Liu Bei, it is his son Liu Li. I'm saddened to say that Lu Bu murdered Zhuge Liang.

    I'm making 20k a turn now. Getting those -10% corruption (adjacent territories) everywhere works wonders

    Kruite on
  • The BraysterThe Brayster UKRegistered User regular
    I just started a new campaign as Zhang Yan and BOY is it a BLAST being able to just ambush armies when you attack them. I haven't even made much territorial gain, I've literally spent several ingame years just harassing Yuan Shao to no end, wiping out any stacks he leads up north with ambush after ambush. Seriously, you ambush the stack, and don't even feel too bad if you don't manage to chase them all down, because you can just AMBUSH THE SURVIVORS AGAIN on the double tap.

    I've gotten to the point now where I make it my signature to have the rest of the ambushing army hide as normal, but then just have Zhang Yan walk out alone in front of the army all like 'Yeah, 'SUP, you're mine now'. Cut the camera to Yuan Shao being all 'Ah c'mon, not this guy again'.

    Then I ambush the survivors. Yuan Shao leads the ragtag bunch homebound. cursing under his breath that he will get that damned bandit if it's the last thing he does. Cut to Zhang Yan walking out of the treeline, alone, on the trail directly ahead - 'Miss me?'. Cut back to Yuan Shao 'OH COME ON;.

    Steam: TheBrayster
    PSN: TheBrayster_92
    GaryOnever dieRetaba
  • TubeTube Registered User admin
    I've been chipping away at Sun Jian's empire pretty much unopposed, it doesn't seem like he has any armies in the area at all and I'm mostly just rocking through farmland with three armies. I suspect that the diplomacy + for losing battles might cap out at +50 though? He's only about -10 to abdicating, so it's either going to be over as soon as I get home tonight or I'm going to have to push to the capital and have a big fight.

    I also saw Lu Bu duel for the first time, against a red general. He took a surprising amount of damage, but also just fucking wiped this guy out in three hits. It was bonkers. He's also as fast as a goddamn cruise missile.

    Best diplomatic play I've seen so far was from one of my vassals being attacked. I rejected the call to aid and took the diplomacy hit (I didn't want to fight Yuan Sho again) and they said "ok cool no worries" and immediately (same turn) paid money to be my vassal again, forcing everyone attacking him to make peace. Good play.

    Two things I learned recently
    • If someone hates you and you have spare food, just give it to them. They'll like you more, and are unlikely to declare war and bork their supplies. I turned a vassal from hating me to loving me extremely quickly by feeding their people. I always do it for vassals and think it's a good play any time you've just made peace.
    • Assignments are actually crazy powerful, don't sleep on these. Take a look at your big money provinces and throw in some -corruption and +commerce assignments and double your income.

    KanaFiendishrabbitMoridin889Elvenshae
  • KruiteKruite Registered User regular
    edited May 2019
    I have a vanguard champion that has +100% food production. So one of my provinces is now producing 41 food in addition to the 16-24 or so that it's consuming for its province capital.

    Kruite on
  • JepheryJephery Registered User regular
    edited May 2019
    Suiciding Kong Rong (who has resilience so he won't permanantly die, and his retinue is out of ammo so who cares about their morale) to buff my two other commanders with Oathsworn fallen is pretty clutch. +100% attack rate/damage and +40% melee evasion lets them solo the rest of the enemy army lol.

    Jephery on
    }
    "Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
    KruiteElvenshae
  • HamHamJHamHamJ Registered User regular
    Tube wrote: »
    I've been chipping away at Sun Jian's empire pretty much unopposed, it doesn't seem like he has any armies in the area at all and I'm mostly just rocking through farmland with three armies. I suspect that the diplomacy + for losing battles might cap out at +50 though? He's only about -10 to abdicating, so it's either going to be over as soon as I get home tonight or I'm going to have to push to the capital and have a big fight.

    I also saw Lu Bu duel for the first time, against a red general. He took a surprising amount of damage, but also just fucking wiped this guy out in three hits. It was bonkers. He's also as fast as a goddamn cruise missile.

    Best diplomatic play I've seen so far was from one of my vassals being attacked. I rejected the call to aid and took the diplomacy hit (I didn't want to fight Yuan Sho again) and they said "ok cool no worries" and immediately (same turn) paid money to be my vassal again, forcing everyone attacking him to make peace. Good play.

    Two things I learned recently
    • If someone hates you and you have spare food, just give it to them. They'll like you more, and are unlikely to declare war and bork their supplies. I turned a vassal from hating me to loving me extremely quickly by feeding their people. I always do it for vassals and think it's a good play any time you've just made peace.
    • Assignments are actually crazy powerful, don't sleep on these. Take a look at your big money provinces and throw in some -corruption and +commerce assignments and double your income.

    The thing I hate about assignments is that there seems to be no indication in the main view that you have ones open and the message on the side bar shows up a turn before you can actually reassign people.

    While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
    Moridin889
  • TubeTube Registered User admin
    Are the defenders of heaven/earth units good enough to justify the extravagant cost?

  • KruiteKruite Registered User regular
    edited May 2019
    Defenders of Earth fire explosive armor piercing arrows. The AI has a few of them every now and then. I failed to take 1 unit out first in one of my battles last night and this unit alone murdered 2 azure dragon units in a ranged to range fight. Only reason they didn't murder more of my front line is because I finally saw them and charged at them with cav.

    They are scary.

    Defenders of Heaven are basically Azure Dragons without the bow and arrow & innate defensive stance. They have a curious advantage though, 60% ranged block chance. (they may also have a slightly different melee stats, but it's so minor I wouldn't worry about the rest of the stat line)

    EDIT: more clarification. I defended against 3 stack army in a siege battle. One of these guys got 300 kills against my defending units. They probably had more ammo, but the number of towers in a lvl 9 siege is crazy to the point that it was the settlement defenses that eventually took care of them.

    Kruite on
  • JepheryJephery Registered User regular
    edited May 2019
    High tier archers can get 2-4 times more kills than Archer Militia simply due to their higher base ammo, and they can fight in the melee better with higher stats. They're worth taking.

    The elite polearm infantry doesn't have a shield so I don't think they're worth it in the field. DPS infantry are just worse than shock cavalry or archers, except in sieges where they can murder. Having one or two in a stack for siege street fighting can be good.

    Edit: Oh if they have ranged block chance without a shield then they're good.

    Jephery on
    }
    "Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
  • BigityBigity Lubbock, TXRegistered User regular
    I like the glaive infantry with bows in the agriculture/green tree.

  • TubeTube Registered User admin
    One of the things about playing Liu Bei is I used militia units exclusively for almost the entire game.

    OlivawSpectrum
  • MassenaMassena Registered User regular
    Having a weird event happen in a new game where Cao Cao (me) turns pacifist about 10 turns in. Like, what? What am I doing here to do that? I'm literally conquering everything around me. I backed up a turn to and replayed two or three battles to see if that mattered, no dice. Dude likes peace. Which is REALLY messing up his entire court relations. Just weird.

  • FiendishrabbitFiendishrabbit Registered User regular
    edited May 2019
    Kruite wrote: »
    Defenders of Earth fire explosive armor piercing arrows. The AI has a few of them every now and then. I failed to take 1 unit out first in one of my battles last night and this unit alone murdered 2 azure dragon units in a ranged to range fight. Only reason they didn't murder more of my front line is because I finally saw them and charged at them with cav.

    They are scary.

    Defenders of Heaven are basically Azure Dragons without the bow and arrow & innate defensive stance. They have a curious advantage though, 60% ranged block chance. (they may also have a slightly different melee stats, but it's so minor I wouldn't worry about the rest of the stat line)

    Protectors of Heaven have insane attack values. Azure dragons are good (especially for their mixed stance, but they run out of ammo pretty quicky), but in melee Protectors of heaven are absolutely insane.

    Fiendishrabbit on
    "The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
    -Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
  • finnithfinnith ... TorontoRegistered User regular
    I haven't really played a Total War game since Medieval 2. I have no idea what to build and how to spec for reforms. I'm playing as the Cavalry focused guys to the west and have decided that the tyrant isn't worth it when I can just beat up on the guys to my south. Are livestock their own resource you have to have a building in a livestock farm commandery for? Cavalry are expensive, what's the ideal breakdown for an army? Is it that problematic if my Trader PM doesn't like my leader & heir? What do spies even do?

    Bnet: CavilatRest#1874
    Steam: CavilatRest
  • KruiteKruite Registered User regular
    Something to keep in mind is the character traits interactions do not inherently dictate that characters won't get along; some traits are in direct opposition to each other, and if you have multiples of these then it increases the chances that they hate each other.

    But Sun Jian Starts with Lu Su, and they have opposing view points. But their running around the map together eventually got them to be oathsworn. It takes longer, but it is possible.

    Moridin889finnith
  • FiendishrabbitFiendishrabbit Registered User regular
    edited May 2019
    finnith wrote: »
    I haven't really played a Total War game since Medieval 2. I have no idea what to build and how to spec for reforms. I'm playing as the Cavalry focused guys to the west and have decided that the tyrant isn't worth it when I can just beat up on the guys to my south. Are livestock their own resource you have to have a building in a livestock farm commandery for? Cavalry are expensive, what's the ideal breakdown for an army? Is it that problematic if my Trader PM doesn't like my leader & heir? What do spies even do?

    1a. Livestock is a resource (I don't know which buildings that require livestock).
    1b. Livestock farms are a type of region (which are awesome since they give plenty of peasantry income and food. Commanderies with livestock farms are among my most profitable)
    1c. The TK economic system is a pretty big interlocking mesh of different resources that require reforms, buildings and resources. Resources are typicly given by resource buildings (livestock, fish, lumber, tea, iron) or Tier 4+ city buildings (entrepreneurs, artisans etc). Tier 5 resource buildings typicly require resources given by Tier 4+ city buildings, while tier 3/4/5 city buildings frequently require resources.
    2. Cavalry is expensive, but it's also pretty awesome for flanking, crushing sword infantry (unless they have a champion with charge negation around) and hunting down enemy archers. 2-4 units of cavalry tend to be matchdeciders if you can tie up their infantry with your infantry. However, too much cavalry and you can't lock down the enemy infantry, or you end up lacking in archers (archers tends to be the best way to settle a fight if you can't flank, or if you need to weaken specific enemy units).
    3. Spies are pretty awesome. First of all. When you infiltrate a spy they will give you info on enemy territory. Since you don't have any other agents that's the only way you can get information outside your own territory and allies. Then they can do amazing things if they're appointed generals or administrators or even adopted. It's all about tiny tipping points in your favor. So far I've only gotten spies as generals, but they're so good. That army that didn't quite make it to your city this turn. That army that lost 20% of its troops due to poison just before a crucial battle. That's a real force multiplier. They do require foresight.

    Fiendishrabbit on
    "The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
    -Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
    finnith
  • TubeTube Registered User admin
    I think I like this better than Warhammer

    oh god

    Olivawnever dieBigityKanaEnclaveofGnomesKadokenFencingsaxElvenshaeboogedyboo
  • FiendishrabbitFiendishrabbit Registered User regular
    Tube wrote: »
    I think I like this better than Warhammer

    oh god

    TK&Warhammer are like the very extreme opposite versions of Total war.

    Warhammer: "We have perfected the Total War battle! We have widest spread of different unit categories and the most insane units in each category!"
    Warhammer Critics: But you have barely any building or resource management and the politics are rudimentary at best.

    TK: "We have made incredible strides forward in strategic play! The Economy, Politicking, Character management and Strategic maneuvering is unmatched!"
    TK critics: But your units are a huge step backwards compared to Warhammer and your battles aren't as fun.

    "The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
    -Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
    CantidoElvenshae
  • PerduraboPerdurabo Registered User regular
    Yeah but imagine some of the improvements being transferred over to Warhammer 3. Also, like politics are so not what Warhammer is about. I don't want too much court intrigue in my Chaos playthrough thankyou very much.

    BigityElvenshae
  • HamHamJHamHamJ Registered User regular
    Yes, hopefully TWW3 can combine the campaign improvements of TW3K with the much more interesting unit and faction diversity of Warhammer.

    While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
  • CantidoCantido Registered User regular
    Perdurabo wrote: »
    Yeah but imagine some of the improvements being transferred over to Warhammer 3. Also, like politics are so not what Warhammer is about. I don't want too much court intrigue in my Chaos playthrough thankyou very much.

    Yeah, there's not much political nuance when everybody is xenophobic against everybody.

    3DS Friendcode 5413-1311-3767
  • TubeTube Registered User admin
    I feel like battles in 3K are much... tighter than in Warhammer. I feel more in control. Some of the lack of diversity is a good thing, too. I can know roughly what a unit does just by looking at its colour, where in TWW there's a lot of units that are hard to figure out.

    I like both games, and don't want TW to lose a ton of units, but I think there are just a ton of improvements in this game that TW needs to implement.

    It's so fast.

    OlivawKanaFencingsaxMassenaElvenshae
  • FiendishrabbitFiendishrabbit Registered User regular
    Perdurabo wrote: »
    Yeah but imagine some of the improvements being transferred over to Warhammer 3. Also, like politics are so not what Warhammer is about. I don't want too much court intrigue in my Chaos playthrough thankyou very much.

    Both games are great, and could learn things from each other. But no, the Politicking and the intricate resource management that makes TK great does not belong in Warhammer. However I think warhammer could benefit from the way TK handles minor settlements, and the Retinue model for army building is probably the greatest innovation they've done.

    Ok, so it's not "super tabletop", but warhammer armies would feel a lot more thematic if you for example had to bring a Branchwraith or Life/Beast wizard to recruit treemen or a Death Hag to lead Sisters of Slaughter. Or if your High Elf prince had to reach a certain tier in order to field star dragons&stuff.

    "The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
    -Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
    Moridin889
  • PerduraboPerdurabo Registered User regular
    This is my first night playing the game, but I don't really like the unit bars across the bottom. I like to see a card with a spear guy, not arms with a spear. Dunno why it bothers me, maybe it'll seem better after a few days.

    Honestly the best battles for me were always the Medieval 2 ones, the pace of them felt better. The default time outs are usually 60 minutes in total war, but it's been speeded up ever since Rome 2, I can't imagine a 60 minute battle since then.

  • AspectVoidAspectVoid Registered User regular
    edited May 2019
    There's an alternate unit card option in the settings. Its classic style card.

    AspectVoid on
    PSN|AspectVoid
    Kana
  • TubeTube Registered User admin
    I think there's absolutely room to duplicate the 3K court intrigue for High Elves, Dark Elves, Wood Elves, Empire, Dwarfs... most races to be honest. Even if it's just internal to the faction.

    CantidoFiendishrabbitOlivawEnclaveofGnomesFencingsaxElvenshae
  • JepheryJephery Registered User regular
    Tube wrote: »
    I think I like this better than Warhammer

    oh god

    TK&Warhammer are like the very extreme opposite versions of Total war.

    Warhammer: "We have perfected the Total War battle! We have widest spread of different unit categories and the most insane units in each category!"
    Warhammer Critics: But you have barely any building or resource management and the politics are rudimentary at best.

    TK: "We have made incredible strides forward in strategic play! The Economy, Politicking, Character management and Strategic maneuvering is unmatched!"
    TK critics: But your units are a huge step backwards compared to Warhammer and your battles aren't as fun.

    Three Kingdoms is basically Shogun 3. I really want Shogun 3 with all of Three Kingdom's improvements now.

    }
    "Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
    Fiendishrabbitnever dieBigityOlivawEnclaveofGnomesKadokenElvenshaeboogedyboo
  • CantidoCantido Registered User regular
    edited May 2019
    Tube wrote: »
    I think there's absolutely room to duplicate the 3K court intrigue for High Elves, Dark Elves, Wood Elves, Empire, Dwarfs... most races to be honest. Even if it's just internal to the faction.

    Marry not the dark elf waifu

    Cantido on
    3DS Friendcode 5413-1311-3767
    BigityElvenshae
  • TubeTube Registered User admin
    I can't really figure the marriage stuff out. Literally everyone in my faction is apparently ineligible for it? I married Liu Bei off early on but like Guan Yu and Zang Fei apparently aren't interested in... oh

    oh

    FiendishrabbitOlivawFencingsaxKane Red RobeElvenshaeKristmas Kthulhu
  • PerduraboPerdurabo Registered User regular
    Tube wrote: »
    I think there's absolutely room to duplicate the 3K court intrigue for High Elves, Dark Elves, Wood Elves, Empire, Dwarfs... most races to be honest. Even if it's just internal to the faction.

    It seems a bit too involved to be something only for certain factions. It'd be like how Rome II was only balanced for the Roman factions and the senate - other factions could just completely ignore that stuff and were stronger for it.

  • TubeTube Registered User admin
    From a quick look I can see two factions who wouldn't use it.

  • TubeTube Registered User admin
    I have a real bugbear and I'm wondering if I'm missing something: there seems to be no way to mass select units from a retinue to disband or swap. It's super annoying to swap out units! One by one! What is this shit?! Neither shift click nor ctrl click work

This discussion has been closed.