I feel like battles in 3K are much... tighter than in Warhammer. I feel more in control. Some of the lack of diversity is a good thing, too. I can know roughly what a unit does just by looking at its colour, where in TWW there's a lot of units that are hard to figure out.
I like both games, and don't want TW to lose a ton of units, but I think there are just a ton of improvements in this game that TW needs to implement.
It's so fast.
Oddly I have the opposite reaction.
I have no idea what's going on in my 3K battles, whereas I mostly felt in control of my Wahmmer ones and that my tactics mattered.
The overworld section is a lot better. I much prefer the one main settlement with resource node system, the ability to trade pieces of land to complete provinces is huge, always a massive bugbear of mine in the Warhammer version, plus all the other political features.
I have a real bugbear and I'm wondering if I'm missing something: there seems to be no way to mass select units from a retinue to disband or swap. It's super annoying to swap out units! One by one! What is this shit?! Neither shift click nor ctrl click work
Its also nearly impossible to rearrange the unit cards. That's really getting on my nerves.
This seems so obvious that I figured I was probably wrong?
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Olivawgood name, isn't it?the foot of mt fujiRegistered Userregular
You can rearrange units in battle, by clicking and dragging them. They’ll always end up at the end of whatever retinue, but you can do this to arrange your drag formations the way you want and I think the arrangement carries back into the campaign map
This is the only way I’ve found to do this and yes it is very annoying to my OCD brain
Yeah I noticed that, I always make sure to recruit units in the order I like to see them lol.
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"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
Started a campaign as He Yi because death to all false nobility etc. I was not prepared for the Yellow Turban Books of Reform. I was just starting to get used to the cherry blossoms.
I think my entire roster of possible recruits might be spies...
I might recruit Zhang Jiang anyway. Both since she's a boss and because Shi Hui is down to their last province (and I'm not their enemy!).
Fiendishrabbit on
"The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
i'm still stumbling through my first campaign and just realized that my spies can do stuff after they are embedded in enemy territory. As in, there are options and buttons to click in the undercover menu instead of just letting them passively scout out the enemy faction
I think there's absolutely room to duplicate the 3K court intrigue for High Elves, Dark Elves, Wood Elves, Empire, Dwarfs... most races to be honest. Even if it's just internal to the faction.
I think the Empire would greatly be improved by having an internal 3K court. Not that the other's wouldn't be improved by it too but the intrigue is already in the setting lore.
I would not get my hopes up that TW3 will be that much different from 1 or 2 though. I am willing to be positively surprised though.
TK&Warhammer are like the very extreme opposite versions of Total war.
Warhammer: "We have perfected the Total War battle! We have widest spread of different unit categories and the most insane units in each category!"
Warhammer Critics: But you have barely any building or resource management and the politics are rudimentary at best.
TK: "We have made incredible strides forward in strategic play! The Economy, Politicking, Character management and Strategic maneuvering is unmatched!"
TK critics: But your units are a huge step backwards compared to Warhammer and your battles aren't as fun.
Three Kingdoms is basically Shogun 3. I really want Shogun 3 with all of Three Kingdom's improvements now.
I would like to see Oda Nobunaga's trait for rudeness be a real thing rather than the nothing of a diplomatic penalty it gives.
Sun Jian playthrough complete. something on the order of 240 turns. Liu Bei's lineage eventually failed. But then a great surprise happened. Guan Yu inherited the kingdom! The God of War has not been on the field for a decade and he yet lives!
Couldn't get Ma Chao to join, to my great disappointment.
Bought 3K while fanatical was still doing their sale and the Yellow Turban DLC was available for free and started playing last night. I of course started playing as noted Tzeentchian cultist Cao Cao. Though going Yellow Turban was tempting, but figured I would go traditional at first. Zheng Jiang was also tempting since she looks super sick aesthetically, but I didn't like how her infamy system sounded.
You can make your own vassals through administrators with "Increases the chance of seeking independence as an administrator" traits. Nice if you need more trade partners, though it takes a few turns for it to fire.
Jephery on
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"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
You can make your own vassals through administrators with "Increases the chance of seeking independence as an administrator" traits. Nice if you need more trade partners, though it takes a few turns for it to fire.
You can make your own vassals through administrators with "Increases the chance of seeking independence as an administrator" traits. Nice if you need more trade partners, though it takes a few turns for it to fire.
Not sure what this means?
I'm not sure the name of the trait, but it has an effect of "desires independence while administrator". It's basically a next tier of desires a high position trait (there are many that have this).
It gives the character a random chance per turn to trigger an event that has them ask for independence. If you say no, they get a negative satisfaction modifier (-25?). If you say yes, they create a new faction out of the province they administer, but they are your vassal.
I'm finding it pretty hard to actually keep track of the politics in this. A few issues pop up again and again;
There seems to be no real cost for AI factions to break deals. I've given enemies generous tributes in the hope of just keeping them off my back for a while, only to have them rejoin the war the very next turn.
I keep dropping out of wars without the game really telling me why. I think it's generally because the enemy got vassalised by some other faction or entered a coalition, but it feels off.
Benny hill chases are still very much a thing, though slightly mitigated by war supplies. I frequently have to spend 5+ turns chasing a stack that just refuses to turn around and fight
I might just be missing something obvious, but I find it annoying that when a faction offers me peace or a non-aggression pact I can't see which other faction that deal includes. I've had to reload the game several times after realizing that the peace deal I just made with an obscure minor nation way in the north also peaced out my fiercest rival.
I'm enjoying the game overall though, and I'm slowly getting the hang of it. I'm currently nearing the end of my Yellow Turban playthrough, though the end is quite a slog. Basically the entire world has been at war with me for most of the game, and I need to grind my way to 95 regions to win despite having taken out all of the emperor seats.
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Olivawgood name, isn't it?the foot of mt fujiRegistered Userregular
The things that bother me about the retreat mechanic are that a) a unit that is in forced march can still retreat and b) a stack that chooses to retreat will straight up retreat though another army’s engagement radius
There have been a few times where I felt like “haha I have them boxed in they can’t retreat now” and then I try to attack them and they just retreat through my other army standing next to them and boy howdy that’s not how that should work
Zheng Jiang has a nightmare start, but if you get her going her infamy mechanic is terrifying. It turns out having unbreakable on literally your entire army is a big deal.
I think Huang Shao has the hardest start. A yellow turban in between Yuan Shao, Cao Cao, Liu Bei, and Kong Rong. That is nasty, you don't have any diplomacy, you just have to kill everything.
Jephery on
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"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
Welp, looks like my He Yi campaign is done as there is a siege battle that the autoresolve says would be a loss but that I can easily win if I play it, but it has now crashed twice when I do so.
While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
One thing I'm appreciating about 3K is that high tier units feel valuable. I still really enjoy TWH, but I found the really expensive units were usually more about fun than tactical value (due to their high upkeep costs).
What formations you have access to is determined by whether you have a Strategist in your army. Level 1 Strategist gives Loose, and level 3 unlocks everything else (I think). Its unlocked for all the units in the army, not just the Strategist retinue.
This isn't explicitly explained anywhere (the strategist description mentions it but doesn't explain how it works), so don't worry that you missed it.
Jephery on
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"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
Also the basic militia units can't use formations no matter what, because they're losers
Which is another strong argument against only using the cheap units, cuz formations can be quite nice, especially for holding the line
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
Also the basic militia units can't use formations no matter what, because they're losers
Which is another strong argument against only using the cheap units, cuz formations can be quite nice, especially for holding the line
Archers and Sabre infantry also have a pretty big edge on their militia variants, but don't have much higher upkeep. Investing in the basic miltiary units is mostly a case of fronting that initial cost. The elite units though are best used sparingly unless you're just swimming in money. Which kind of fits what 3k armies looked like historically. In one campaign I think Cao Cao had 100,000+ troops, but less than 500 armored cavalry.
"The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
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Olivawgood name, isn't it?the foot of mt fujiRegistered Userregular
One thing I'm appreciating about 3K is that high tier units feel valuable. I still really enjoy TWH, but I found the really expensive units were usually more about fun than tactical value (due to their high upkeep costs).
I really have to disagree, I’ve found the high tier units way too fragile to be worth the investment, especially in the late game and especially in comparison to Warhammer, where the really expensive stuff for certain factions felt damn near immortal (monsters and moops especially)
Maybe I’m just not used to old school historical Total War anymore but imperial units just should not lose health and die so easily!
Then again I think most units lose health a little too fast for my liking so maybe it’s just me
Warhammer's elite infantry are a little all over the place when it comes to campaign mode. Usually it depends on how good they are at dealing with ranged fire. Like the Executioners for Dark Elves are kind of notorious for getting mowed down before they can really do damage. On the other hand Swordmasters are amazing in campaign since they can block projectiles and kick a lot of ass once they get into melee.
Which I think is a fairly strong condemnation of the whole thing where they have the same balance for both campaign and competitive modes. Of course I could always try that mod that makes you adhere to multiplayer build limits.
Force march shouldn't allow a retreat, that might even be a bug? Like that is settled law in Total War.
The new rule seems to be that armies in forced march can't reinforce or be reinforced, but can retreat to make up for it.
Untrue, as I have had armies force march explicitly to reinforce my other armies in a battle taking place that turn
So yeah, either a bug or a problem, either or
Thanks for correcting me! My friend passed me this information after I ended a campaign in frustration due to my faction leader getting widowed by to refusing to reinforce his wife's army right next to him
The best theory I've found while googling is that it might have been a night battle. Supposedly armies will neither reinforce or be reinforced during those.
One thing I'm appreciating about 3K is that high tier units feel valuable. I still really enjoy TWH, but I found the really expensive units were usually more about fun than tactical value (due to their high upkeep costs).
I really have to disagree, I’ve found the high tier units way too fragile to be worth the investment, especially in the late game and especially in comparison to Warhammer, where the really expensive stuff for certain factions felt damn near immortal (monsters and moops especially)
Maybe I’m just not used to old school historical Total War anymore but imperial units just should not lose health and die so easily!
Then again I think most units lose health a little too fast for my liking so maybe it’s just me
See but you don't have to repeatedly pay for them. They can't get sniped out and then you have to rebuy them. And the overall lethality of the combat is increased, so it feels appropriate.
The elite archers are worth it, at least Kong Rong's Fury of Beihai are. They're fucking monsters when they hit level 10.
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"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
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Oddly I have the opposite reaction.
I have no idea what's going on in my 3K battles, whereas I mostly felt in control of my Wahmmer ones and that my tactics mattered.
The overworld section is a lot better. I much prefer the one main settlement with resource node system, the ability to trade pieces of land to complete provinces is huge, always a massive bugbear of mine in the Warhammer version, plus all the other political features.
It’s not a very important country most of the time
http://steamcommunity.com/id/mortious
Its also nearly impossible to rearrange the unit cards. That's really getting on my nerves.
This is the only way I’ve found to do this and yes it is very annoying to my OCD brain
PSN ID : DetectiveOlivaw | TWITTER | STEAM ID | NEVER FORGET
"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
Mister "I'm too good for jokes that only rhyme" over here.
I might recruit Zhang Jiang anyway. Both since she's a boss and because Shi Hui is down to their last province (and I'm not their enemy!).
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
wow i'm not a smart duke
Streaming 8PST on weeknights
I think the Empire would greatly be improved by having an internal 3K court. Not that the other's wouldn't be improved by it too but the intrigue is already in the setting lore.
I would not get my hopes up that TW3 will be that much different from 1 or 2 though. I am willing to be positively surprised though.
I would like to see Oda Nobunaga's trait for rudeness be a real thing rather than the nothing of a diplomatic penalty it gives.
Couldn't get Ma Chao to join, to my great disappointment.
She survived
"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
Not sure what this means?
I'm not sure the name of the trait, but it has an effect of "desires independence while administrator". It's basically a next tier of desires a high position trait (there are many that have this).
It gives the character a random chance per turn to trigger an event that has them ask for independence. If you say no, they get a negative satisfaction modifier (-25?). If you say yes, they create a new faction out of the province they administer, but they are your vassal.
There seems to be no real cost for AI factions to break deals. I've given enemies generous tributes in the hope of just keeping them off my back for a while, only to have them rejoin the war the very next turn.
I keep dropping out of wars without the game really telling me why. I think it's generally because the enemy got vassalised by some other faction or entered a coalition, but it feels off.
Benny hill chases are still very much a thing, though slightly mitigated by war supplies. I frequently have to spend 5+ turns chasing a stack that just refuses to turn around and fight
I might just be missing something obvious, but I find it annoying that when a faction offers me peace or a non-aggression pact I can't see which other faction that deal includes. I've had to reload the game several times after realizing that the peace deal I just made with an obscure minor nation way in the north also peaced out my fiercest rival.
I'm enjoying the game overall though, and I'm slowly getting the hang of it. I'm currently nearing the end of my Yellow Turban playthrough, though the end is quite a slog. Basically the entire world has been at war with me for most of the game, and I need to grind my way to 95 regions to win despite having taken out all of the emperor seats.
There have been a few times where I felt like “haha I have them boxed in they can’t retreat now” and then I try to attack them and they just retreat through my other army standing next to them and boy howdy that’s not how that should work
PSN ID : DetectiveOlivaw | TWITTER | STEAM ID | NEVER FORGET
"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
The new rule seems to be that armies in forced march can't reinforce or be reinforced, but can retreat to make up for it.
Untrue, as I have had armies force march explicitly to reinforce my other armies in a battle taking place that turn
So yeah, either a bug or a problem, either or
PSN ID : DetectiveOlivaw | TWITTER | STEAM ID | NEVER FORGET
She got my lord pregnant.
This isn't explicitly explained anywhere (the strategist description mentions it but doesn't explain how it works), so don't worry that you missed it.
"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
Which is another strong argument against only using the cheap units, cuz formations can be quite nice, especially for holding the line
Archers and Sabre infantry also have a pretty big edge on their militia variants, but don't have much higher upkeep. Investing in the basic miltiary units is mostly a case of fronting that initial cost. The elite units though are best used sparingly unless you're just swimming in money. Which kind of fits what 3k armies looked like historically. In one campaign I think Cao Cao had 100,000+ troops, but less than 500 armored cavalry.
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
I really have to disagree, I’ve found the high tier units way too fragile to be worth the investment, especially in the late game and especially in comparison to Warhammer, where the really expensive stuff for certain factions felt damn near immortal (monsters and moops especially)
Maybe I’m just not used to old school historical Total War anymore but imperial units just should not lose health and die so easily!
Then again I think most units lose health a little too fast for my liking so maybe it’s just me
PSN ID : DetectiveOlivaw | TWITTER | STEAM ID | NEVER FORGET
Which I think is a fairly strong condemnation of the whole thing where they have the same balance for both campaign and competitive modes. Of course I could always try that mod that makes you adhere to multiplayer build limits.
Thanks for correcting me! My friend passed me this information after I ended a campaign in frustration due to my faction leader getting widowed by to refusing to reinforce his wife's army right next to him
The best theory I've found while googling is that it might have been a night battle. Supposedly armies will neither reinforce or be reinforced during those.
See but you don't have to repeatedly pay for them. They can't get sniped out and then you have to rebuy them. And the overall lethality of the combat is increased, so it feels appropriate.
"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".