Yeah, I don’t view Sony as any sort of sympathetic figure in this scenario.
I’d like to have Spider-Man in the MCU because he exists in the Marvel universe. Plus the reason why Sony is able to play hardball now is because the MCU/Sony partnership has greatly increased the value of live action Spider-Man movies.
There are no sympathetic figures. It's just two huge corporations jockeying for profits. Trying to put it into an "us vs. them" is exactly what the corps want. Don't play into their game. It's just a character, it's just movies. NBD.
Great, but to me it actually is somewhat of a big deal, in relative terms of course.
The MCU have pretty easily been, for me, the best, most consistently good quality media for me for quite literally a decade. I find their movies immensely rewatchable and I hope for that to continue.
Of course each side in this deliberation would like to be viewed in a positive light while the other side is looked upon negatively.
I couldn’t give a shit less about that. In my own, independently arrived upon opinion I feel the way I do. I don’t feel as if I’m playing anyone’s “game”.
+1
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OrcaAlso known as EspressosaurusWrexRegistered Userregular
Yeah, I don’t view Sony as any sort of sympathetic figure in this scenario.
I’d like to have Spider-Man in the MCU because he exists in the Marvel universe. Plus the reason why Sony is able to play hardball now is because the MCU/Sony partnership has greatly increased the value of live action Spider-Man movies.
There are no sympathetic figures. It's just two huge corporations jockeying for profits. Trying to put it into an "us vs. them" is exactly what the corps want. Don't play into their game. It's just a character, it's just movies. NBD.
Great, but to me it actually is somewhat of a big deal, in relative terms of course.
The MCU have pretty easily been, for me, the best, most consistently good quality media for me for quite literally a decade. I find their movies immensely rewatchable and I hope for that to continue.
Of course each side in this deliberation would like to be viewed in a positive light while the other side is looked upon negatively.
I couldn’t give a shit less about that. In my own, independently arrived upon opinion I feel the way I do. I don’t feel as if I’m playing anyone’s “game”.
It's about the framing. The metaphors we use shape our thinking and lead us into particular patterns of thought.
By personifying these two mega-corporations, we're now in the place where we can treat them like individuals. Marvel has done a lot of stuff we like, and we want them to keep making great movies with characters we love, so we're naturally sympathetic to them. Sony is the one holding fast on these contract negotiations and by doing so they're taking away a character we love. Clearly Sony is needs to get with the program so Marvel can keep making awesome movies with these characters!
By buying into that framing--that metaphor--we're playing their game, regardless of who we decide is in the right or wrong. Maybe Marvel is being greedy. Maybe Sony is being greedy. Spoiler alert, they're both greedy assholes.
Except no. Marvel wants a (much!) bigger piece of the profits. Sony doesn't want to give those up. Personification leads us into picking sides in what is ultimately two corporations that will dick each other but good for an extra billion dollars. We all want good characters and good stories, they all just want more money. There are no sympathetic characters; it's just giant faceless corporations jockeying for position, power, and most importantly, money.
edit: Consider the framing of pro-life (this is not an invitation to debate the subject!). Who would be against life? Everybody wants life. See how there are certain natural patterns of thought when we use that frame? For more reading on the subject, I highly recommend the books Metaphors We Live By and Don't Think of the Elephant. It's pretty eye-opening.
Yeah, I don’t view Sony as any sort of sympathetic figure in this scenario.
I’d like to have Spider-Man in the MCU because he exists in the Marvel universe. Plus the reason why Sony is able to play hardball now is because the MCU/Sony partnership has greatly increased the value of live action Spider-Man movies.
There are no sympathetic figures. It's just two huge corporations jockeying for profits. Trying to put it into an "us vs. them" is exactly what the corps want. Don't play into their game. It's just a character, it's just movies. NBD.
Great, but to me it actually is somewhat of a big deal, in relative terms of course.
The MCU have pretty easily been, for me, the best, most consistently good quality media for me for quite literally a decade. I find their movies immensely rewatchable and I hope for that to continue.
Of course each side in this deliberation would like to be viewed in a positive light while the other side is looked upon negatively.
I couldn’t give a shit less about that. In my own, independently arrived upon opinion I feel the way I do. I don’t feel as if I’m playing anyone’s “game”.
It's about the framing. The metaphors we use shape our thinking and lead us into particular patterns of thought.
By personifying these two mega-corporations, we're now in the place where we can treat them like individuals. Marvel has done a lot of stuff we like, and we want them to keep making great movies with characters we love, so we're naturally sympathetic to them. Sony is the one holding fast on these contract negotiations and by doing so they're taking away a character we love. Clearly Sony is needs to get with the program so Marvel can keep making awesome movies with these characters!
By buying into that framing--that metaphor--we're playing their game, regardless of who we decide is in the right or wrong. Maybe Marvel is being greedy. Maybe Sony is being greedy. Spoiler alert, they're both greedy assholes.
Except no. Marvel wants a (much!) bigger piece of the profits. Sony doesn't want to give those up. Personification leads us into picking sides in what is ultimately two corporations that will dick each other but good for an extra billion dollars. We all want good characters and good stories, they all just want more money. There are no sympathetic characters; it's just giant faceless corporations jockeying for position, power, and most importantly, money.
This would be way more persuasive if you didn't completely contradict yourself in the last paragraph. Humanizing the corporations is definitely a mistake but if you strip away the PR you have on company that can't survive aside from rent-seeking and one that took a bankrupt brand and reshaped their industry around it by producing content that folks wanted.
You can argue that MCU movies are the McDonald's of theater work but it's absurd to say that Sony is somehow better and not just making off brand Twinkies.
I think in most cases, at least I feel that it’s true for myself, but I don’t refer to these companies as “Marvel” and “Sony” to personify them.
I do it because I understand that they are both businesses with interests in making as much money as possible, and that they are both using any and all leverage available to them as negotiating tools, but it’s just easier to refer to them this way because it’s faster and people understand what is being discussed.
I get that these are two giant, faceless corporations that just want money. I just want good movies and I support the outcome that gives them to me.
Doom's motivation is just that he quietly ruled Latveria for decades, until the snap. Which proves that the "heroes" cannot be trusted to keep us safe. They are failures and incapable. The world, clearly, needs a new ruler. Someone to knows what he is doing, and can guide us into a new era.
Doom would have to have been snapped, or he'd have fixed the whole thing himself. Probably in less than five years.
Would Doom bother to "fix" The Blip if he were around? I don't see him getting emotional over a bunch of randos disappearing.
edit: now I think about it, I could totally see a story where Doom was blipped, something unfixable happens (maybe Latveria gets overrun since he's not there to protect it), and when Doom blips back and learns what happened, it's the catalyst that pushes him to acquire galactic power.
Doom's motivation is just that he quietly ruled Latveria for decades, until the snap. Which proves that the "heroes" cannot be trusted to keep us safe. They are failures and incapable. The world, clearly, needs a new ruler. Someone to knows what he is doing, and can guide us into a new era.
Doom would have to have been snapped, or he'd have fixed the whole thing himself. Probably in less than five years.
Would Doom bother to "fix" The Blip if he were around? I don't see him getting emotional over a bunch of randos disappearing.
Somebody murdering half of his nation is an affront to Doom's sovereignty and would not be tolerated.
Doom's motivation is just that he quietly ruled Latveria for decades, until the snap. Which proves that the "heroes" cannot be trusted to keep us safe. They are failures and incapable. The world, clearly, needs a new ruler. Someone to knows what he is doing, and can guide us into a new era.
Doom would have to have been snapped, or he'd have fixed the whole thing himself. Probably in less than five years.
Would Doom bother to "fix" The Blip if he were around? I don't see him getting emotional over a bunch of randos disappearing.
Somebody murdering half of his nation is an affront to Doom's sovereignty and would not be tolerated.
Those are his people. He has a duty to them, and (perhaps even more importantly) their lives are his.
Yeah, I don’t view Sony as any sort of sympathetic figure in this scenario.
I’d like to have Spider-Man in the MCU because he exists in the Marvel universe. Plus the reason why Sony is able to play hardball now is because the MCU/Sony partnership has greatly increased the value of live action Spider-Man movies.
There are no sympathetic figures. It's just two huge corporations jockeying for profits. Trying to put it into an "us vs. them" is exactly what the corps want. Don't play into their game. It's just a character, it's just movies. NBD.
Great, but to me it actually is somewhat of a big deal, in relative terms of course.
The MCU have pretty easily been, for me, the best, most consistently good quality media for me for quite literally a decade. I find their movies immensely rewatchable and I hope for that to continue.
Of course each side in this deliberation would like to be viewed in a positive light while the other side is looked upon negatively.
I couldn’t give a shit less about that. In my own, independently arrived upon opinion I feel the way I do. I don’t feel as if I’m playing anyone’s “game”.
It's about the framing. The metaphors we use shape our thinking and lead us into particular patterns of thought.
By personifying these two mega-corporations, we're now in the place where we can treat them like individuals. Marvel has done a lot of stuff we like, and we want them to keep making great movies with characters we love, so we're naturally sympathetic to them. Sony is the one holding fast on these contract negotiations and by doing so they're taking away a character we love. Clearly Sony is needs to get with the program so Marvel can keep making awesome movies with these characters!
By buying into that framing--that metaphor--we're playing their game, regardless of who we decide is in the right or wrong. Maybe Marvel is being greedy. Maybe Sony is being greedy. Spoiler alert, they're both greedy assholes.
Except no. Marvel wants a (much!) bigger piece of the profits. Sony doesn't want to give those up. Personification leads us into picking sides in what is ultimately two corporations that will dick each other but good for an extra billion dollars. We all want good characters and good stories, they all just want more money. There are no sympathetic characters; it's just giant faceless corporations jockeying for position, power, and most importantly, money.
edit: Consider the framing of pro-life (this is not an invitation to debate the subject!). Who would be against life? Everybody wants life. See how there are certain natural patterns of thought when we use that frame? For more reading on the subject, I highly recommend the books Metaphors We Live By and Don't Think of the Elephant. It's pretty eye-opening.
Uh, can we maybe not get preachy about someone just wanting good Spider-Man movies?
Doom's motivation is just that he quietly ruled Latveria for decades, until the snap. Which proves that the "heroes" cannot be trusted to keep us safe. They are failures and incapable. The world, clearly, needs a new ruler. Someone to knows what he is doing, and can guide us into a new era.
Doom would have to have been snapped, or he'd have fixed the whole thing himself. Probably in less than five years.
Would Doom bother to "fix" The Blip if he were around? I don't see him getting emotional over a bunch of randos disappearing.
Somebody murdering half of his nation is an affront to Doom's sovereignty and would not be tolerated.
Let's also not forget that Doom has been another on-again-off-again seeker of various artifacts of supreme power, and is particularly loathe to see others hold them.
In Infinity Gauntlet, while Adam Warlock and Silver Surfer were putting together a team to confront Thanos, Doom just showed up and declared himself the boss of everyone before proceeding to spend the entire fight trying to steal the gauntlet for himself.
Doom's motivation is just that he quietly ruled Latveria for decades, until the snap. Which proves that the "heroes" cannot be trusted to keep us safe. They are failures and incapable. The world, clearly, needs a new ruler. Someone to knows what he is doing, and can guide us into a new era.
Doom would have to have been snapped, or he'd have fixed the whole thing himself. Probably in less than five years.
Would Doom bother to "fix" The Blip if he were around? I don't see him getting emotional over a bunch of randos disappearing.
Somebody murdering half of his nation is an affront to Doom's sovereignty and would not be tolerated.
Oh man, that'd be a great setup for him. He was just chilling in Latveria till that fucking nonsense happened and now he's pissed and full blown Doctor Doom to make sure it never happens to his people again no matter who gets in his way.
+4
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-Loki-Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining.Registered Userregular
I decided to start from the beginning and watch the MCU all over. Iron Man 1 is still great.
Iron Man 2 still has the best War Machine action when he’s fighting back to back with Stark and I’m sad that’s still probably the best we will get. But that 30 seconds was amazing until Stark had to showboat and do his laser disco move.
I decided to start from the beginning and watch the MCU all over. Iron Man 1 is still great.
Iron Man 2 still has the best War Machine action when he’s fighting back to back with Stark and I’m sad that’s still probably the best we will get. But that 30 seconds was amazing until Stark had to showboat and do his laser disco move.
Mannnn, that's so much time worth of movies. 23ish movies?
Doom's motivation is just that he quietly ruled Latveria for decades, until the snap. Which proves that the "heroes" cannot be trusted to keep us safe. They are failures and incapable. The world, clearly, needs a new ruler. Someone to knows what he is doing, and can guide us into a new era.
Doom would have to have been snapped, or he'd have fixed the whole thing himself. Probably in less than five years.
Would Doom bother to "fix" The Blip if he were around? I don't see him getting emotional over a bunch of randos disappearing.
Somebody murdering half of his nation is an affront to Doom's sovereignty and would not be tolerated.
Oh man, that'd be a great setup for him. He was just chilling in Latveria till that fucking nonsense happened and now he's pissed and full blown Doctor Doom to make sure it never happens to his people again no matter who gets in his way.
I imagine he was probably already a bit concerned by what went down in Sokovia, and then this.
+4
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-Loki-Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining.Registered Userregular
I decided to start from the beginning and watch the MCU all over. Iron Man 1 is still great.
Iron Man 2 still has the best War Machine action when he’s fighting back to back with Stark and I’m sad that’s still probably the best we will get. But that 30 seconds was amazing until Stark had to showboat and do his laser disco move.
Mannnn, that's so much time worth of movies. 23ish movies?
I’m not doing a marathon, just whenever I watch a movie it’s going to be the next MCU film I’m up to.
I don’t care about Spider Man hanging out with other MCU characters as much as I just want good Spider Man movies.
And I do not trust the guy who made Galactus a cloud specifically because he hates robots and he kept thinking that Galactus was a robot despite writers telling him otherwise is a good choice to micromanage Spider Man films.
I don't know anything about Doctor Doom but someone once mentioned a comic where Dr. Doom and Dr. Strange go to hell to save the soul of Doom's mother.
This is obviously the best way to introduce the character into the MCU. You do a Doctor Strange movie, oh hey here's this sympathetic and cool character but also watch out he's got a bit of an edge to him, insert that "Doom does not ask" scene here.
I thought you were talking about spidey!
Looks like he's gonna web sling himself straight into her appartment building.
I mean... They did date for a while and long after he married MJ Black Cat being hung up on him was one of those background not-quite-stories that are always built into comics.
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cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
I thought you were talking about spidey!
Looks like he's gonna web sling himself straight into her appartment building.
I mean... They did date for a while and long after he married MJ Black Cat being hung up on him was one of those background not-quite-stories that are always built into comics.
There's also a great What If when he marries her instead because he thinks a fellow superhero would be safer with him.
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Brainiac 8Don't call me Shirley...Registered Userregular
I thought you were talking about spidey!
Looks like he's gonna web sling himself straight into her appartment building.
I mean... They did date for a while and long after he married MJ Black Cat being hung up on him was one of those background not-quite-stories that are always built into comics.
There's also a great What If when he marries her instead because he thinks a fellow superhero would be safer with him.
Was he right? I'm going to assume the answer is no.
You know what? Nanowrimo's cancelled on account of the world is stupid.
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cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
I thought you were talking about spidey!
Looks like he's gonna web sling himself straight into her appartment building.
I mean... They did date for a while and long after he married MJ Black Cat being hung up on him was one of those background not-quite-stories that are always built into comics.
There's also a great What If when he marries her instead because he thinks a fellow superhero would be safer with him.
Was he right? I'm going to assume the answer is no.
Posts
Wouldn't it be nice?
Great, but to me it actually is somewhat of a big deal, in relative terms of course.
The MCU have pretty easily been, for me, the best, most consistently good quality media for me for quite literally a decade. I find their movies immensely rewatchable and I hope for that to continue.
Of course each side in this deliberation would like to be viewed in a positive light while the other side is looked upon negatively.
I couldn’t give a shit less about that. In my own, independently arrived upon opinion I feel the way I do. I don’t feel as if I’m playing anyone’s “game”.
It's about the framing. The metaphors we use shape our thinking and lead us into particular patterns of thought.
By personifying these two mega-corporations, we're now in the place where we can treat them like individuals. Marvel has done a lot of stuff we like, and we want them to keep making great movies with characters we love, so we're naturally sympathetic to them. Sony is the one holding fast on these contract negotiations and by doing so they're taking away a character we love. Clearly Sony is needs to get with the program so Marvel can keep making awesome movies with these characters!
By buying into that framing--that metaphor--we're playing their game, regardless of who we decide is in the right or wrong. Maybe Marvel is being greedy. Maybe Sony is being greedy. Spoiler alert, they're both greedy assholes.
Except no. Marvel wants a (much!) bigger piece of the profits. Sony doesn't want to give those up. Personification leads us into picking sides in what is ultimately two corporations that will dick each other but good for an extra billion dollars. We all want good characters and good stories, they all just want more money. There are no sympathetic characters; it's just giant faceless corporations jockeying for position, power, and most importantly, money.
edit: Consider the framing of pro-life (this is not an invitation to debate the subject!). Who would be against life? Everybody wants life. See how there are certain natural patterns of thought when we use that frame? For more reading on the subject, I highly recommend the books Metaphors We Live By and Don't Think of the Elephant. It's pretty eye-opening.
This would be way more persuasive if you didn't completely contradict yourself in the last paragraph. Humanizing the corporations is definitely a mistake but if you strip away the PR you have on company that can't survive aside from rent-seeking and one that took a bankrupt brand and reshaped their industry around it by producing content that folks wanted.
You can argue that MCU movies are the McDonald's of theater work but it's absurd to say that Sony is somehow better and not just making off brand Twinkies.
I do it because I understand that they are both businesses with interests in making as much money as possible, and that they are both using any and all leverage available to them as negotiating tools, but it’s just easier to refer to them this way because it’s faster and people understand what is being discussed.
I get that these are two giant, faceless corporations that just want money. I just want good movies and I support the outcome that gives them to me.
Would Doom bother to "fix" The Blip if he were around? I don't see him getting emotional over a bunch of randos disappearing.
edit: now I think about it, I could totally see a story where Doom was blipped, something unfixable happens (maybe Latveria gets overrun since he's not there to protect it), and when Doom blips back and learns what happened, it's the catalyst that pushes him to acquire galactic power.
Somebody murdering half of his nation is an affront to Doom's sovereignty and would not be tolerated.
Those are his people. He has a duty to them, and (perhaps even more importantly) their lives are his.
Uh, can we maybe not get preachy about someone just wanting good Spider-Man movies?
Let's also not forget that Doom has been another on-again-off-again seeker of various artifacts of supreme power, and is particularly loathe to see others hold them.
In Infinity Gauntlet, while Adam Warlock and Silver Surfer were putting together a team to confront Thanos, Doom just showed up and declared himself the boss of everyone before proceeding to spend the entire fight trying to steal the gauntlet for himself.
Oh man, that'd be a great setup for him. He was just chilling in Latveria till that fucking nonsense happened and now he's pissed and full blown Doctor Doom to make sure it never happens to his people again no matter who gets in his way.
Iron Man 2 still has the best War Machine action when he’s fighting back to back with Stark and I’m sad that’s still probably the best we will get. But that 30 seconds was amazing until Stark had to showboat and do his laser disco move.
Mannnn, that's so much time worth of movies. 23ish movies?
I imagine he was probably already a bit concerned by what went down in Sokovia, and then this.
I’m not doing a marathon, just whenever I watch a movie it’s going to be the next MCU film I’m up to.
The average movie goer probably thinks Spider-man is going to team up with Batman in the sequel.
I'm pretty sure that's happened in the comics so, why not
Maybe then Venom can hang with the cool kids
Sony just dropping Spider-Man into the next Batman or Wonder Woman movie would certainly be a power move.
Though I doubt their film rights to the character are THAT comprehensive
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The real one.
“Yes.”
“In, and I’m quoting you here, ‘the dumbest and most awkward but still sexy way you can imagine’?”
“I really don’t understand what’s so confusing about my instructions...”
They're just using the time-honored tradition of tracing models out of porn mags.
Looks like he's gonna web sling himself straight into her appartment building.
Oh, is that what it's called these days?
*exasperated sigh*
Although if that were the case her weird pose would be understandable.
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And I do not trust the guy who made Galactus a cloud specifically because he hates robots and he kept thinking that Galactus was a robot despite writers telling him otherwise is a good choice to micromanage Spider Man films.
This is obviously the best way to introduce the character into the MCU. You do a Doctor Strange movie, oh hey here's this sympathetic and cool character but also watch out he's got a bit of an edge to him, insert that "Doom does not ask" scene here.
I mean... They did date for a while and long after he married MJ Black Cat being hung up on him was one of those background not-quite-stories that are always built into comics.
There's also a great What If when he marries her instead because he thinks a fellow superhero would be safer with him.
That doesn't look like Greg Land's art...
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Was he right? I'm going to assume the answer is no.
He was not.