yeah, just in as a listener is still good. you can always do a quick reply in team chat to something you hear.
Exactly! Literally all we needed that teammate to do was to play closer to the supports and peel for them. Instead he raged about how the team was split up (meaning he didn’t look around and just went where he wanted) and blamed us for not healing (of course we had died to flankers).
The dragons v fusion match really highlights how dps should fit into the overall strategy instead of cowboy carrying. The DF play is particularly interesting. Lots of pressure on immobile tanks (punching through shields) to force the tanks back and allow the dragons’ tanks to take space, eventually collapsing the fusion’s formation and creating opportunities.
The dragons v shock match really highlights how dps should fit into the overall strategy instead of cowboy carrying. The DF play is particularly interesting. Lots of pressure on immobile tanks (punching through shields) to force the tanks back and allow the dragons’ tanks to take space, eventually collapsing the shock’s formation and creating opportunities.
Fusion, not Shock.
But yes, Doomfist works with and against double barrier pretty well.
The dragons v shock match really highlights how dps should fit into the overall strategy instead of cowboy carrying. The DF play is particularly interesting. Lots of pressure on immobile tanks (punching through shields) to force the tanks back and allow the dragons’ tanks to take space, eventually collapsing the shock’s formation and creating opportunities.
Fusion, not Shock.
But yes, Doomfist works with and against double barrier pretty well.
Thanks, fixed.
it’s an interesting twist to see DF used so much to focus tanks. Sure, he still one shots squishies, but with space control at a premium, he is playing a different role.
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KasynI'm not saying I don't like our chances.She called me the master.Registered Userregular
I have returned to the game after a few seasons. It is still quite fun. Role queue was badly needed, and I'm thrilled about it. I am pleased to report that my Moira is still ridiculous and I will greatly enjoy finally living the dream of one-tricking her for a competitive season.
Additional thoughts: Sigma is really good. I can't think of a circumstance where I'd rather have a Reinh than Sigma at the moment. I think if they reduced the hitbox on his rock throw and brought the damage on his ult down a tiny bit, he'd be in a really good place, balance-wise.
The dragons v shock match really highlights how dps should fit into the overall strategy instead of cowboy carrying. The DF play is particularly interesting. Lots of pressure on immobile tanks (punching through shields) to force the tanks back and allow the dragons’ tanks to take space, eventually collapsing the shock’s formation and creating opportunities.
Fusion, not Shock.
But yes, Doomfist works with and against double barrier pretty well.
Thanks, fixed.
it’s an interesting twist to see DF used so much to focus tanks. Sure, he still one shots squishies, but with space control at a premium, he is playing a different role.
I liked the twist of using him to uppercut enemies into the air over the shields to get picked off.
+1
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
Thought I would play some Quickplay just as you know a last hooray before role queue comes in and because no mic for ranked.
My first game had 5 DPS players who all refused to switch and we didn't make it past the first spawn.
The dragons v shock match really highlights how dps should fit into the overall strategy instead of cowboy carrying. The DF play is particularly interesting. Lots of pressure on immobile tanks (punching through shields) to force the tanks back and allow the dragons’ tanks to take space, eventually collapsing the shock’s formation and creating opportunities.
Fusion, not Shock.
But yes, Doomfist works with and against double barrier pretty well.
Thanks, fixed.
it’s an interesting twist to see DF used so much to focus tanks. Sure, he still one shots squishies, but with space control at a premium, he is playing a different role.
I liked the twist of using him to uppercut enemies into the air over the shields to get picked off.
It takes coordination but man, it is cool to watch. While I don't love the shield meta, the adjustments made to combat it are proving to be pretty sweet.
There's one nerf I want to see for Mei and that's the complete removal of the freeze mechanic. Keep the slowing effect, but being frozen is anti-fun.
They would need to increase the width of cone and make it significantly decrease ROF for the enemy to make it a viable trade off.
It would need to become a significant damage tool, more like the TF2 Pyro.
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
I don't find Mei's freeze mechanic any more annoying than abilities which evade or cancel anything thrown their way. If we're going to get rid of her freeze, then we also should get rid of Tracer's rewind, Moira's shift, Reaper phasing, Zarya cancelling effects via bubble, Genji reflect, etc.
If her freezing is a problem, switch to any of the multitude of characters that have a way of coping with or evading it. Literally every class has at least a couple of characters that can engage her from outside freeze range, get out of her freeze spray range, or just ignore her freeze.
Mei might need a little adjusting in the new setup, but Sym and Reaper need adjusting immediately in comparison. Pretty tired of the nigh-immortal Reaper and Sym TP rushes right on top of points.
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The Escape Goatincorrigible ruminantthey/themRegistered Userregular
I don't find Mei's freeze mechanic any more annoying than abilities which evade or cancel anything thrown their way. If we're going to get rid of her freeze, then we also should get rid of Tracer's rewind, Moira's shift, Reaper phasing, Zarya cancelling effects via bubble, Genji reflect, etc.
If her freezing is a problem, switch to any of the multitude of characters that have a way of coping with or evading it. Literally every class has at least a couple of characters that can engage her from outside freeze range, get out of her freeze spray range, or just ignore her freeze.
This post is... baffling. The first sentence has to be talking about ice block, because of the comparisons being drawn, but the second one is about her primary fire?
Anyway, it's not a matter of balance. It's that it's fucking annoying and makes the game less fun. They could change her design where she's still good and has a nearly identical play pattern without making people stare at their broken keyboard.
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
edited August 2019
Mei's fine. She doesn't really didn't anything she hasn't always done and the only reason she is getting this much attention is because she works well against tanks and teams that like to be rooted in one spot(something she has always done).
I would say her biggest buff(no damage falloff) isn't even that big a deal because its probably the hardest shot in the game to land consistently.
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
I don't find Mei's freeze mechanic any more annoying than abilities which evade or cancel anything thrown their way. If we're going to get rid of her freeze, then we also should get rid of Tracer's rewind, Moira's shift, Reaper phasing, Zarya cancelling effects via bubble, Genji reflect, etc.
If her freezing is a problem, switch to any of the multitude of characters that have a way of coping with or evading it. Literally every class has at least a couple of characters that can engage her from outside freeze range, get out of her freeze spray range, or just ignore her freeze.
This post is... baffling. The first sentence has to be talking about ice block, because of the comparisons being drawn, but the second one is about her primary fire?
Anyway, it's not a matter of balance. It's that it's fucking annoying and makes the game less fun. They could change her design where she's still good and has a nearly identical play pattern without making people stare at their broken keyboard.
No? I was just talking about her freeze spray, which is no more aggravating to other players than dumping shots into Tracer and having them rewound away or Reaper being able to escape with 1 HP if he has phase handy. Those cancel the actions of other players just as much, and there's a ton of that in the game. I just think it's weird to pick out Mei's one type of removing player agency when there are like 8-10 other characters with some way to similarly remove player agency from their control.
I don't find Mei's freeze mechanic any more annoying than abilities which evade or cancel anything thrown their way. If we're going to get rid of her freeze, then we also should get rid of Tracer's rewind, Moira's shift, Reaper phasing, Zarya cancelling effects via bubble, Genji reflect, etc.
If her freezing is a problem, switch to any of the multitude of characters that have a way of coping with or evading it. Literally every class has at least a couple of characters that can engage her from outside freeze range, get out of her freeze spray range, or just ignore her freeze.
This post is... baffling. The first sentence has to be talking about ice block, because of the comparisons being drawn, but the second one is about her primary fire?
Anyway, it's not a matter of balance. It's that it's fucking annoying and makes the game less fun. They could change her design where she's still good and has a nearly identical play pattern without making people stare at their broken keyboard.
No? I was just talking about her freeze spray, which is no more aggravating to other players than dumping shots into Tracer and having them rewound away or Reaper being able to escape with 1 HP if he has phase handy. Those cancel the actions of other players just as much, and there's a ton of that in the game. I just think it's weird to pick out Mei's one type of removing player agency when there are like 8-10 other characters with some way to similarly remove player agency from their control.
I play a lot of Mystery Heroes, which means you get a lot of bad Meis who don't know the freeze+headshot combo. They just freeze you over and over and it's the most frustrating thing in the game. It isn't effective, but that really isn't the point.
Edit: You're acting like it's this objective thing and it really isn't. If being frozen doesn't bother you, that's great. I'm happy for you. I, however, hate it.
The Escape Goatincorrigible ruminantthey/themRegistered Userregular
edited August 2019
Freeze is several times longer than every stun short of shatter (an ult) and now a long-range Sigma direct (a dodgeable thing stopped by shields on a sizeable cooldown). That's why it's substantively different from other forms of removing player agency.
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TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
Freeze should be changed to adjust to the mass of a character. Freezes the skinnies faster than the fatties, helps keep Naruto and Tracer in check but lets Roadhog and Hammond laugh and make Mei cry.
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
I don't know how much that would matter. Most of the time with tanks Mei was just trying to freeze or slow them so her team could do the cleanup.
On the other hand that would make her even more effective against the targets that are susceptible to the freeze+headshot combo.
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
Freeze is several times longer than every stun short of shatter (an ult) and now a long-range Sigma direct (a dodgeable thing stopped by shields on a sizeable cooldown). That's why it's substantively different from other forms of removing player agency.
It also provides a long stretch for escaping or nullifying, as opposed to instant-effect sleep darts or flashbangs. The freeze spray also isn't at all likely to stop an ult, whereas all the other stun types can even if they don't last as long (except for sleep dart, which lasts way longer than freezing).
I'm not saying nobody should be annoyed by it, just that there's a pile of other status effect or status cancellation stuff which also remove player agency in ways just as obnoxious to other players. I have utterly no idea why THAT particular status attack would be the problem except for people who only play characters it's meant to counter strongly, in which case I would say it's just doing its job.
I play a lot of Mystery Heroes, which means you get a lot of bad Meis who don't know the freeze+headshot combo. They just freeze you over and over and it's the most frustrating thing in the game. It isn't effective, but that really isn't the point.
Edit: You're acting like it's this objective thing and it really isn't. If being frozen doesn't bother you, that's great. I'm happy for you. I, however, hate it.
Well, too bad? That's Mystery Heroes, which is obviously a uselessly terrible place to try and draw any worthwhile character balance conclusions from. I doubt Blizzard even glances at Mystery Heroes for character balance, and they shouldn't because that would be an awful idea.
Freeze is several times longer than every stun short of shatter (an ult) and now a long-range Sigma direct (a dodgeable thing stopped by shields on a sizeable cooldown). That's why it's substantively different from other forms of removing player agency.
It also provides a long stretch for escaping or nullifying, as opposed to instant-effect sleep darts or flashbangs. The freeze spray also isn't at all likely to stop an ult, whereas all the other stun types can even if they don't last as long (except for sleep dart, which lasts way longer than freezing).
I'm not saying nobody should be annoyed by it, just that there's a pile of other status effect or status cancellation stuff which also remove player agency in ways just as obnoxious to other players. I have utterly no idea why THAT particular status attack would be the problem except for people who only play characters it's meant to counter strongly, in which case I would say it's just doing its job.
I play a lot of Mystery Heroes, which means you get a lot of bad Meis who don't know the freeze+headshot combo. They just freeze you over and over and it's the most frustrating thing in the game. It isn't effective, but that really isn't the point.
Edit: You're acting like it's this objective thing and it really isn't. If being frozen doesn't bother you, that's great. I'm happy for you. I, however, hate it.
Well, too bad? That's Mystery Heroes, which is obviously a uselessly terrible place to try and draw any worthwhile character balance conclusions from. I doubt Blizzard even glances at Mystery Heroes for character balance, and they shouldn't because that would be an awful idea.
I think you really aren't getting what I'm saying here. My initial comment about removing Mei's freeze wasn't even entirely serious. It was along the same lines as "DELETE BRIG" and whatnot and I know Blizzard's never going to do it. My Mystery Heroes example was just that; an example. Personally, I think the whole freeze condition is terrible in every game mode. And, for the record, I flex like crazy (a big reason I like Mystery Heroes). I hate freeze no matter who I'm playing because it's free CC in a game with too much CC.
Monkey Ball WarriorA collection of mediocre hatsSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
edited September 2019
I'm a Mei main today because she annoyed me with her freeze-headshot combo back in the day. If you can't beat them, join them. She seems to be popular right now, so it is a good time to pick her up!
But I mean everyone has a combo like that now. I'm constantly oneshot by Doomfists and Widows, and if I win against McCree entirely depends on if I can bait his stun grenade with cryo or not.
Maybe everyone's CC does need to be nerfed, it does sound nice, but I don't think freeze in particular is way outside the risk/benefit curve that currently exists for CC.
Monkey Ball Warrior on
"I resent the entire notion of a body as an ante and then raise you a generalized dissatisfaction with physicality itself" -- Tycho
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
edited September 2019
The Freeze+Headshot isn't even why she is meta rn.
Its because her wall is so strong at cutting off lines of sight/paths and Blizzard is good against teams that like to stay clumped together with poor mobility options.
An interesting thing about medals and DF: often, as DF, you won’t have gold medals in damage or even kills. However, you will have the most impactful kills since they often open fights, creating snowball situations. Plus, since DF excels in burst rather than bulk damage (resulting in kill conversions from less overall damage than other dps require), your raw damage stats will often seem low.
Stupid teammates who put out bulk damage that results in few kills but feeds support ult charge often point to their damage medals (or elimination medals from hitting one bullet on an already dying target). Ignore that shit.
If you open fights with kills, create space for tanks, split opposing teams, and force the other team to burn cool downs, you’re doing fine.
same applies to sombra - so many times I get dunked on for having low dmg. no shit, sherlock: it's my hacks that are effectively making every team fight a 6 v 5-and-a-half so its possible for you to get your mighty kill count
So I haven't played since Season 12. Quite some time! I got back into it once Role Queue was announced and have been loving the crap out of comp. Today I had a team that just clicked. The game was a draw but I did manage to pull this off. Can't wait for the actual S18 to start.
if you can get good at separating healers from tanks with mei wall, you will win..period.
I'm going to thumbs up the scariest meis being those with good wall placement. the purest demonic use being walling off my escape as I frantically try to back-pedal so she can freeze and headshot me at her leisure. I probably wasn't going to escape at that range anyway, but the psychological impact of running into the wall is devastating. No escape.
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TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
Looks like QP now has role queue, with free loot boxes for tank and support, and QP Classic is now the big arcade highlight.
This is a pretty rocking update. I also managed to finish my tank and support placements and I'm where I usually am. I think this is the update that's brought me back.
TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
Playing the role queue on QP for a good 8 matches, three things stand out that are easy fixes:
-2/2/2 QP cannot survive if you do not bring the hammer down on leavers, even for QP it makes the game even more difficult if someone on your team drops first, especially on attack. One of the nice things the mode brought was people are actually trying to win, but when you add that with the dickheads who leave and taking away 2/3 of my ability to adapt you can't let them get away with running away.
-They have to introduce text and symbols at the map loading screen so I can prepare for what I'm playing when having all 3 queued up, you're losing valuable seconds being dropped into a game and you don't know what you got picked to play. You get dropped into Eichenwalde, show the picture screen with the music, and on top of it add "DPS/Tank/Support" and then if you're being dropped into a game have flashing letters and a jingle of some kind saying "GAME IN PROGRESS"
-They're doing that crappy thing of just not telling you if the teams have stacks or not now that was in the comp beta, this could easily be fixed with colored names instead of the connecting line. This is pretty ridiculous and you figure out if you're a team of solos against a stack pretty quickly, which makes you even more angry at the blatant hiding of the fact from you.
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Blizzard: Pailryder#1101
GoG: https://www.gog.com/u/pailryder
Exactly! Literally all we needed that teammate to do was to play closer to the supports and peel for them. Instead he raged about how the team was split up (meaning he didn’t look around and just went where he wanted) and blamed us for not healing (of course we had died to flankers).
Fusion, not Shock.
But yes, Doomfist works with and against double barrier pretty well.
Thanks, fixed.
it’s an interesting twist to see DF used so much to focus tanks. Sure, he still one shots squishies, but with space control at a premium, he is playing a different role.
Additional thoughts: Sigma is really good. I can't think of a circumstance where I'd rather have a Reinh than Sigma at the moment. I think if they reduced the hitbox on his rock throw and brought the damage on his ult down a tiny bit, he'd be in a really good place, balance-wise.
I liked the twist of using him to uppercut enemies into the air over the shields to get picked off.
My first game had 5 DPS players who all refused to switch and we didn't make it past the first spawn.
Yep...can't wait for Tuesday.
It takes coordination but man, it is cool to watch. While I don't love the shield meta, the adjustments made to combat it are proving to be pretty sweet.
I don't even care. It's so much fun to watch a good Doomfist go nuts.
undo the piercing primary and make her ult like 10% smaller
Steam: MightyPotatoKing
They would need to increase the width of cone and make it significantly decrease ROF for the enemy to make it a viable trade off.
It would need to become a significant damage tool, more like the TF2 Pyro.
If her freezing is a problem, switch to any of the multitude of characters that have a way of coping with or evading it. Literally every class has at least a couple of characters that can engage her from outside freeze range, get out of her freeze spray range, or just ignore her freeze.
Mei might need a little adjusting in the new setup, but Sym and Reaper need adjusting immediately in comparison. Pretty tired of the nigh-immortal Reaper and Sym TP rushes right on top of points.
This post is... baffling. The first sentence has to be talking about ice block, because of the comparisons being drawn, but the second one is about her primary fire?
Anyway, it's not a matter of balance. It's that it's fucking annoying and makes the game less fun. They could change her design where she's still good and has a nearly identical play pattern without making people stare at their broken keyboard.
I would say her biggest buff(no damage falloff) isn't even that big a deal because its probably the hardest shot in the game to land consistently.
No? I was just talking about her freeze spray, which is no more aggravating to other players than dumping shots into Tracer and having them rewound away or Reaper being able to escape with 1 HP if he has phase handy. Those cancel the actions of other players just as much, and there's a ton of that in the game. I just think it's weird to pick out Mei's one type of removing player agency when there are like 8-10 other characters with some way to similarly remove player agency from their control.
I play a lot of Mystery Heroes, which means you get a lot of bad Meis who don't know the freeze+headshot combo. They just freeze you over and over and it's the most frustrating thing in the game. It isn't effective, but that really isn't the point.
Edit: You're acting like it's this objective thing and it really isn't. If being frozen doesn't bother you, that's great. I'm happy for you. I, however, hate it.
Steam: MightyPotatoKing
On the other hand that would make her even more effective against the targets that are susceptible to the freeze+headshot combo.
It also provides a long stretch for escaping or nullifying, as opposed to instant-effect sleep darts or flashbangs. The freeze spray also isn't at all likely to stop an ult, whereas all the other stun types can even if they don't last as long (except for sleep dart, which lasts way longer than freezing).
I'm not saying nobody should be annoyed by it, just that there's a pile of other status effect or status cancellation stuff which also remove player agency in ways just as obnoxious to other players. I have utterly no idea why THAT particular status attack would be the problem except for people who only play characters it's meant to counter strongly, in which case I would say it's just doing its job.
Well, too bad? That's Mystery Heroes, which is obviously a uselessly terrible place to try and draw any worthwhile character balance conclusions from. I doubt Blizzard even glances at Mystery Heroes for character balance, and they shouldn't because that would be an awful idea.
I think you really aren't getting what I'm saying here. My initial comment about removing Mei's freeze wasn't even entirely serious. It was along the same lines as "DELETE BRIG" and whatnot and I know Blizzard's never going to do it. My Mystery Heroes example was just that; an example. Personally, I think the whole freeze condition is terrible in every game mode. And, for the record, I flex like crazy (a big reason I like Mystery Heroes). I hate freeze no matter who I'm playing because it's free CC in a game with too much CC.
Steam: MightyPotatoKing
He’s probably top 3 in the world. Role queue has not been implemented perfectly.
Is matchmaking broken?
edit: yeah, they disabled comp for now: https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/overwatch/t/disabled-competive/396243/5
But I mean everyone has a combo like that now. I'm constantly oneshot by Doomfists and Widows, and if I win against McCree entirely depends on if I can bait his stun grenade with cryo or not.
Maybe everyone's CC does need to be nerfed, it does sound nice, but I don't think freeze in particular is way outside the risk/benefit curve that currently exists for CC.
Its because her wall is so strong at cutting off lines of sight/paths and Blizzard is good against teams that like to stay clumped together with poor mobility options.
Blizzard: Pailryder#1101
GoG: https://www.gog.com/u/pailryder
Stupid teammates who put out bulk damage that results in few kills but feeds support ult charge often point to their damage medals (or elimination medals from hitting one bullet on an already dying target). Ignore that shit.
If you open fights with kills, create space for tanks, split opposing teams, and force the other team to burn cool downs, you’re doing fine.
Also the goop over shield+hook combo is diiiiirty. Finally paired with an Orisa who did that in a way I could convert on.
I'm going to thumbs up the scariest meis being those with good wall placement. the purest demonic use being walling off my escape as I frantically try to back-pedal so she can freeze and headshot me at her leisure. I probably wasn't going to escape at that range anyway, but the psychological impact of running into the wall is devastating. No escape.
So far. Lovin' this.
-2/2/2 QP cannot survive if you do not bring the hammer down on leavers, even for QP it makes the game even more difficult if someone on your team drops first, especially on attack. One of the nice things the mode brought was people are actually trying to win, but when you add that with the dickheads who leave and taking away 2/3 of my ability to adapt you can't let them get away with running away.
-They have to introduce text and symbols at the map loading screen so I can prepare for what I'm playing when having all 3 queued up, you're losing valuable seconds being dropped into a game and you don't know what you got picked to play. You get dropped into Eichenwalde, show the picture screen with the music, and on top of it add "DPS/Tank/Support" and then if you're being dropped into a game have flashing letters and a jingle of some kind saying "GAME IN PROGRESS"
-They're doing that crappy thing of just not telling you if the teams have stacks or not now that was in the comp beta, this could easily be fixed with colored names instead of the connecting line. This is pretty ridiculous and you figure out if you're a team of solos against a stack pretty quickly, which makes you even more angry at the blatant hiding of the fact from you.