I would tentatively suggest that these revelations at least give the seers a useful starting point -- someone to look at first. After the reports come in, the seer then has somewhere to go, and a potential ally, and a potential mouthpiece. If they turn out to be imposters, then the network would simply have to grow in the normal (ie random) fashion.
I'd argue caution, obviously, but at the very least it provides the seers with a focus, which might be more useful than simple randomness.
With the revealation of item holders not always seering (and only have a small chance of seering positive for items) this plan is suicide for the two normal sides. The best thing in the world for the holy stone holders is to be in the middle of the network laughing.
It sucks but we may only be able to trust specials if they're confirmed to not be able to be stone holders.
In the mean time, I !vote TehSpectre for death. The more I think about this idea the more it stinks. Normally I'd say you're just mistaken but you've proven more than capable to try and pull one over the entire population of the game.
So wait, Holy Stones are items then? I thought it was like a cultist faction skill thingy. Does that mean they are transfered after death like other items? If so that would really suck. We would forever be fighting 6 stone dudes, even if we killed them.
Edit: Wait, that wouldn't happen in a Phalla, because the Good guys wouldn't ever be able to win. Nevermind.
Zerinan on
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HakkekageSpace Whore Academysumma cum laudeRegistered Userregular
edited May 2007
There is a chance that cannot be ignored with these two people; they're both on the same side, and are trying to draw out specials from both to both form a network and kill the opposite side's chances. That, or they both have holy stones, and want to kill everyone who contacts them. Their banter may be like what I'd heard precisionk and some other guy did in a GnT phalla.
The fact of the matter is that they can't really be confirmed by anyone else by an oracle, which get their visions late; late enough that they may be totally useless (That is right, right, Hylianbunny? If an Oracle requests a vision on say, night 1, then they don't get the results until night 2?).
If that's the case, then it is probably to both sides' equal advantage that the specials remain under wraps while the Oracles do their stuff. I know the knight is leaving himself open for attack, but if he is well hidden, he probably won't be randomly sought out by a ninja, unless that ninja is VERY lucky.
This will probably be bad for the Holy Stones users no matter the situation.
1. If both TehSpectre and Infidel are telling the truth, then both sides will be forming networks by Night 3. Of course, Holy Stoners from their sides will be able to infiltrate the network; The Oracle will have some tough time seering anyone they see fit inside that network.
(Question--the Holy Stoners aren't all networked from the start, right? Because this could be the most fatal flaw of this entire idea.)
2. If TehSpectre and Infidel are on the same side...the truth is, I've typed out so many possible solutions for this, but damn. That is tough, and pretty shitty for the other side. I'm not certain how this would play out for the Holy Stoners. Ok, count this one as Super Fatal Flaw 2: The Fatalling.
3. The BEST CASE scenario, really, is if the bastards are both Holy Stoners. Both factions hate the Holy Stoners, and so the vote and ninjas can be used to kick their asses from here to Tijuana. The Oracles may have to out themselves to pass this information on, of course; This is fatal flaw 3.
However, I'm ignoring the idea that shit will be going down between now and night 2. Shit probably will be going down. That's the nature of Phalla. This is all I can think to do at present, with the cards that have been dealt to us.
I'm with a bunch of you guys who advocate bringing down the Holy Stoners first. Those bastards.
PS: Moogle suffrage is a progressive movement, kupo-po! It all started in Ivalica Falls, New Rabanastre, with Ekupobeth Cady Kupoton and others.
Also: "How many moogles does it take to change a lightbulb?" If you answer "None, moogles can't change anything," you might find certain important components of your airship no longer serviceable, pigs.
Hakkekage on
3DS: 2165 - 6538 - 3417
NNID: Hakkekage
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cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
edited May 2007
I'd like to see a chocobo try to maintain an airship.
Also, do the Stone users get additional kills? I don't recall seeing anything on that, but I imagine they do.
Even if an oracle does come out and seer one of these men.
Who's to say that the oracle, is an oracle and not a charlatan?
We would need someone to seer the oracle, but whose to say the oracle who oracled the oracle is an oracle themselves?
And say the supposed oracle is surely an oracle, then they must be protected by a knight post-haste or surely the other side will snuff them out!
Does this not seem like a trick put out by the holders of stones? If oracles come forth and are not gaurded then both sides have an eye put out, and the stone holders can roam free. If we gaurd our oracles we expose our knights, and once removed another shot can be made directly at our eyes.
And for that I !vote TehSpectre for death
TehSpectre is the one who revealed himself first. Making him most likely the one to have concoted the whole plan. Infidel himself might too be a stone holder, or he could prehaps just be a man who followed in TehSpectre's footsteps, trying to level the playing field without realizing he might just be worsening everyone's chance at survival.
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cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
edited May 2007
TehSpectre could be on either side, so I don't think he's one to kill off yet.
For now, I'll stay with my first promise. Death to Orlandu.
It's fully possible TehSpectre merely means well. And, if he can prove such I will gladly retract my vote for him.
But for now his plan seems to have more holes than a peasent's robes!
I don't think tehspectre is a zodiac stoner, more likely he is just a normal member of one of the two knight groups. He did the same exact thing in the vampire phalla when he was a vanilla villager (in other words try his best to place himself in the center of the network), of course in vampire he was killed on day 1.
Lacking any real leads on day one, I'm tempted to vote for one of them as well, I just can't decide whether it should be the one on my team (if I believe the "enemy player pretending to be on my team" hypothesis) or the one on the other team (if I believe the "he may well be just what he says" hypothesis).
Luckily we have until Monday night before voting closes. People will keep babbling on and hopefully someone slips.
With the revealation of item holders not always seering (and only have a small chance of seering positive for items) this plan is suicide for the two normal sides.
It would be great if major revelations like this were edited into the OP as well. I was blissfully unaware of this rule until I saw DA's post, even though it has major impact on the game and the ongoing insta-network debate.
In this light, the seers are very useful in the team vs. team game, but of very limited use in finding the holy stone people (stoners?), and secure networks can only include specials until the stones on that particular team have been found. It would follow that the specials should concentrate on staying alive and finding each other rather than take their chances with either of the wannabe mouthpieces.
It would seem to me that TehSpectre feels that he has something to gain by revealing this. Perhaps he really does just wish to live beyond day one. I am far more suspicious of Infidel, as he does not possess the same motivation as TehSpectre. I don't mind killing him to see if he's bluffing or not. I !vote for Infidel to be executed.
Tabasco on
Life is too important to be taken seriously.
-Oscar Wilde
With the revealation of item holders not always seering (and only have a small chance of seering positive for items) this plan is suicide for the two normal sides.
It would be great if major revelations like this were edited into the OP as well. I was blissfully unaware of this rule until I saw DA's post, even though it has major impact on the game and the ongoing insta-network debate.
In this light, the seers are very useful in the team vs. team game, but of very limited use in finding the holy stone people (stoners?), and secure networks can only include specials until the stones on that particular team have been found. It would follow that the specials should concentrate on staying alive and finding each other rather than take their chances with either of the wannabe mouthpieces.
I take it to mean you only have a chance to seer the 4 item holders. I'm assuming the zodiac braves are roles, since the stones (I'm assuming) do not transfer once a zodiac brave dies. That's my current assumption.
To the Orlandu's of the group. You should vote something like: !I Dark Sword XXXXX.
Then again, if we are doing some roleplaying, I could either accuse or shoot my voting target of the night heh.
So TehSpectre is claiming to be part of Larg's faction and Infidel part of Goltana's. If only a few people vote for them, that puts danger on the voters, and they stand a good chance of being targeted by Ninjas and Holy Stone wielders. If a majority of players vote for the two candidates, we end up with two factions that could contain some spies, but probably will include members of the opposing faction as its majority members. I'd prefer it if the Ninjas took the time to dispatch TehSpectre and Infidel, while we look for a third character as our vote tonight. I somehow can't trust myself voting for either of the two at this point. What a bind.
EDIT: Might as well put up the spreadsheet with the current vote tally: Current Spreadsheet (as of post 147)
You can't trust a chocobo, this has been proven true since ancient times. They always serve the side with the most greens.
Moogles are slightly more rational.
What, you'd trust Gafgarion over a chocobo, WARK? :P
You just have to be on the side with more greens...and more greens, if you know what I mean, and I think you do :winky:
I guess each side has an equal amount of specials, so my deduction, jdarksun is the opposite chocobo of me
But still, TehSpectre seems like he is totally grasping at straws in an effort to survive. Gain the trust of the people, and he can secretly kill them off one by one...
My chocobo sense is tingling. I !vote TehSpectre to death!
It could that tehspectre is grasping at straws to survive because pretty much everyone vowed to kill him after CoP, but still his actions could certainly speak to being a stone holder. You would think he would have learned after V:tM not to jump out day one and say "I'm a normal villager but I should TOTALLY be the center of the network".
How else was I supposed to survive day one people?
I had this plan ready even before the game started and I shared it with Ardor for what it's worth.
I just want to live and figured me chances were pretty low unless I threw out some kind of gambit. I do appreciate the people not voting for me however.
I did this in VtM and was killed for it, don't do this to me again folks. I already have a decent spreadsheet, with a few other Larg-ers having contacted me. I cannot prove them for the moment, but I am pretty sure that they are on the level. Then again, this happened to me day 1 of the VtM phalla as well.
How else was I supposed to survive day one people?
I had this plan ready even before the game started and I shared it with Ardor for what it's worth.
I just want to live and figured me chances were pretty low unless I threw out some kind of gambit. I do appreciate the people not voting for me however.
I did this in VtM and was killed for it, don't do this to me again folks. I already have a decent spreadsheet, with a few other Larg-ers having contacted me. I cannot prove them for the moment, but I am pretty sure that they are on the level. Then again, this happened to me day 1 of the VtM phalla as well.
Don't kill me guys, I wanna plaaaaay!
Blame yourself... or God.
I'm going to point out that their wasn't a bandwagon on you this game until you did something very stupid. Sure, we disagree about it being stupid but if it keeps getting you killed and you don't want to die, then doing the same thing and expecting different results is fairly stupid.
While I do think that if TS was a baddie, we would have to kill him asap... but if we're going to find all these stoners we're going to need to have people like him. I don't see what the harm is on seering him night 1... if he's being honest, then we know that we can rely on him to find the holy stoners with us. If he's a holy stoner, he dies night 2.. no harm no foul.
What you're missing, Grundl, is that seering has only a set, unknown chance of revealing whether someone has an item or not. Therefore, even if TehSpectre is seered as a follower of Larg, he still can't be trusted, because that will let the stoners kill a seer.
Grundl have you just missed the fact that seering doesn't always reveal stones or are you trying to keep people misinformed?
I was under the impression that stoners would seer as stoners? Sorry if I missed that... if theres no way to seer the stoners, we just might have to kill off the better players right away and just hope for the best. This is going to be a very interesting phalla indeed.
All of this talk of stones and stoners makes me really tempted to make a lot of bad jokes. I don't have anything to contribute, just thought I'd mention that.
I still don't know where that was said. I thought stoners were a role, so they would be seered as stoners, just like ninjas or knights. I thought the item comment was just talking about the 4 items that are given randomly. I don't believe it says that in the OP, but if it does, I'll gladly shut up.
Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but it says there's only a set chance they will see an item. But the stones don't work like regular items do, has it been explicitley stated this is the case or are we simply assuming by lumping the stones in with the other items?
HylianBunny: Is it possible to be both a special and a stone holder? Could the seer have been given a stone? Can the Ninja (initial or a replacement one) be a stone holder?
If the answer to the above is no (well except for the ninja bit) then each family could put together a smallish network with 100% certainty. Though that's going to be a bitch to manage without being eaten by stone holders.
So items get transferred on death right? But we've determined that it would be pretty much impossible for us to win if stones were transferred on death... so maybe the stones aren't considered a normal item?
Posts
Groovy.
With the revealation of item holders not always seering (and only have a small chance of seering positive for items) this plan is suicide for the two normal sides. The best thing in the world for the holy stone holders is to be in the middle of the network laughing.
It sucks but we may only be able to trust specials if they're confirmed to not be able to be stone holders.
In the mean time, I !vote TehSpectre for death. The more I think about this idea the more it stinks. Normally I'd say you're just mistaken but you've proven more than capable to try and pull one over the entire population of the game.
Fool me once....
Edit: Wait, that wouldn't happen in a Phalla, because the Good guys wouldn't ever be able to win. Nevermind.
The fact of the matter is that they can't really be confirmed by anyone else by an oracle, which get their visions late; late enough that they may be totally useless (That is right, right, Hylianbunny? If an Oracle requests a vision on say, night 1, then they don't get the results until night 2?).
If that's the case, then it is probably to both sides' equal advantage that the specials remain under wraps while the Oracles do their stuff. I know the knight is leaving himself open for attack, but if he is well hidden, he probably won't be randomly sought out by a ninja, unless that ninja is VERY lucky.
This will probably be bad for the Holy Stones users no matter the situation.
1. If both TehSpectre and Infidel are telling the truth, then both sides will be forming networks by Night 3. Of course, Holy Stoners from their sides will be able to infiltrate the network; The Oracle will have some tough time seering anyone they see fit inside that network.
(Question--the Holy Stoners aren't all networked from the start, right? Because this could be the most fatal flaw of this entire idea.)
2. If TehSpectre and Infidel are on the same side...the truth is, I've typed out so many possible solutions for this, but damn. That is tough, and pretty shitty for the other side. I'm not certain how this would play out for the Holy Stoners. Ok, count this one as Super Fatal Flaw 2: The Fatalling.
3. The BEST CASE scenario, really, is if the bastards are both Holy Stoners. Both factions hate the Holy Stoners, and so the vote and ninjas can be used to kick their asses from here to Tijuana. The Oracles may have to out themselves to pass this information on, of course; This is fatal flaw 3.
However, I'm ignoring the idea that shit will be going down between now and night 2. Shit probably will be going down. That's the nature of Phalla. This is all I can think to do at present, with the cards that have been dealt to us.
I'm with a bunch of you guys who advocate bringing down the Holy Stoners first. Those bastards.
PS: Moogle suffrage is a progressive movement, kupo-po! It all started in Ivalica Falls, New Rabanastre, with Ekupobeth Cady Kupoton and others.
Also: "How many moogles does it take to change a lightbulb?" If you answer "None, moogles can't change anything," you might find certain important components of your airship no longer serviceable, pigs.
NNID: Hakkekage
Also, do the Stone users get additional kills? I don't recall seeing anything on that, but I imagine they do.
The Stone users have their own kill list, like the aliens in VtP or the Sabbat in your own game.
Who's to say that the oracle, is an oracle and not a charlatan?
We would need someone to seer the oracle, but whose to say the oracle who oracled the oracle is an oracle themselves?
And say the supposed oracle is surely an oracle, then they must be protected by a knight post-haste or surely the other side will snuff them out!
Does this not seem like a trick put out by the holders of stones? If oracles come forth and are not gaurded then both sides have an eye put out, and the stone holders can roam free. If we gaurd our oracles we expose our knights, and once removed another shot can be made directly at our eyes.
And for that I !vote TehSpectre for death
TehSpectre is the one who revealed himself first. Making him most likely the one to have concoted the whole plan. Infidel himself might too be a stone holder, or he could prehaps just be a man who followed in TehSpectre's footsteps, trying to level the playing field without realizing he might just be worsening everyone's chance at survival.
For now, I'll stay with my first promise. Death to Orlandu.
!vote robothero
(He was the first.)
But for now his plan seems to have more holes than a peasent's robes!
I don't think tehspectre is a zodiac stoner, more likely he is just a normal member of one of the two knight groups. He did the same exact thing in the vampire phalla when he was a vanilla villager (in other words try his best to place himself in the center of the network), of course in vampire he was killed on day 1.
I won't be around until 10pm EST. No, it's not a strategy to avoid posting.
After this post, tonight, I'll be nothing but a roleplaying emo-Wiegraf.
Oh, you have to die, !vote shamus the giovanni
Honestly the first day doesn't end until tomorrow night, so no hurry.
The vote doesn't actually end until monday night, we just have an extra day to accuse people.
An extra day to grope blindly and hope we stumble upon a zodiac stoner
The fool, or the fool who follows ...
I !retract my vote for TehSpectre to be executed.
and
I !vote for Infidel to be executed.
Hell dycedarg is by far the biggest bastard in a game full of them, so there are plenty enough reasons for him to die as it is.
edit: Maybe delita is the biggest bastard, oh well dycedarg is second then
Orlandu has spoken: !vote cj iwakura (for now)
Luckily we have until Monday night before voting closes. People will keep babbling on and hopefully someone slips.
It would be great if major revelations like this were edited into the OP as well. I was blissfully unaware of this rule until I saw DA's post, even though it has major impact on the game and the ongoing insta-network debate.
In this light, the seers are very useful in the team vs. team game, but of very limited use in finding the holy stone people (stoners?), and secure networks can only include specials until the stones on that particular team have been found. It would follow that the specials should concentrate on staying alive and finding each other rather than take their chances with either of the wannabe mouthpieces.
-Oscar Wilde
I take it to mean you only have a chance to seer the 4 item holders. I'm assuming the zodiac braves are roles, since the stones (I'm assuming) do not transfer once a zodiac brave dies. That's my current assumption.
To the Orlandu's of the group. You should vote something like: !I Dark Sword XXXXX.
Then again, if we are doing some roleplaying, I could either accuse or shoot my voting target of the night heh.
EDIT: Might as well put up the spreadsheet with the current vote tally: Current Spreadsheet (as of post 147)
You just have to be on the side with more greens...and more greens, if you know what I mean, and I think you do :winky:
I guess each side has an equal amount of specials, so my deduction, jdarksun is the opposite chocobo of me
But still, TehSpectre seems like he is totally grasping at straws in an effort to survive. Gain the trust of the people, and he can secretly kill them off one by one...
My chocobo sense is tingling. I !vote TehSpectre to death!
Always wanted a mount. 6-7 movement beats the 3 I get anyways.
I !Summon Ifrit to eat tehspectre
I had this plan ready even before the game started and I shared it with Ardor for what it's worth.
I just want to live and figured me chances were pretty low unless I threw out some kind of gambit. I do appreciate the people not voting for me however.
I did this in VtM and was killed for it, don't do this to me again folks. I already have a decent spreadsheet, with a few other Larg-ers having contacted me. I cannot prove them for the moment, but I am pretty sure that they are on the level. Then again, this happened to me day 1 of the VtM phalla as well.
Don't kill me guys, I wanna plaaaaay!
...
:P
Blame yourself... or God.
I'm going to point out that their wasn't a bandwagon on you this game until you did something very stupid. Sure, we disagree about it being stupid but if it keeps getting you killed and you don't want to die, then doing the same thing and expecting different results is fairly stupid.
I was under the impression that stoners would seer as stoners? Sorry if I missed that... if theres no way to seer the stoners, we just might have to kill off the better players right away and just hope for the best. This is going to be a very interesting phalla indeed.
If the answer to the above is no (well except for the ninja bit) then each family could put together a smallish network with 100% certainty. Though that's going to be a bitch to manage without being eaten by stone holders.