Ehhhhhhhh. I'm not totally against Congress using that power, but every other option besides arrest needs to be tried first. It's important for the the opinions of the public and the courts to be on our side, and going straight to cuffs, while morally and legally justified IMO, will not achieve that.
Ehhhhhhhh. I'm not totally against Congress using that power, but every other option besides arrest needs to be tried first. It's important for the the opinions of the public and the courts to be on our side, and going straight to cuffs, while morally and legally justified IMO, will not achieve that.
asking them and ordering them is every other option
Ehhhhhhhh. I'm not totally against Congress using that power, but every other option besides arrest needs to be tried first. It's important for the the opinions of the public and the courts to be on our side, and going straight to cuffs, while morally and legally justified IMO, will not achieve that.
asking them and ordering them is every other option
You can start by slapping them with fines first though.
Ehhhhhhhh. I'm not totally against Congress using that power, but every other option besides arrest needs to be tried first. It's important for the the opinions of the public and the courts to be on our side, and going straight to cuffs, while morally and legally justified IMO, will not achieve that.
asking them and ordering them is every other option
You can start by slapping them with fines first though.
I'd agree if they weren't being bankrolled by the gop
Is there a limit to the fines? I imagine if it's high enough daily, it'll grab their attention. They are all about $$$ afterall.
There's definitely a line the courts would say no at, but I don't know if anything's codified. It's supposed to scale with who's being fined I think, as the point is to make ignoring it hurt? IANAL, so...
Ehhhhhhhh. I'm not totally against Congress using that power, but every other option besides arrest needs to be tried first. It's important for the the opinions of the public and the courts to be on our side, and going straight to cuffs, while morally and legally justified IMO, will not achieve that.
asking them and ordering them is every other option
You can start by slapping them with fines first though.
I'd agree if they weren't being bankrolled by the gop
they could be fined forever and shrug it off
We know that, but gen pop doesn't, and we need to pretend like we don't know it for the sake of the courts.
Note I'm not certain this or any other tactic is best. This situation is genuinely unprecedented so who can say what is best.
Speaking of subpoenas, with everything going on this story has been lost in the mix today. The finance editor of the New York Times is reporting that at some point Deutsche Bank destroyed their copies of Trump’s tax returns.
Speaking of subpoenas, with everything going on this story has been lost in the mix today. The finance editor of the New York Times is reporting that at some point Deutsche Bank destroyed their copies of Trump’s tax returns.
This is not normal procedure and apparently can only be done at the account holder’s request.
It means Trump asked / demanded that they do this, and it means the IRS now hold the only copies. Unless those too have been destroyed.
Most of the tax return push has been against Mazers, not Deutsche Bank. It's still a big deal, and if it happened after the legal battle began seems like an enormous problem.
Ehhhhhhhh. I'm not totally against Congress using that power, but every other option besides arrest needs to be tried first. It's important for the the opinions of the public and the courts to be on our side, and going straight to cuffs, while morally and legally justified IMO, will not achieve that.
asking them and ordering them is every other option
You can start by slapping them with fines first though.
I'd agree if they weren't being bankrolled by the gop
they could be fined forever and shrug it off
I could def see them doing the calculus to see how much they think fines will cost them vs how long this will take, and if they can afford to hold out long enough then it'd be worth biting the bullet if it results in a 'win'. Maybe let a few little fish go but protect the main school, that sort of thing.
I don't think one can overestimate the stakes here; the GOP wants total control and this is the closest they've come yet. A hit to the budget, even a big one, is probably still worth it. The silver lining is so many of these guys are selfish, greedy, and stupid so playing that kind of ball is a big ask.
Ehhhhhhhh. I'm not totally against Congress using that power, but every other option besides arrest needs to be tried first. It's important for the the opinions of the public and the courts to be on our side, and going straight to cuffs, while morally and legally justified IMO, will not achieve that.
asking them and ordering them is every other option
Also I don't see why they shouldn't receive the same penalties for ignoring a subpoena that I would if I responded to one by saying I didn't recognize the authority of whoever issued it.
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BrodyThe WatchThe First ShoreRegistered Userregular
Ehhhhhhhh. I'm not totally against Congress using that power, but every other option besides arrest needs to be tried first. It's important for the the opinions of the public and the courts to be on our side, and going straight to cuffs, while morally and legally justified IMO, will not achieve that.
asking them and ordering them is every other option
You can start by slapping them with fines first though.
I'd agree if they weren't being bankrolled by the gop
they could be fined forever and shrug it off
We discussed this wrt Manafort, I think, or at least one of the other cases in all of this. Fines can be pretty coercive, as a lot of people may be worth a lot but have a significant portion of that money tied up in assets, so when you start draining their liquid funds, it still has the possibility to really apply pressure. As for being bankrolled by the GOP, I'd almost consider that an additional positive here, draining potential campaign funds.
"I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."
Ehhhhhhhh. I'm not totally against Congress using that power, but every other option besides arrest needs to be tried first. It's important for the the opinions of the public and the courts to be on our side, and going straight to cuffs, while morally and legally justified IMO, will not achieve that.
asking them and ordering them is every other option
You can start by slapping them with fines first though.
I'd agree if they weren't being bankrolled by the gop
they could be fined forever and shrug it off
We discussed this wrt Manafort, I think, or at least one of the other cases in all of this. Fines can be pretty coercive, as a lot of people may be worth a lot but have a significant portion of that money tied up in assets, so when you start draining their liquid funds, it still has the possibility to really apply pressure. As for being bankrolled by the GOP, I'd almost consider that an additional positive here, draining potential campaign funds.
This is a key distinction that even I myself forget sometimes. For the wealthy a much larger percentage of their money is in assets as compared to the working class. Start taking their liquid cash and they may need to sell off some of those assets to afford their lifestyle. That's a pressure point worth hitting.
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ElJeffeRoaming the streets, waving his mod gun around.Moderator, ClubPAMod Emeritus
Would it be legal for someone to just open up a kickstarter for the express purpose of paying all fines incurred by violating subpoenas?
Because that is absolutely the sort of thing I can see these fuckos trying to do, and there are probably enough dipshits in this country to pay in.
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KoopahTroopahThe koopas, the troopas.Philadelphia, PARegistered Userregular
Geth, ban ElJeffe for giving this administration ideas.
Would it be legal for someone to just open up a kickstarter for the express purpose of paying all fines incurred by violating subpoenas?
Because that is absolutely the sort of thing I can see these fuckos trying to do, and there are probably enough dipshits in this country to pay in.
What ever happened to that "pay for the wall" GoFundMe? I'm sure everyone who pledged would gladly allow the money to be switched to "Trump cabinet defense fund."
Peace to fashion police, I wear my heart
On my sleeve, let the runway start
Would it be legal for someone to just open up a kickstarter for the express purpose of paying all fines incurred by violating subpoenas?
Because that is absolutely the sort of thing I can see these fuckos trying to do, and there are probably enough dipshits in this country to pay in.
Thus sounded silly to me at first, but then I remembered Roger Stone. His legal defense fund easily met it's goal of $100,000. If Stone was able to get that with little effort, someone high profile like Giuliani could rake it in.
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AstaerethIn the belly of the beastRegistered Userregular
They need to impose one of those Yonkers fines that doubles every day until they testify.
Before you say, "Josh, we already knew that", this is a different time. I'm saying this is the second time it's happened now.
The White House accidentally sent Democrats a list of talking points related to ex-Ukraine Ambassador Marie Yovanovitch's Friday House deposition, two sources with knowledge of the email told The Hill, the second time in a month the administration has sent its Ukraine talking points to Democrats.
The email included guidance for Republicans seeking to defend the president from potentially damaging witness testimony from an ambassador who was removed from her post in May under controversial circumstances.
In copies of the guidance shared with The Hill, The White House encouraged Republicans to adopt a series of messages designed to turn the tables back on Democrats, including attacks on House Intelligence Committee Chairman Adam Schiff's (D-Calif.) handling of the probe.
It hasn't even been a month since the last time they made this mistake.
Would it be legal for someone to just open up a kickstarter for the express purpose of paying all fines incurred by violating subpoenas?
Because that is absolutely the sort of thing I can see these fuckos trying to do, and there are probably enough dipshits in this country to pay in.
If history is any indication it will 100% work, but only for like the first person who jumps on the idea. The first guy gets all the attention and thus all the money. The next bunch get forgotten.
It's weird how nobody noticed we are in that one "The Day the Earth Stood Stupid" episode of Futurama, but instead of jumping into a bunch of classic literature we collectively jumped into an Onion article printout.
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ShadowfireVermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered Userregular
So we're pretty sure now that Fox and Murdoch are doubling down on Trump. Definitely seems like the entire Republican apparatus is compromised and they're circling the wagons.
}
"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
Would it be legal for someone to just open up a kickstarter for the express purpose of paying all fines incurred by violating subpoenas?
Because that is absolutely the sort of thing I can see these fuckos trying to do, and there are probably enough dipshits in this country to pay in.
What ever happened to that "pay for the wall" GoFundMe? I'm sure everyone who pledged would gladly allow the money to be switched to "Trump cabinet defense fund."
The guy who launched that wound up pocketing it. Last I heard (a few months ago) the criminal investigation was still ongoing.
So we're pretty sure now that Fox and Murdoch are doubling down on Trump. Definitely seems like the entire Republican apparatus is compromised and they're circling the wagons.
If trumptv launches, fox news will cease to have a reason to exist
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Ehhhhhhhh. I'm not totally against Congress using that power, but every other option besides arrest needs to be tried first. It's important for the the opinions of the public and the courts to be on our side, and going straight to cuffs, while morally and legally justified IMO, will not achieve that.
asking them and ordering them is every other option
You can start by slapping them with fines first though.
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I'd agree if they weren't being bankrolled by the gop
they could be fined forever and shrug it off
There's definitely a line the courts would say no at, but I don't know if anything's codified. It's supposed to scale with who's being fined I think, as the point is to make ignoring it hurt? IANAL, so...
3DS: 0473-8507-2652
Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
PSN: AbEntropy
We know that, but gen pop doesn't, and we need to pretend like we don't know it for the sake of the courts.
Note I'm not certain this or any other tactic is best. This situation is genuinely unprecedented so who can say what is best.
This is not normal procedure and apparently can only be done at the account holder’s request.
It means Trump asked / demanded that they do this, and it means the IRS now hold the only copies. Unless those too have been destroyed.
Most of the tax return push has been against Mazers, not Deutsche Bank. It's still a big deal, and if it happened after the legal battle began seems like an enormous problem.
I could def see them doing the calculus to see how much they think fines will cost them vs how long this will take, and if they can afford to hold out long enough then it'd be worth biting the bullet if it results in a 'win'. Maybe let a few little fish go but protect the main school, that sort of thing.
I don't think one can overestimate the stakes here; the GOP wants total control and this is the closest they've come yet. A hit to the budget, even a big one, is probably still worth it. The silver lining is so many of these guys are selfish, greedy, and stupid so playing that kind of ball is a big ask.
Also I don't see why they shouldn't receive the same penalties for ignoring a subpoena that I would if I responded to one by saying I didn't recognize the authority of whoever issued it.
We discussed this wrt Manafort, I think, or at least one of the other cases in all of this. Fines can be pretty coercive, as a lot of people may be worth a lot but have a significant portion of that money tied up in assets, so when you start draining their liquid funds, it still has the possibility to really apply pressure. As for being bankrolled by the GOP, I'd almost consider that an additional positive here, draining potential campaign funds.
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This is a key distinction that even I myself forget sometimes. For the wealthy a much larger percentage of their money is in assets as compared to the working class. Start taking their liquid cash and they may need to sell off some of those assets to afford their lifestyle. That's a pressure point worth hitting.
Because that is absolutely the sort of thing I can see these fuckos trying to do, and there are probably enough dipshits in this country to pay in.
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I thought they tried that once but it became a scam?
I assume that GoFundMes count as income and thus the courts would be able to adjust the fined accordingly.
And then Bill Mitchell it and use the money to move to the beach.
What ever happened to that "pay for the wall" GoFundMe? I'm sure everyone who pledged would gladly allow the money to be switched to "Trump cabinet defense fund."
On my sleeve, let the runway start
Thus sounded silly to me at first, but then I remembered Roger Stone. His legal defense fund easily met it's goal of $100,000. If Stone was able to get that with little effort, someone high profile like Giuliani could rake it in.
Before you say, "Josh, we already knew that", this is a different time. I'm saying this is the second time it's happened now.
It hasn't even been a month since the last time they made this mistake.
If history is any indication it will 100% work, but only for like the first person who jumps on the idea. The first guy gets all the attention and thus all the money. The next bunch get forgotten.
Notably, right after Barr has a late-night talk with Murdoch and after Trump was complaining about him.
Well we know there are a bunch of whistleblowers so it wouldn't surprise me if someone is like "these talking points are dumb, here you go dems."
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Who writes this shit?
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It's weird how nobody noticed we are in that one "The Day the Earth Stood Stupid" episode of Futurama, but instead of jumping into a bunch of classic literature we collectively jumped into an Onion article printout.
His goodbye message:
Sounds like the Trump admin and the news vs opinion fight at Fox has finally gotten the better of him.
"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
The guy who launched that wound up pocketing it. Last I heard (a few months ago) the criminal investigation was still ongoing.
If trumptv launches, fox news will cease to have a reason to exist
DC Examiner reporter: