I don't think Jerry is good and innocent by any means, but the rest of his family is made up of hateful, verbally abusive people who constantly treat him like shit. I can't help but see Jerry as at least the least bad person in his family, and the fact that the writers and fanbase at large treat Jerry poorly makes me feel like his biggest sin in the eyes of those people is that he largely doesn't retaliate when he's being attacked. The reason he's a loser is because when people treat him terribly and verbally abuse him he just takes it instead of fighting back. It sends this toxic message that being being abusive is cool and good, actually.
Rude assholes winning points by picking on Jerry sets an example of uncaring selfishness. It is bullying, it is toxic, it is no way for a decent person to behave ... and that absurdity is part of what makes the show funny.
Anyone hoping Rick's comeuppance will come from him not being the smartest, most competent person in the universe will be disappointed, because the premise of the show is literally that he is the smartest, most competent person in the universe.
Any comeuppance comes from showing that's not the only thing that matters, which the show illustrates very frequently.
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The bigger problem with Jerry is that he's the only one in the family that gets picked on for merely existing, rather than when he does something stupid. The other family members only get shit when they do something stupid.
Combine that with the fact that much (not all) of what Jerry does that is stupid/hurtful is just taking advantage of opportunities presented to him (making him seem too passive) or attempting to prove his worth (making him seem too sympathetic).
Now, this episode had a much better Jerry fuckup -- tearing down the house the rock monster made, saying it was against camping. That move is the rare Jerry move that sees him take the initiative and is rooted in pure ego, rather than attempting to stand up to his family's bullying (the rock monsters loved him). Finally, it's a move that can't be interpreted as someone suffering from depression. Jerry finally has agency to be an ass, and actively fuck up a good thing on purpose rather than on accident.
...but of course that was undercut somewhat by the family earlier giving him tons of shit for merely existing.
My big issue with the Jerry plotlines is they feel warmed over. Like, we had Beth and Jerry get divorced, then remarry. They had that whole alternative dimensions thing when they realized they made each other happy.
Like, they keep hinting at character development for these two and then resetting them because they cant think of new jokes. If that's the case then stop pretending we are getting character development.
Eh, lame episode I think kind of overall. Getting old slamming Jerry and if my family treated me like that I'd probably just leave too, why stick around with people who clearly don't want you there?
Also, Rick is killing Gods now? So not entirely sure where we go from here for risk and action?
They pretty much spelled out in the alien therepy center episode that Beth and Jerry have an extremely unhealthy codependant relationship. That didn't go away just because they beat up some monster they conjured from their minds.
The marriage counselling episode demonstrated they had a co-dependent relationship and the alternate universe one showed that they're meant to be together. Why? I don't know. Beth is RIck's daughter and probably likes having her own Morty around to feel superior to, and it makes it easier to blame her own failings professionally on him getting her pregnant.
Eh, lame episode I think kind of overall. Getting old slamming Jerry and if my family treated me like that I'd probably just leave too, why stick around with people who clearly don't want you there?
Also, Rick is killing Gods now? So not entirely sure where we go from here for risk and action?
Well, Rick didnt kill the God, Morty and Summer did.
Plus it was only a Zeus.
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
We've also seen that Jerry getting a millimeter of ground instantly turns him into an asshole. When they go to the immortality fun park, Rick is "neutralized" for less than a minute before Jerry starts abusing the shit out of him relentlessly. That's where it gets entertaining when he's on the ground begging for his life a few minutes later, as he just does not know which fights to pick or how to dial back on anything. So it's the karmic element I enjoy, because he does make for a good target for karma.
The bigger problem with Jerry is that he's the only one in the family that gets picked on for merely existing, rather than when he does something stupid. The other family members only get shit when they do something stupid.
This is the stuff that utterly bores me. When Jerry is out of work and driving everybody crazy by trying to manipulate him into talking to him, I rather enjoy that he feels like everybody is picking on him instead of him understanding what a total asshole he's being, constantly. When he's in a fight for his life with flying pants because his ego refuses to let him ask Rick for help, that was great because he "wins" but he's still miserable.
When he's just kinda there and his family snipes at him for utterly no reason, it feels like filler to me. Nobody else gets shit on just for being in the scene.
The problem is that this show kind of fucked up Jerry's unemployment situation too. Ideally, he should be actively dodging trying to get work, or making lame excuses, or something. But like most of the other insults, he just absorbs it. And unemployment as an insult, full stop, really doesn't look well considering *gestures broadly at the world*
And then there was the time he actually got a job when the aliens took over work and gave him one. His reaction? Guileless joy. He was just so glad to be doing something he was good at that he was the happiest he's ever been on this show. Yes, the work was a lie and the whole situation made the rest of his family miserable, but it still painted Jerry as somewhat sympathetic because he finally got a win after years of being shit on. Overlooking how the rest of his family feels is almost understandable in this case. It would have been better if, in that moment, Jerry was egotistical about it (like, at all), rubbed it in his family's faces, or such. Actually took action into being a jerk instead of simply pretending he's not in a situation where he has to choose between himself or his family, because things are working out for him for once. Which is one more thing that makes him seem like a depressed person who has given up rather than an actively awful person.
I don't understand the Jerry defenders coming out of the walls today. Did you ask the network for change when Al Bundy spent every joyless day at the shoe store? Did you send a letter to the writers and demand Homer give Flanders his TV tray back? Did you threaten a boycott when George Costanza got a smidge of success but then routinely screwed up a good thing?
The 90s and its edgy anti-sitcoms must have made me numb to Jerry's suffering because I don't want the R&M writers to change a thing.
We've also seen that Jerry getting a millimeter of ground instantly turns him into an asshole. When they go to the immortality fun park, Rick is "neutralized" for less than a minute before Jerry starts abusing the shit out of him relentlessly. That's where it gets entertaining when he's on the ground begging for his life a few minutes later, as he just does not know which fights to pick or how to dial back on anything. So it's the karmic element I enjoy, because he does make for a good target for karma.
You mean where he wouldn't let him have a cookie? Just after he saved Rick's life and Rick responded by demeaning and torturing him, and then slapping him in the face with alien testicles? That really feels like reaching for the slightest justification whatsoever, and then one is allowed to be as big a sadistic, evil bastard as they want. The thread of that episode was Rick is a condescending patronizing asshole, and Jerry almost succumbs to temptation but changes his mind and does the 'right' (insofar as saving Rick's life is 'right') thing, but is relentlessly punished and mocked for even daring to think about going against his better, then withholds a cookie, saves Rick's life again, and his reward is continued mockery and being told to fuck off. But the karmic scales are balanced because of the cookie thing?
I really kind of despise that episode as a microcosm of what the worst parts of the fanbase celebrate, and it's no coincidence a certain speech in it has become their holy grail.
Well the point of Al Bundy working a soul crushing job at a shoe store is to portray the fact that he peaked in highschool, and has such become a sad, pathetic misogynist.
Jerry is shit on by his family who resents him and treats him with disdain while lionizing a narcissistic sociopath because he's powerful.
Beth bends over backwards to connect with her father, but treats her family as disposable accessories.
If R&M is supposed to be detached sociopathy like IASIP, then go for it, but it pivots between trying to make us care about the emotional well being about the characters and mocking them for being human.
We've also seen that Jerry getting a millimeter of ground instantly turns him into an asshole. When they go to the immortality fun park, Rick is "neutralized" for less than a minute before Jerry starts abusing the shit out of him relentlessly. That's where it gets entertaining when he's on the ground begging for his life a few minutes later, as he just does not know which fights to pick or how to dial back on anything. So it's the karmic element I enjoy, because he does make for a good target for karma.
You mean where he wouldn't let him have a cookie? Just after he saved Rick's life and Rick responded by demeaning and torturing him, and then slapping him in the face with alien testicles?
To be fair, the entire reason Rick’s life was in danger was that Jerry put him in danger in the first place. Like, if you push someone into traffic, and at the last minute pull them out of the way of an oncoming bus, you shouldn’t be surprised if they’re more annoyed than thankful.
Jerry was absolutely a bastard to Rick once he got lobotomized. Constantly insulting, belitting and even threatening violence against him. (He fakes a punch towards Rick, who is obviously not in a mental state to properly defend himself as he just whinces in fear.). The cookie thing was just a cherry on the dick sundae.
That said, in the same episode, also abandons his chance to get out of the situation scot-free and live a Rick-free life with his family, but instead tries to stop Rick's assassination a second time (albiet feebly) and would have been shot had his actions not accidently disabled the thingy that prevented them from going on a warp-jump acid trip.
We've also seen that Jerry getting a millimeter of ground instantly turns him into an asshole. When they go to the immortality fun park, Rick is "neutralized" for less than a minute before Jerry starts abusing the shit out of him relentlessly. That's where it gets entertaining when he's on the ground begging for his life a few minutes later, as he just does not know which fights to pick or how to dial back on anything. So it's the karmic element I enjoy, because he does make for a good target for karma.
You mean where he wouldn't let him have a cookie? Just after he saved Rick's life and Rick responded by demeaning and torturing him, and then slapping him in the face with alien testicles?
To be fair, the entire reason Rick’s life was in danger was that Jerry put him in danger in the first place. Like, if you push someone into traffic, and at the last minute pull them out of the way of an oncoming bus, you shouldn’t be surprised if they’re more annoyed than thankful.
The reason Rick's life was in danger is because he sold weapons to slavers and the victims wanted to assassinate him. Hell, Jerry refused the offer to assassinate Rick, then went back to Rick, who told him he deliberately sabotaged his marriage. Only at THAT point, did Jerry consider it.
Jerry is also a piece of shit but more to the point he was a piece of shit before Rick ever showed up.
Rick hates Jerry and Rick treats people he likes poorly most of the time and we get plenty examples of people Rick outright treats worse then Jerry to boot.
Also I think people take too much away from the alternate reality goggles episode.
One version of Jerry and Beth don't get together, end up successful and miserable and come together later in life.
Where do we ever find out that isn't a terrible outcome? Sure the story plays it as uplifting but it could easily be the worse mistake those two ever make.
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Well the point of Al Bundy working a soul crushing job at a shoe store is to portray the fact that he peaked in highschool, and has such become a sad, pathetic misogynist.
Jerry is shit on by his family who resents him and treats him with disdain while lionizing a narcissistic sociopath because he's powerful.
Beth bends over backwards to connect with her father, but treats her family as disposable accessories.
If R&M is supposed to be detached sociopathy like IASIP, then go for it, but it pivots between trying to make us care about the emotional well being about the characters and mocking them for being human.
I was thinking, well not specifically about that but how so much of the show episode to episode feels like there is a war going on in the writers room between those who want continuity and those who dont. Like one episode there is a big character development and the next its ignored.
Rick has, multiple times on screen, died and come back to life across multiple different episodes.
There is never any risk. Not when it comes to physical and intellectual confrontations anyway. FFS the guy created a series of elaborate trap scenarios to defeat fake Avengers while black out drunk. All any other human achieves in that state is, at most, peeing in a bush then falling in to it. No entity, ever, at any point is going to be an actual threat to Rick.
I'd be a lot more concerned about Jerry if he actually tried to improve himself instead of coasting and expecting others to be impressed.
For the record I'm genuinely proud of him for bee keeping.
I liked that he took up beekeeping and I hated that his entire family's response to that was to give him the silent treatment. It's kind of hard to make progress in an environment that gives zero positive reinforcement and repeatedly drives home the fact that nothing he accomplishes will ever be a hundredth as interesting or impactful as what the rest of his family (barring Summer) have going on. His control over his own life is virtually nonexistent. Everything he has, he has because Rick hasn't destroyed it in a drunken apathetic misadventure - which would be disturbing enough as an unrealized possibility, much less the weekly or monthly occurrence that it is. Rick carelessly rearranges Jerry's life in abrupt, traumatic fashion on a regular basis.
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AbsoluteZeroThe new film by Quentin KoopantinoRegistered Userregular
The Jerry thing is starting to feel like Meg on Family Guy.
The marriage counselling episode demonstrated they had a co-dependent relationship and the alternate universe one showed that they're meant to be together. Why? I don't know. Beth is RIck's daughter and probably likes having her own Morty around to feel superior to, and it makes it easier to blame her own failings professionally on him getting her pregnant.
The Jerry and Beth that end up happy until the end stinger both lived very different lives and grew as people.
Primary Jerry and Beth simply took that as applying to them ignoring that the reasons they were unhappy were wildly different
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Rick has, multiple times on screen, died and come back to life across multiple different episodes.
There is never any risk. Not when it comes to physical and intellectual confrontations anyway. FFS the guy created a series of elaborate trap scenarios to defeat fake Avengers while black out drunk. All any other human achieves in that state is, at most, peeing in a bush then falling in to it. No entity, ever, at any point is going to be an actual threat to Rick.
Except squirrels of course.
That episode was the worst and Dan Harmon agrees. Terrible story structure laid on-top of what is essentially a sequel to meseeks and destroy.
BethrynUnhappiness is MandatoryRegistered Userregular
The risk Rick has is losing any connection to his family again.
If he gets to a point where he somehow fucks it up so there is no universe of almost-his-family that he can jump to after screwing it, that's how he loses. Fairly standard Rolling Stone stuff.
Rick has, multiple times on screen, died and come back to life across multiple different episodes.
There is never any risk. Not when it comes to physical and intellectual confrontations anyway. FFS the guy created a series of elaborate trap scenarios to defeat fake Avengers while black out drunk. All any other human achieves in that state is, at most, peeing in a bush then falling in to it. No entity, ever, at any point is going to be an actual threat to Rick.
Except squirrels of course.
That episode was the worst and Dan Harmon agrees. Terrible story structure laid on-top of what is essentially a sequel to meseeks and destroy.
I have no idea which one you're referring to. I mention multiple different episodes.
The risk Rick has is losing any connection to his family again.
If he gets to a point where he somehow fucks it up so there is no universe of almost-his-family that he can jump to after screwing it, that's how he loses. Fairly standard Rolling Stone stuff.
Infinite possibilities and probabilities. There will always be somewhere for him to run to. But the question is actually if he wants to put the work in to do that, and the answer, no, no he doesn't.
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BethrynUnhappiness is MandatoryRegistered Userregular
The risk Rick has is losing any connection to his family again.
If he gets to a point where he somehow fucks it up so there is no universe of almost-his-family that he can jump to after screwing it, that's how he loses. Fairly standard Rolling Stone stuff.
Infinite possibilities and probabilities. There will always be somewhere for him to run to. But the question is actually if he wants to put the work in to do that, and the answer, no, no he doesn't.
Infinite possibilities include the possibility to deny yourself further access to infinite possibilities.
Rick has, multiple times on screen, died and come back to life across multiple different episodes.
There is never any risk. Not when it comes to physical and intellectual confrontations anyway. FFS the guy created a series of elaborate trap scenarios to defeat fake Avengers while black out drunk. All any other human achieves in that state is, at most, peeing in a bush then falling in to it. No entity, ever, at any point is going to be an actual threat to Rick.
Except squirrels of course.
That episode was the worst and Dan Harmon agrees. Terrible story structure laid on-top of what is essentially a sequel to meseeks and destroy.
I have no idea which one you're referring to. I mention multiple different episodes.
Vindicaters a luke warm rewarding of the a plot to meseeks and destroy.
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I assume Susan Sarandon is very hard to get for voice work and they wouldnt waste that by killing her character off.
Rude assholes winning points by picking on Jerry sets an example of uncaring selfishness. It is bullying, it is toxic, it is no way for a decent person to behave ... and that absurdity is part of what makes the show funny.
Any comeuppance comes from showing that's not the only thing that matters, which the show illustrates very frequently.
Combine that with the fact that much (not all) of what Jerry does that is stupid/hurtful is just taking advantage of opportunities presented to him (making him seem too passive) or attempting to prove his worth (making him seem too sympathetic).
Now, this episode had a much better Jerry fuckup -- tearing down the house the rock monster made, saying it was against camping. That move is the rare Jerry move that sees him take the initiative and is rooted in pure ego, rather than attempting to stand up to his family's bullying (the rock monsters loved him). Finally, it's a move that can't be interpreted as someone suffering from depression. Jerry finally has agency to be an ass, and actively fuck up a good thing on purpose rather than on accident.
...but of course that was undercut somewhat by the family earlier giving him tons of shit for merely existing.
Like, they keep hinting at character development for these two and then resetting them because they cant think of new jokes. If that's the case then stop pretending we are getting character development.
Also, Rick is killing Gods now? So not entirely sure where we go from here for risk and action?
Well, Rick didnt kill the God, Morty and Summer did.
Plus it was only a Zeus.
This is the stuff that utterly bores me. When Jerry is out of work and driving everybody crazy by trying to manipulate him into talking to him, I rather enjoy that he feels like everybody is picking on him instead of him understanding what a total asshole he's being, constantly. When he's in a fight for his life with flying pants because his ego refuses to let him ask Rick for help, that was great because he "wins" but he's still miserable.
When he's just kinda there and his family snipes at him for utterly no reason, it feels like filler to me. Nobody else gets shit on just for being in the scene.
Like, geese Rick, why does that sound familiar.
And then there was the time he actually got a job when the aliens took over work and gave him one. His reaction? Guileless joy. He was just so glad to be doing something he was good at that he was the happiest he's ever been on this show. Yes, the work was a lie and the whole situation made the rest of his family miserable, but it still painted Jerry as somewhat sympathetic because he finally got a win after years of being shit on. Overlooking how the rest of his family feels is almost understandable in this case. It would have been better if, in that moment, Jerry was egotistical about it (like, at all), rubbed it in his family's faces, or such. Actually took action into being a jerk instead of simply pretending he's not in a situation where he has to choose between himself or his family, because things are working out for him for once. Which is one more thing that makes him seem like a depressed person who has given up rather than an actively awful person.
The 90s and its edgy anti-sitcoms must have made me numb to Jerry's suffering because I don't want the R&M writers to change a thing.
You mean where he wouldn't let him have a cookie? Just after he saved Rick's life and Rick responded by demeaning and torturing him, and then slapping him in the face with alien testicles? That really feels like reaching for the slightest justification whatsoever, and then one is allowed to be as big a sadistic, evil bastard as they want. The thread of that episode was Rick is a condescending patronizing asshole, and Jerry almost succumbs to temptation but changes his mind and does the 'right' (insofar as saving Rick's life is 'right') thing, but is relentlessly punished and mocked for even daring to think about going against his better, then withholds a cookie, saves Rick's life again, and his reward is continued mockery and being told to fuck off. But the karmic scales are balanced because of the cookie thing?
I really kind of despise that episode as a microcosm of what the worst parts of the fanbase celebrate, and it's no coincidence a certain speech in it has become their holy grail.
Jerry is shit on by his family who resents him and treats him with disdain while lionizing a narcissistic sociopath because he's powerful.
Beth bends over backwards to connect with her father, but treats her family as disposable accessories.
If R&M is supposed to be detached sociopathy like IASIP, then go for it, but it pivots between trying to make us care about the emotional well being about the characters and mocking them for being human.
To be fair, the entire reason Rick’s life was in danger was that Jerry put him in danger in the first place. Like, if you push someone into traffic, and at the last minute pull them out of the way of an oncoming bus, you shouldn’t be surprised if they’re more annoyed than thankful.
That said, in the same episode, also abandons his chance to get out of the situation scot-free and live a Rick-free life with his family, but instead tries to stop Rick's assassination a second time (albiet feebly) and would have been shot had his actions not accidently disabled the thingy that prevented them from going on a warp-jump acid trip.
In conconlusion, Jerry is a land of contrasts.
The reason Rick's life was in danger is because he sold weapons to slavers and the victims wanted to assassinate him. Hell, Jerry refused the offer to assassinate Rick, then went back to Rick, who told him he deliberately sabotaged his marriage. Only at THAT point, did Jerry consider it.
Rick hates Jerry and Rick treats people he likes poorly most of the time and we get plenty examples of people Rick outright treats worse then Jerry to boot.
Also I think people take too much away from the alternate reality goggles episode.
One version of Jerry and Beth don't get together, end up successful and miserable and come together later in life.
Where do we ever find out that isn't a terrible outcome? Sure the story plays it as uplifting but it could easily be the worse mistake those two ever make.
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I was thinking, well not specifically about that but how so much of the show episode to episode feels like there is a war going on in the writers room between those who want continuity and those who dont. Like one episode there is a big character development and the next its ignored.
There is never any risk. Not when it comes to physical and intellectual confrontations anyway. FFS the guy created a series of elaborate trap scenarios to defeat fake Avengers while black out drunk. All any other human achieves in that state is, at most, peeing in a bush then falling in to it. No entity, ever, at any point is going to be an actual threat to Rick.
Except squirrels of course.
Homer hated Flanders because Homer is a jerkass.
Homer's bullying and Flanders' Christian absorption of abuse is running gag similar to what Jerry and Rick have.
Sure, why not? They don't have to actually go through with it, either.
For the record I'm genuinely proud of him for bee keeping.
I liked that he took up beekeeping and I hated that his entire family's response to that was to give him the silent treatment. It's kind of hard to make progress in an environment that gives zero positive reinforcement and repeatedly drives home the fact that nothing he accomplishes will ever be a hundredth as interesting or impactful as what the rest of his family (barring Summer) have going on. His control over his own life is virtually nonexistent. Everything he has, he has because Rick hasn't destroyed it in a drunken apathetic misadventure - which would be disturbing enough as an unrealized possibility, much less the weekly or monthly occurrence that it is. Rick carelessly rearranges Jerry's life in abrupt, traumatic fashion on a regular basis.
Nah Meg usually doesn't deserve it
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The Jerry and Beth that end up happy until the end stinger both lived very different lives and grew as people.
Primary Jerry and Beth simply took that as applying to them ignoring that the reasons they were unhappy were wildly different
That episode was the worst and Dan Harmon agrees. Terrible story structure laid on-top of what is essentially a sequel to meseeks and destroy.
If he gets to a point where he somehow fucks it up so there is no universe of almost-his-family that he can jump to after screwing it, that's how he loses. Fairly standard Rolling Stone stuff.
I have no idea which one you're referring to. I mention multiple different episodes.
Infinite possibilities and probabilities. There will always be somewhere for him to run to. But the question is actually if he wants to put the work in to do that, and the answer, no, no he doesn't.
PARADOX BITCHES.
Vindicaters a luke warm rewarding of the a plot to meseeks and destroy.