So, your character never changes or gets access to new stuff?
Sounds hella boring.
What if they change or get access to new stuff through story events?
Like, you don't gain skills just because you killed eighty goblins, but if you find the secret temple of the old gods, then you can learn how to turn into a bear.
I don't really see the material difference here - it's a leveling system either way.
i guess it's just preference. seeing numbers go up versus unlocking stuff via story.
gimme dat crunch tho
I like leveling and getting new skills and stuff, but I hate, hate, hate, hate, hate randomized loot. I don't want to compare two pieces of gear with like 20 different stats each to try and parse if one gives me 0.000001% better DPS, that's fucking stupid and boring.
i love randomized loot unless it comes in an overwhelming stream and the stats are too obtuse to understand.
I'm looking at you, Warhammer 40K: Martyr
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StraightziHere we may reign secure, and in my choice,To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered Userregular
So, your character never changes or gets access to new stuff?
Sounds hella boring.
What if they change or get access to new stuff through story events?
Like, you don't gain skills just because you killed eighty goblins, but if you find the secret temple of the old gods, then you can learn how to turn into a bear.
I don't really see the material difference here - it's a leveling system either way.
There's a couple of things, in my mind, that distinguish it.
First off, the idea of putting story before mechanical systems is just one that I find stronger. It suggests that the way to engage with the game is to explore and to engage with the story, rather than aim for mechanical optimization or something similar. This is a matter of personal appeal, of course, but I find that this sort of thing changes how I interact with the game itself.
Second, leveling implies, to me at least, the idea of numbers going up. This isn't always true, of course, but I think it is generally assumed when you level up your attacks are going to do more damage and you're going to have more hit points and so on and so forth. Whereas this system wouldn't have that, it would just have a broadening of your skill set, which can be adjusted to your own taste.
Third, as a part of that adjusting to your own taste, there is a way to do it so that it isn't necessary to gain the ability to turn into a bear. Maybe you don't particularly want to turn into a bear, or maybe you want to do something else more, or maybe you just want to run headlong down the main quest line, using only the ability to swing around the sword that you picked up at the beginning of the game. That might be more difficult than if you could turn into a bear somewhere along the way, but not because you're underleveled or whatever, it would be because turning into a bear is a useful option to have when you get to the Bear Fighting Arena part of the story.
That all sounds interesting about D3, I'll have to check it out at some point. But I guess I can kind of see why people might not like it, it kind of seems like they're removing the last remnants of rpg system to make it a more pure action game.
D3's stats come down almost entirely down to gear, you get a generic character boost based on paragon levels, but that's kinda it.
The last several years of D3 have seen specific developer-designed set items become the defining gear in the game, so each class has 4 different builds, and those are really the only viable options if you want to dive into the hardest endgame content.
[snipped images]
they keep multiplying the damage bonuses by crazy numbers, which has led to played using pretty much only those sets, since no other items even come close
There's a two-ring set in the game with the set bonus "If this is your only set bonus, gain +X% damage and +Y% defense for every ancient legendary you have equipped" (ancient legendaries are legendaries with higher stats. Like legendaries+, if you will). This was supposed to be an alternative to using sets, letting people mix and match whatever legendaries they wanted, but it didn't take off in practice.
A recent patch introduced a legendary gem (these are unique gems with special abilities attached to them, as opposed to stat bonuses; you can equip three of them, one per piece of jewelry) that has the effect "If you have no set bonuses, gain +X% damage and +Y% defense for every legendary you have equipped and +2*X% damage and +2*Y% defense for every ancient legendary you have equipped", and my impression is that this is way more viable than the two-ring set. I'm not sure if it's truly competitive with the 6-piece set bonuses, and I don't think that each class has combinations of legendaries that can really gel together into a build, but I think it's definitely opened up some fun builds that were just completely non-starters before.
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Donovan PuppyfuckerA dagger in the dark isworth a thousand swords in the morningRegistered Userregular
I would describe Diablo 3 as the worst game I've ever not been able to put down for a few days.
One thing that really shat me off about it was no matter how much I levelled up, if I travelled back to an old area the monsters levelled up too and it was just a matter of clicking 8 billion times to kill anything. Click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click "Oh hey babe are you playing that devil game again?" "Yeah that's the one." Click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click...
So, your character never changes or gets access to new stuff?
Sounds hella boring.
What if they change or get access to new stuff through story events?
Like, you don't gain skills just because you killed eighty goblins, but if you find the secret temple of the old gods, then you can learn how to turn into a bear.
I don't really see the material difference here - it's a leveling system either way.
i guess it's just preference. seeing numbers go up versus unlocking stuff via story.
gimme dat crunch tho
I like leveling and getting new skills and stuff, but I hate, hate, hate, hate, hate randomized loot. I don't want to compare two pieces of gear with like 20 different stats each to try and parse if one gives me 0.000001% better DPS, that's fucking stupid and boring.
i love randomized loot unless it comes in an overwhelming stream and the stats are too obtuse to understand.
I'm looking at you, Warhammer 40K: Martyr
I just don't want to look at, say, two swords and each one has like a bunch of different stats and then do a bunch of complicated maths to figure out one is maybe slightly, almost imperceptibly, better than the other. Just nah, I'll vendor everything instead until I find something that's obviously better.
While I can't stand JRPGs anymore, at least the old ones I played back in the day let you know that if you found a new weapon or something, it was a guaranteed upgrade from whatever you were using.
I just enjoyed Diablo 1 the most, but mostly cause of nostalgia.
But probably cause it didn't have a worthless desert act.
And I'm a guy who enjoyed Desolace pre-Cata in WoW.
I used to borrow my cousin's Diablo strategy guide on the school bus and pore over the loot tables in the back. I probably thought about that game way more than I actually played it.
I am interested in why Hobnail hates Fallen London
I'm sorry it's not a very interesting take, I just think the "game" part is abjectly terrible with the waiting for turns and the failure rates and the endless endless grinding and the bewildering menus and stat tracking and quest tracking and the prices on paid storylines on and on and on.
I've tried to get a couple friends into it just because I thought they would enjoy the writing, and they did, they just couldnt be asked to deal with all the dreadful chaff.
This all said I've been playing it for years and obliterated my first character over a quest line that has my favourite game writing hands down, it made my brain tingle and heart ache, here is my second character feel free to add me could really use somebody to come teach devil magic at my orphanage!!!
I am interested in why Hobnail hates Fallen London
I'm sorry it's not a very interesting take, I just think the "game" part is abjectly terrible with the waiting for turns and the failure rates and the endless endless grinding and the bewildering menus and stat tracking and quest tracking and the prices on paid storylines on and on and on.
I've tried to get a couple friends into it just because I thought they would enjoy the writing, and they did, they just couldnt be asked to deal with all the dreadful chaff.
This all said I've been playing it for years and obliterated my first character over a quest line that has my favourite game writing hands down, it made my brain tingle and heart ache, here is my second character feel free to add me could really use somebody to come teach devil magic at my orphanage!!!
I'll send you a card and an invite when I'm not on mobile; I'm an Agent though so no devil magic for your motley urchins I'm afraid
For me the best Diablo was the first one, I really like the rogue-like mechanics which the sequels shifted away from entirely
did they tho? i mean every area was randomly generated in 2 and 3 except for a few set pieces
That was neat but the inclusion of skill trees and focus on loot drops from enemies made the feature feel pretty cosmetic compared to the original game
It's kinda like Alien and Aliens I suppose
I am not dissing on the sequel (Diablo 2) though, it's better in every other aspect
You know eventually theyll do them Tier 4's and then we'll see somethin, that'll be somethin!! I dunno maybe they actually will I was fairly surprised by the ambitions getting done up
Hobnail on
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Indie Winterdie KräheRudi Hurzlmeier (German, b. 1952)Registered Userregular
Maybe now that Disco Elysium's a big thing they'll finally do a Fallen London cRPG like that
have your Shadowy and Dangerous talk to your Ruthless and Melancholy, shit I dunno
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StraightziHere we may reign secure, and in my choice,To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered Userregular
I would describe Diablo 3 as the worst game I've ever not been able to put down for a few days.
One thing that really shat me off about it was no matter how much I levelled up, if I travelled back to an old area the monsters levelled up too and it was just a matter of clicking 8 billion times to kill anything. Click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click "Oh hey babe are you playing that devil game again?" "Yeah that's the one." Click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click...
The pipe dream is AAA budget treatment with Failbetter writing, man that giant gaslit spook em up cave city would look fuckin amazing with a hundred million dollars dumped all over it
So, your character never changes or gets access to new stuff?
Sounds hella boring.
What if they change or get access to new stuff through story events?
Like, you don't gain skills just because you killed eighty goblins, but if you find the secret temple of the old gods, then you can learn how to turn into a bear.
I don't really see the material difference here - it's a leveling system either way.
There's a couple of things, in my mind, that distinguish it.
First off, the idea of putting story before mechanical systems is just one that I find stronger. It suggests that the way to engage with the game is to explore and to engage with the story, rather than aim for mechanical optimization or something similar. This is a matter of personal appeal, of course, but I find that this sort of thing changes how I interact with the game itself.
Second, leveling implies, to me at least, the idea of numbers going up. This isn't always true, of course, but I think it is generally assumed when you level up your attacks are going to do more damage and you're going to have more hit points and so on and so forth. Whereas this system wouldn't have that, it would just have a broadening of your skill set, which can be adjusted to your own taste.
Third, as a part of that adjusting to your own taste, there is a way to do it so that it isn't necessary to gain the ability to turn into a bear. Maybe you don't particularly want to turn into a bear, or maybe you want to do something else more, or maybe you just want to run headlong down the main quest line, using only the ability to swing around the sword that you picked up at the beginning of the game. That might be more difficult than if you could turn into a bear somewhere along the way, but not because you're underleveled or whatever, it would be because turning into a bear is a useful option to have when you get to the Bear Fighting Arena part of the story.
Diablo 3 has almost no animation priority, which makes it feel really snappy .
The set bonuses are a design dead end.
They do allow for very varied playstyles by boosting certain 2 or 3 skill combos sky high while not boosting other combos, which allows for subclasses more or less.
But they take out 90% of build creativity as they do it.
LoN builds are weird because they are potentially quite powerful but almost only at extreme levels of farming.
The way the treadmill is in the later seasons is pretty nice too. There's challenging content for a long stretch of time investment.
The main downside is that both grifts and rifts could have far more varied content.
What I hope they take into D4
-Animation/movement
-Every Legendary has a Unique effect
-Coop with big power difference is no big deal because the grouping bonus is better than the time lost to fighting harder enemies.
What needs change
- Story
- Find a way to have more build variety
- Work on inventory Sorting/judging 95% junk is tedious
Posts
i love randomized loot unless it comes in an overwhelming stream and the stats are too obtuse to understand.
I'm looking at you, Warhammer 40K: Martyr
There's a couple of things, in my mind, that distinguish it.
First off, the idea of putting story before mechanical systems is just one that I find stronger. It suggests that the way to engage with the game is to explore and to engage with the story, rather than aim for mechanical optimization or something similar. This is a matter of personal appeal, of course, but I find that this sort of thing changes how I interact with the game itself.
Second, leveling implies, to me at least, the idea of numbers going up. This isn't always true, of course, but I think it is generally assumed when you level up your attacks are going to do more damage and you're going to have more hit points and so on and so forth. Whereas this system wouldn't have that, it would just have a broadening of your skill set, which can be adjusted to your own taste.
Third, as a part of that adjusting to your own taste, there is a way to do it so that it isn't necessary to gain the ability to turn into a bear. Maybe you don't particularly want to turn into a bear, or maybe you want to do something else more, or maybe you just want to run headlong down the main quest line, using only the ability to swing around the sword that you picked up at the beginning of the game. That might be more difficult than if you could turn into a bear somewhere along the way, but not because you're underleveled or whatever, it would be because turning into a bear is a useful option to have when you get to the Bear Fighting Arena part of the story.
A recent patch introduced a legendary gem (these are unique gems with special abilities attached to them, as opposed to stat bonuses; you can equip three of them, one per piece of jewelry) that has the effect "If you have no set bonuses, gain +X% damage and +Y% defense for every legendary you have equipped and +2*X% damage and +2*Y% defense for every ancient legendary you have equipped", and my impression is that this is way more viable than the two-ring set. I'm not sure if it's truly competitive with the 6-piece set bonuses, and I don't think that each class has combinations of legendaries that can really gel together into a build, but I think it's definitely opened up some fun builds that were just completely non-starters before.
One thing that really shat me off about it was no matter how much I levelled up, if I travelled back to an old area the monsters levelled up too and it was just a matter of clicking 8 billion times to kill anything. Click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click "Oh hey babe are you playing that devil game again?" "Yeah that's the one." Click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click...
Fallen London?? That shits so bad it might not even count, Empire: Total War maybe probably
There's fifty hours of Huniepop play logged on my Steam account, which wasn't actually me playing but I believe I am morally culpable for
counterpoint: Hatred
I just don't want to look at, say, two swords and each one has like a bunch of different stats and then do a bunch of complicated maths to figure out one is maybe slightly, almost imperceptibly, better than the other. Just nah, I'll vendor everything instead until I find something that's obviously better.
While I can't stand JRPGs anymore, at least the old ones I played back in the day let you know that if you found a new weapon or something, it was a guaranteed upgrade from whatever you were using.
Why sully yourself with such a reference
have you played Borderlands
because I am 200 hours deep in this shit and it just keeps... referencing memes
god I wish I could quit this crack
just gotta get a legendary McGuffin rifle with perfect rolls and annointed stats and then I can quit
i have a 12 step program for that
i knock on the door, you open it, i walk in 12 steps and then proceed to slap you silly
But probably cause it didn't have a worthless desert act.
And I'm a guy who enjoyed Desolace pre-Cata in WoW.
omg lord jesus in heaven spare me from anymore desert levels
I used to borrow my cousin's Diablo strategy guide on the school bus and pore over the loot tables in the back. I probably thought about that game way more than I actually played it.
Who's hobnail? Relative of Schmimpy's?
waifu/maid or so i understand
the tsun to their dere
The beetle tunnels in act 2 were the fucking worst
I'm sorry it's not a very interesting take, I just think the "game" part is abjectly terrible with the waiting for turns and the failure rates and the endless endless grinding and the bewildering menus and stat tracking and quest tracking and the prices on paid storylines on and on and on.
I've tried to get a couple friends into it just because I thought they would enjoy the writing, and they did, they just couldnt be asked to deal with all the dreadful chaff.
This all said I've been playing it for years and obliterated my first character over a quest line that has my favourite game writing hands down, it made my brain tingle and heart ache, here is my second character feel free to add me could really use somebody to come teach devil magic at my orphanage!!!
That bug infested lair in the D1 expansion was pretty painful as well.
I'll send you a card and an invite when I'm not on mobile; I'm an Agent though so no devil magic for your motley urchins I'm afraid
That was neat but the inclusion of skill trees and focus on loot drops from enemies made the feature feel pretty cosmetic compared to the original game
It's kinda like Alien and Aliens I suppose
I am not dissing on the sequel (Diablo 2) though, it's better in every other aspect
This will be here until I receive an apology or Weedlordvegeta get any consequences for being a bully
As a barbarian with leap I loved the arcane sanctuary, you could really cheese the hell out of it.
Steam
That's right, I am staying at a tier 2 profession for lore reasons
Yeah you're fuckin deep in it
You know eventually theyll do them Tier 4's and then we'll see somethin, that'll be somethin!! I dunno maybe they actually will I was fairly surprised by the ambitions getting done up
have your Shadowy and Dangerous talk to your Ruthless and Melancholy, shit I dunno
It seems like the logical direction to do a full Fallen London RPG in
And like I've enjoyed the Sunless series, but I would be very interested to see a new direction
The reader's imagination does so much of the heavy lifting in the FL-verse that I'm not sure how smoothly it would adapt to even a weirdo cRPG
now let me tell you about Thorns builds
It worked for Mega Man.
The set bonuses are a design dead end.
They do allow for very varied playstyles by boosting certain 2 or 3 skill combos sky high while not boosting other combos, which allows for subclasses more or less.
But they take out 90% of build creativity as they do it.
LoN builds are weird because they are potentially quite powerful but almost only at extreme levels of farming.
The way the treadmill is in the later seasons is pretty nice too. There's challenging content for a long stretch of time investment.
The main downside is that both grifts and rifts could have far more varied content.
What I hope they take into D4
-Animation/movement
-Every Legendary has a Unique effect
-Coop with big power difference is no big deal because the grouping bonus is better than the time lost to fighting harder enemies.
What needs change
- Story
- Find a way to have more build variety
- Work on inventory Sorting/judging 95% junk is tedious