I will say that one thing the ST gets extremely right is casting. Rey, Finn, and Poe were all great and played off each other very well. If they had written a new trilogy 100 years after the OT where Luke and Han and Leia are just myths/legends and we introduce those 3 characters, I think you could tell a great story.
Sadly that's not what we got.
How do you praise the casting without bringing up Kylo? I thought Adam Driver was the best part of the ST.
I will say that one thing the ST gets extremely right is casting. Rey, Finn, and Poe were all great and played off each other very well. If they had written a new trilogy 100 years after the OT where Luke and Han and Leia are just myths/legends and we introduce those 3 characters, I think you could tell a great story.
Sadly that's not what we got.
How do you praise the casting without bringing up Kylo? I thought Adam Driver was the best part of the ST.
Hux was well cast as a Saturday morning cartoon villain from the 90s.
Shame that it was a complete waste of screen time.
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The stupid flashback scene with the terrible CGI Luke and Leia in TROS is because JJ felt that audiences are so stupid that they can't not just be trusted to intuit obvious things like "Leia received some training n the force from Luke sometime in the past 30 years," that he can't just have Carrie Fisher literally tell us that, he has to also show it.
Meh, given that Palpatine was defeated by two people in under five minutes without ever being a threat to anything outside immediate range of his lightning-fingers, I'd call April an improvement.
Meh, given that Palpatine was defeated by two people in under five minutes without ever being a threat to anything outside immediate range of his lightning-fingers, I'd call April an improvement.
It wasn't just two people, they had All The Jedi with them. And more importantly, two lightsabers.
The fact that TROS shit all over the excellent "goodbye" we got for Carrie Fisher in TLJ and then tried to ghoulish and ham-handedly do it's own this is why it's unforgivable.
TBH for me, TLJ shat all over the goodbye when she turned into Leia Poppins. On reflection I'm glad they kept the rest of her work in the film, but that's one of the reasons I haven't been able to complete a second viewing of TLJ.
I might try again now that I've seen RotS, because while I had fun watching RotS, at least TLJ wasn't a mess.
Would having known that Leia trained in the ways of the Force with Luke before her Leia Poppins moment have changed your opinion of it?
In the scenes leading upto it I was convinced that Kylo was gonna off both his parents. But her surivial, while being cheezy for sure, was not a surprise to me because, as an EU reader, Leia having had not insignificant amounts of training was kinda of a no-brainer.
No, it wasn't her use of the Force that was the problem. It was the massive swing of emotion it triggered in me- Carrie had recently died. Han dies in TFA. I expected Leia to die. She gets spaced. We get a beautiful, emotional parting shot.
Then it pivots to (IMO) an absurd, comically ugly CGI shot of a new tweaked force power reveal.
That's why it was bad, to me.
The fact that TROS shit all over the excellent "goodbye" we got for Carrie Fisher in TLJ and then tried to ghoulish and ham-handedly do it's own this is why it's unforgivable.
TBH for me, TLJ shat all over the goodbye when she turned into Leia Poppins. On reflection I'm glad they kept the rest of her work in the film, but that's one of the reasons I haven't been able to complete a second viewing of TLJ.
I might try again now that I've seen RotS, because while I had fun watching RotS, at least TLJ wasn't a mess.
Would having known that Leia trained in the ways of the Force with Luke before her Leia Poppins moment have changed your opinion of it?
In the scenes leading upto it I was convinced that Kylo was gonna off both his parents. But her surivial, while being cheezy for sure, was not a surprise to me because, as an EU reader, Leia having had not insignificant amounts of training was kinda of a no-brainer.
No, it wasn't her use of the Force that was the problem. It was the massive swing of emotion it triggered in me- Carrie had recently died. Han dies in TFA. I expected Leia to die. She gets spaced. We get a beautiful, emotional parting shot.
Then it pivots to (IMO) an absurd, comically ugly CGI shot of a new tweaked force power reveal.
That's why it was bad, to me.
I can't argue with that. That would have been a great way for Carrie to go out. Unfortunately, this movie was Luke's turn to go out like a boss and the movie couldn't slip its release dates in order to reshoot a sizable chunk of the movie to allow for Leia to have her ending there and Luke to continue on.
The fact that TROS shit all over the excellent "goodbye" we got for Carrie Fisher in TLJ and then tried to ghoulish and ham-handedly do it's own this is why it's unforgivable.
TBH for me, TLJ shat all over the goodbye when she turned into Leia Poppins. On reflection I'm glad they kept the rest of her work in the film, but that's one of the reasons I haven't been able to complete a second viewing of TLJ.
I might try again now that I've seen RotS, because while I had fun watching RotS, at least TLJ wasn't a mess.
Would having known that Leia trained in the ways of the Force with Luke before her Leia Poppins moment have changed your opinion of it?
In the scenes leading upto it I was convinced that Kylo was gonna off both his parents. But her surivial, while being cheezy for sure, was not a surprise to me because, as an EU reader, Leia having had not insignificant amounts of training was kinda of a no-brainer.
No, it wasn't her use of the Force that was the problem. It was the massive swing of emotion it triggered in me- Carrie had recently died. Han dies in TFA. I expected Leia to die. She gets spaced. We get a beautiful, emotional parting shot.
Then it pivots to (IMO) an absurd, comically ugly CGI shot of a new tweaked force power reveal.
That's why it was bad, to me.
I can't argue with that. That would have been a great way for Carrie to go out. Unfortunately, this movie was Luke's turn to go out like a boss and the movie couldn't slip its release dates in order to reshoot a sizable chunk of the movie to allow for Leia to have her ending there and Luke to continue on.
Not to mention necessitating a complete rewrite and reshoot of a ton of the film.
Meh, given that Palpatine was defeated by two people in under five minutes without ever being a threat to anything outside immediate range of his lightning-fingers, I'd call April an improvement.
It wasn't just two people, they had All The Jedi with them. And more importantly, two lightsabers.
Oh, and I guess a fleet was there too.
Did the fleet even do anything? Didn't the evil fleet*9000 self destruct as soon Palpatine v6.1 died?
Meh, given that Palpatine was defeated by two people in under five minutes without ever being a threat to anything outside immediate range of his lightning-fingers, I'd call April an improvement.
It wasn't just two people, they had All The Jedi with them. And more importantly, two lightsabers.
Oh, and I guess a fleet was there too.
Did the fleet even do anything? Didn't the evil fleet*9000 self destruct as soon Palpatine v6.1 died?
Meh, given that Palpatine was defeated by two people in under five minutes without ever being a threat to anything outside immediate range of his lightning-fingers, I'd call April an improvement.
It wasn't just two people, they had All The Jedi with them. And more importantly, two lightsabers.
Oh, and I guess a fleet was there too.
Did the fleet even do anything? Didn't the evil fleet*9000 self destruct as soon Palpatine v6.1 died?
God that movie was fucking dumb.
My favorite part was Wedge Antilles.
As a gunner.
I had an aneurysm when I saw that. The X Wing books and Rogue Squadron games are my absolute favorite things in Star Wars and come on how did you get that wrong it was SO EASY AHSJKHKSDJGH
Still hoping we get a Wedge Antilles as Top Gun instructor show on D+
Meh, given that Palpatine was defeated by two people in under five minutes without ever being a threat to anything outside immediate range of his lightning-fingers, I'd call April an improvement.
It wasn't just two people, they had All The Jedi with them. And more importantly, two lightsabers.
Oh, and I guess a fleet was there too.
Did the fleet even do anything? Didn't the evil fleet*9000 self destruct as soon Palpatine v6.1 died?
Meh, given that Palpatine was defeated by two people in under five minutes without ever being a threat to anything outside immediate range of his lightning-fingers, I'd call April an improvement.
It wasn't just two people, they had All The Jedi with them. And more importantly, two lightsabers.
Oh, and I guess a fleet was there too.
Did the fleet even do anything? Didn't the evil fleet*9000 self destruct as soon Palpatine v6.1 died?
God that movie was fucking dumb.
I thought it was Finn riding on Sleipnir doing some shit to get rid of their shields so they could be shot down
The fact that TROS shit all over the excellent "goodbye" we got for Carrie Fisher in TLJ and then tried to ghoulish and ham-handedly do it's own this is why it's unforgivable.
TBH for me, TLJ shat all over the goodbye when she turned into Leia Poppins. On reflection I'm glad they kept the rest of her work in the film, but that's one of the reasons I haven't been able to complete a second viewing of TLJ.
I might try again now that I've seen RotS, because while I had fun watching RotS, at least TLJ wasn't a mess.
Would having known that Leia trained in the ways of the Force with Luke before her Leia Poppins moment have changed your opinion of it?
In the scenes leading upto it I was convinced that Kylo was gonna off both his parents. But her surivial, while being cheezy for sure, was not a surprise to me because, as an EU reader, Leia having had not insignificant amounts of training was kinda of a no-brainer.
No, it wasn't her use of the Force that was the problem. It was the massive swing of emotion it triggered in me- Carrie had recently died. Han dies in TFA. I expected Leia to die. She gets spaced. We get a beautiful, emotional parting shot.
Then it pivots to (IMO) an absurd, comically ugly CGI shot of a new tweaked force power reveal.
That's why it was bad, to me.
I can't argue with that. That would have been a great way for Carrie to go out. Unfortunately, this movie was Luke's turn to go out like a boss and the movie couldn't slip its release dates in order to reshoot a sizable chunk of the movie to allow for Leia to have her ending there and Luke to continue on.
Not to mention necessitating a complete rewrite and reshoot of a ton of the film.
Why? Leia is barely even in the movie after that, reshoot her interrupting Poe's mutiny (or drop that entire scene, honestly) and cut her conversation with Luke and cut the 5 seconds where Luke dies and fades away and you're done.
The fact that TROS shit all over the excellent "goodbye" we got for Carrie Fisher in TLJ and then tried to ghoulish and ham-handedly do it's own this is why it's unforgivable.
TBH for me, TLJ shat all over the goodbye when she turned into Leia Poppins. On reflection I'm glad they kept the rest of her work in the film, but that's one of the reasons I haven't been able to complete a second viewing of TLJ.
I might try again now that I've seen RotS, because while I had fun watching RotS, at least TLJ wasn't a mess.
Would having known that Leia trained in the ways of the Force with Luke before her Leia Poppins moment have changed your opinion of it?
In the scenes leading upto it I was convinced that Kylo was gonna off both his parents. But her surivial, while being cheezy for sure, was not a surprise to me because, as an EU reader, Leia having had not insignificant amounts of training was kinda of a no-brainer.
No, it wasn't her use of the Force that was the problem. It was the massive swing of emotion it triggered in me- Carrie had recently died. Han dies in TFA. I expected Leia to die. She gets spaced. We get a beautiful, emotional parting shot.
Then it pivots to (IMO) an absurd, comically ugly CGI shot of a new tweaked force power reveal.
That's why it was bad, to me.
I can't argue with that. That would have been a great way for Carrie to go out. Unfortunately, this movie was Luke's turn to go out like a boss and the movie couldn't slip its release dates in order to reshoot a sizable chunk of the movie to allow for Leia to have her ending there and Luke to continue on.
Not to mention necessitating a complete rewrite and reshoot of a ton of the film.
Why? Leia is barely even in the movie after that, reshoot her interrupting Poe's mutiny (or drop that entire scene, honestly) and cut her conversation with Luke and cut the 5 seconds where Luke dies and fades away and you're done.
Sure, not like that won't completely change the message of the film and the arc of Luke - oh.
The fact that TROS shit all over the excellent "goodbye" we got for Carrie Fisher in TLJ and then tried to ghoulish and ham-handedly do it's own this is why it's unforgivable.
TBH for me, TLJ shat all over the goodbye when she turned into Leia Poppins. On reflection I'm glad they kept the rest of her work in the film, but that's one of the reasons I haven't been able to complete a second viewing of TLJ.
I might try again now that I've seen RotS, because while I had fun watching RotS, at least TLJ wasn't a mess.
Would having known that Leia trained in the ways of the Force with Luke before her Leia Poppins moment have changed your opinion of it?
In the scenes leading upto it I was convinced that Kylo was gonna off both his parents. But her surivial, while being cheezy for sure, was not a surprise to me because, as an EU reader, Leia having had not insignificant amounts of training was kinda of a no-brainer.
No, it wasn't her use of the Force that was the problem. It was the massive swing of emotion it triggered in me- Carrie had recently died. Han dies in TFA. I expected Leia to die. She gets spaced. We get a beautiful, emotional parting shot.
Then it pivots to (IMO) an absurd, comically ugly CGI shot of a new tweaked force power reveal.
That's why it was bad, to me.
I can't argue with that. That would have been a great way for Carrie to go out. Unfortunately, this movie was Luke's turn to go out like a boss and the movie couldn't slip its release dates in order to reshoot a sizable chunk of the movie to allow for Leia to have her ending there and Luke to continue on.
Not to mention necessitating a complete rewrite and reshoot of a ton of the film.
Why? Leia is barely even in the movie after that, reshoot her interrupting Poe's mutiny (or drop that entire scene, honestly) and cut her conversation with Luke and cut the 5 seconds where Luke dies and fades away and you're done.
Sure, not like that won't completely change the message of the film and the arc of Luke - oh.
Yeah, Leia is in a ton of the movie after that, is a key part in one of the big 3's character arc and also has that really touching scene at the end with Luke and an explicit hand-off to the new generation after that.
+3
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A little birdy sent me these:
man the guy who does the artwork for the black series packaging sure does good work.. Of course that is absolutely NOT who hooked me up with this!
Things I'd like to see in the next movie(s) in order of importance.
1. Ditch the dark=bad light=good deal. It's an infantile approach to morality. Fear and anger are not evil things! Suppressing them quite often leads to bad outcomes!
2. Being force sensitive itself is not a good thing. Give any sentient being force powers and you have 50/50 odds of them becoming a complete monster. Let's see that addressed.
3. At least a faction, if not all, of galactic civilization would want to purge all force sensitives from existence. The force is too powerful to be entrusted to anyone at all, as demonstrated by both the Sith (evil) and the Jedi (catastrophically dumb and irresponsible). Pograms and concentration camps ahoy!
1–No. But I will agree, suppressing negative emotions is bad. Confronting them is what is needed. I’ll give TROS some credit for at least paying lip service to that idea.
2–See the sequel trilogy. 2 new force users, 1 bad, 1 good. :P
3–It might be interesting to see this, but I think it should be in far past or future...when there are actually a significant number of Jedi available.
+1
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ChaosHatHop, hop, hop, HA!Trick of the lightRegistered Userregular
I will say that one thing the ST gets extremely right is casting. Rey, Finn, and Poe were all great and played off each other very well. If they had written a new trilogy 100 years after the OT where Luke and Han and Leia are just myths/legends and we introduce those 3 characters, I think you could tell a great story.
Sadly that's not what we got.
How do you praise the casting without bringing up Kylo? I thought Adam Driver was the best part of the ST.
Adam Driver is fantastic in basically everything he does and Star Wars is no exception. The difference is he is not part of the squad of best buddies who could theoretically continue to adventure after TROS or have been used better throughout the trilogy. Oscar Isaac is pretty criminally underused in the whole thing but he's just so damn good. You can't help but pay attention to him, he's got that charisma.
1–No. But I will agree, suppressing negative emotions is bad. Confronting them is what is needed. I’ll give TROS some credit for at least paying lip service to that idea.
2–See the sequel trilogy. 2 new force users, 1 bad, 1 good. :P
3–It might be interesting to see this, but I think it should be in far past or future...when there are actually a significant number of Jedi available.
Regarding #1: "Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering" is a foundational component of the Star Wars mythos. And it's also at the core of the Jedi's fall/rise of Anakin. The PT Jedi, with the partial exceptions of Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon, aren't really good guys. Like so much else, it's portrayed better in The Clone Wars. But, the Jedi are intentionally showed as being wrong about almost everything, from distancing/elevating themselves in a literal ivory tower, to being mindlessly dogmatic, etc.
The entire point is that their extreme of attempting to suppress emotion is just as shortsighted and dangerous as the Sith reveling in emotion. And it's one of the reasons why Luke is so bitter in TLJ. He sees their failure correctly, is a part of it himself (his visceral reaction to Ben), and doesn't see a way forward until Yoda essentially introduces Jeet Kune-Do to Star Wars. Take/use what works and discard the rest. Clinging to the past is wasteful and paralyzing. Learning from the past is liberating.
It's pretty much the only part of the saga that sticks with the series' incredibly broad, pop Eastern roots. To remove it is to remove a big part of the franchise's soul.
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How do you praise the casting without bringing up Kylo? I thought Adam Driver was the best part of the ST.
Hux was well cast as a Saturday morning cartoon villain from the 90s.
Shame that it was a complete waste of screen time.
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It's more then a few lines. It's literally one of the biggest mysteries dropped in ESB.
"No, there is another"
That other is Leia.
And remember this is in terms of "training them to be a Jedi, like they did with Luke".
Yes, but I’m not sure the point you’re arguing.
Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
Wilds of Aladrion: [https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/43159014/#Comment_43159014]Ellandryn[/url]
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It wasn't just two people, they had All The Jedi with them. And more importantly, two lightsabers.
Oh, and I guess a fleet was there too.
Literal brainwashing.
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No, it wasn't her use of the Force that was the problem. It was the massive swing of emotion it triggered in me- Carrie had recently died. Han dies in TFA. I expected Leia to die. She gets spaced. We get a beautiful, emotional parting shot.
Then it pivots to (IMO) an absurd, comically ugly CGI shot of a new tweaked force power reveal.
That's why it was bad, to me.
I can't argue with that. That would have been a great way for Carrie to go out. Unfortunately, this movie was Luke's turn to go out like a boss and the movie couldn't slip its release dates in order to reshoot a sizable chunk of the movie to allow for Leia to have her ending there and Luke to continue on.
Not to mention necessitating a complete rewrite and reshoot of a ton of the film.
Did the fleet even do anything? Didn't the evil fleet*9000 self destruct as soon Palpatine v6.1 died?
God that movie was fucking dumb.
You can't give someone a pirate ship in one game, and then take it back in the next game. It's rude.
That podcast almost makes me want to check out the Holiday Special.
Almost.
My favorite part was Wedge Antilles.
As a gunner.
Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
Wilds of Aladrion: [https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/43159014/#Comment_43159014]Ellandryn[/url]
I had an aneurysm when I saw that. The X Wing books and Rogue Squadron games are my absolute favorite things in Star Wars and come on how did you get that wrong it was SO EASY AHSJKHKSDJGH
Still hoping we get a Wedge Antilles as Top Gun instructor show on D+
You can't give someone a pirate ship in one game, and then take it back in the next game. It's rude.
Saving Rey wasn’t necessary, so really, all he did was keep Rey from using the power of two lightsabers until later in the fight.
Always a bridesmaid, never a bride.
His Han Solo-channeling "aw shucks" shrug when he picks up the saber was great though. Adam Driver just killed it in that role.
You can't give someone a pirate ship in one game, and then take it back in the next game. It's rude.
I will agree that the shrug and the “ow” were good, but the price paid to get them was too high.
I thought it was Finn riding on Sleipnir doing some shit to get rid of their shields so they could be shot down
You know
Just like RotJ
Except the one that left early to blow up that planet. They're fine.
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CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
Why? Leia is barely even in the movie after that, reshoot her interrupting Poe's mutiny (or drop that entire scene, honestly) and cut her conversation with Luke and cut the 5 seconds where Luke dies and fades away and you're done.
Sure, not like that won't completely change the message of the film and the arc of Luke - oh.
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Yeah, Leia is in a ton of the movie after that, is a key part in one of the big 3's character arc and also has that really touching scene at the end with Luke and an explicit hand-off to the new generation after that.
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1. Ditch the dark=bad light=good deal. It's an infantile approach to morality. Fear and anger are not evil things! Suppressing them quite often leads to bad outcomes!
2. Being force sensitive itself is not a good thing. Give any sentient being force powers and you have 50/50 odds of them becoming a complete monster. Let's see that addressed.
3. At least a faction, if not all, of galactic civilization would want to purge all force sensitives from existence. The force is too powerful to be entrusted to anyone at all, as demonstrated by both the Sith (evil) and the Jedi (catastrophically dumb and irresponsible). Pograms and concentration camps ahoy!
2–See the sequel trilogy. 2 new force users, 1 bad, 1 good. :P
3–It might be interesting to see this, but I think it should be in far past or future...when there are actually a significant number of Jedi available.
Adam Driver is fantastic in basically everything he does and Star Wars is no exception. The difference is he is not part of the squad of best buddies who could theoretically continue to adventure after TROS or have been used better throughout the trilogy. Oscar Isaac is pretty criminally underused in the whole thing but he's just so damn good. You can't help but pay attention to him, he's got that charisma.
Re #2:
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Finn
The entire point is that their extreme of attempting to suppress emotion is just as shortsighted and dangerous as the Sith reveling in emotion. And it's one of the reasons why Luke is so bitter in TLJ. He sees their failure correctly, is a part of it himself (his visceral reaction to Ben), and doesn't see a way forward until Yoda essentially introduces Jeet Kune-Do to Star Wars. Take/use what works and discard the rest. Clinging to the past is wasteful and paralyzing. Learning from the past is liberating.
It's pretty much the only part of the saga that sticks with the series' incredibly broad, pop Eastern roots. To remove it is to remove a big part of the franchise's soul.