I'm not ready to go "Disney with Star Wars bad." I liked Rogue One, Solo was weird but overall I was okay with it. The episodic films is where I head tilt.
The way I see things, they made a mistake with the new trilogy. They were trying to adhere to Lucas' shallow level "good is good, evil is evil" stuff while also trying to make things more compelling (or make more direct political statements, etc). You can't do both at the same time. It makes things very awkward. They would've been better off fully embracing Lucas' style. That's why I like Rogue One and Solo - they didn't try to emulate Lucas' film direction style, or his shallow level depictions of the setting.
So a rumor of Disney rebooting things or making more, I don't care one way or the other. Not any differently than how I think of the Disney Corporation for any of their endeavors, at least.
The problems with Rogue One and Solo aren't really in the finished product, though there are issues there, it's that both films had very difficult productions. There have been Marvel movies where they switched directors and had other problems, but generally things have gone smoothly for the six trillion films they've made. On the Star Wars side of things though, three of the five films they've made have had some production hiccups, with the two standalone films having major issues that required a lot of reshoots. Disney set up an aggressive release schedule for the franchise (I think there was casting for TFA something like six or nine months after the purchase of Lucasfilm), but they don't seem to have had a good plan in place to implement that schedule. And this was with R1 and Solo being probably the easiest and most obvious stand alone stories to tell.
It's like Disney thought that since they were pretty good at making movies and this was Star Wars, then they should have no problems and the whole thing could run on automatic pilot. Hell, I'd think that probably. Turns out thought that having a plan, or even worse, a vision for what you want to do really does help sometimes.
Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
Hell, TLJ was really the only movie that had a smooth production. TFA shut down filming for a few weeks when Ford broke his leg/foot on-set. And I’m pretty sure they used that time to re-work and polish the script. That might be when they dropped the subplot of Maz giving the lightsaber to Leia.
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ShadowenSnores in the morningLoserdomRegistered Userregular
Hell, TLJ was really the only movie that had a smooth production. TFA shut down filming for a few weeks when Ford broke his leg/foot on-set. And I’m pretty sure they used that time to re-work and polish the script. That might be when they dropped the subplot of Maz giving the lightsaber to Leia.
I can't find anything to back it up but I recall seeing something saying the real reason Disney offered Johnson a trilogy all his own even before TLJ came out was because production was like a well-oiled machine compared to JJ.
I still find it disappointing that Finn went from one of the first characters shown in the first TFA trailer, to not even getting to say something important in RoS.
They really need to build up characters and stories that are new - like the Mandalorian.
And Finn had just in the stuff shown in RoS the chance for one hell of a subplot, what with the discovery of other First Order rebels. Imagine the end scene having a bunch of Star Destroyers show up to attack Palp's fleet because Finn inspired a larger rebellion?
Instead we get horses. For some reason.
My dream scenario would have been Finn competing his arc by telling Phasma to shut up and obey his orders so that he can get back to saving everyone's lives, and her grudgingly going along with it.
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NEO|PhyteThey follow the stars, bound together.Strands in a braid till the end.Registered Userregular
You know, we've had this thread title for a while, and not once have I seen us bagging on the Star Trek thread.
It was that somehow, from within the derelict-horror, they had learned a way to see inside an ugly, broken thing... And take away its pain.
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ObiFettUse the ForceAs You WishRegistered Userregular
You know, we've had this thread title for a while, and not once have I seen us bagging on the Star Trek thread.
That thread is a utopia where humanity has become better, while this one is an eternal battle between good and evil. The only commonality between them is J.J. Abrams.
Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
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Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
You know, we've had this thread title for a while, and not once have I seen us bagging on the Star Trek thread.
That thread is a utopia where humanity has become better, while this one is an eternal battle between good and evil. The only commonality between them is J.J. Abrams.
The Star Trek thread is actually pretty similar, it's just the arguments are on a smaller scale. Very few people, for example, seem intent on dying on a hill screaming, "Picard was the best Star Trek series ever and if you didn't like it you're a sexist!" Instead they're like, "Oh hey Picard was fun and cool! I enjoyed it!" while everyone else is like, "Eh it was pretty disappointing and kind of devolved into a mess at the end".
Then we all go back to, "So Riker - that guy fucks, right?" or, "Just how big of a creeper was Geordi?"
Ok, so I just watched Rise of Skywalker for the first time, and it just makes me weary. This whole trilogy didn't need to be made and feels superfluous until they get to actually writing new stories. Which is a shame, because it feels like they wasted all these great performances from the actors on crap scripts.
What else would people rate here? I've heard some of the comics are quite good, but I haven't read any of them. I know people say Clone Wars and Mandalorian are good, but I have no faith in them right now.
daveNYCWhy universe hate Waspinator?Registered Userregular
I only read Tales of the Bounty Hunters and it was hit or miss (and mostly miss). The only story I liked was Boba Fetts, and even then it was just the last bit where Han gets a midlife crisis and takes the Falcon out for one last adventure. The story ends with the two of them pointing guns at each other and Fett asking just what the hell Solo is thinking doing this stupid stuff when he has a good life and a family and all that.
The Zahn trilogy is generally excellent since it has an underdog Empire remnant fighting and winning with smarts, not just huge fleets or another stupid superweapon. Even the addition of the Katana fleet doesn't tip the balance of power fully towards Thrawn's side, he still needs to be tricksy to keep the New Republic locked down around Coruscant. About the worst thing about it is Talon Karrde coming off like a bit too much of a copy of Han Solo, just with a derpier name. Frankly, I'm disappointed that RoS didn't steal Nomad City and use it as one of the stops on the fetch quest.
Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
I'm still working my way through Clone Wars for the first time and I feel it should be noted that there's an enormous amount of filler. I hear the show closes out really well, but every time I see how far I have to go to get there, it makes me tired.
There are a bunch of "you only really need to watch these episodes" lists floating around, and I might end up resorting to one of those, but yeah. The show gets a lot of praise for how high quality it is, and I feel it's unfair to the uninitiated to not include that disclaimer.
I think Rebels is consistently higher quality than The Clone Wars in everything but art style, arguably from the first season and definitely from the second season forward.
I don't even buy the 'but the highs are better in TCW' because Rebels also had better peaks until maybe the finale of S7 of TCW.
Mandalorian's mixed quality but its fillers aren't bad like TCWs could be, just less good.
I barely remember the episodes in the middle, but I enjoyed watching them at the time even though I was always waiting for it to get back to the main arc.
I haven't read all of them, but the Disney era comics are pretty great. There was a series of 4 or so comics (whatever fits into a perfect sized TPB) called Vader Down, in which Vader crashes his TIE or whatever chasing Luke onto a planet that has an entire division of Rebels on it and Vader has no support. And the Rebels fucking JUMP on him and the Vader-ness is off the chain. It was quite entertaining, and my favorite scene is this....
I haven't read all of them, but the Disney era comics are pretty great. There was a series of 4 or so comics (whatever fits into a perfect sized TPB) called Vader Down, in which Vader crashes his TIE or whatever chasing Luke onto a planet that has an entire division of Rebels on it and Vader has no support. And the Rebels fucking JUMP on him and the Vader-ness is off the chain. It was quite entertaining, and my favorite scene is this....
I’ll put a good word in for the first two Vader series. The first picks up after ANH and does a great job of keeping Vader at a distance, viewed through the eyes of the people working for him. (It’s also the series that introduces Dr. Aphra and her murdering droids.) The second takes place right after RofS and shows just how messed up Vader was after his transformation. It also has some cool Force stuff that ties in with Rebels.
When I was driving once I saw this painted on a bridge:
"I don't want the world, I just want your half"
I haven't read all of them, but the Disney era comics are pretty great. There was a series of 4 or so comics (whatever fits into a perfect sized TPB) called Vader Down, in which Vader crashes his TIE or whatever chasing Luke onto a planet that has an entire division of Rebels on it and Vader has no support. And the Rebels fucking JUMP on him and the Vader-ness is off the chain. It was quite entertaining, and my favorite scene is this....
At first I though it was Darth Vader yelling "You are surrounded" to an entire army. It seemed appropriate too.
I can't stand that Vader book, including that scene. It's too over the top, unlike everything in any movie or show. Also a lot of the art is kinda bad.
I can't stand that Vader book, including that scene. It's too over the top, unlike everything in any movie or show. Also a lot of the art is kinda bad.
Any show? Did you happen to watch the final Clone Wars eps?
I remember enjoying Tales From Jabba's Palace, but I can really only remember the dancer's tale and just now thinking about it I don't want to say the full name of that chapter so maybe it wasn't great after all.
I think Rebels is consistently higher quality than The Clone Wars in everything but art style, arguably from the first season and definitely from the second season forward.
I don't even buy the 'but the highs are better in TCW' because Rebels also had better peaks until maybe the finale of S7 of TCW.
The very first episodes of the Clone Wars I ever saw were the ones that were released in theaters. It made me absolutely hate Ahsoka for....well, since then.
I was convinced to try again and watched Clone Wars on Netflix, but even then my friends who were ardent supporters of it were like "start on season 3, first two seasons were trash".
Two entire seasons were considered garbage by fans of the show.
Ahsoka improved dramatically once she wasn't a kid, but it still made me never go above "She's alright" due to the first exposure. Yes, this is a long way of saying I agree. Rebels is better imo. Except for the wolves / trippy stuff near the end in Rebels. Ew.
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
The wolves and the trippy stuff is the best part, how dare you have an opinion.
Two entire seasons were considered garbage by fans of the show.
I mean, we say the exact same thing about Parks and Recreation and Star Trek: The Next Generation. Season 1 of P&R is downright painful to watch, and the show only gets going when they get rid of Mark Brandanawitz and bring in Chris and Ben at the end of S2. The Riker's Beard index of TNG episode quality demonstrates quantitatively how S1 and S2 sucked; S1 has Code of Honor and The Last Outpost (the only episode AFAIK to get retconned by Enterprise without a single person on the internet complaining about it) and S2 has The Outrageous Okana and Up the Long Ladder and the only clip show episode in Star Trek history. Both shows are still among the best TV shows ever aired.
Not defending Clone Wars, I haven't actually watched it, but that criticism just struck at me.
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
You don't remember the guy with a turbo laser for a head?
That was some of the cringiest fanservice crap in the whole EU and an excellent example of why getting rid of the EU wasn't the worst idea.
My favorite part about the caper with Old Laserface (definitely not his name) is that the writer decides to one-up Batman by having Boba Fett plant a power core in the building during the original construction so he can come back years and years later with this one specific dino-cannon dude, get the guy through security by letting them remove his power core, get into a firefight later, bust open the wall, pull out the power core he stashed there, slap it into (the now-corpse of) Turbocannon McGee, and blow everything away.
EU Boba Fett was like trying to win an argument with a five year-old. "Boba Fett gets hit with a lightsaber!" "Nuh-uh, he keeps special armor in that spot!" "Boba Fett gets eaten!" "Nuh-uh, he explodes himself out of the monster using his jetpack!" "Boba Fett gets hopelessly trapped!" "Nuh-uh, he buried secret ammo in that place years ago and brought the special guy with him that can use that ammo!"
The only EU things I remember is the aforementioned Jabba's palace dancer's tale and that guy what has three eyes and Darth Vader's glove that he hooked up with tech to make it shoot lightning. His name was Triclops. Or was he Trioculus and the other guy was Triclops. I don't recall.
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
edited July 2020
You are conflating ye-rees, who was planning on Killing Jabba with a Thermal Detonator, and Triclops, who was from a different book.
Edit: it may be re-yees. He was one of the 3 eyed goat aliens, which is where the confusion comes from.
Fett getting out of the sarlac at least made some sense. Being digested over a thousand years means you have plenty of time to get out, and he did have a jetpack, which sarlacs presumably never evolved a countermeasure for.
If I recall the books, I think he had a cordial conversation with the sarlac first, though? Or a hallucination, or something.
But yeah, I never got why Boba Fett was supposed to be so awesome.
Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
edited July 2020
Fun fact: humans don't live for a thousand years, so it's a pretty empty threat. They would've been dead within a week from starvation or dehydration.
Fun fact: humans don't live for a thousand years, so it's a pretty empty threat. They would've been dead within a week from starvation or dehydration.
What a fool that Jabba was.
The old EU made up a way for that line of dialogue to be literally true, even though it made no sense.
Which is really all you need to know about the EU.
I want to comment on how someone is discussing a rumour, because how they're discussing it is far more interesting than the actual rumour.
The rumour: Some people at Disney are planning to use a plot device from Rebels to create an oldschool DC-Style Crisis and erase the Sequel Trilogy from Canon.
I just find it interesting that the article writers put so much focus on TLJ when if this rumour is true (which I doubt), the entire saga is on the chopping block.
A rumor from some random dude who willingly calls himself "Doomcock" and says the seeds for this move have already been planted because... mirrors exist.
Oh internet, never change.
Personally my bet is on the source actually being real, but the leaks being just something someone is suggesting and wants to guage reaction to or use that reaction to push their agenda in some corporate power struggle, but also wants deniability and the option to just abandon the idea if it tests poorly.
While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
If there's one thing in life you should never apologize for, its forgetting the exact name for a very obscure character from the far reaches of a fictional franchise.
Fun fact: humans don't live for a thousand years, so it's a pretty empty threat. They would've been dead within a week from starvation or dehydration.
What a fool that Jabba was.
The old EU made up a way for that line of dialogue to be literally true, even though it made no sense.
Which is really all you need to know about the EU.
The notion of a massive creature's digestive track imbuing its prey with some sort of life-extending stasis screams "Fuck evolution, this is just to create a highly convenient version of hell for whatever enterprising mobster slug has enemies to dispose of." Which...almost seems as fitting as it is dumb. Almost. It reminds me of The Looper, a movie everyone around me loves but I find impossible to watch without thinking, "You know, if you have time travel, you can just completely fucking neuter forensic analysis or even relevant police services so it doesn't matter what you do with the bodies." Actually thinking about it does you no favors.
But the Sarlac (Sarlacc?) pit isn't the stupidest thing by a long shot. Gun of command. Because Jedi hynpotizing/brainfucking "lesser people" wasn't off-putting enough by itself, weaponizing it into convenient conceal carry form was necessary.
Adjacent to that, I incorrectly assumed that the point of taking the "expanded universe" literary franchise out behind a shed, shooting and burying it wasn't to rob the graves of anything seemingly valuable a couple years later. "Yes, I know I said 'Fuck Grand Admiral Thrawn' while laughing hysterically while peeling out of my parking space in my Italian supercar, but is there anyway we can bring him back and make him 15 to 20 years younger?"
That being said, people seem to be enjoying all the stuff that's getting cribbed off the corpse of the old canon, which is justification in of itself. Of course, people enjoyed those absurd things back when they were actually new the first time, so I suppose it's funny to think how we might look at this ten or twenty years down the line.
Despite not actually likign Boba Fett as a character, I like that part of Tales of the Bounty Hunter with "Jaster Mereel" outlining his jaded philosophy while presumably chomping on a gigantic cigar in a badly lit space-detective office with a squeaky metal sign outside the door. Him being the best man at the wedding of the idiot bounty hunter who saved his life is actually quite charming. But IG-88 hijacking the second Death Star right before it exploded? Fuck, that's almost as stupid as time-traveling-mirror-bullshit. I think I like the novel less after finishing that particular chapter.
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I did want a sequel with Darth Maul showing up. That must have been hilarious for movie only viewers who don’t know about clone wars.
The problems with Rogue One and Solo aren't really in the finished product, though there are issues there, it's that both films had very difficult productions. There have been Marvel movies where they switched directors and had other problems, but generally things have gone smoothly for the six trillion films they've made. On the Star Wars side of things though, three of the five films they've made have had some production hiccups, with the two standalone films having major issues that required a lot of reshoots. Disney set up an aggressive release schedule for the franchise (I think there was casting for TFA something like six or nine months after the purchase of Lucasfilm), but they don't seem to have had a good plan in place to implement that schedule. And this was with R1 and Solo being probably the easiest and most obvious stand alone stories to tell.
It's like Disney thought that since they were pretty good at making movies and this was Star Wars, then they should have no problems and the whole thing could run on automatic pilot. Hell, I'd think that probably. Turns out thought that having a plan, or even worse, a vision for what you want to do really does help sometimes.
I can't find anything to back it up but I recall seeing something saying the real reason Disney offered Johnson a trilogy all his own even before TLJ came out was because production was like a well-oiled machine compared to JJ.
My dream scenario would have been Finn competing his arc by telling Phasma to shut up and obey his orders so that he can get back to saving everyone's lives, and her grudgingly going along with it.
Warframe/Steam: NFyt
In case you're not joking, ST = Sequel Trilogy, not Star Trek
That thread is a utopia where humanity has become better, while this one is an eternal battle between good and evil. The only commonality between them is J.J. Abrams.
The Star Trek thread is actually pretty similar, it's just the arguments are on a smaller scale. Very few people, for example, seem intent on dying on a hill screaming, "Picard was the best Star Trek series ever and if you didn't like it you're a sexist!" Instead they're like, "Oh hey Picard was fun and cool! I enjoyed it!" while everyone else is like, "Eh it was pretty disappointing and kind of devolved into a mess at the end".
Then we all go back to, "So Riker - that guy fucks, right?" or, "Just how big of a creeper was Geordi?"
Just don't bring up Discovery. Ugh.
I know, I’ve said it before. But I want something new.
Here's my Star Wars Media power rankings:
1. Original Trilogy
2. Zahn Trilogy
3. Tales books
4. X-wing books
What else would people rate here? I've heard some of the comics are quite good, but I haven't read any of them. I know people say Clone Wars and Mandalorian are good, but I have no faith in them right now.
The Zahn trilogy is generally excellent since it has an underdog Empire remnant fighting and winning with smarts, not just huge fleets or another stupid superweapon. Even the addition of the Katana fleet doesn't tip the balance of power fully towards Thrawn's side, he still needs to be tricksy to keep the New Republic locked down around Coruscant. About the worst thing about it is Talon Karrde coming off like a bit too much of a copy of Han Solo, just with a derpier name. Frankly, I'm disappointed that RoS didn't steal Nomad City and use it as one of the stops on the fetch quest.
There are a bunch of "you only really need to watch these episodes" lists floating around, and I might end up resorting to one of those, but yeah. The show gets a lot of praise for how high quality it is, and I feel it's unfair to the uninitiated to not include that disclaimer.
I don't even buy the 'but the highs are better in TCW' because Rebels also had better peaks until maybe the finale of S7 of TCW.
I barely remember the episodes in the middle, but I enjoyed watching them at the time even though I was always waiting for it to get back to the main arc.
I’ll put a good word in for the first two Vader series. The first picks up after ANH and does a great job of keeping Vader at a distance, viewed through the eyes of the people working for him. (It’s also the series that introduces Dr. Aphra and her murdering droids.) The second takes place right after RofS and shows just how messed up Vader was after his transformation. It also has some cool Force stuff that ties in with Rebels.
"I don't want the world, I just want your half"
At first I though it was Darth Vader yelling "You are surrounded" to an entire army. It seemed appropriate too.
Any show? Did you happen to watch the final Clone Wars eps?
The very first episodes of the Clone Wars I ever saw were the ones that were released in theaters. It made me absolutely hate Ahsoka for....well, since then.
I was convinced to try again and watched Clone Wars on Netflix, but even then my friends who were ardent supporters of it were like "start on season 3, first two seasons were trash".
Two entire seasons were considered garbage by fans of the show.
Ahsoka improved dramatically once she wasn't a kid, but it still made me never go above "She's alright" due to the first exposure. Yes, this is a long way of saying I agree. Rebels is better imo. Except for the wolves / trippy stuff near the end in Rebels. Ew.
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I mean, we say the exact same thing about Parks and Recreation and Star Trek: The Next Generation. Season 1 of P&R is downright painful to watch, and the show only gets going when they get rid of Mark Brandanawitz and bring in Chris and Ben at the end of S2. The Riker's Beard index of TNG episode quality demonstrates quantitatively how S1 and S2 sucked; S1 has Code of Honor and The Last Outpost (the only episode AFAIK to get retconned by Enterprise without a single person on the internet complaining about it) and S2 has The Outrageous Okana and Up the Long Ladder and the only clip show episode in Star Trek history. Both shows are still among the best TV shows ever aired.
Not defending Clone Wars, I haven't actually watched it, but that criticism just struck at me.
That was some of the cringiest fanservice crap in the whole EU and an excellent example of why getting rid of the EU wasn't the worst idea.
My favorite part about the caper with Old Laserface (definitely not his name) is that the writer decides to one-up Batman by having Boba Fett plant a power core in the building during the original construction so he can come back years and years later with this one specific dino-cannon dude, get the guy through security by letting them remove his power core, get into a firefight later, bust open the wall, pull out the power core he stashed there, slap it into (the now-corpse of) Turbocannon McGee, and blow everything away.
EU Boba Fett was like trying to win an argument with a five year-old. "Boba Fett gets hit with a lightsaber!" "Nuh-uh, he keeps special armor in that spot!" "Boba Fett gets eaten!" "Nuh-uh, he explodes himself out of the monster using his jetpack!" "Boba Fett gets hopelessly trapped!" "Nuh-uh, he buried secret ammo in that place years ago and brought the special guy with him that can use that ammo!"
So very, very terrible.
Edit: it may be re-yees. He was one of the 3 eyed goat aliens, which is where the confusion comes from.
If I recall the books, I think he had a cordial conversation with the sarlac first, though? Or a hallucination, or something.
But yeah, I never got why Boba Fett was supposed to be so awesome.
What a fool that Jabba was.
The old EU made up a way for that line of dialogue to be literally true, even though it made no sense.
Which is really all you need to know about the EU.
Personally my bet is on the source actually being real, but the leaks being just something someone is suggesting and wants to guage reaction to or use that reaction to push their agenda in some corporate power struggle, but also wants deniability and the option to just abandon the idea if it tests poorly.
I am not.
https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Triclops
https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Trioculus
Triclops has his third eye in the back of his head that's how you tell the difference between them. The Glove of Darth Vader is a weird book.
Not to be confused with the bug-eyed aliens with breathing tubes called Gand
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
If there's one thing in life you should never apologize for, its forgetting the exact name for a very obscure character from the far reaches of a fictional franchise.
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
The notion of a massive creature's digestive track imbuing its prey with some sort of life-extending stasis screams "Fuck evolution, this is just to create a highly convenient version of hell for whatever enterprising mobster slug has enemies to dispose of." Which...almost seems as fitting as it is dumb. Almost. It reminds me of The Looper, a movie everyone around me loves but I find impossible to watch without thinking, "You know, if you have time travel, you can just completely fucking neuter forensic analysis or even relevant police services so it doesn't matter what you do with the bodies." Actually thinking about it does you no favors.
But the Sarlac (Sarlacc?) pit isn't the stupidest thing by a long shot. Gun of command. Because Jedi hynpotizing/brainfucking "lesser people" wasn't off-putting enough by itself, weaponizing it into convenient conceal carry form was necessary.
Adjacent to that, I incorrectly assumed that the point of taking the "expanded universe" literary franchise out behind a shed, shooting and burying it wasn't to rob the graves of anything seemingly valuable a couple years later. "Yes, I know I said 'Fuck Grand Admiral Thrawn' while laughing hysterically while peeling out of my parking space in my Italian supercar, but is there anyway we can bring him back and make him 15 to 20 years younger?"
That being said, people seem to be enjoying all the stuff that's getting cribbed off the corpse of the old canon, which is justification in of itself. Of course, people enjoyed those absurd things back when they were actually new the first time, so I suppose it's funny to think how we might look at this ten or twenty years down the line.
Despite not actually likign Boba Fett as a character, I like that part of Tales of the Bounty Hunter with "Jaster Mereel" outlining his jaded philosophy while presumably chomping on a gigantic cigar in a badly lit space-detective office with a squeaky metal sign outside the door. Him being the best man at the wedding of the idiot bounty hunter who saved his life is actually quite charming. But IG-88 hijacking the second Death Star right before it exploded? Fuck, that's almost as stupid as time-traveling-mirror-bullshit. I think I like the novel less after finishing that particular chapter.