Oh my god, FML. I didn't realize the Arena week ended this early in the evening, and I didn't finish the last couple of fights I would have needed to get to Master V (had to start my Classic WoW raid.) So I'm finishing the week in high Gold I and I need to climb all over again next week, rofl.
What time does the week end, officially? I'm hoping it was at least an hour and ten minutes ago, and not ten minutes ago.
hunt 11s may give you lesser drops with 70s but they extract too. Its not all that bad im still working on a decent set but its going. Not going too hard at it. If I wanted to dedicate more resources to it id have 85s easy by now with extracting and crafting. Thing is I want one of each to have on someone that is at least good for where I am. Injury for my luna. Penetration set or two to throw on single target to test out. And a bruiser speed set for my ravi or ken etc.
I'm waiting to see some folks more into the numbers than I to see what is worth it and what isn't. It seems the revenge set, since it's based only on base speed, is pretty limited in use. DP seems like the best set as it only takes 2 slots but is it worth it over Immunity? And in the case of cleavers like J. Kise who are stat sponges, is it worth it to lower your overall stats?
Regular speed is based off of base speed as well. It seems preferable for bruisers to use revenge as it will provide much more speed as health decreases below 70%.
Maybe, but I'm still waiting on real world results. Generally speaking you don't leave units at low health. So is it worth 1 round of 190 speed vs 160 speed, then your healer heals the bruiser up? Krau is one of the only units I can think of that might benefit from it since he spends a lot of time under 70% and you want to leave him there for his S3. Maybe Sage Baal now as well could use it. Otherwise, your sacrificing early speed for later speed, which I'm not sure how that works in real world situations.
We'll see. Maybe for tanky healers it'll be good, allowing them to cut in as their HP gets lower.
Interesting the math might show that in practice you may get more overall turns under certain dmg loads but, like the speed set vs offset discussion, your bruiser getting a turn when they may not otherwise after being chunked down to under 50%, and by comparison the much high extra combined stat use you get prior to speed set overtaking the offset usage (which may mean taking out a unit you couldnt in a speed set), may prove to be useful in practice.
Maybe, but I'm still waiting on real world results. Generally speaking you don't leave units at low health. So is it worth 1 round of 190 speed vs 160 speed, then your healer heals the bruiser up? Krau is one of the only units I can think of that might benefit from it since he spends a lot of time under 70% and you want to leave him there for his S3. Maybe Sage Baal now as well could use it. Otherwise, your sacrificing early speed for later speed, which I'm not sure how that works in real world situations.
We'll see. Maybe for tanky healers it'll be good, allowing them to cut in as their HP gets lower.
Kayron might like it. Generally he doesn't want much speed but it'd help him outpace the stripper in an enemy team once he's got his immortality and other buffs up and running to begin the slaughterfest.
Just caught up with S3. Man, did these missions turn into a slog lol. So many hit points, I've stopped leveling units and had to go with a real team so each level doesn't take 10 minutes.
S3 C-2 mobs are easier. The bosses are tough, I borrowed for S-tene for Ervalan, Landy I killed her two sidekicks and she wiped my team except for AMomo-so I solo’d her with AMomo.
Luna was tough. For the last boss of chapter 3 bring a dizzy, from a supporter or your own and kill that bomber girl first.
Maybe, but I'm still waiting on real world results. Generally speaking you don't leave units at low health. So is it worth 1 round of 190 speed vs 160 speed, then your healer heals the bruiser up? Krau is one of the only units I can think of that might benefit from it since he spends a lot of time under 70% and you want to leave him there for his S3. Maybe Sage Baal now as well could use it. Otherwise, your sacrificing early speed for later speed, which I'm not sure how that works in real world situations.
We'll see. Maybe for tanky healers it'll be good, allowing them to cut in as their HP gets lower.
Kayron might like it. Generally he doesn't want much speed but it'd help him outpace the stripper in an enemy team once he's got his immortality and other buffs up and running to begin the slaughterfest.
I could also see it used on like Ruele. Or other beefcake healers. Destina etc. The waters origin builds. Combined with an els fist might be fun on some warrior bruisers.
Maybe, but I'm still waiting on real world results. Generally speaking you don't leave units at low health. So is it worth 1 round of 190 speed vs 160 speed, then your healer heals the bruiser up? Krau is one of the only units I can think of that might benefit from it since he spends a lot of time under 70% and you want to leave him there for his S3. Maybe Sage Baal now as well could use it. Otherwise, your sacrificing early speed for later speed, which I'm not sure how that works in real world situations.
We'll see. Maybe for tanky healers it'll be good, allowing them to cut in as their HP gets lower.
Kayron might like it. Generally he doesn't want much speed but it'd help him outpace the stripper in an enemy team once he's got his immortality and other buffs up and running to begin the slaughterfest.
I could also see it used on like Ruele. Or other beefcake healers. Destina etc. The waters origin builds. Combined with an els fist might be fun on some warrior bruisers.
This is probably the best case scenario for it. Ruele or SC Doris where they have WO and are Light bait. So they'll kick it in pretty fast, it'll kick in pretty often, and they usually want to go later to heal up. The downside is using Ruele against non-dark units, she wouldn't be hit as often and in general would be slower.
Maybe, but I'm still waiting on real world results. Generally speaking you don't leave units at low health. So is it worth 1 round of 190 speed vs 160 speed, then your healer heals the bruiser up? Krau is one of the only units I can think of that might benefit from it since he spends a lot of time under 70% and you want to leave him there for his S3. Maybe Sage Baal now as well could use it. Otherwise, your sacrificing early speed for later speed, which I'm not sure how that works in real world situations.
We'll see. Maybe for tanky healers it'll be good, allowing them to cut in as their HP gets lower.
Kayron might like it. Generally he doesn't want much speed but it'd help him outpace the stripper in an enemy team once he's got his immortality and other buffs up and running to begin the slaughterfest.
I could also see it used on like Ruele. Or other beefcake healers. Destina etc. The waters origin builds. Combined with an els fist might be fun on some warrior bruisers.
This is probably the best case scenario for it. Ruele or SC Doris where they have WO and are Light bait. So they'll kick it in pretty fast, it'll kick in pretty often, and they usually want to go later to heal up. The downside is using Ruele against non-dark units, she wouldn't be hit as often and in general would be slower.
The value goes up in rta as people will go after ruele in rta if you do that but I dont so not as big a value jump for me.
The most intensive form of PvP I do nowadays is Guild Wars, and even that's just throwing the same 6-8 units at whatever I think I can handle without losing people.
Also the only form of PvP I do. Arena I haven't battled anyone in months and RTA can get fucked.
I think the jury is still out in revenge set. We will have to see real world applications to see how useful it will be. The one person that really jumps to my mind is krau as others have mentioned. Getting him a turn when he is in horse range is very important.
The problem with putting revenge set on a healer is that they often get ignored and then you are just turn cycling more slowly.
Def pen set only works on single target, so it won’t be great on primarily aoe units like jkise. I think def pen will shine on ML Lulu. Someone mentioned that def pen gives less dps than crit set would under 1200 def, but above that defense def pen set gives better value. This would be perfect for ML lulu since she won’t mind the slight damage loss on targets below 1200 def since she explodes them anyways. Def pen set could help her finish off tanky arbys.
Damn, Charles is insane on defense. Found a team of Charles, SSB, Crimson Armin and Diene. Not only was the SSB tanky enough to survive my C. Dom shot (this is very unusual at these Arena ranks), but so was Charles. With 15k HP and clearly a pretty good pile of attack/crit damage, AND wearing a counter set, he still had enough Defense to only take 9k from the same C. Dom shot.
I don't usually lose to defense teams if I decide to challenge them a second time, lol. Charles makes me very cautious, and D. Corvus makes me refresh.
Eh I dont think the jury is out at all. If you are not in the top 1% then there will be benefits to each of the new offsets just like the other offsets. In the areas we have discussed like bait heroes. In your no healer bruiser comps. Aurius tanks. SSB frontliners. In general bruiser comps for specific healers or tanks or bruisers against the wholly common cleave bruiser comps we see in pvp. Ive watched a few people test it out and it does what you need it to do. If your individual equipped with it gets chunked they will most likely cut. That is strong.
Damn, Charles is insane on defense. Found a team of Charles, SSB, Crimson Armin and Diene. Not only was the SSB tanky enough to survive my C. Dom shot (this is very unusual at these Arena ranks), but so was Charles. With 15k HP and clearly a pretty good pile of attack/crit damage, AND wearing a counter set, he still had enough Defense to only take 9k from the same C. Dom shot.
I don't usually lose to defense teams if I decide to challenge them a second time, lol. Charles makes me very cautious, and D. Corvus makes me refresh.
Yeah that gets more common the higher you get up. The groups solidify to chunky thick teams with evasion characters and/or charles. But in challenger the def teams are changing again. Ive seen some armins, ml rin is more common now, and even some Adlays. The adlay team almost worked too. Was with dizzy, ml violet, charles. That team almost worked against me.
On the plus side I hit Master V, so I can cool my jets a little bit. I'll probably try to climb to IV before switching to NPCs for the rest of the week.
Damn, Charles is insane on defense. Found a team of Charles, SSB, Crimson Armin and Diene. Not only was the SSB tanky enough to survive my C. Dom shot (this is very unusual at these Arena ranks), but so was Charles. With 15k HP and clearly a pretty good pile of attack/crit damage, AND wearing a counter set, he still had enough Defense to only take 9k from the same C. Dom shot.
I don't usually lose to defense teams if I decide to challenge them a second time, lol. Charles makes me very cautious, and D. Corvus makes me refresh.
Used to be the default Arena Auto battle team. Roana really neutered that comp though.
Damn, Charles is insane on defense. Found a team of Charles, SSB, Crimson Armin and Diene. Not only was the SSB tanky enough to survive my C. Dom shot (this is very unusual at these Arena ranks), but so was Charles. With 15k HP and clearly a pretty good pile of attack/crit damage, AND wearing a counter set, he still had enough Defense to only take 9k from the same C. Dom shot.
I don't usually lose to defense teams if I decide to challenge them a second time, lol. Charles makes me very cautious, and D. Corvus makes me refresh.
Used to be the default Arena Auto battle team. Roana really neutered that comp though.
My cermia destroys almost all charles right now too. With penetration set i imagine she will destroy the remainder.
Eh I dont think the jury is out at all. If you are not in the top 1% then there will be benefits to each of the new offsets just like the other offsets. In the areas we have discussed like bait heroes. In your no healer bruiser comps. Aurius tanks. SSB frontliners. In general bruiser comps for specific healers or tanks or bruisers against the wholly common cleave bruiser comps we see in pvp. Ive watched a few people test it out and it does what you need it to do. If your individual equipped with it gets chunked they will most likely cut. That is strong.
I think it's still too early to really say that. I think all the sets will have a use, but it's still quite early to see where they fit and where folks determine they make sense (which is what "the jury is still out" means, decisions haven't been made). Technically Unity sets have a use, but they are super niche. Same could be for one or more of the new sets.
Eh I dont think the jury is out at all. If you are not in the top 1% then there will be benefits to each of the new offsets just like the other offsets. In the areas we have discussed like bait heroes. In your no healer bruiser comps. Aurius tanks. SSB frontliners. In general bruiser comps for specific healers or tanks or bruisers against the wholly common cleave bruiser comps we see in pvp. Ive watched a few people test it out and it does what you need it to do. If your individual equipped with it gets chunked they will most likely cut. That is strong.
I think it's still too early to really say that. I think all the sets will have a use, but it's still quite early to see where they fit and where folks determine they make sense (which is what "the jury is still out" means, decisions haven't been made). Technically Unity sets have a use, but they are super niche. Same could be for one or more of the new sets.
I dont think they compare to unity at all. Dual attack is a low proc chance. All of these are flat benefits. For me they all have uses and that is why im farming them. But I will just leave it there rather than argue semantics. I have already stated my opinion of offset value and provided evidence. Once I get a good penetration set my cermia will destroy pretty much everything. She already hits stupid hard. My injury set is getting there for my luna and ive seen it work pretty good from some friends on single target heroes against the meta. My first targets for revenge were my bait heroes like inquisitor and sc doris etc.
Yeah if you find a use for them, that's great. I'm just want to know the specifics really. Cermia for example has some ceiling of stats, if you have perfect gear, here's her stats. The question is if you give up say CC set for DP, her total of stats are going to go down (no different than immunity sets). What I'm interested in then is what defense number does the enemy unit have to have before DP makes sense over CC. And that's why I'd say the jury is still out. Going by revenge set numbers so far, there will be a threshold where it makes sense over speed. So I'd assume the same for DP, but right now I've not seen those put out there.
Yeah if you find a use for them, that's great. I'm just want to know the specifics really. Cermia for example has some ceiling of stats, if you have perfect gear, here's her stats. The question is if you give up say CC set for DP, her total of stats are going to go down (no different than immunity sets). What I'm interested in then is what defense number does the enemy unit have to have before DP makes sense over CC. And that's why I'd say the jury is still out. Going by revenge set numbers so far, there will be a threshold where it makes sense over speed. So I'd assume the same for DP, but right now I've not seen those put out there.
Yeah I agree. Immunity is a big thing for the ability to have varied comps. That is objectively true. But in a world where you can have aoe immunity on leads or support heroes you dont have to rely as hard on them. They have been putting in much more tools to make offsets more valuable (bastion buff is nuts for this too). And ive been using it since I have those tools. It is all up to how you want to play the game really. Ive made it up to high challenger/low champ doing what I do so hey it is not really unsubstantial. That is my goal in the game too so it works for me. My cermia is on attack crit. So I just have to make up the crit with the penetration and she will be vastly superior. I just plugged it into the damage calc to be sure and it is like a 16% dmg boost.
Eh I dont think the jury is out at all. If you are not in the top 1% then there will be benefits to each of the new offsets just like the other offsets. In the areas we have discussed like bait heroes. In your no healer bruiser comps. Aurius tanks. SSB frontliners. In general bruiser comps for specific healers or tanks or bruisers against the wholly common cleave bruiser comps we see in pvp. Ive watched a few people test it out and it does what you need it to do. If your individual equipped with it gets chunked they will most likely cut. That is strong.
My above comments are just pointing out that these are brand new sets and (like everything else in this game) it takes time to see how good they are and in what situations they will shine. I didn’t think that would be a controversial statement.
Also, just about everything works against AI controlled heroes with bad gear so I’m not sure what the point of a critical analysis of such situations is.
Lastly, revenge set is a main (4 piece set) and not an offset.
Eh I dont think the jury is out at all. If you are not in the top 1% then there will be benefits to each of the new offsets just like the other offsets. In the areas we have discussed like bait heroes. In your no healer bruiser comps. Aurius tanks. SSB frontliners. In general bruiser comps for specific healers or tanks or bruisers against the wholly common cleave bruiser comps we see in pvp. Ive watched a few people test it out and it does what you need it to do. If your individual equipped with it gets chunked they will most likely cut. That is strong.
My above comments are just pointing out that these are brand new sets and (like everything else in this game) it takes time to see how good they are and in what situations they will shine. I didn’t think that would be a controversial statement.
Also, just about everything works against AI controlled heroes with bad gear so I’m not sure what the point of a critical analysis of such situations is.
Because that is the core point for most of us. I have yet to see the numbers on RTA for the population but they are typically low in in all gachas. And anecdotal evidence shows people doing rta is low here too. I dont get led so I am farming them because I see high value in all of the sets.
Oh and btw just a repost for those that may be new. If you have problems with Krau, which is common, SC inquisitor is a very nice way to deal with him. Built properly he can do real dmg too.
Eh I dont think the jury is out at all. If you are not in the top 1% then there will be benefits to each of the new offsets just like the other offsets. In the areas we have discussed like bait heroes. In your no healer bruiser comps. Aurius tanks. SSB frontliners. In general bruiser comps for specific healers or tanks or bruisers against the wholly common cleave bruiser comps we see in pvp. Ive watched a few people test it out and it does what you need it to do. If your individual equipped with it gets chunked they will most likely cut. That is strong.
My above comments are just pointing out that these are brand new sets and (like everything else in this game) it takes time to see how good they are and in what situations they will shine. I didn’t think that would be a controversial statement.
Also, just about everything works against AI controlled heroes with bad gear so I’m not sure what the point of a critical analysis of such situations is.
Because that is the core point for most of us. I have yet to see the numbers on RTA for the population but they are typically low in in all gachas. And anecdotal evidence shows people doing rta is low here too. I dont get led so I am farming them because I see high value in all of the sets.
You use the fact that I play RTA to completely dismiss my opinions on almost every post I make. I can evaluate other parts of the game as I play those too and have progressed through all levels of content.
You have pointed out that virtually all heroes are good/most gear combinations work at low levels and any opinion to the contrary is dismissed as “you’re min maxing and we aren’t doing that.” Well, either decisions matter or they don’t. If everything is great and viable there is no point in discussing nuance at any level.
The alternative is that these decisions do make a difference. In which case, you are making a decision to farm hunt 11 which has demonstrably lower drop rates and return for energy spent.
Eh I dont think the jury is out at all. If you are not in the top 1% then there will be benefits to each of the new offsets just like the other offsets. In the areas we have discussed like bait heroes. In your no healer bruiser comps. Aurius tanks. SSB frontliners. In general bruiser comps for specific healers or tanks or bruisers against the wholly common cleave bruiser comps we see in pvp. Ive watched a few people test it out and it does what you need it to do. If your individual equipped with it gets chunked they will most likely cut. That is strong.
My above comments are just pointing out that these are brand new sets and (like everything else in this game) it takes time to see how good they are and in what situations they will shine. I didn’t think that would be a controversial statement.
Also, just about everything works against AI controlled heroes with bad gear so I’m not sure what the point of a critical analysis of such situations is.
Because that is the core point for most of us. I have yet to see the numbers on RTA for the population but they are typically low in in all gachas. And anecdotal evidence shows people doing rta is low here too. I dont get led so I am farming them because I see high value in all of the sets.
You use the fact that I play RTA to completely dismiss my opinions on almost every post I make. I can evaluate other parts of the game as I play those too and have progressed through all levels of content.
You have pointed out that virtually all heroes are good/most gear combinations work at low levels and any opinion to the contrary is dismissed as “you’re min maxing and we aren’t doing that.” Well, either decisions matter or they don’t. If everything is great and viable there is no point in discussing nuance at any level.
The alternative is that these decisions do make a difference. In which case, you are making a decision to farm hunt 11 which has demonstrably lower drop rates and return for energy spent.
No I use RTA and that you use meta slave opinions to state that your opinions are biased. There is a difference. I am not saying they are bad. They apply to you and your goals in the game. Those goals not being on par with the greater part of the population. The great flaw in your logic is that you want to min/max and that the math shows that "eventually" speed is the best. Well the great flaw is that in those number of turns before speed outstrips offsets (math showing 4,5,6 turns down the line before it equals or barely passes the output) are doing much more dmg. That is something that is never said in those "analyses".
I am making the choice because there is value in the sets and I want to farm them because I want a pen set for a couple of my single target dmg dealers (who are in offsets). I want some revenge sets for my bruiser sets (healers/tanks/perhaps a bruiser or two) because i want to have fun with the sc doris cut or inquisitor cut. I have set goals and I dont care about the meta. I have several meta heroes ungeared right now (ml ken, kayron, elena...). I regularly beat top 500 defenses in gw. And arena in near end game sets.
All im saying is that if those are your goals in the game.... then perhaps rethink your farming methods. Because you may burn yourself out of the game needlessly. The differences between them are miniscule in that area.
No I use RTA and that you use meta slave opinions to state that your opinions are biased. There is a difference. I am not saying they are bad. They apply to you and your goals in the game. Those goals not being on par with the greater part of the population.
The only thing that informs my opinions is performance. I want to use what is best. I don’t presume to know what the majority of players want and I also don’t presume to speak for them.
The great flaw in your logic is that you want to min/max and that the math shows that "eventually" speed is the best. Well the great flaw is that in those number of turns before speed outstrips offsets (math showing 4,5,6 turns down the line before it equals or barely passes the output) are doing much more dmg. That is something that is never said in those "analyses".
If this was your take away from our discussion about speed then I failed to clarify my position or you entirely missed the point (or both).
I’ll break down one example to hopefully illustrate what I was talking about. I will use Iseria for this example. She has a base speed of 112. Speed set gives her 25% of this, which is 28 speed. Max roll for speed is 4 (5 is so rare I don’t count it). Therefore speed set gives her 28/4 = 7 max rolls worth of stats. Attack set gives 35% attack. Max attack roll is 8%. 35/8 = 4.375 max rolls worth of stats. HP set gives 15%. 2x HP sets therefore gives 30/8 = 3.75 max rolls worth of stats.
So when building iseria you can use speed set and get higher overall stats than attack set, assuming equal rolls for both sets. How many max rolls speed set gives a hero will depend on their base speed, but for the vast majority of heroes it is higher than the golem sets.
This is true wherever you are in the game.
I am making the choice because there is value in the sets
All sets have value. We were discussing how much value these new sets have compared to the old sets.
I have several meta heroes ungeared right now (ml ken, kayron, elena...)
None of those are meta right now.
All im saying is that if those are your goals in the game.... then perhaps rethink your farming methods. Because you may burn yourself out of the game needlessly. The differences between them are miniscule in that area.
Why would I rethink my farming methods? Farming is farming to me. I will farm what works best as that accomplished my goal.
I feel like I should know this, but what's the smartest thing to do with halfway enhanced gear that turns out to be crap? Folding them into new gear doesn't seem to be worth it because it seems to cost way more to fold in upgraded gear into a new enhancement than just folding in a whole bunch of fodder. Selling it doesn't really seem worth it either. What do you guys do?
For example, I made the mistake of maxing the Uberid (level 47, I think) set back in the day and it's just sitting there in my inventory, mocking me.
Extracting it doesn't get you any extra cores, I think, and selling it/using it for charm crafting fodder doesn't seem to matter. You can reclaim a big chunk of experience by using it as enhance fodder, but it does cost a bunch of gold, yes.
Extracting it doesn't get you any extra cores, I think, and selling it/using it for charm crafting fodder doesn't seem to matter. You can reclaim a big chunk of experience by using it as enhance fodder, but it does cost a bunch of gold, yes.
It should. I made a post way back on reddit showing how many cores you get per type and level. Sell is the same regardless, 25k at +0 and at +15 for epic. Charms are one of the hardest things to keep in this game since you need them just to see if your gear is good or not. So I always use them as fodder for other gear.
Extracting it doesn't get you any extra cores, I think, and selling it/using it for charm crafting fodder doesn't seem to matter. You can reclaim a big chunk of experience by using it as enhance fodder, but it does cost a bunch of gold, yes.
It should. I made a post way back on reddit showing how many cores you get per type and level. Sell is the same regardless, 25k at +0 and at +15 for epic. Charms are one of the hardest things to keep in this game since you need them just to see if your gear is good or not. So I always use them as fodder for other gear.
Can I extract low level stuff like the Uberid set though? If I can then that's what I'll do, lemme check...
Nope. Anything below 60 is no bueno. Expensive fodder it is... I... guess? Feels like a waste of gold.
Fuck it. I just sold them. Barely worth it, but using them as fodder just didn't make sense.
Posts
What time does the week end, officially? I'm hoping it was at least an hour and ten minutes ago, and not ten minutes ago.
Inquisitor77: Rius, you are Sisyphus and melee Wizard is your boulder
Tube: This must be what it felt like to be an Iraqi when Saddam was killed
Bookish Stickers - Mrs. Rius' Etsy shop with bumper stickers and vinyl decals.
Has anyone done the math on the def pen set yet? I feel like it could be really strong on ML lulu.
I actually had to look at the bosses skills for S3 since the comps I brought initially were insta-lose ha.
We'll see. Maybe for tanky healers it'll be good, allowing them to cut in as their HP gets lower.
Kayron might like it. Generally he doesn't want much speed but it'd help him outpace the stripper in an enemy team once he's got his immortality and other buffs up and running to begin the slaughterfest.
Luna was tough. For the last boss of chapter 3 bring a dizzy, from a supporter or your own and kill that bomber girl first.
I could also see it used on like Ruele. Or other beefcake healers. Destina etc. The waters origin builds. Combined with an els fist might be fun on some warrior bruisers.
This is probably the best case scenario for it. Ruele or SC Doris where they have WO and are Light bait. So they'll kick it in pretty fast, it'll kick in pretty often, and they usually want to go later to heal up. The downside is using Ruele against non-dark units, she wouldn't be hit as often and in general would be slower.
The value goes up in rta as people will go after ruele in rta if you do that but I dont so not as big a value jump for me.
Also the only form of PvP I do. Arena I haven't battled anyone in months and RTA can get fucked.
The problem with putting revenge set on a healer is that they often get ignored and then you are just turn cycling more slowly.
Def pen set only works on single target, so it won’t be great on primarily aoe units like jkise. I think def pen will shine on ML Lulu. Someone mentioned that def pen gives less dps than crit set would under 1200 def, but above that defense def pen set gives better value. This would be perfect for ML lulu since she won’t mind the slight damage loss on targets below 1200 def since she explodes them anyways. Def pen set could help her finish off tanky arbys.
I don't usually lose to defense teams if I decide to challenge them a second time, lol. Charles makes me very cautious, and D. Corvus makes me refresh.
Inquisitor77: Rius, you are Sisyphus and melee Wizard is your boulder
Tube: This must be what it felt like to be an Iraqi when Saddam was killed
Bookish Stickers - Mrs. Rius' Etsy shop with bumper stickers and vinyl decals.
Yeah that gets more common the higher you get up. The groups solidify to chunky thick teams with evasion characters and/or charles. But in challenger the def teams are changing again. Ive seen some armins, ml rin is more common now, and even some Adlays. The adlay team almost worked too. Was with dizzy, ml violet, charles. That team almost worked against me.
Inquisitor77: Rius, you are Sisyphus and melee Wizard is your boulder
Tube: This must be what it felt like to be an Iraqi when Saddam was killed
Bookish Stickers - Mrs. Rius' Etsy shop with bumper stickers and vinyl decals.
Used to be the default Arena Auto battle team. Roana really neutered that comp though.
My cermia destroys almost all charles right now too. With penetration set i imagine she will destroy the remainder.
I think it's still too early to really say that. I think all the sets will have a use, but it's still quite early to see where they fit and where folks determine they make sense (which is what "the jury is still out" means, decisions haven't been made). Technically Unity sets have a use, but they are super niche. Same could be for one or more of the new sets.
I dont think they compare to unity at all. Dual attack is a low proc chance. All of these are flat benefits. For me they all have uses and that is why im farming them. But I will just leave it there rather than argue semantics. I have already stated my opinion of offset value and provided evidence. Once I get a good penetration set my cermia will destroy pretty much everything. She already hits stupid hard. My injury set is getting there for my luna and ive seen it work pretty good from some friends on single target heroes against the meta. My first targets for revenge were my bait heroes like inquisitor and sc doris etc.
Yeah I agree. Immunity is a big thing for the ability to have varied comps. That is objectively true. But in a world where you can have aoe immunity on leads or support heroes you dont have to rely as hard on them. They have been putting in much more tools to make offsets more valuable (bastion buff is nuts for this too). And ive been using it since I have those tools. It is all up to how you want to play the game really. Ive made it up to high challenger/low champ doing what I do so hey it is not really unsubstantial. That is my goal in the game too so it works for me. My cermia is on attack crit. So I just have to make up the crit with the penetration and she will be vastly superior. I just plugged it into the damage calc to be sure and it is like a 16% dmg boost.
My above comments are just pointing out that these are brand new sets and (like everything else in this game) it takes time to see how good they are and in what situations they will shine. I didn’t think that would be a controversial statement.
Also, just about everything works against AI controlled heroes with bad gear so I’m not sure what the point of a critical analysis of such situations is.
Lastly, revenge set is a main (4 piece set) and not an offset.
Because that is the core point for most of us. I have yet to see the numbers on RTA for the population but they are typically low in in all gachas. And anecdotal evidence shows people doing rta is low here too. I dont get led so I am farming them because I see high value in all of the sets.
You use the fact that I play RTA to completely dismiss my opinions on almost every post I make. I can evaluate other parts of the game as I play those too and have progressed through all levels of content.
You have pointed out that virtually all heroes are good/most gear combinations work at low levels and any opinion to the contrary is dismissed as “you’re min maxing and we aren’t doing that.” Well, either decisions matter or they don’t. If everything is great and viable there is no point in discussing nuance at any level.
The alternative is that these decisions do make a difference. In which case, you are making a decision to farm hunt 11 which has demonstrably lower drop rates and return for energy spent.
No I use RTA and that you use meta slave opinions to state that your opinions are biased. There is a difference. I am not saying they are bad. They apply to you and your goals in the game. Those goals not being on par with the greater part of the population. The great flaw in your logic is that you want to min/max and that the math shows that "eventually" speed is the best. Well the great flaw is that in those number of turns before speed outstrips offsets (math showing 4,5,6 turns down the line before it equals or barely passes the output) are doing much more dmg. That is something that is never said in those "analyses".
I am making the choice because there is value in the sets and I want to farm them because I want a pen set for a couple of my single target dmg dealers (who are in offsets). I want some revenge sets for my bruiser sets (healers/tanks/perhaps a bruiser or two) because i want to have fun with the sc doris cut or inquisitor cut. I have set goals and I dont care about the meta. I have several meta heroes ungeared right now (ml ken, kayron, elena...). I regularly beat top 500 defenses in gw. And arena in near end game sets.
All im saying is that if those are your goals in the game.... then perhaps rethink your farming methods. Because you may burn yourself out of the game needlessly. The differences between them are miniscule in that area.
The only thing that informs my opinions is performance. I want to use what is best. I don’t presume to know what the majority of players want and I also don’t presume to speak for them.
If this was your take away from our discussion about speed then I failed to clarify my position or you entirely missed the point (or both).
I’ll break down one example to hopefully illustrate what I was talking about. I will use Iseria for this example. She has a base speed of 112. Speed set gives her 25% of this, which is 28 speed. Max roll for speed is 4 (5 is so rare I don’t count it). Therefore speed set gives her 28/4 = 7 max rolls worth of stats. Attack set gives 35% attack. Max attack roll is 8%. 35/8 = 4.375 max rolls worth of stats. HP set gives 15%. 2x HP sets therefore gives 30/8 = 3.75 max rolls worth of stats.
So when building iseria you can use speed set and get higher overall stats than attack set, assuming equal rolls for both sets. How many max rolls speed set gives a hero will depend on their base speed, but for the vast majority of heroes it is higher than the golem sets.
This is true wherever you are in the game.
All sets have value. We were discussing how much value these new sets have compared to the old sets.
None of those are meta right now.
Why would I rethink my farming methods? Farming is farming to me. I will farm what works best as that accomplished my goal.
For example, I made the mistake of maxing the Uberid (level 47, I think) set back in the day and it's just sitting there in my inventory, mocking me.
Inquisitor77: Rius, you are Sisyphus and melee Wizard is your boulder
Tube: This must be what it felt like to be an Iraqi when Saddam was killed
Bookish Stickers - Mrs. Rius' Etsy shop with bumper stickers and vinyl decals.
It should. I made a post way back on reddit showing how many cores you get per type and level. Sell is the same regardless, 25k at +0 and at +15 for epic. Charms are one of the hardest things to keep in this game since you need them just to see if your gear is good or not. So I always use them as fodder for other gear.
Inquisitor77: Rius, you are Sisyphus and melee Wizard is your boulder
Tube: This must be what it felt like to be an Iraqi when Saddam was killed
Bookish Stickers - Mrs. Rius' Etsy shop with bumper stickers and vinyl decals.
Can I extract low level stuff like the Uberid set though? If I can then that's what I'll do, lemme check...
Nope. Anything below 60 is no bueno. Expensive fodder it is... I... guess? Feels like a waste of gold.
Fuck it. I just sold them. Barely worth it, but using them as fodder just didn't make sense.