I mean I could probably just swap the Ashnod's for Altar of Dementia and sidestep most issues then? I know it's possible to go infinite that way but the mana outlet is probably much more valuable.
I mean, I don't think Altar of Dementia actually does anything in your deck. I only see Altar of Dementia in self-mill or as part of an infinite combo. If you find you need more sac outlets, I'd probably go with another creature based one like Bloodflow Connoisseur or Cartel Aristocrat. At least with those you get +1 counters or an indestructible blocker for your sacrificed creature.
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ChaosHatHop, hop, hop, HA!Trick of the lightRegistered Userregular
edited July 2020
I figured the Altar is just more difficult to remove relative to the creatures.
I'll say proxies are something I feel overall iffy on personally, and I feel like I'd need a decklist to play in the event someone isn't okay with that. I guess if I could make really good, sharp looking proxies that would help.
ChaosHat on
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Kevin CristI make the devil hit his kneesand say the 'our father'Registered Userregular
Sadly, there are not a ton of artifact/enchantment free sacrifice outlets that don't provide absurd value or nothing. Martyr's Cause fits the bill for having a minor beneficial effect but mostly just being a sac outlet that doesn't die to board wipes
I don't hate this as much as some of the replies do, but I would rather just pay for packs directly.
I mean, nothing stops people from paying the gold for the event entry, selecting their 2 packs and then resigning. That still works out to 1k gold per pack which is the same as a standard pack and while you don't have duplicate protection for the rares, you have your choice of packs.
Sadly, there are not a ton of artifact/enchantment free sacrifice outlets that don't provide absurd value or nothing. Martyr's Cause fits the bill for having a minor beneficial effect but mostly just being a sac outlet that doesn't die to board wipes
There's also Spawning Pit, though counters/token generation might potentially make opponents nervous. Fanatical Devotion is another white one, and I think (?) you can activate it and just target the creature you're going to sacrifice and the regenerate effect will fizzle, if you just want a no-strings sac outlet.
Sadly, there are not a ton of artifact/enchantment free sacrifice outlets that don't provide absurd value or nothing. Martyr's Cause fits the bill for having a minor beneficial effect but mostly just being a sac outlet that doesn't die to board wipes
There's also Spawning Pit, though counters/token generation might potentially make opponents nervous. Fanatical Devotion is another white one, and I think (?) you can activate it and just target the creature you're going to sacrifice and the regenerate effect will fizzle, if you just want a no-strings sac outlet.
Spawning pit and devotion are in the deck already I think.
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ChaosHatHop, hop, hop, HA!Trick of the lightRegistered Userregular
Sadly, there are not a ton of artifact/enchantment free sacrifice outlets that don't provide absurd value or nothing. Martyr's Cause fits the bill for having a minor beneficial effect but mostly just being a sac outlet that doesn't die to board wipes
There's also Spawning Pit, though counters/token generation might potentially make opponents nervous. Fanatical Devotion is another white one, and I think (?) you can activate it and just target the creature you're going to sacrifice and the regenerate effect will fizzle, if you just want a no-strings sac outlet.
Spawning pit and devotion are in the deck already I think.
They are indeed.
I've reflected on the proxies and I think I understand what makes me feel off about them. To be clear, I don't think I would ever give a shit about proxies as long as they're clear. Like I just wouldn't care at all if someone had them. Maybe if they printed out absolutely broken shit and played it but then that's more of a concern of them not reading the room and playing something appropriate than a proxy problem.
I think a lot of it is a bit of insecurity and then maybe not knowing what's considered acceptable or reasonable. Is there some point at which enough is enough, like a percentage of deck or a card value amount or something? It also feels like if you proxy some things, is there a point at which you stop? I mean, why proxy steam vents when you can have volcanic island? Does anyone actually care?
I also know this is more up to the individual play groups but as someone who doesn't actually have one but would like to find/make one when it's acceptable to public health, it'd be nice if there were generally accepted best practices.
Proxies are definitely extremely group dependent. Proxying ABUR duals is a strange one, as like Ashnod's Altar or Jhoira in the command zone, they might not be broken on their own but they signal a deck power/level of threat above where you might be at (i.e. anybody proxying/playing duals is probably playing a budgetless deck with powerful interactions). I've seen 5C decks with 10 ABUR duals that were haymaker.dek trashfires, but that's the exception rather than the rule.
cEDH tends to be super proxy friendly as a rule but that's also not what you want to play, I imagine. Other groups range from willing, to annoyed, to "only if you own it in another deck", to "no proxies and swap cards between decks", dependent on scene.
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ChaosHatHop, hop, hop, HA!Trick of the lightRegistered Userregular
Swap cards between decks people must be kind of tools because that's just time wasted for no reason. You know they own it!
The proxies conversation is weird to me because I learnt to play magic way back when up in Yellowknife where you were lucky to see a box of product a month, so very early on a bunch of us chipped in and bought like 2k white border plains , and some duelist magazine card lists.
Which causes more ire, actual Tabernacle or proxy Tabernacle?
I had more fun with a proxy tabernacle because I convinced the player running it to let me rip it to pieces when I strip mined it.
I ate an engineer
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ChaosHatHop, hop, hop, HA!Trick of the lightRegistered Userregular
edited July 2020
Okay, I watched a lot of youtube videos about Teysa and then also realized I have a contact lens mail in rebate card coming so I've decided to drop some extra cash into a theoretical build and I think I've found a happy medium between budget and power and all that. Here is the link again. Thanks again for everyone who had suggestions. I think long term upgrade goals would probably be some tutors? They'll always be good in any deck. Or a Wurmcoil Engine seems like it would be preposterously good in this.
I also figured that lands are probably the best/easiest proxy. If someone has beef, I'll just make the backing card a basic or tap land and then, HUZZAH! It's easy and legal no muss no fuss. It's also a weird kind of power level bump. It's not cool or flashy or overly salt generating, but it does just make the deck more consistent and play, optimal? I guess they're not really getting you ahead in the game, they're just ensuring you don't fall behind.
Last, @milski, I realized that Luminous Broodmoth is probably almost as good or maybe even better than Mikaeus? It's cheaper (mana and cash), easier to cast and works on all creatures, and the anthem effect is probably a wash with the flying? Also is this card used in anything competitive or is the price purely for commander? I couldn't find a competitive standard or modern deck that explained why it's sooooo expensive.
Mikaeus goes infinite with any persist creature while Broodmoth doesn't, but mostly it's that Mikaeus is older and fits in mono black, yes. Broodmoth is still extremely good. The anthem on Milkaeus plus kill effect is stronger than flying though.
Mikaeus also goes infinite with some other good Commander cards. Including this guy, my third favorite sleeper Commander card, who only requires a free sacrifice outlet to kill all of your opponent's shit every turn.
Look deep enough in Magic, and you'll find all sorts of weird bullshit interactions that weren't intended at the time when certain cards were printed, but end up becoming the spice that makes EDH worth the playing
"Go down, kick ass, and set yourselves up as gods, that's our Prime Directive!"
Mikaeus the Unhallowed+Walking Ballista is also a two-card 6CMC commander+0CMC card combo that just instantly wins the game via infinite damage to any number of targets
but also, well, those two cards are probably going to put you back $57 on their own, and honestly there's just so many cards that go infinite in some way with Mike that it's kind of absurd
Mikaeus the Unhallowed+Walking Ballista is also a two-card 6CMC commander+0CMC card combo that just instantly wins the game via infinite damage to any number of targets
but also, well, those two cards are probably going to put you back $57 on their own, and honestly there's just so many cards that go infinite in some way with Mike that it's kind of absurd
Incorrect. Ballista+Mike needs a sac outlet, so it's a 3 card combo.
Mikaeus the Unhallowed+Walking Ballista is also a two-card 6CMC commander+0CMC card combo that just instantly wins the game via infinite damage to any number of targets
but also, well, those two cards are probably going to put you back $57 on their own, and honestly there's just so many cards that go infinite in some way with Mike that it's kind of absurd
Incorrect. Ballista+Mike needs a sac outlet, so it's a 3 card combo.
Ah, I completely forgot that Mike's a +1/+1 lord in addition to the undying. That makes a lot more sense, thanks.
I guess you can still run something like Cinderhaze Wretch to discard everyone's hands, but that's not as fun (at least with instant win combos it's over, while with infinite discards it's just solitaire for half an hour)
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SnicketysnickThe Greatest Hype Man inWesterosRegistered Userregular
edited July 2020
Living the dream Shrine Vs Shrine
kudos to my opponent for making me draw a load of cards off their folio, it really helped me out!
ChaosHatHop, hop, hop, HA!Trick of the lightRegistered Userregular
So, since I feel Teysa is in an alright spot at the moment I figure it's on to the next idea! I'm not sure when I'll build it, but I decided it would be cool to have a few decks around so if I had people over, I could just supply the four decks if needed, with maybe some extra for variety, so I might as well have a list semi ready, plus it's fun. Since I have Gavi (although I may yet change her to Zur for cycling) and Kalamax, I figure I should get something that tries to play fatties. My initial thought was Atla Palani since that seems hilarious, but I think my friend will end up building that so might as well try something different. I then thought about Mayael but I don't think there's any way she doesn't just feel like a terrible Atla. Next was Yisan since that sounds like the good version of Mayael, but apparently he's hilariously broken.
So now I'm thinking Yeva since flashing everything out seems amusing, or maybe something Simic-y. Tatyova, Rashmi, or Vannifar are kind of on my list. Tatyova seems...expensive since it seems like the "play lots of lands!" strategy is pretty popular, you'd need Azusa, Swordtooth, Oracle of Muldaya, Dryad of the Ilysian Grove, lots of $10+ cards to make her sing. Vannifar seems more like a fair Yisan but you get to play blue. I'm kind of afraid Rashmi will play pretty similar to Kalamax being an instants matter commander in 2/3 colors. I'm rough drafting Yeva and it seems like a lot of people play a lot of elves with her and I have to wonder how good that even is. In a format where everyone is running at least a few board wipes it seems like having a lot of your mana ramp tied up in elves is strictly worse than just ramping out lands.
It's also amusing to me that Great Henge and Growing Rites of Itlimoc already need reprints (despite one of those being currently printed).
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UnbrokenEvaHIGH ON THE WIREBUT I WON'T TRIP ITRegistered Userregular
so I hit a new rank floor and decided to experiment with some new/janky decks
do you know what feels really good? Playing GW Kitties and smashing ovens with cats thanks to Feline Sovereign. The catharsis, my god.
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turtleantGunpla Dadis the best.Registered Userregular
Arena has been updated, which means Jumpstart is now available, but there also seems to be a problem with the store right now, the gold and gem values for some card style bundles seem to be swapped. If you're into them and have to gold, these are very good deals:
There's no way aurelia the war leader angel/extra combat tribal is actually any good right?
It's solid for low power battle cruiser environments as it pretty consistently goes over the top of other durdly creature piles, the same way infect is solid. Past that, no.
There's no way aurelia the war leader angel/extra combat tribal is actually any good right?
It's solid for low power battle cruiser environments as it pretty consistently goes over the top of other durdly creature piles, the same way infect is solid. Past that, no.
Mmm, that's disappointing. I have this super cool guild kit Aurelia that would be awesome to put out there. I kind of get the sense that if you want to play angels that G/W is the way to go anyways.
WearingglassesOf the friendly neighborhood varietyRegistered Userregular
What's the closest existing card that has the effect "Deal Some damage to any target. If the target was a creature or Planeswalker, get card(s) when it dies."?
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I mean, I don't think Altar of Dementia actually does anything in your deck. I only see Altar of Dementia in self-mill or as part of an infinite combo. If you find you need more sac outlets, I'd probably go with another creature based one like Bloodflow Connoisseur or Cartel Aristocrat. At least with those you get +1 counters or an indestructible blocker for your sacrificed creature.
I'll say proxies are something I feel overall iffy on personally, and I feel like I'd need a decklist to play in the event someone isn't okay with that. I guess if I could make really good, sharp looking proxies that would help.
I don't hate this as much as some of the replies do, but I would rather just pay for packs directly.
Steam: YOU FACE JARAXXUS| Twitch.tv: CainLoveless
I mean, nothing stops people from paying the gold for the event entry, selecting their 2 packs and then resigning. That still works out to 1k gold per pack which is the same as a standard pack and while you don't have duplicate protection for the rares, you have your choice of packs.
There's also Spawning Pit, though counters/token generation might potentially make opponents nervous. Fanatical Devotion is another white one, and I think (?) you can activate it and just target the creature you're going to sacrifice and the regenerate effect will fizzle, if you just want a no-strings sac outlet.
Spawning pit and devotion are in the deck already I think.
They are indeed.
I've reflected on the proxies and I think I understand what makes me feel off about them. To be clear, I don't think I would ever give a shit about proxies as long as they're clear. Like I just wouldn't care at all if someone had them. Maybe if they printed out absolutely broken shit and played it but then that's more of a concern of them not reading the room and playing something appropriate than a proxy problem.
I think a lot of it is a bit of insecurity and then maybe not knowing what's considered acceptable or reasonable. Is there some point at which enough is enough, like a percentage of deck or a card value amount or something? It also feels like if you proxy some things, is there a point at which you stop? I mean, why proxy steam vents when you can have volcanic island? Does anyone actually care?
I also know this is more up to the individual play groups but as someone who doesn't actually have one but would like to find/make one when it's acceptable to public health, it'd be nice if there were generally accepted best practices.
cEDH tends to be super proxy friendly as a rule but that's also not what you want to play, I imagine. Other groups range from willing, to annoyed, to "only if you own it in another deck", to "no proxies and swap cards between decks", dependent on scene.
Houston players are weird, or at least at that one specific shop they were
Entire decks made with plains and a marker
I had more fun with a proxy tabernacle because I convinced the player running it to let me rip it to pieces when I strip mined it.
I also figured that lands are probably the best/easiest proxy. If someone has beef, I'll just make the backing card a basic or tap land and then, HUZZAH! It's easy and legal no muss no fuss. It's also a weird kind of power level bump. It's not cool or flashy or overly salt generating, but it does just make the deck more consistent and play, optimal? I guess they're not really getting you ahead in the game, they're just ensuring you don't fall behind.
Last, @milski, I realized that Luminous Broodmoth is probably almost as good or maybe even better than Mikaeus? It's cheaper (mana and cash), easier to cast and works on all creatures, and the anthem effect is probably a wash with the flying? Also is this card used in anything competitive or is the price purely for commander? I couldn't find a competitive standard or modern deck that explained why it's sooooo expensive.
Triskelion strong.
but also, well, those two cards are probably going to put you back $57 on their own, and honestly there's just so many cards that go infinite in some way with Mike that it's kind of absurd
Incorrect. Ballista+Mike needs a sac outlet, so it's a 3 card combo.
Ah, I completely forgot that Mike's a +1/+1 lord in addition to the undying. That makes a lot more sense, thanks.
I guess you can still run something like Cinderhaze Wretch to discard everyone's hands, but that's not as fun (at least with instant win combos it's over, while with infinite discards it's just solitaire for half an hour)
kudos to my opponent for making me draw a load of cards off their folio, it really helped me out!
D3 Steam #TeamTangent STO
So now I'm thinking Yeva since flashing everything out seems amusing, or maybe something Simic-y. Tatyova, Rashmi, or Vannifar are kind of on my list. Tatyova seems...expensive since it seems like the "play lots of lands!" strategy is pretty popular, you'd need Azusa, Swordtooth, Oracle of Muldaya, Dryad of the Ilysian Grove, lots of $10+ cards to make her sing. Vannifar seems more like a fair Yisan but you get to play blue. I'm kind of afraid Rashmi will play pretty similar to Kalamax being an instants matter commander in 2/3 colors. I'm rough drafting Yeva and it seems like a lot of people play a lot of elves with her and I have to wonder how good that even is. In a format where everyone is running at least a few board wipes it seems like having a lot of your mana ramp tied up in elves is strictly worse than just ramping out lands.
It's also amusing to me that Great Henge and Growing Rites of Itlimoc already need reprints (despite one of those being currently printed).
do you know what feels really good? Playing GW Kitties and smashing ovens with cats thanks to Feline Sovereign. The catharsis, my god.
Steam: YOU FACE JARAXXUS| Twitch.tv: CainLoveless
Steam: YOU FACE JARAXXUS| Twitch.tv: CainLoveless
“The Adventurer” avatar, City of Brass sleeve and 3500 gems for $15, usually it’s 3400 gems for $20
It's solid for low power battle cruiser environments as it pretty consistently goes over the top of other durdly creature piles, the same way infect is solid. Past that, no.
Phyrexian Vampires and Dragons Discard were solid hits though.
EDIT: Right, Reanimate got effed cause most of the cards didn't go to Arena. Well, is my face red.
Mmm, that's disappointing. I have this super cool guild kit Aurelia that would be awesome to put out there. I kind of get the sense that if you want to play angels that G/W is the way to go anyways.
So went to draft instead, turns out grabbing a bunch of angelic ascension's and falconer adepts and a bunch of bolt hounds and 1 drops is really op
edit: pic, ( 6-1 so far)