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Star Trek: Lower Decks trailer is out. SPOILERS in effect!

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    BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Registered User, Moderator mod
    In a later season I know he snogs Virginia Madsen. His continued ingratitude is astonishing.

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    HevachHevach Registered User regular
    Glyph wrote: »
    Beltran basically had the opposite of Garrett Wang's deal. While B&B clearly hated Wang with a passion and wanted so badly to kill him off, Beltran couldn't get killed off no matter what he did. He asked for more money and they just kept giving him more money.

    On an unrelated note, I'd definitely add Lt. Jr. Grade Picard to my roster. Seems like a reliable guy regardless of Q's misgivings about playing it safe.

    bno0k58veiwl.jpg


    Blueshirt Picard was a model officer, the thing he lacked was any kind of ambition. You definitely want him on your ship because he'll do impeccable work and he's not going anywhere. He might as well be a rack of lab equipment but that's not a bad thing because in like forty years he hasn't shown the slightest interest in an advancement track.

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    DanHibikiDanHibiki Registered User regular
    oh man... I'm Blue Shirt Picard....

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    KupiKupi Registered User regular
    Can I get an explanation for whatever the in-game function of "Harmless Threat Reduction" is? Reducing harmless threats further sounds like... well, admittedly, blue-shirt work.

    My favorite musical instrument is the air-raid siren.
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    HevachHevach Registered User regular
    Hey, he was perfectly content in a job he excelled at until he had another person's brain in his head. I would rather be him than one of those people who rises to a position they can't handle and gets trapped there forever, making themselves and everyone below them miserable.

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    HevachHevach Registered User regular
    edited September 2020
    Kupi wrote: »
    Can I get an explanation for whatever the in-game function of "Harmless Threat Reduction" is? Reducing harmless threats further sounds like... well, admittedly, blue-shirt work.

    Harmless is a debuff on the Intel specialization that reduces the threat (agro) you produce to a chosen target. That duty officer would increase it by an additional 10%, which would put it at 100% for rank III, so you could just unfuckingload everything you have and not worry about that Virisaurus turning around and vaporizing you

    Edit: Virisaurus is a Voth assault unit, basically the T-rex from the old Dino Riders toys that nobody's mom would buy them.

    Hevach on
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    Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    It works a little better if you imagine it written something like "Harmless - Threat Reduction".

    And combining a few threads here: Starfleet probably has a few ships full of people like Blue Shirt Picard, or Fletcher (LD), and commanded by Captains with a file with no Prime Directive violations or other disciplinary issues. Not "was acquitted at the hearing", nothing - because they've never pushed the boundaries or colored outside the lines. Dependable and reliable... as long as the task you have for them doesn't involve taking any significant risk or making a judgment call on something not covered by regulations.

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    HevachHevach Registered User regular
    edited September 2020
    It works a little better if you imagine it written something like "Harmless - Threat Reduction".

    And combining a few threads here: Starfleet probably has a few ships full of people like Blue Shirt Picard, or Fletcher (LD), and commanded by Captains with a file with no Prime Directive violations or other disciplinary issues. Not "was acquitted at the hearing", nothing - because they've never pushed the boundaries or colored outside the lines. Dependable and reliable... as long as the task you have for them doesn't involve taking any significant risk or making a judgment call on something not covered by regulations.

    Hell, this almost describes the Cerritos.

    The captain really WANTS to be a big name captain, but she flails whenever she tries. As long as she's settled into her position as the gopher captain of a workhorse ship she'd be fine.

    Hevach on
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    JacobkoshJacobkosh Gamble a stamp. I can show you how to be a real man!Moderator mod
    Speaking of which, I really liked the latest episode. A couple small moments didn't land for me,
    like the bit with Ransom hitting on the guest star at the end, which seems like once again the show isn't sure if the bridge crew are goofballs or actual bad people,

    but it was a fun and energetic episode where I felt like the A and B plots both got room to breathe and both had interesting stuff going on. The show is on a pretty steady upward course and if this keeps up it might have the most consistently good first season of any Trek ever.

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    Hahnsoo1Hahnsoo1 Make Ready. We Hunt.Registered User regular
    Jacobkosh wrote: »
    Speaking of which, I really liked the latest episode. A couple small moments didn't land for me,
    like the bit with Ransom hitting on the guest star at the end, which seems like once again the show isn't sure if the bridge crew are goofballs or actual bad people,

    but it was a fun and energetic episode where I felt like the A and B plots both got room to breathe and both had interesting stuff going on. The show is on a pretty steady upward course and if this keeps up it might have the most consistently good first season of any Trek ever.
    The Pike callback from TOS and Disco (a vision of the future in that show) made me spit out my drink. It was a hilarious reference drop, especially when it shows up again when they reach "The Farm". Something about T'Ana, the cat doctor, saying "They call it the Farm" also got a giggle out of me, just in the delivery of it.

    8i1dt37buh2m.png
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    Kipling217Kipling217 Registered User regular
    Its becoming clear that Mariner is supposed to be a captain by now, but her issues with being in charge makes her self sabotage. She is like over a decade older then the rest of the ensigns, what with her referencing TNGs Descent which takes place in 2369(but her uniform is the grayshirt version from at least 2373) as happening "last week". Since the show takes place in 2381, she must have stayed an ensign longer then Harry Kim.

    I also like the USS Ceritos, or at least its job. In STO the first ship you get in the TOS expansion is a Pioneer class Utility cruiser. Basically a frigate designed to do mundane shit while the Constitution class ships are doing important stuff. It makes sense that Starfleet would have a fleet of these thing running around doing basic stuff.

    The sky was full of stars, every star an exploding ship. One of ours.
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    GlyphGlyph Registered User regular
    Jacobkosh wrote: »
    Speaking of which, I really liked the latest episode. A couple small moments didn't land for me,
    like the bit with Ransom hitting on the guest star at the end, which seems like once again the show isn't sure if the bridge crew are goofballs or actual bad people,

    Especially given what she implies earlier about how being hit on by him wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.
    9s98del85tdh.jpg
    Though maybe rebuffing Ransom was just Amina's way of keeping him available to Mariner.

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    DonnictonDonnicton Registered User regular
    Hevach wrote: »
    Mulgrew commented on one line ("At one point did he become an individual and not a transporter accident?") that nobody actually knew how to not make sound like shit, but that's the only cast comment I've ever seen.

    Except for the guest star who actually played Tuvix, he's said quite a bit. Phillips was originally going to be Tuvix but they brought in Tim Wright fairly late. Wright couldn't get any solid input from the writers, the directors, and barely any from the rest of the cast. He read the script and was just tossed on the stage in a rubber face to wing it, which he hated. He didn't have anything negative to say, but aside from McNeil helping him with technobabble and a really flowery opinion of Kes that he was always eager to share not much positive either.

    Picardo once gave a non-answer in a magazine regarding the argument between the doctor and Janeway at the end of the episode, calling it "an interesting moment".

    In a surprisingly recent interview with Trekmovie, Wang finally made a statement regarding the Tuvix episode ultimately agreeing that Janeway made the right decision. McNeill seemingly didn't even respond to the question.

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    Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    The obvious Tuvix solution was to get Tuvok back first, wipe his memory of the event to spare him the unending horror, then split Neelix into good Neelix and bad Neelix and space both of them.

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    HevachHevach Registered User regular
    See, the problem there is, Neelix's good and evil sides are indistinguishable, because annoying isn't evil and his only other flaw is insisting he's "something of an expert" on any field that comes up when he doesn't actually know fuck all.

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    MancingtomMancingtom Registered User regular
    Well, he's also super possessive of Kes, so his evil side would The Patriarchy.

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    BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Registered User, Moderator mod
    The Kazon just marooned the whole crew on a primitive planet and Neelix is like right Delta squad follow me and seriously? I know he's got 'local knowledge' but come on putting him in command of anything bigger than a frying pan is insane. I would make Spot acting captain before this tool.

    Ugh. He just sucks so bad. I will take a thousand Wesleys over Neelix.

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    HevachHevach Registered User regular
    Bogart wrote: »
    The Kazon just marooned the whole crew on a primitive planet and Neelix is like right Delta squad follow me and seriously? I know he's got 'local knowledge' but come on putting him in command of anything bigger than a frying pan is insane. I would make Spot acting captain before this tool.

    Ugh. He just sucks so bad. I will take a thousand Wesleys over Neelix.

    "I'm something of an expert in survival," and weren't all the deaths from that in HIS squad?

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    BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Registered User, Moderator mod
    Hevach wrote: »
    Bogart wrote: »
    The Kazon just marooned the whole crew on a primitive planet and Neelix is like right Delta squad follow me and seriously? I know he's got 'local knowledge' but come on putting him in command of anything bigger than a frying pan is insane. I would make Spot acting captain before this tool.

    Ugh. He just sucks so bad. I will take a thousand Wesleys over Neelix.

    "I'm something of an expert in survival," and weren't all the deaths from that in HIS squad?

    It's strange how everyone kinda treats him like an enthusiastic but obviously idiot child and then still gives him responsibilities and important tasks.

    Hahaha oh Neelix you say you want to target the photon torpedoes because you're so lovably curious, OK then oh whoops you exploded a planet of puppies never mind.

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    AuralynxAuralynx Darkness is a perspective Watching the ego workRegistered User regular
    Bogart wrote: »
    Hevach wrote: »
    Bogart wrote: »
    The Kazon just marooned the whole crew on a primitive planet and Neelix is like right Delta squad follow me and seriously? I know he's got 'local knowledge' but come on putting him in command of anything bigger than a frying pan is insane. I would make Spot acting captain before this tool.

    Ugh. He just sucks so bad. I will take a thousand Wesleys over Neelix.

    "I'm something of an expert in survival," and weren't all the deaths from that in HIS squad?

    It's strange how everyone kinda treats him like an enthusiastic but obviously idiot child and then still gives him responsibilities and important tasks.

    Hahaha oh Neelix you say you want to target the photon torpedoes because you're so lovably curious, OK then oh whoops you exploded a planet of puppies never mind.

    I mean, if Voyager has a signature move it's tonal whiplash. Neelix is the early embodiment of it for sure.

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    CoinageCoinage Heaviside LayerRegistered User regular
    edited September 2020
    The guys who got ganked by the monster were so unlucky, they only had to make it through a few more episodes before the injuries pretty much stopped being fatal.

    Coinage on
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    Space PickleSpace Pickle Registered User regular
    I don't have TV or the CBS streaming service, so I won't be watching Lower Decks.

    However I just saw a clip where a guy got into a fight with a giant combadge.

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    RichyRichy Registered User regular
    edited September 2020
    Hevach wrote: »
    Bogart wrote: »
    The Kazon just marooned the whole crew on a primitive planet and Neelix is like right Delta squad follow me and seriously? I know he's got 'local knowledge' but come on putting him in command of anything bigger than a frying pan is insane. I would make Spot acting captain before this tool.

    Ugh. He just sucks so bad. I will take a thousand Wesleys over Neelix.

    "I'm something of an expert in survival," and weren't all the deaths from that in HIS squad?

    My favourite bit is when he picks up a bone to explain to an ensign that in a survival situation you need to gather everything that can potentially help. Then he throws the bone back on the ground so the ensign has to pick it up again. And he gets killed by a wild beast that was lurking just a few meters away while picking it up again.

    The only way it could have been more perfect is if Neelix looked on calmly from nearby and said "Thoughts and prayers for that ensign. Thoughts and prayers."

    Richy on
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    DanHibikiDanHibiki Registered User regular
    edited September 2020
    Richy wrote: »
    Hevach wrote: »
    Bogart wrote: »
    The Kazon just marooned the whole crew on a primitive planet and Neelix is like right Delta squad follow me and seriously? I know he's got 'local knowledge' but come on putting him in command of anything bigger than a frying pan is insane. I would make Spot acting captain before this tool.

    Ugh. He just sucks so bad. I will take a thousand Wesleys over Neelix.

    "I'm something of an expert in survival," and weren't all the deaths from that in HIS squad?

    My favourite bit is when he picks up a bone to explain to an ensign that in a survival situation you need to gather everything that can potentially help. Then he throws the bone back on the ground so the ensign has to pick it up again. And he gets killed by a wild beast that was lurking just a few meters away while picking it up again.

    The only way it could have been more perfect is if Neelix looked on calmly from nearby and said "Thoughts and prayers for that ensign. Thoughts and prayers."

    "What horror, the monster finished eating ensign
    Ricky.... Ensign Bobby, go pick up Ricky's bones. "

    DanHibiki on
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    AiouaAioua Ora Occidens Ora OptimaRegistered User regular
    I'm the weirdo who likes Neelix (well, minus his fucked up relationship with Kes... but this is Voyager so I can just pretend that those episodes are part of a different timeline or some shit)

    life's a game that you're bound to lose / like using a hammer to pound in screws
    fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
    that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
    bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
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    HevachHevach Registered User regular
    I don't have TV or the CBS streaming service, so I won't be watching Lower Decks.

    However I just saw a clip where a guy got into a fight with a giant combadge.

    The guy was Rutherford, and the badge was Badgey, a holodeck program he created to help locate and execute training scenarios instead of memorizing the horrifically useless naming scheme Starfleet uses for holodeck programs, where Riker217 is a combat training scenario against the Sona and Riker271 is the lady in the red dress.
    They were fighting because the holodeck did its usual thing and Badgey turned evil.

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    Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    Richy wrote: »
    Hevach wrote: »
    Bogart wrote: »
    The Kazon just marooned the whole crew on a primitive planet and Neelix is like right Delta squad follow me and seriously? I know he's got 'local knowledge' but come on putting him in command of anything bigger than a frying pan is insane. I would make Spot acting captain before this tool.

    Ugh. He just sucks so bad. I will take a thousand Wesleys over Neelix.

    "I'm something of an expert in survival," and weren't all the deaths from that in HIS squad?

    My favourite bit is when he picks up a bone to explain to an ensign that in a survival situation you need to gather everything that can potentially help. Then he throws the bone back on the ground so the ensign has to pick it up again. And he gets killed by a wild beast that was lurking just a few meters away while picking it up again.

    The only way it could have been more perfect is if Neelix looked on calmly from nearby and said "Thoughts and prayers for that ensign. Thoughts and prayers."

    Neelix was probably the worst character on Voyager. I hate Tom Paris but he's of a particular Zack Morris-type that was endemic to that era. Chakotay was an empty shell and a racist caricature, but was so much of a non-entity that he may as well have not been a character at all. Harry Kim was fucked over repeatedly but, again, it's hard to be the worst character when you're not really a character at all.

    But Neelix was just a brand-new type of incompetence who was repeatedly given enough responsibility to get multiple people killed and everyone's response was to go, "Oh, Neelix! You cut-up you!" It made everyone else, especially Janeway, look even more incompetent by reflection. And the character himself was incredibly grating and not at all endearing, which made you wonder how he ever sweet-talked his way into anything in the first place.

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    DanHibikiDanHibiki Registered User regular
    Chakotay's only defining feature is his massive hard on for Anthropology. The guy will die and take everyone with him if it made an ancient and untouched tribe of space primitives happy. He's basically Betty White from that Community episode.

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    Edith_Bagot-DixEdith_Bagot-Dix Registered User regular
    Hevach wrote: »
    I don't have TV or the CBS streaming service, so I won't be watching Lower Decks.

    However I just saw a clip where a guy got into a fight with a giant combadge.

    The guy was Rutherford, and the badge was Badgey, a holodeck program he created to help locate and execute training scenarios instead of memorizing the horrifically useless naming scheme Starfleet uses for holodeck programs, where Riker217 is a combat training scenario against the Sona and Riker271 is the lady in the red dress.
    They were fighting because the holodeck did its usual thing and Badgey turned evil.

    Maybe Riker was just incredibly lazy and all his programs are like Andorian Love Sled Copy Copy Copy Copy (003).hdk



    Also on Steam and PSN: twobadcats
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    CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    Richy wrote: »
    Hevach wrote: »
    Bogart wrote: »
    The Kazon just marooned the whole crew on a primitive planet and Neelix is like right Delta squad follow me and seriously? I know he's got 'local knowledge' but come on putting him in command of anything bigger than a frying pan is insane. I would make Spot acting captain before this tool.

    Ugh. He just sucks so bad. I will take a thousand Wesleys over Neelix.

    "I'm something of an expert in survival," and weren't all the deaths from that in HIS squad?

    My favourite bit is when he picks up a bone to explain to an ensign that in a survival situation you need to gather everything that can potentially help. Then he throws the bone back on the ground so the ensign has to pick it up again. And he gets killed by a wild beast that was lurking just a few meters away while picking it up again.

    The only way it could have been more perfect is if Neelix looked on calmly from nearby and said "Thoughts and prayers for that ensign. Thoughts and prayers."

    This is my favorite Neelix bit, too! The throwing the bone away so the Ensign would have to pick it up again (moments before the monster devours the Ensign) is the best/worst Neelix moment.

    "If you divide the whole world into just enemies and friends, you'll end up destroying everything" --Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind
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    Dark_SideDark_Side Registered User regular
    edited September 2020
    I hate Tom Paris but he's of a particular Zack Morris-type that was endemic to that era.

    Oh god it makes so much sense!
    which made you wonder how he ever sweet-talked his way into anything in the first place.

    4 years ago I would have agreed, there's no way that would ever happen in real life. But after Donald Trump's reign of idiocy, Neelix's continued hi jinx seem entirely plausible.

    Dark_Side on
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    WinkyWinky rRegistered User regular
    Super loved the most recent Lower Decks
    Loved the farm fakeout and further explanation of Mariner's whole deal

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    NightslyrNightslyr Registered User regular
    Neelix isn't just utterly incompetent, he's also abusive to Kes the first couple of seasons which makes it even more baffling that he'd be allowed to stay on the ship.

    I feel bad for Ethan Phillips because he's a quality actor, and he did the best he could with the material given, but, man, the writing for him was atrocious. Neelix doesn't become bearable until somewhere around season 6, where he's featured much less, is written less annoyingly, and actually has a few small triumphs.

    That said, I kinda wish he was killed off during/after Scorpion with Kes remaining instead. I feel like the lack of Kes/Seven interactions is criminal.

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    GlyphGlyph Registered User regular
    Winky wrote: »
    Super loved the most recent Lower Decks
    Loved the farm fakeout and further explanation of Mariner's whole deal

    That's something I think a lot of people seem to misunderstand about Mariner's character (or at least the writers' intentions for her).
    She isn't "the best officer in all of Starfleet" or a "Mary Sue," she's more like a flagship-caliber officer who for whatever reason chose to be a big fish in a small pond. She and Ransom both seem overqualified for their stations but for whatever reason are still stuck on a baseline vessel like the Doritos. That said, she still needs to be knocked down a peg by someone other than herself because not being able to get over yourself isn't particularly endearing, nor does it make for the most compelling character arc.

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    MancingtomMancingtom Registered User regular
    Glyph wrote: »
    Winky wrote: »
    Super loved the most recent Lower Decks
    Loved the farm fakeout and further explanation of Mariner's whole deal

    That's something I think a lot of people seem to misunderstand about Mariner's character (or at least the writers' intentions for her).
    She isn't "the best officer in all of Starfleet" or a "Mary Sue," she's more like a flagship-caliber officer who for whatever reason chose to be a big fish in a small pond. She and Ransom both seem overqualified for their stations but for whatever reason are still stuck on a baseline vessel like the Doritos. That said, she still needs to be knocked down a peg by someone other than herself because not being able to get over yourself isn't particularly endearing, nor does it make for the most compelling character arc.

    That was the one thing about the episode I didn't like.
    I wish Mariner really had choked out of nervousness. It might've shocked her into some real growth. Instead, the episode in another moment of Mariner being explicitly better than everyone around her.

    Tendi and Rutherford are much more tolerable examples of skill. They're both really good at their jobs and not afraid to show it, but they don't assume it makes them better than everyone else the way Mariner does. Arrogance is a perfectly fine flaw—but only when it's properly called out in the story.

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    Gnome-InterruptusGnome-Interruptus Registered User regular
    edited September 2020
    Me and the girlfriend absolutely loved “The Dog”.

    I was worried it was going to just be a throwaway bit in the into, but it stuck around all episode

    Also, the writers need to bring back ironic sarcastic Live Long and Prosper

    Gnome-Interruptus on
    steam_sig.png
    MWO: Adamski
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    MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    Hevach wrote: »
    I don't have TV or the CBS streaming service, so I won't be watching Lower Decks.

    However I just saw a clip where a guy got into a fight with a giant combadge.

    The guy was Rutherford, and the badge was Badgey, a holodeck program he created to help locate and execute training scenarios instead of memorizing the horrifically useless naming scheme Starfleet uses for holodeck programs, where Riker217 is a combat training scenario against the Sona and Riker271 is the lady in the red dress.
    They were fighting because the holodeck did its usual thing and Badgey turned evil.

    Also...
    The safety protocols disengaged.

    It seems incomprehensible to me that given how often it happens (feels like at least half of all episodes the holodeck makes an appearance, it's a safety protocol override episode), that safety protocols are hardwired in, and if you want to engage in reckless activity, that's what shore leave is for.

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    Kipling217Kipling217 Registered User regular
    Nightslyr wrote: »
    Neelix isn't just utterly incompetent, he's also abusive to Kes the first couple of seasons which makes it even more baffling that he'd be allowed to stay on the ship.

    I feel bad for Ethan Phillips because he's a quality actor, and he did the best he could with the material given, but, man, the writing for him was atrocious. Neelix doesn't become bearable until somewhere around season 6, where he's featured much less, is written less annoyingly, and actually has a few small triumphs.

    That said, I kinda wish he was killed off during/after Scorpion with Kes remaining instead. I feel like the lack of Kes/Seven interactions is criminal.

    Nelix could have been so much better if they had actually planed out his backstory and made him a smidge more consistent. Like his relationship with Kes, instead of Boyfriend, they could have mad him her surrogate dad, dedicated to teaching the naive newcomer how to survive outside of her home. Way less creepy.

    Made him a better hustler, setting up the Kazon has having so little knowledge of tech that they couldn't create water in a oxygen atmosphere(the two water barrels he sells them in the first episode). Him being a guy that hustle Kazon by being the only one that can fix their ships kind of deal. Always salvaging things for sale, jury rigging engineering like Scotty. Driving B'lanna crazy by fixing things with spare parts left over. Not the Cook. On a ship with replicators, a cook is about as useful as a chocolate teapot.

    They could have highlighted his backstory and that of his people. The Talaxians being warlike dicks that declared war on a neighboring species, only for the neighboring species to win the war. Have Nelix be an anti-war activist/draft doger that opposed the war, only for the neighboring species to nuke his home. Making the Talaxian more 3d and giving Nelix a reason to be a loner.

    (Instead of the unstated reason that no other Talaxian could stand him and the only woman that would want him was a 5 year old raised in Occampan/Amish Planet).

    Ethan Phillips would have sold it too.

    The sky was full of stars, every star an exploding ship. One of ours.
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    Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    He would have. Of all the Voyager actors who reprised their roles for STO, I was the most impressed by his performance (even though the character was lame). Ryan too, of course. Russ, O'Neill and Wang were decent. Picardo was the surprising disappointment; he seemed to be almost literally phoning it in at times. Maybe they didn't give him much to work with.

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    Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    Kipling217 wrote: »
    Driving B'lanna crazy by fixing things with spare parts left over.

    This could've been a great running gag for the series, with Neelix proactively kludging repairs and B'lanna increasingly maddened by the fact that he does the repairs on his own but she can't figure out how the fuck he manages to keep a power coupling running with two bent screwdrivers and a bowl of stew. Janeway is walking through the halls talking with Paris or something, an explosion of sparks comes down another hallway, and the the two peek around the corner to see B'lanna kicking a maintenance panel while holding a bent, scorched skewer and yelling "HOW?!"

This discussion has been closed.