Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if Labor had not first existed. Labor is superior to capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. - Lincoln
0
Options
Dr_KeenbeanDumb as a buttPlanet Express ShipRegistered Userregular
edited September 2022
I don't recognize any of the top row. OG Space Police gets me right in the feels. I just built one of my old sets with my kid the other day. It's sitting on our dining room table right now.
Where the Futuron at tho. OG Blacktron I can see the omission as it might be boring - just black with yellow accents and transparent red. The 70s-80s space theme should have solid-colored astronauts.
Librarian's ghostLibrarian, Ghostbuster, and TimSporkRegistered Userregular
I can't help but feel some of the special rule combinations for Votann are only super OP because they are also designed with some stuff in 10th edition in mind where the combos won't be as crazy powerful. Like GW went, okay this is broken now, but it'll only be broken for a little while until 10th.
Do the Leagues use chainswords? I can't imagine them not using them (I mean, this is 40k afterall), but if you're giving the Transparent Orange Chainsaw colors to a faction that doesn't actually use chainswords...
It just doesn't seem right.
0
Options
Librarian's ghostLibrarian, Ghostbuster, and TimSporkRegistered Userregular
Do the Leagues use chainswords? I can't imagine them not using them (I mean, this is 40k afterall), but if you're giving the Transparent Orange Chainsaw colors to a faction that doesn't actually use chainswords...
It just doesn't seem right.
They got like lightsaber plasma axes and swords though.
I can't help but feel some of the special rule combinations for Votann are only super OP because they are also designed with some stuff in 10th edition in mind where the combos won't be as crazy powerful. Like GW went, okay this is broken now, but it'll only be broken for a little while until 10th.
That is a big question.
Because this is not the first time this edition GW has dropped a broken codex with broken rules that just breaks the meta. Ad Mech, Drukhari, Tyranids, Harliquins and Tau had broken internal and external balance that skewed the meta so badly it took some emergency band aids.
Also the other rumor is 10th is going to be similar to 8th. A restructure of the entire system with a possible index period.
+1
Options
Mr_Rose83 Blue Ridge Protects the HolyRegistered Userregular
This was probably meant as a joke/demeaning, but a bunch of the schemes look really cool
This image here is doing more to sell me on a LoV army than all the hype/preview stuff to date. Why is GW’s default scheme so boring?
If I hadn't already decided on the orange official color scheme for Votann, I'd seriously consider the Ice Planet, but that is a lot of white to paint.
I can't help but feel some of the special rule combinations for Votann are only super OP because they are also designed with some stuff in 10th edition in mind where the combos won't be as crazy powerful. Like GW went, okay this is broken now, but it'll only be broken for a little while until 10th.
That is a big question.
Because this is not the first time this edition GW has dropped a broken codex with broken rules that just breaks the meta. Ad Mech, Drukhari, Tyranids, Harliquins and Tau had broken internal and external balance that skewed the meta so badly it took some emergency band aids.
Also the other rumor is 10th is going to be similar to 8th. A restructure of the entire system with a possible index period.
I’m a little ambivalent on the idea of a 10th edition reset. I think I’d like a restructuring to the game that allows for more interaction from the defending player (like Reactions) and less overall stratagems and stacking buffs. Additionally, I wish some units like Space Marine infantry were just a bit tougher without resorting to special rules like AoC or -1 damage, etc. I feel like a lot of the base statistics on data sheets just aren’t as impactful as they should be. On the other hand, both 8th & 9th have shown that there can be a healthy meta with good build variety when the existing rules are carefully cultivated. Also, I’m still smarting over the timing of 8th Edition’s Space Marine 2 codex and 9th Edition’s arrival, and I don’t wish that on any Votann or Guard player.
We’ll see what comes in (likely) less than a year though, and meanwhile Kill Team is amazing and getting better with each release.
飛べねぇ豚はただの豚だ。
+2
Options
Mr_Rose83 Blue Ridge Protects the HolyRegistered Userregular
This was probably meant as a joke/demeaning, but a bunch of the schemes look really cool
This image here is doing more to sell me on a LoV army than all the hype/preview stuff to date. Why is GW’s default scheme so boring?
If I hadn't already decided on the orange official color scheme for Votann, I'd seriously consider the Ice Planet, but that is a lot of white to paint.
Looks like it’s actually mostly Ulthuan Grey to me. There’s white in it for sure but on things like shoulder pads.
I can't help but feel some of the special rule combinations for Votann are only super OP because they are also designed with some stuff in 10th edition in mind where the combos won't be as crazy powerful. Like GW went, okay this is broken now, but it'll only be broken for a little while until 10th.
I feel party they make the new codex Op to drive sales. Fomo and trend chasing as well
0
Options
Lord_AsmodeusgoeticSobriquet:Here is your magical cryptic riddle-tumour: I AM A TIME MACHINERegistered Userregular
edited September 2022
For people who plan on picking up the Votann I wonder who's planning on going with a custom faction or one of the official ones.
For my own part I'm trying to decide if I should go with a deeper violet purple as my main color, or something closer to a tyrian purple
Lord_Asmodeus on
Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if Labor had not first existed. Labor is superior to capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. - Lincoln
0
Options
Librarian's ghostLibrarian, Ghostbuster, and TimSporkRegistered Userregular
edited September 2022
In non Votann news, I just saw that Ad Mech flyer/Ornitopter thing and I want one just to have it be landed on a table as terrain because it looks cool.
In non Votann news, I just saw that Ad Mech flyer/Ornitopter thing and I want one just to have it be landed on a table as terrain because it looks cool.
I finally got Electro priests for the house army {the Custodes and AD Mech are house armies} So we just need the robots. We had agreed to do Ryza as our scheme and build it as a 1000+ army so I don't know about the flyer
The following people are amazing and I love them: Wildcat, Timspork, Kias, Denada, susan, Sharp101, [GHSC]Ryctor, Matev, Matrias, ItBurns, Slapnuts, Dayspring, see317, and the unknown poster that sent me a box of Death Company! If you get them as Santees you should buy them amazing things!
I can't help but feel some of the special rule combinations for Votann are only super OP because they are also designed with some stuff in 10th edition in mind where the combos won't be as crazy powerful. Like GW went, okay this is broken now, but it'll only be broken for a little while until 10th.
I feel party they make the new codex Op to drive sales. Fomo and trend chasing as well
I’m cynical enough to also have that thought, but I think anyone smart enough to implement this strategy would also be smart enough to realize that it would ultimately decrease sales as people lose faith in the competitive scene.
Do the Leagues use chainswords? I can't imagine them not using them (I mean, this is 40k afterall), but if you're giving the Transparent Orange Chainsaw colors to a faction that doesn't actually use chainswords...
It just doesn't seem right.
They got like lightsaber plasma axes and swords though.
Are they actual lightsabers? Because the FF tabletop game actually had rules for a plasma sword and it was hilariously awful. It'd rip your face off for sure, but it was also a hot mess of downsides and the description was great. Basically it was a plasma generator thingie with a hose to the hilt. You turn it on and there's a massive wooshing noise as plasma shoots out and is contained by some magnetic fields. So you're character is then holding this super noisy, Unwieldy, plasma spewing monstrosity. You couldn't parry with it (or if you could it was a huge penalty because there was no physical blade), any fumbles were going to end in tears, and I'm not sure but I think there was also the risk of the power pack exploding if something bad happened. It was, of course, super rare and very expensive. An absolutely perfect 40k take on the lightsaber.
Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
0
Options
Librarian's ghostLibrarian, Ghostbuster, and TimSporkRegistered Userregular
Do the Leagues use chainswords? I can't imagine them not using them (I mean, this is 40k afterall), but if you're giving the Transparent Orange Chainsaw colors to a faction that doesn't actually use chainswords...
It just doesn't seem right.
They got like lightsaber plasma axes and swords though.
Are they actual lightsabers? Because the FF tabletop game actually had rules for a plasma sword and it was hilariously awful. It'd rip your face off for sure, but it was also a hot mess of downsides and the description was great. Basically it was a plasma generator thingie with a hose to the hilt. You turn it on and there's a massive wooshing noise as plasma shoots out and is contained by some magnetic fields. So you're character is then holding this super noisy, Unwieldy, plasma spewing monstrosity. You couldn't parry with it (or if you could it was a huge penalty because there was no physical blade), any fumbles were going to end in tears, and I'm not sure but I think there was also the risk of the power pack exploding if something bad happened. It was, of course, super rare and very expensive. An absolutely perfect 40k take on the lightsaber.
There is that one Beserker with the mole launcher who has their big axe being carried by the Ironkin and it is "off" and the whole blade section is gone, so it definitely seems like they have extendo plasma/light blades.
Maybe free rules for ruinstorm daemons and cults/milita and legacy mechanicum this week?
Heresy roadmap had those for August and September I think and we got none of them yet. Plus warcom weekly preview announced free rules for this week
0
Options
Lord_AsmodeusgoeticSobriquet:Here is your magical cryptic riddle-tumour: I AM A TIME MACHINERegistered Userregular
I'm thinking I might do with a darker purple base, probably shyish purple, then have a brighter more vibrant blue as the secondary color like probably Kantor blue (though I am considering a cyan or maybe go the other way and do a rose) alternatively tyrian purple and black would look good as well
Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if Labor had not first existed. Labor is superior to capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. - Lincoln
I can't help but feel some of the special rule combinations for Votann are only super OP because they are also designed with some stuff in 10th edition in mind where the combos won't be as crazy powerful. Like GW went, okay this is broken now, but it'll only be broken for a little while until 10th.
I feel party they make the new codex Op to drive sales. Fomo and trend chasing as well
I’m cynical enough to also have that thought, but I think anyone smart enough to implement this strategy would also be smart enough to realize that it would ultimately decrease sales as people lose faith in the competitive scene.
On the other hand the current players in the competitive scene have already bought their models, so overtuned new hotness gets them to switch and build a new army for that edge until enough dataslates drop.
I can't help but feel some of the special rule combinations for Votann are only super OP because they are also designed with some stuff in 10th edition in mind where the combos won't be as crazy powerful. Like GW went, okay this is broken now, but it'll only be broken for a little while until 10th.
I feel party they make the new codex Op to drive sales. Fomo and trend chasing as well
I’m cynical enough to also have that thought, but I think anyone smart enough to implement this strategy would also be smart enough to realize that it would ultimately decrease sales as people lose faith in the competitive scene.
On the other hand the current players in the competitive scene have already bought their models, so overtuned new hotness gets them to switch and build a new army for that edge until enough dataslates drop.
Oh, certainly that happens but, 1) GW doesn’t make its money off of what tournament players do, they make it off of massive amounts of casual players who, 2) don’t play tournaments but are still affected by the tournament scene. As casual players feel disaffected by tournament results they lose interest and sales go down. Goonhammer wrote about this a bit ago, and if we can view Valrak as a stand-in for the average causal player it mirrors his views on 40K as a whole.
Of course I could be way off on my assessment: I’m not a Warhammer doctor or anything.
Just read through the goonhammer article on the Votann maths. Welp. A 100% chance to inflict 8 points of damage (and 75% chance to do 12 points) regardless of the target's toughness and invulnerable save. Also it's splash damage that spills over to other models in a unit.
0
Options
PiptheFairFrequently not in boats.Registered Userregular
Just read through the goonhammer article on the Votann maths. Welp. A 100% chance to inflict 8 points of damage (and 75% chance to do 12 points) regardless of the target's toughness and invulnerable save. Also it's splash damage that spills over to other models in a unit.
oh yeah, votann are gonna be at 70% winrate out the gate, it's pretty obvious they were way too heavily pushed
+5
Options
MonwynApathy's a tragedy, and boredom is a crime.A little bit of everything, all of the time.Registered Userregular
Hilariously a couple of armies and builds that are currently out of favor probably get stronger. Non-mech Guard and horde Orks and Nids can field units big enough to absorb the hits and mostly not care, and everyone else is going to be losing to Votann in R1 so the poor matchups against the rest of the field are less consequential.
Knights should probably just not bother playing though.
Just read through the goonhammer article on the Votann maths. Welp. A 100% chance to inflict 8 points of damage (and 75% chance to do 12 points) regardless of the target's toughness and invulnerable save. Also it's splash damage that spills over to other models in a unit.
oh yeah, votann are gonna be at 70% winrate out the gate, it's pretty obvious they were way too heavily pushed
They've already apparently been pre-emptively banned in Germany's competitive scene, it's entirely possible that other countries follow suit.
+3
Options
PiptheFairFrequently not in boats.Registered Userregular
Just read through the goonhammer article on the Votann maths. Welp. A 100% chance to inflict 8 points of damage (and 75% chance to do 12 points) regardless of the target's toughness and invulnerable save. Also it's splash damage that spills over to other models in a unit.
oh yeah, votann are gonna be at 70% winrate out the gate, it's pretty obvious they were way too heavily pushed
They've already apparently been pre-emptively banned in Germany's competitive scene, it's entirely possible that other countries follow suit.
that is wild, and also a pretty terrible look for GW
I really want to give things the benefit of the doubt but it seems tribally easy to put judgement tokens on things and a weapon doing so many mortal wounds in a 4+ to hit just isn’t what I’d call a feel good moment, especially if you’re playing with friends.
My mate loves dwarfs and I’m not going to….begrudge him getting an army but I’m not a fan of this combination of mechanics.
The admech strat got a nerf which did a similar thing.
I can't help but feel some of the special rule combinations for Votann are only super OP because they are also designed with some stuff in 10th edition in mind where the combos won't be as crazy powerful. Like GW went, okay this is broken now, but it'll only be broken for a little while until 10th.
I feel party they make the new codex Op to drive sales. Fomo and trend chasing as well
I’m cynical enough to also have that thought, but I think anyone smart enough to implement this strategy would also be smart enough to realize that it would ultimately decrease sales as people lose faith in the competitive scene.
On the other hand the current players in the competitive scene have already bought their models, so overtuned new hotness gets them to switch and build a new army for that edge until enough dataslates drop.
Oh, certainly that happens but, 1) GW doesn’t make its money off of what tournament players do, they make it off of massive amounts of casual players who, 2) don’t play tournaments but are still affected by the tournament scene. As casual players feel disaffected by tournament results they lose interest and sales go down. Goonhammer wrote about this a bit ago, and if we can view Valrak as a stand-in for the average causal player it mirrors his views on 40K as a whole.
Of course I could be way off on my assessment: I’m not a Warhammer doctor or anything.
A casual player doesn't know tournament results. But they definitely know when in a casual game they bring the guys they think have sick models and their opponent brings the currently broken guys and it's Not Fun.
Just read through the goonhammer article on the Votann maths. Welp. A 100% chance to inflict 8 points of damage (and 75% chance to do 12 points) regardless of the target's toughness and invulnerable save. Also it's splash damage that spills over to other models in a unit.
oh yeah, votann are gonna be at 70% winrate out the gate, it's pretty obvious they were way too heavily pushed
They've already apparently been pre-emptively banned in Germany's competitive scene, it's entirely possible that other countries follow suit.
that is wild, and also a pretty terrible look for GW
Eh, they fucked up balance egregiously with a new codex plenty of time in recent memory, they put out errata and changes to adjust the balance pretty quickly these days though.
I struggle to understand how some of these things get printed when obviously ridiculous upon first reading, let alone the playtesting they swear they're doing now, but they're a lot more responsive to correcting their mistakes in the last few years.
A casual player doesn't know tournament results. But they definitely know when in a casual game they bring the guys they think have sick models and their opponent brings the currently broken guys and it's Not Fun.
Probably splitting hairs at this point, but I’d argue that casual players do know what is or isn’t strong at the tournament level because that information trickles down throughout all the shared hobby spaces. Like, if you define casual as the guys who have no contact whatsoever outside of their similarly isolated friend-group, then yeah maybe they don’t know anything about the current meta. But in every local hobby shop and Warhammer store I’ve been in people talk, often endlessly, about the meta. They may not be right, or able to point out exactly why a army/unit is good, they will often conflate or extrapolate info incorrectly, and too often (in my experience) they’ll fail to understand why their own local meta is different to the tournament scene, but someone in the scene follows it just enough to at least know win rates, and almost everyone feels affected by them.
I don’t remember the exact article from goonhammer that talked about this, it might have been from one of their meta round ups? It certainly rang true to my experience.
飛べねぇ豚はただの豚だ。
+2
Options
AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
Just read through the goonhammer article on the Votann maths. Welp. A 100% chance to inflict 8 points of damage (and 75% chance to do 12 points) regardless of the target's toughness and invulnerable save. Also it's splash damage that spills over to other models in a unit.
oh yeah, votann are gonna be at 70% winrate out the gate, it's pretty obvious they were way too heavily pushed
They've already apparently been pre-emptively banned in Germany's competitive scene, it's entirely possible that other countries follow suit.
It makes sense. The book is 100% utterly fucked. I wouldn't play that army whatsoever, but thankfully as it's new nobody will have much of it up and ready to go so there will hopefully be time for a nerf.
But it's easily a meta defining and gatekeeper army, again.
40k is just a disaster in terms of game design and balancing. They can't keep lurching from broken book to broken book like this.
A casual player doesn't know tournament results. But they definitely know when in a casual game they bring the guys they think have sick models and their opponent brings the currently broken guys and it's Not Fun.
Probably splitting hairs at this point, but I’d argue that casual players do know what is or isn’t strong at the tournament level because that information trickles down throughout all the shared hobby spaces. Like, if you define casual as the guys who have no contact whatsoever outside of their similarly isolated friend-group, then yeah maybe they don’t know anything about the current meta. But in every local hobby shop and Warhammer store I’ve been in people talk, often endlessly, about the meta. They may not be right, or able to point out exactly why a army/unit is good, they will often conflate or extrapolate info incorrectly, and too often (in my experience) they’ll fail to understand why their own local meta is different to the tournament scene, but someone in the scene follows it just enough to at least know win rates, and almost everyone feels affected by them.
I don’t remember the exact article from goonhammer that talked about this, it might have been from one of their meta round ups? It certainly rang true to my experience.
I belong to a gaming club and yea I agree everyone will know what's strong, but I can name like two big tournaments, I don't know which ones went down this past weekend or the last and I certainly don't know who won them.
Honestly I feel like this gives too much credit to the tournament scene for identifying what's too strong. Let's be honest, most of the time everyone knows exactly what's way too good the moment they read the new rules for an army. The guys winning events will brainstorm and refine the army lists to the most broken possible, sure, but for the purpose of "and then my army with an old codex got wrecked" no one needs to be keeping their finger on the pulse of the North American meta or whatever.
So IMO you're just getting the cause and effect confused, it's not that tournament results reveal broken bullshit and that trickles down to the casual environment but that broken rules exist and (because winning games is popular!) are adopted en masse casually and honed to the cutting edge by the guys looking to win events and (IMO especially) the guys looking to fill content hours on Youtube talking about this stuff.
+1
Options
AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
The thing is, this is a brainless, easy to play and very efficient gatekeeper army. They won't just be terrors of the competitive scene, they are utterly busted and not fun to play for casual players as well.
It's like Dergins in Age of Sigmar in many ways. They were difficult to deal with and your meta/list had to consider them when you were building a competitive list, because they were always going to turn up. The thing was, competitive players could adjust in that game and they could be beaten (they definitely did not get to the 70%+ win rates of 40k). Where Dergins were the biggest problem though was casual play, because they could easily spank any casual player list off the board just because of what they were.
LoV are both. They're a dreadful gatekeeper army that will be absolutely zero fun to play, I mean I don't even know what GSC would do about this shit, but they're also going to be heinously and utterly broken at the competitive level as well. It's entirely possible to shit on every form of play and need to be dealt with, even when the tournament and competitive scenes might adjust. It's possible very efficient hordes of bodies armies might be able to stand up to LoV. *Might*.
Posts
It had really good cinematics too
Where the Futuron at tho. OG Blacktron I can see the omission as it might be boring - just black with yellow accents and transparent red. The 70s-80s space theme should have solid-colored astronauts.
It's all rad as hell either way.
3DS: 1650-8480-6786
Switch: SW-0653-8208-4705
Do the Leagues use chainswords? I can't imagine them not using them (I mean, this is 40k afterall), but if you're giving the Transparent Orange Chainsaw colors to a faction that doesn't actually use chainswords...
It just doesn't seem right.
They got like lightsaber plasma axes and swords though.
That is a big question.
Because this is not the first time this edition GW has dropped a broken codex with broken rules that just breaks the meta. Ad Mech, Drukhari, Tyranids, Harliquins and Tau had broken internal and external balance that skewed the meta so badly it took some emergency band aids.
Also the other rumor is 10th is going to be similar to 8th. A restructure of the entire system with a possible index period.
Nintendo Network ID: AzraelRose
DropBox invite link - get 500MB extra free.
If I have the energi I will try to 3d model a Fotress substitute that looks like a Squat Colossus, but so it fits in with the other Votann.
Well, right after I paint my Indomitus box anyway.
.
Island. Being on fire.
If I hadn't already decided on the orange official color scheme for Votann, I'd seriously consider the Ice Planet, but that is a lot of white to paint.
I’m a little ambivalent on the idea of a 10th edition reset. I think I’d like a restructuring to the game that allows for more interaction from the defending player (like Reactions) and less overall stratagems and stacking buffs. Additionally, I wish some units like Space Marine infantry were just a bit tougher without resorting to special rules like AoC or -1 damage, etc. I feel like a lot of the base statistics on data sheets just aren’t as impactful as they should be. On the other hand, both 8th & 9th have shown that there can be a healthy meta with good build variety when the existing rules are carefully cultivated. Also, I’m still smarting over the timing of 8th Edition’s Space Marine 2 codex and 9th Edition’s arrival, and I don’t wish that on any Votann or Guard player.
We’ll see what comes in (likely) less than a year though, and meanwhile Kill Team is amazing and getting better with each release.
Looks like it’s actually mostly Ulthuan Grey to me. There’s white in it for sure but on things like shoulder pads.
Nintendo Network ID: AzraelRose
DropBox invite link - get 500MB extra free.
I feel party they make the new codex Op to drive sales. Fomo and trend chasing as well
For my own part I'm trying to decide if I should go with a deeper violet purple as my main color, or something closer to a tyrian purple
I finally got Electro priests for the house army {the Custodes and AD Mech are house armies} So we just need the robots. We had agreed to do Ryza as our scheme and build it as a 1000+ army so I don't know about the flyer
I’m cynical enough to also have that thought, but I think anyone smart enough to implement this strategy would also be smart enough to realize that it would ultimately decrease sales as people lose faith in the competitive scene.
Are they actual lightsabers? Because the FF tabletop game actually had rules for a plasma sword and it was hilariously awful. It'd rip your face off for sure, but it was also a hot mess of downsides and the description was great. Basically it was a plasma generator thingie with a hose to the hilt. You turn it on and there's a massive wooshing noise as plasma shoots out and is contained by some magnetic fields. So you're character is then holding this super noisy, Unwieldy, plasma spewing monstrosity. You couldn't parry with it (or if you could it was a huge penalty because there was no physical blade), any fumbles were going to end in tears, and I'm not sure but I think there was also the risk of the power pack exploding if something bad happened. It was, of course, super rare and very expensive. An absolutely perfect 40k take on the lightsaber.
There is that one Beserker with the mole launcher who has their big axe being carried by the Ironkin and it is "off" and the whole blade section is gone, so it definitely seems like they have extendo plasma/light blades.
Heresy roadmap had those for August and September I think and we got none of them yet. Plus warcom weekly preview announced free rules for this week
On the other hand the current players in the competitive scene have already bought their models, so overtuned new hotness gets them to switch and build a new army for that edge until enough dataslates drop.
MWO: Adamski
Oh, certainly that happens but, 1) GW doesn’t make its money off of what tournament players do, they make it off of massive amounts of casual players who, 2) don’t play tournaments but are still affected by the tournament scene. As casual players feel disaffected by tournament results they lose interest and sales go down. Goonhammer wrote about this a bit ago, and if we can view Valrak as a stand-in for the average causal player it mirrors his views on 40K as a whole.
Of course I could be way off on my assessment: I’m not a Warhammer doctor or anything.
oh yeah, votann are gonna be at 70% winrate out the gate, it's pretty obvious they were way too heavily pushed
Knights should probably just not bother playing though.
They've already apparently been pre-emptively banned in Germany's competitive scene, it's entirely possible that other countries follow suit.
that is wild, and also a pretty terrible look for GW
My mate loves dwarfs and I’m not going to….begrudge him getting an army but I’m not a fan of this combination of mechanics.
The admech strat got a nerf which did a similar thing.
A casual player doesn't know tournament results. But they definitely know when in a casual game they bring the guys they think have sick models and their opponent brings the currently broken guys and it's Not Fun.
Eh, they fucked up balance egregiously with a new codex plenty of time in recent memory, they put out errata and changes to adjust the balance pretty quickly these days though.
I struggle to understand how some of these things get printed when obviously ridiculous upon first reading, let alone the playtesting they swear they're doing now, but they're a lot more responsive to correcting their mistakes in the last few years.
Probably splitting hairs at this point, but I’d argue that casual players do know what is or isn’t strong at the tournament level because that information trickles down throughout all the shared hobby spaces. Like, if you define casual as the guys who have no contact whatsoever outside of their similarly isolated friend-group, then yeah maybe they don’t know anything about the current meta. But in every local hobby shop and Warhammer store I’ve been in people talk, often endlessly, about the meta. They may not be right, or able to point out exactly why a army/unit is good, they will often conflate or extrapolate info incorrectly, and too often (in my experience) they’ll fail to understand why their own local meta is different to the tournament scene, but someone in the scene follows it just enough to at least know win rates, and almost everyone feels affected by them.
I don’t remember the exact article from goonhammer that talked about this, it might have been from one of their meta round ups? It certainly rang true to my experience.
It makes sense. The book is 100% utterly fucked. I wouldn't play that army whatsoever, but thankfully as it's new nobody will have much of it up and ready to go so there will hopefully be time for a nerf.
But it's easily a meta defining and gatekeeper army, again.
40k is just a disaster in terms of game design and balancing. They can't keep lurching from broken book to broken book like this.
I belong to a gaming club and yea I agree everyone will know what's strong, but I can name like two big tournaments, I don't know which ones went down this past weekend or the last and I certainly don't know who won them.
Honestly I feel like this gives too much credit to the tournament scene for identifying what's too strong. Let's be honest, most of the time everyone knows exactly what's way too good the moment they read the new rules for an army. The guys winning events will brainstorm and refine the army lists to the most broken possible, sure, but for the purpose of "and then my army with an old codex got wrecked" no one needs to be keeping their finger on the pulse of the North American meta or whatever.
So IMO you're just getting the cause and effect confused, it's not that tournament results reveal broken bullshit and that trickles down to the casual environment but that broken rules exist and (because winning games is popular!) are adopted en masse casually and honed to the cutting edge by the guys looking to win events and (IMO especially) the guys looking to fill content hours on Youtube talking about this stuff.
It's like Dergins in Age of Sigmar in many ways. They were difficult to deal with and your meta/list had to consider them when you were building a competitive list, because they were always going to turn up. The thing was, competitive players could adjust in that game and they could be beaten (they definitely did not get to the 70%+ win rates of 40k). Where Dergins were the biggest problem though was casual play, because they could easily spank any casual player list off the board just because of what they were.
LoV are both. They're a dreadful gatekeeper army that will be absolutely zero fun to play, I mean I don't even know what GSC would do about this shit, but they're also going to be heinously and utterly broken at the competitive level as well. It's entirely possible to shit on every form of play and need to be dealt with, even when the tournament and competitive scenes might adjust. It's possible very efficient hordes of bodies armies might be able to stand up to LoV. *Might*.
I am curious how fast LoV are going to get FAQed at this point - especially if they're being prebanned in some tournament scenes.