Just read through the goonhammer article on the Votann maths. Welp. A 100% chance to inflict 8 points of damage (and 75% chance to do 12 points) regardless of the target's toughness and invulnerable save. Also it's splash damage that spills over to other models in a unit.
oh yeah, votann are gonna be at 70% winrate out the gate, it's pretty obvious they were way too heavily pushed
They've already apparently been pre-emptively banned in Germany's competitive scene, it's entirely possible that other countries follow suit.
It makes sense. The book is 100% utterly fucked. I wouldn't play that army whatsoever, but thankfully as it's new nobody will have much of it up and ready to go so there will hopefully be time for a nerf.
But it's easily a meta defining and gatekeeper army, again.
40k is just a disaster in terms of game design and balancing. They can't keep lurching from broken book to broken book like this.
The power creep in this edition has been horrendous, far worse than it was in 8th (and that's including the nonsense of the Marine Codex and supplements that dropped at the end). It was only a year and a half ago that Drukhari were absolute terrors, but now you could revert all of their nerfs and they'd look downright quaint compared to Harlequins, Tyranids and Votann. Maybe even Creations of Bile.
Burnage on
0
Options
Librarian's ghostLibrarian, Ghostbuster, and TimSporkRegistered Userregular
Votann being OP isn’t really going to affect me since I’ll mostly be playing them against my friend who will also be playing Votann. Just both of us throwing grudges at each other.
Votann being OP isn’t really going to affect me since I’ll mostly be playing them against my friend who will also be playing Votann. Just both of us throwing grudges at each other.
You should each have a book that you write those down in. Or, maybe a singularly large book you share with different color inks.
We actually had a book of grudges at my first squadron. We would read from it at our Roll Calls and offended and offenders both would have to take shots! Highly recommend, would grudge again.
飛べねぇ豚はただの豚だ。
+12
Options
Lord_AsmodeusgoeticSobriquet:Here is your magical cryptic riddle-tumour: I AM A TIME MACHINERegistered Userregular
I'm somewhat less excited to play the Votann knowing they're super busted, since for one while I like winning I don't like feeling like I'm being cheap, and it also makes it less likely people will want to play against my army.
Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if Labor had not first existed. Labor is superior to capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. - Lincoln
+2
Options
MonwynApathy's a tragedy, and boredom is a crime.A little bit of everything, all of the time.Registered Userregular
I really want to give things the benefit of the doubt but it seems tribally easy to put judgement tokens on things and a weapon doing so many mortal wounds in a 4+ to hit just isn’t what I’d call a feel good moment, especially if you’re playing with friends.
My mate loves dwarfs and I’m not going to….begrudge him getting an army but I’m not a fan of this combination of mechanics.
The admech strat got a nerf which did a similar thing.
The AdMech strat was flatly worse and got nerfed in three different ways, and was only usable by one unit a turn instead of the whole goddamn army.
Void Armor is also Just Better than the Lucius trait, which also got nerfed.
0
Options
MonwynApathy's a tragedy, and boredom is a crime.A little bit of everything, all of the time.Registered Userregular
A casual player doesn't know tournament results. But they definitely know when in a casual game they bring the guys they think have sick models and their opponent brings the currently broken guys and it's Not Fun.
Probably splitting hairs at this point, but I’d argue that casual players do know what is or isn’t strong at the tournament level because that information trickles down throughout all the shared hobby spaces. Like, if you define casual as the guys who have no contact whatsoever outside of their similarly isolated friend-group, then yeah maybe they don’t know anything about the current meta. But in every local hobby shop and Warhammer store I’ve been in people talk, often endlessly, about the meta. They may not be right, or able to point out exactly why a army/unit is good, they will often conflate or extrapolate info incorrectly, and too often (in my experience) they’ll fail to understand why their own local meta is different to the tournament scene, but someone in the scene follows it just enough to at least know win rates, and almost everyone feels affected by them.
I don’t remember the exact article from goonhammer that talked about this, it might have been from one of their meta round ups? It certainly rang true to my experience.
I believe it was their site census analysis, which showed that like 97% of the readers hadn't played in a tournament in the last year.
One minute I was building a Blood Angels Heresy force... the next minute I was realizing that they probably needed a gun line detachment of Iron Hands to support them, since Day of Revelation wasn't really something to build an entire BA force around and would work better as an Allied Detachment.... and then all of a sudden a Daemons Combat Patrol was in my hand at the register....
The following people are amazing and I love them: Wildcat, Timspork, Kias, Denada, susan, Sharp101, [GHSC]Ryctor, Matev, Matrias, ItBurns, Slapnuts, Dayspring, see317, and the unknown poster that sent me a box of Death Company! If you get them as Santees you should buy them amazing things!
But in every local hobby shop and Warhammer store I’ve been in people talk, often endlessly, about the meta. They may not be right, or able to point out exactly why a army/unit is good, they will often conflate or extrapolate info incorrectly, and too often (in my experience) they’ll fail to understand why their own local meta is different to the tournament scene, but someone in the scene follows it just enough to at least know win rates, and almost everyone feels affected by them.
In my experience, this person is real, and they are often (sometimes innocently) the worst thing for a local casual/chill scene. They often speak/complain from a place of false expertise, scaring people away from solid armies by saying they're bad, or preventing people from playing an army they are legitimately interested in for fear of being mocked as a "flavor of the month" player.
Nax on
The following people are amazing and I love them: Wildcat, Timspork, Kias, Denada, susan, Sharp101, [GHSC]Ryctor, Matev, Matrias, ItBurns, Slapnuts, Dayspring, see317, and the unknown poster that sent me a box of Death Company! If you get them as Santees you should buy them amazing things!
Dreggins also got nerfed before they officially even released!
er...what the hell is a dreggin? I feel i'm missing some obvious slang here.
I've only played super chill casual mini games of 9th but from my perspective the huge amount of rules bloat and unrestrained rules one-upmanship feels a lot like the end of 7th with all its ridiculous detachments and factions getting multiple supplements. All codexes are almost out now right? After Guard and Daemons?
I could see another 6 months of mostly expansions and books and then a big reset next summer
It’s Guard and World Eaters this winter, which could mean up to February when they finally get released.
Rumours are 10th is coming, so probably July if that is true.
I’m expecting / hoping a lot of the rules bloat is going and that 40K takes some of the better things from AoS.
List building is an absolute pain so I’m hoping creating an army just becomes more simple. Maybe all those special weapon models and sergeants with pistol + ccw will see a use!
Redcoat-13 on
PSN Fleety2009
+1
Options
Halos Nach TariffCan you blame me?I'm too famous.Registered Userregular
Dreggins also got nerfed before they officially even released!
er...what the hell is a dreggin? I feel i'm missing some obvious slang here.
They're referring to the Stormdrake Guard, dragon-riding stormcast knights, which were a little overtuned on initial release (particularly in terms of mobility and toughness, alongside a spiky mortal wound output.)
So they have two new Old Foes up
Black Templars vs orks
I have the hype box + one more Crusaders squad I have not put them together because of room. I was trying to put a different head on the Marshal but it doesn't look right I don't have any rides or tanks for the primaris or pickled Grimaldus
I kind of just want the print
Now I am driving myself insane with this
I think it's a drukhari head
As i was building my last corsairs as the ones with the swords but I was going to do the same thing of mixing around parts to get different looks but I was looking at pics to see if anyone had any other tips and I saw this and it started to drive me insane
Why's it driving you insane? It definitely is a Drukhari head, pretty sure it's from the Kabalite kit. The Corsair and Drukhari heads seem interchangeable to me but weirdly the new Craftworld models are slightly frailer, which disappointed me because there are some great head sculpts on the new Rangers and Guardians kits.
Why's it driving you insane? It definitely is a Drukhari head, pretty sure it's from the Kabalite kit. The Corsair and Drukhari heads seem interchangeable to me but weirdly the new Craftworld models are slightly frailer, which disappointed me because there are some great head sculpts on the new Rangers and Guardians kits.
Because I thought it was but my parts bag/box of stuff is buried so I know I used that head on a wych but I am prety shaky mind wise because of work
The power sword for the Kabalite works for the corsairs and the other way around
The Sybarite I used the corsair's sword on and it looks like it fits?
0
Options
daveNYCWhy universe hate Waspinator?Registered Userregular
I think the key thing from the Goonhammer article is that the Votann are broken because they have easy access to things that just ignore the existing rules of the game. Ignoring invulnerability saves and having damage spill over on the same weapon is just nuts.
And Void Armor preventing re-rolls is certainly a new twist on the ever escalating wounds, damage, saves, ignoring saves, moar saves scale.
Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
Dreggins also got nerfed before they officially even released!
er...what the hell is a dreggin? I feel i'm missing some obvious slang here.
They're referring to the Stormdrake Guard, dragon-riding stormcast knights, which were a little overtuned on initial release (particularly in terms of mobility and toughness, alongside a spiky mortal wound output.)
Ahhh, dragons, of course. Thanks!
In my head I was imagining the conversation was about Eel spam and i was super confused trying to figure out the connection.
If I was in charge of 40k, I'd split the game into 2 types. (3 including kill team)
One would have the granularity and stratagems and such of current 40k, but the size would be capped at something akin to how 2k armies were around 2nd or 3rd ed. So like a couple troops choices, an elite type choice, one or two characters and a vehicle, dread or similar. I'd also limit what minis could play at that scale (so no primarchs, knights, super heavy tanks. Biggest things around would be a dread or a razorback).
Then I'd do a bigger scale game, all primarchs and knight armies and all the shit you see in modern armies, but streamline the fuck out of it. Much more abstract, like Epic used to be. Fuck it, just remake Epic at 32mm scale (then release it small scale too for nostalgia/cash)
GW I'm ready for my job offer now thanks in advance
I think the key thing from the Goonhammer article is that the Votann are broken because they have easy access to things that just ignore the existing rules of the game. Ignoring invulnerability saves and having damage spill over on the same weapon is just nuts.
And Void Armor preventing re-rolls is certainly a new twist on the ever escalating wounds, damage, saves, ignoring saves, moar saves scale.
I don’t mind the lack of re-rolls because I think the amount of re-rolls in the game is daft anyway.
I guess the competitive side might enjoy the reduction / elimination of chance but it is a dice rolling game rather than say chess (where you don’t roll to see how far your rook move and don’t roll to see if it takes a bishop).
Dreggins also got nerfed before they officially even released!
er...what the hell is a dreggin? I feel i'm missing some obvious slang here.
They're referring to the Stormdrake Guard, dragon-riding stormcast knights, which were a little overtuned on initial release (particularly in terms of mobility and toughness, alongside a spiky mortal wound output.)
Ahhh, dragons, of course. Thanks!
In my head I was imagining the conversation was about Eel spam and i was super confused trying to figure out the connection.
If I was in charge of 40k, I'd split the game into 2 types. (3 including kill team)
One would have the granularity and stratagems and such of current 40k, but the size would be capped at something akin to how 2k armies were around 2nd or 3rd ed. So like a couple troops choices, an elite type choice, one or two characters and a vehicle, dread or similar. I'd also limit what minis could play at that scale (so no primarchs, knights, super heavy tanks. Biggest things around would be a dread or a razorback).
Then I'd do a bigger scale game, all primarchs and knight armies and all the shit you see in modern armies, but streamline the fuck out of it. Much more abstract, like Epic used to be. Fuck it, just remake Epic at 32mm scale (then release it small scale too for nostalgia/cash)
GW I'm ready for my job offer now thanks in advance
This would absolutely be a better system, but I'm pretty convinced that current 40k's scale is due to a combination of pressure to increase models sales and the rules writers thinking "bigger is better" and wanting to give reasons for people to bring their big shiny toys. There's absolutely no reason that fucking Knights and Primarchs should be involved in a standard game of 40k, yet here we are.
Like, Apocalypse came out again just a few years ago and it floundered because 2k point armies in 40k are already plenty big... although there are some mad bastards near me who enjoy playing semi-regular 5k and larger point games, so YMMV.
They answered none of my questions, and the faq and errata is generally pretty bare bones. They did add palatine blades with jump packs. Didn't find any other changes in the Astartes legacy units so far.
Dreggins also got nerfed before they officially even released!
er...what the hell is a dreggin? I feel i'm missing some obvious slang here.
They're referring to the Stormdrake Guard, dragon-riding stormcast knights, which were a little overtuned on initial release (particularly in terms of mobility and toughness, alongside a spiky mortal wound output.)
Ahhh, dragons, of course. Thanks!
In my head I was imagining the conversation was about Eel spam and i was super confused trying to figure out the connection.
If I was in charge of 40k, I'd split the game into 2 types. (3 including kill team)
One would have the granularity and stratagems and such of current 40k, but the size would be capped at something akin to how 2k armies were around 2nd or 3rd ed. So like a couple troops choices, an elite type choice, one or two characters and a vehicle, dread or similar. I'd also limit what minis could play at that scale (so no primarchs, knights, super heavy tanks. Biggest things around would be a dread or a razorback).
Then I'd do a bigger scale game, all primarchs and knight armies and all the shit you see in modern armies, but streamline the fuck out of it. Much more abstract, like Epic used to be. Fuck it, just remake Epic at 32mm scale (then release it small scale too for nostalgia/cash)
GW I'm ready for my job offer now thanks in advance
This would absolutely be a better system, but I'm pretty convinced that current 40k's scale is due to a combination of pressure to increase models sales and the rules writers thinking "bigger is better" and wanting to give reasons for people to bring their big shiny toys. There's absolutely no reason that fucking Knights and Primarchs should be involved in a standard game of 40k, yet here we are.
Like, Apocalypse came out again just a few years ago and it floundered because 2k point armies in 40k are already plenty big... although there are some mad bastards near me who enjoy playing semi-regular 5k and larger point games, so YMMV.
Going a bit off topic here so apologies for the rant. I started typing and it got away from me. You have been warned lol
Primarchs at least are battle leaders, so they're out of scale for my tastes but i can't fault them too hard for making them in 40k.
whatshername the Sister of Battle Mecha suit character being a High Lord of Terra though, is completely damaging to the setting, imo.
The high lords, the rulers of the imperium should be so far removed from anything resembling the front lines, soldiers, or actual humanity that we see at most a job title or an illustration of one.
Same with the Emperor communicating psychically with various people and manifesting actual miracles. I know he's not exactly wheeling around like Professor X but he should be dead in all but a technicality. It should never be stated that he has any actual influence or ability to help his worshipers.
People say that the satire of the setting is watered down with so many heroic representations of Marines, and that's true, but the upper working of the imperium should be self absorbed, labyrinthine and disconnected from reality. Having some of the leaders running around having adventures and personalities (and presumably giving at least a partial shit about the mortals they're fighting alongside) really cuts the legs out from under the whole "Imperium = bad" thing.
I think the key thing from the Goonhammer article is that the Votann are broken because they have easy access to things that just ignore the existing rules of the game. Ignoring invulnerability saves and having damage spill over on the same weapon is just nuts.
And Void Armor preventing re-rolls is certainly a new twist on the ever escalating wounds, damage, saves, ignoring saves, moar saves scale.
I don’t mind the lack of re-rolls because I think the amount of re-rolls in the game is daft anyway.
I guess the competitive side might enjoy the reduction / elimination of chance but it is a dice rolling game rather than say chess (where you don’t roll to see how far your rook move and don’t roll to see if it takes a bishop).
For me it's two things:
1) GW doing the thing where they do X, and then doing something that bypasses X. Marines get two wounds, weapons that do two damage suddenly start showing up all over the place. Armor saves, increased AP weapons, invuln saves, mortal wounds, units with saves against mortal wounds, that whole progression.
2) Just balance-wise, a lot of things do re-rolls like you said, and that ability is priced into them, and this just makes that a lot of wasted points in a way, which is rough. Not as bad as the grav-weapon rule that made that fancypants 2+ save you paid for an actual liability, but it's not great.
Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
+3
Options
MonwynApathy's a tragedy, and boredom is a crime.A little bit of everything, all of the time.Registered Userregular
What are the size of the Fallout Wasteland Warriors minis? I’m going to buy a few anyway just cos I like the look of them, but it would be cool if I could add some flavour to some of my armies with their models
Anyone have good recommendations for creators of 3D printable Daemon minis? I don't mind paying or subscribing to a Patreon for quality stuff.
Also, if anyone happens to have an extra copy of the 9th Edition mini softcover rulebook from the Command Edition that they would be willing to part with, let me know!
Nax on
The following people are amazing and I love them: Wildcat, Timspork, Kias, Denada, susan, Sharp101, [GHSC]Ryctor, Matev, Matrias, ItBurns, Slapnuts, Dayspring, see317, and the unknown poster that sent me a box of Death Company! If you get them as Santees you should buy them amazing things!
0
Options
valhalla13013 Dark Shield Perceives the GodsRegistered Userregular
Dreggins also got nerfed before they officially even released!
er...what the hell is a dreggin? I feel i'm missing some obvious slang here.
They're referring to the Stormdrake Guard, dragon-riding stormcast knights, which were a little overtuned on initial release (particularly in terms of mobility and toughness, alongside a spiky mortal wound output.)
Ahhh, dragons, of course. Thanks!
In my head I was imagining the conversation was about Eel spam and i was super confused trying to figure out the connection.
If I was in charge of 40k, I'd split the game into 2 types. (3 including kill team)
One would have the granularity and stratagems and such of current 40k, but the size would be capped at something akin to how 2k armies were around 2nd or 3rd ed. So like a couple troops choices, an elite type choice, one or two characters and a vehicle, dread or similar. I'd also limit what minis could play at that scale (so no primarchs, knights, super heavy tanks. Biggest things around would be a dread or a razorback).
Then I'd do a bigger scale game, all primarchs and knight armies and all the shit you see in modern armies, but streamline the fuck out of it. Much more abstract, like Epic used to be. Fuck it, just remake Epic at 32mm scale (then release it small scale too for nostalgia/cash)
GW I'm ready for my job offer now thanks in advance
This would absolutely be a better system, but I'm pretty convinced that current 40k's scale is due to a combination of pressure to increase models sales and the rules writers thinking "bigger is better" and wanting to give reasons for people to bring their big shiny toys. There's absolutely no reason that fucking Knights and Primarchs should be involved in a standard game of 40k, yet here we are.
Like, Apocalypse came out again just a few years ago and it floundered because 2k point armies in 40k are already plenty big... although there are some mad bastards near me who enjoy playing semi-regular 5k and larger point games, so YMMV.
I bought the first knight model to paint someday, but I have zero interest in using it in a regular game. It would mean I would have to field fewer Imperial Fists.
I have 3 knights a Castellan and 6 armigers [war dogs really} I have only built and semi painted the Castellan. As I was interested in playing them in 40k and in heresy but the later all my questions get pointed to the book
I know Apoc games are huge now as just over 2k is the gaunt carpet. Many of my other forces i started long ago were from Apoc boxes that store did not sell and was using for prizes in a paid for tourney.
Did some more Kill Team yesterday at the FLGS. Had a ton of fun, made some new friends, and won my game vs. some Krieg.
Still at the top of the board baybee
- The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse (2017, colorized)
+9
Options
Librarian's ghostLibrarian, Ghostbuster, and TimSporkRegistered Userregular
My friend is trying to find a big leather bound tome with latches to create our Book of Grudges so we can keep detailed track of Out Votann when we play each other.
“I was there, the day that GW killed Initiative values.”
Good news! HH2 has Initiative values. And movement speeds!
Yesterday we were playing the "learn to play 40k missions" in the command edition and I was shocked when I realized where were no initiative values anymore.
As a complete 40k noob id love some suggestions on what minis to get and how to build tgem out/strategy.
If you haven't looked at it yet, the Tau Combat Patrol is ~450 points out of the box. I don't know anything about Tau though, so I'm not sure how effective the stuff it gives you is as a total force, but it does have one of the cool battlesuits in it.
- The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse (2017, colorized)
As a complete 40k noob id love some suggestions on what minis to get and how to build tgem out/strategy.
At that point cost youre looking at fire warriors, moderately armed crisis suits, and stealth suits. Maybe a Coldstar mech or a Fireblade for HQ units.
Posts
The power creep in this edition has been horrendous, far worse than it was in 8th (and that's including the nonsense of the Marine Codex and supplements that dropped at the end). It was only a year and a half ago that Drukhari were absolute terrors, but now you could revert all of their nerfs and they'd look downright quaint compared to Harlequins, Tyranids and Votann. Maybe even Creations of Bile.
You should each have a book that you write those down in. Or, maybe a singularly large book you share with different color inks.
We actually had a book of grudges at my first squadron. We would read from it at our Roll Calls and offended and offenders both would have to take shots! Highly recommend, would grudge again.
The AdMech strat was flatly worse and got nerfed in three different ways, and was only usable by one unit a turn instead of the whole goddamn army.
Void Armor is also Just Better than the Lucius trait, which also got nerfed.
I believe it was their site census analysis, which showed that like 97% of the readers hadn't played in a tournament in the last year.
Now, COVID probably impacted that, but still.
One minute I was building a Blood Angels Heresy force... the next minute I was realizing that they probably needed a gun line detachment of Iron Hands to support them, since Day of Revelation wasn't really something to build an entire BA force around and would work better as an Allied Detachment.... and then all of a sudden a Daemons Combat Patrol was in my hand at the register....
To steal a joke from another forum: "Leagues of Verbotann".
In my experience, this person is real, and they are often (sometimes innocently) the worst thing for a local casual/chill scene. They often speak/complain from a place of false expertise, scaring people away from solid armies by saying they're bad, or preventing people from playing an army they are legitimately interested in for fear of being mocked as a "flavor of the month" player.
er...what the hell is a dreggin? I feel i'm missing some obvious slang here.
I've only played super chill casual mini games of 9th but from my perspective the huge amount of rules bloat and unrestrained rules one-upmanship feels a lot like the end of 7th with all its ridiculous detachments and factions getting multiple supplements. All codexes are almost out now right? After Guard and Daemons?
I could see another 6 months of mostly expansions and books and then a big reset next summer
Rumours are 10th is coming, so probably July if that is true.
I’m expecting / hoping a lot of the rules bloat is going and that 40K takes some of the better things from AoS.
List building is an absolute pain so I’m hoping creating an army just becomes more simple. Maybe all those special weapon models and sergeants with pistol + ccw will see a use!
They're referring to the Stormdrake Guard, dragon-riding stormcast knights, which were a little overtuned on initial release (particularly in terms of mobility and toughness, alongside a spiky mortal wound output.)
Black Templars vs orks
I have the hype box + one more Crusaders squad I have not put them together because of room. I was trying to put a different head on the Marshal but it doesn't look right I don't have any rides or tanks for the primaris or pickled Grimaldus
I kind of just want the print
I think it's a drukhari head
As i was building my last corsairs as the ones with the swords but I was going to do the same thing of mixing around parts to get different looks but I was looking at pics to see if anyone had any other tips and I saw this and it started to drive me insane
Because I thought it was but my parts bag/box of stuff is buried so I know I used that head on a wych but I am prety shaky mind wise because of work
The power sword for the Kabalite works for the corsairs and the other way around
The Sybarite I used the corsair's sword on and it looks like it fits?
And Void Armor preventing re-rolls is certainly a new twist on the ever escalating wounds, damage, saves, ignoring saves, moar saves scale.
Ahhh, dragons, of course. Thanks!
In my head I was imagining the conversation was about Eel spam and i was super confused trying to figure out the connection.
If I was in charge of 40k, I'd split the game into 2 types. (3 including kill team)
One would have the granularity and stratagems and such of current 40k, but the size would be capped at something akin to how 2k armies were around 2nd or 3rd ed. So like a couple troops choices, an elite type choice, one or two characters and a vehicle, dread or similar. I'd also limit what minis could play at that scale (so no primarchs, knights, super heavy tanks. Biggest things around would be a dread or a razorback).
Then I'd do a bigger scale game, all primarchs and knight armies and all the shit you see in modern armies, but streamline the fuck out of it. Much more abstract, like Epic used to be. Fuck it, just remake Epic at 32mm scale (then release it small scale too for nostalgia/cash)
GW I'm ready for my job offer now thanks in advance
I don’t mind the lack of re-rolls because I think the amount of re-rolls in the game is daft anyway.
I guess the competitive side might enjoy the reduction / elimination of chance but it is a dice rolling game rather than say chess (where you don’t roll to see how far your rook move and don’t roll to see if it takes a bishop).
This would absolutely be a better system, but I'm pretty convinced that current 40k's scale is due to a combination of pressure to increase models sales and the rules writers thinking "bigger is better" and wanting to give reasons for people to bring their big shiny toys. There's absolutely no reason that fucking Knights and Primarchs should be involved in a standard game of 40k, yet here we are.
Like, Apocalypse came out again just a few years ago and it floundered because 2k point armies in 40k are already plenty big... although there are some mad bastards near me who enjoy playing semi-regular 5k and larger point games, so YMMV.
Mechanicum legacy unit rules
Update for Astartes legacy unit rules
FAQs for all the books
Going a bit off topic here so apologies for the rant. I started typing and it got away from me. You have been warned lol
Primarchs at least are battle leaders, so they're out of scale for my tastes but i can't fault them too hard for making them in 40k.
whatshername the Sister of Battle Mecha suit character being a High Lord of Terra though, is completely damaging to the setting, imo.
The high lords, the rulers of the imperium should be so far removed from anything resembling the front lines, soldiers, or actual humanity that we see at most a job title or an illustration of one.
Same with the Emperor communicating psychically with various people and manifesting actual miracles. I know he's not exactly wheeling around like Professor X but he should be dead in all but a technicality. It should never be stated that he has any actual influence or ability to help his worshipers.
People say that the satire of the setting is watered down with so many heroic representations of Marines, and that's true, but the upper working of the imperium should be self absorbed, labyrinthine and disconnected from reality. Having some of the leaders running around having adventures and personalities (and presumably giving at least a partial shit about the mortals they're fighting alongside) really cuts the legs out from under the whole "Imperium = bad" thing.
For me it's two things:
1) GW doing the thing where they do X, and then doing something that bypasses X. Marines get two wounds, weapons that do two damage suddenly start showing up all over the place. Armor saves, increased AP weapons, invuln saves, mortal wounds, units with saves against mortal wounds, that whole progression.
2) Just balance-wise, a lot of things do re-rolls like you said, and that ability is priced into them, and this just makes that a lot of wasted points in a way, which is rough. Not as bad as the grav-weapon rule that made that fancypants 2+ save you paid for an actual liability, but it's not great.
Oh this is for Heresy, not 40k. Damn. Was really hoping to get the [edit: AdMech] Forgeworld models in 9th.
Also, if anyone happens to have an extra copy of the 9th Edition mini softcover rulebook from the Command Edition that they would be willing to part with, let me know!
I bought the first knight model to paint someday, but I have zero interest in using it in a regular game. It would mean I would have to field fewer Imperial Fists.
I know Apoc games are huge now as just over 2k is the gaunt carpet. Many of my other forces i started long ago were from Apoc boxes that store did not sell and was using for prizes in a paid for tourney.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/09/22/heresy-thursday-two-new-praetors-make-today-a-double-death-guard-debut/
“I was there, the day that GW killed Initiative values.”
Good news! HH2 has Initiative values. And movement speeds!
Nintendo Network ID: AzraelRose
DropBox invite link - get 500MB extra free.
Still at the top of the board baybee
- The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse (2017, colorized)
Yesterday we were playing the "learn to play 40k missions" in the command edition and I was shocked when I realized where were no initiative values anymore.
As a complete 40k noob id love some suggestions on what minis to get and how to build tgem out/strategy.
Origin ID: Discgolfer27
Untappd ID: Discgolfer1981
If you haven't looked at it yet, the Tau Combat Patrol is ~450 points out of the box. I don't know anything about Tau though, so I'm not sure how effective the stuff it gives you is as a total force, but it does have one of the cool battlesuits in it.
- The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse (2017, colorized)
At that point cost youre looking at fire warriors, moderately armed crisis suits, and stealth suits. Maybe a Coldstar mech or a Fireblade for HQ units.
Oh and pathfinders.