I think vamps is absolutely the best deck of the format by a wide margin. The card quality is tremendous, the sweepers play as Plague Winds against every other deck, and the ability to hold up your commander is very powerful.
Naya tokens is a good aggro/go wide deck; it beats Bant by easily going over the top and it beats Connive.dek because most of what it draws is underwhelming and it lacks on sweepers.
Mr. Orfeo is basically a combo deck. It loses badly to conniving having insane answer velocity for single targets but it hangs with tokens and vamps if they have a slower start or don't find the right answer at the right time.
Connive and especially bant weenies suffer badly from being able to draw a ton of cards that don't do anything or cycling away cards into near identical cards, but connive can at least answer key targets or go over the top.
E: I guess in summary, vampires gets card advantage for playing good creatures, and the other decks get one or the other
I'm not sure, but I think the only way to make that work in paper would be to take a note from Conspiracy and "note its name".
So, like,
Pass the Torch deals 2 damage to any target. Reveal a creature card from your hand and note its name. When one or more creatures with a name you noted for cards named Pass the Torch deals damage to a player, you may cast target card named Pass the Torch from your graveyard without paying its mana cost. If you do, erase the noted name.
Which is... monumentally more clunky.
Magic doesn't really have good ways to assign things to cards in hidden zones that stay on those cards once they're in public zones.
The way you make it work in paper is somewhere between Haunt and Cipher. That is, the creature has to be on the battlefield* instead of in your hand. This obviously makes it easier to disrupt.
*Or maybe any public zone, using Skullbriar as precedent.
ShadowenSnores in the morningLoserdomRegistered Userregular
edited June 2022
Well if people can get Alchemy mechanics to work in paper without them being overly complicated, Alchemy could stop existing, as Alchemy cards could be part of the paper set.
They're doing a service, really.
Shadowen on
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KwoaruConfident SmirkFlawless Golden PecsRegistered Userregular
The closest I can think of is to exile a card from your hand with the spell under it.
When in doubt just use the exile zone
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Exile creature card with a torch counter; Cast creature from exile; Cast torch from GY by removing all torch counters from creature
Well if people can get Alchemy mechanics to work in paper without them being overly complicated, Alchemy could stop existing, as Alchemy cards could be part of the paper set.
They're doing a service, really.
Yeah, no. Fuck Alchemy hard. They are still gonna push that design space on normal cards hard. And fucking me over by not curating it off to its own section away from historic.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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Kevin CristI make the devil hit his kneesand say the 'our father'Registered Userregular
Town Razer Tyrant could work on paper with putting a counter on targeted land.
Nothing from New Capenna Alchemy looks really interesting to me though.
Well if people can get Alchemy mechanics to work in paper without them being overly complicated, Alchemy could stop existing, as Alchemy cards could be part of the paper set.
They're doing a service, really.
Yeah, no. Fuck Alchemy hard. They are still gonna push that design space on normal cards hard. And fucking me over by not curating it off to its own section away from historic.
Re: that wording, creatures don't maintain counters when they change zones, but you could fix it by saying "exile a creature card from your hand. You may cast that card from exile; if you cast a card this way, it enters the battlefield with a torch counter. Whenever a creature you control with a torch counter deals combat damage to your opponent, you may remove a torch counter from it. If you removed a counter this way, you may cast ~ from your graveyard."
Re: Historic, Historic was always a weird bastard format so now that we have Explorer/Pioneer I don't really care too much about Alchemy affecting it (besides Brawl, but Brawl is also a weird bastard format).
Town Razer Tyrant could work on paper with putting a counter on targeted land.
Nothing from New Capenna Alchemy looks really interesting to me though.
Yeah, that's literally something they've done in paper since forever - modify rules text and use a counter to mark it. At least as far back as the original Kamigawa block (for the oldest case I can think of)
We've had Obsidian Fireheart for over a decade now, the technology to put counters on lands and having the land deal damage to its controller is old hat. Nothing about that card needs to be digital-only.
honestly that's the kind of dumbass shit i want if you're going to print alchemy only cards. give me the dumbass thousand-year-storm goofy enchantments but with digital mechanics
...that enchantment is fucking broken and they know it.
...great now I have an idea for a song parody titled "It's Broken And We Know It"
Less headmeat-poisony, however: their defense of stupid shit cards like this will probably be "well if it does unbalance the format we can just rebalance it, that's the point", and that's what I've been dreading all along about Alchemy.
I actually think that's one of the easiest ones to keep track of. You just need like a d20 and tick it up one every end step the card is on the field.
Edit. - ah, I didn't think about tokens
In paper you'd just make an enchantment that ticked up every turn as an ever increasing anthem instead.
well the specific quirk here here with how it works with tokens is that it doesn't buff tokens UNLESS they're on the field, BUT, it does not start buffing tokens UNTIL they're on the field. if you just make it tick up as an anthem, a token you play on turn 10 is as strong as you play on turn 5. the way perpetual works, there's 5 p/t of difference with this card
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ShadowenSnores in the morningLoserdomRegistered Userregular
And the other thing is that if your opponent manages to take it out but it takes a few turns, all the creatures affected by it are still buffed for the rest of the game. It's not an anthem, it's an earworm, but only for people who heard it the first time.
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admanbunionize your workplaceSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
And the other thing is that if your opponent manages to take it out but it takes a few turns, all the creatures affected by it are still buffed for the rest of the game. It's not an anthem, it's an earworm, but only for people who heard it the first time.
You could fix that part by having it give you an Emblem each turn, but it would behave wrong with tokens.
And the other thing is that if your opponent manages to take it out but it takes a few turns, all the creatures affected by it are still buffed for the rest of the game. It's not an anthem, it's an earworm, but only for people who heard it the first time.
You could fix that part by having it give you an Emblem each turn, but it would behave wrong with tokens.
Just make it work on non-token things
Tokens deserve nothing
Kwoaru on
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admanbunionize your workplaceSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
And the other thing is that if your opponent manages to take it out but it takes a few turns, all the creatures affected by it are still buffed for the rest of the game. It's not an anthem, it's an earworm, but only for people who heard it the first time.
You could fix that part by having it give you an Emblem each turn, but it would behave wrong with tokens.
honestly a big expensive anthem that just ticked up like that, six or seven mana, probably totally fair. it's just an enchantment. especially with sagas becoming as evergreen as they're getting, enchantment removal is as efficient as ever
I needed anime to post. on
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KalTorakOne way or another, they all end up inthe Undercity.Registered Userregular
T5 it does nothing except buff your blockers. T6 it's a five-mana Glorious Anthem (overpriced by two mana, but perpetual is an upside). T7 it's just Dictate of Heliod (minus flash and general speed, plus perpetual). T8 it gives +3/+3 and is actually above-rate.
I don't know that a GW deck is going to T8 in Alchemy, though. I guess you'd ramp this out if you wanted to play it?
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turtleantGunpla Dadis the best.Registered Userregular
The perpetual is the trick. Every turn it sticks around is value your opponent can do literally nothing about. You just have better creatures forever.
Idk if that makes the card good but it's a really bad uninteractive design imo.
I hadn't noticed it until it was pointed out to me, but this is now the third set in a row to add a new way for Devoted Druid to go infinite. Myrkul makes an noncreature enchantment copy of it after it kills itself.
I hadn't noticed it until it was pointed out to me, but this is now the third set in a row to add a new way for Devoted Druid to go infinite. Myrkul makes an noncreature enchantment copy of it after it kills itself.
This just in: Devoted Druid is a broken combo piece.
I hadn't noticed it until it was pointed out to me, but this is now the third set in a row to add a new way for Devoted Druid to go infinite. Myrkul makes an noncreature enchantment copy of it after it kills itself.
This just in: Devoted Druid is a broken combo piece.
It feels like a lot of the stuff that goes infinite with it is pretty recent though.
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Naya tokens is a good aggro/go wide deck; it beats Bant by easily going over the top and it beats Connive.dek because most of what it draws is underwhelming and it lacks on sweepers.
Mr. Orfeo is basically a combo deck. It loses badly to conniving having insane answer velocity for single targets but it hangs with tokens and vamps if they have a slower start or don't find the right answer at the right time.
Connive and especially bant weenies suffer badly from being able to draw a ton of cards that don't do anything or cycling away cards into near identical cards, but connive can at least answer key targets or go over the top.
E: I guess in summary, vampires gets card advantage for playing good creatures, and the other decks get one or the other
This is so close to being possible to do in paper Magic but perpetual's ability to survive zone changes gives this more oomph.
If it really works on something who knows, maybe one day they'll go "this is worth figuring out how to do in paper" for that specific card
So, like, Which is... monumentally more clunky.
Magic doesn't really have good ways to assign things to cards in hidden zones that stay on those cards once they're in public zones.
*Or maybe any public zone, using Skullbriar as precedent.
"Cipher Shock that constantly changes hosts" is a cool concept.
is he wrong though
3DS: 0473-8507-2652
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They're doing a service, really.
When in doubt just use the exile zone
Yeah, no. Fuck Alchemy hard. They are still gonna push that design space on normal cards hard. And fucking me over by not curating it off to its own section away from historic.
Nothing from New Capenna Alchemy looks really interesting to me though.
Steam: YOU FACE JARAXXUS| Twitch.tv: CainLoveless
Re: that wording, creatures don't maintain counters when they change zones, but you could fix it by saying "exile a creature card from your hand. You may cast that card from exile; if you cast a card this way, it enters the battlefield with a torch counter. Whenever a creature you control with a torch counter deals combat damage to your opponent, you may remove a torch counter from it. If you removed a counter this way, you may cast ~ from your graveyard."
Re: Historic, Historic was always a weird bastard format so now that we have Explorer/Pioneer I don't really care too much about Alchemy affecting it (besides Brawl, but Brawl is also a weird bastard format).
Yeah, that's literally something they've done in paper since forever - modify rules text and use a counter to mark it. At least as far back as the original Kamigawa block (for the oldest case I can think of)
3DS: 0473-8507-2652
Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
PSN: AbEntropy
"Hey, Brokers Ascendancy is only broken in limited, right?"
"Pretty much. Why do you ask?"
3DS: 0473-8507-2652
Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
PSN: AbEntropy
Edit. - ah, I didn't think about tokens
i don't think alchemy is slow enough for it to be broken
...great now I have an idea for a song parody titled "It's Broken And We Know It"
Less headmeat-poisony, however: their defense of stupid shit cards like this will probably be "well if it does unbalance the format we can just rebalance it, that's the point", and that's what I've been dreading all along about Alchemy.
In paper you'd just make an enchantment that ticked up every turn as an ever increasing anthem instead.
3DS: 0473-8507-2652
Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
PSN: AbEntropy
well the specific quirk here here with how it works with tokens is that it doesn't buff tokens UNLESS they're on the field, BUT, it does not start buffing tokens UNTIL they're on the field. if you just make it tick up as an anthem, a token you play on turn 10 is as strong as you play on turn 5. the way perpetual works, there's 5 p/t of difference with this card
You could fix that part by having it give you an Emblem each turn, but it would behave wrong with tokens.
Just make it work on non-token things
Tokens deserve nothing
can’t believe this tokenism
(and I like creatures)
I don't know that a GW deck is going to T8 in Alchemy, though. I guess you'd ramp this out if you wanted to play it?
Idk if that makes the card good but it's a really bad uninteractive design imo.
3DS: 0473-8507-2652
Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
PSN: AbEntropy
This just in: Devoted Druid is a broken combo piece.
It feels like a lot of the stuff that goes infinite with it is pretty recent though.
3DS: 0473-8507-2652
Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
PSN: AbEntropy