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[Baldur's Gate 3] Grin & Bear It

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  • MilskiMilski Poyo! Registered User regular
    edited August 2023
    Like, y'all are insisting that months out of date early access builds of Karmic Dice are how it works now despite them explicitly patching it to work differently and changing the description, and then acting like the people who think it works how Larian says it works are confused. That's wild.

    Milski on
    I ate an engineer
  • autono-wally, erotibot300autono-wally, erotibot300 love machine Registered User regular
    1vya583ju9nc.png
    why do all of these look like an animal sneaking around a wine bottle...

    kFJhXwE.jpgkFJhXwE.jpg
  • ED!ED! Registered User regular
    Okay game. I get it. Don't call people - especially powerful people - on their bluffs. But can you please gimme some more autosaves when I'm getting to the point of no return on some of these conversations. Sheesh.

    Also - "Githyanki. Slowly. Painfully." Yup, you're all getting "Oakheart's justice."
    milski wrote: »
    Smrtnik wrote: »
    I think there is some confusion about what karmic dice do, so to clarify:

    Karmic on:
    - if you've been failing a lot recently, you will succeed
    - if you've been succeeding a lot recently, you will fail
    - if the enemies have been failing a lot, they will do succeed
    - if the enemies have been succeeding a lot, they will fail
    - your success rate is part of the save file


    Meaning: if you save a file right after succeeding a lot, you are near guaranteed to fail no matter how many times you reload


    Karmic off: any roll could be any number any time. You might get streaks or not, it's all random. Even coinflips you might get 10 heads in a row (though it is unlikely). Reloading may even get you the exact same result, is a 1/20 chance on a d20 after all. But it's 19/20 for a different result.

    Which one you prefer is individual preference.

    I have seen literally no evidence for any of the bolded at all, and it explicitly contradicts the description which suggests it only avoids failure streaks. Is there a reason I missed people insist this is how it works?

    I believe it is only the second bolded that is no longer true. The first would seem to be based on what I've seen across the webs. I also turned that garbage off and I haven't been happier. Yeah you can get a bunch of dumb rolls, but you're also not failing shit that you absolutely shouldn't (I spent an ungodly amount of time trying to roll something with 1-4 odds, well beyond the number of - slow - reloads I should've had to roll).

    "Get the hell out of me" - [ex]girlfriend
  • MilskiMilski Poyo! Registered User regular
    edited August 2023
    Yeah I'm gonna need more evidence than vibes for discussing an RNG, that's the number 1 internet scenario for people being confidently incorrect. The extent to which I've seen discussion online using any data is still referencing a closed beta test that Larian explicitly said was the result of a now patched bug on an older implementation of Karmic dice.

    Milski on
    I ate an engineer
  • MirkelMirkel FinlandRegistered User regular
    edited August 2023
    milski wrote: »
    Yeah I'm gonna need more evidence than vibes for discussing an RNG, that's the number 1 internet scenario for people being confidently incorrect. The extent to which I've seen discussion online using any data is still referencing a closed beta test that Larian explicitly said was the result of a now patched bug on an older implementation of Karmic dice.

    The way our brains work just goes totally against intuitively understanding RNG. It's a whole lot of "I've been failing a lot which means I should get a 20 soon" or "my luck is bad today" and so on when RNG doesn't care about past results at all, it's just random. And our brains try to find patterns and meaning instead of accepting that there's neither.

    Mirkel on
  • DonnictonDonnicton Registered User regular
    ED! wrote: »
    Okay game. I get it. Don't call people - especially powerful people - on their bluffs. But can you please gimme some more autosaves when I'm getting to the point of no return on some of these conversations. Sheesh.

    Also - "Githyanki. Slowly. Painfully." Yup, you're all getting "Oakheart's justice."
    milski wrote: »
    Smrtnik wrote: »
    I think there is some confusion about what karmic dice do, so to clarify:

    Karmic on:
    - if you've been failing a lot recently, you will succeed
    - if you've been succeeding a lot recently, you will fail
    - if the enemies have been failing a lot, they will do succeed
    - if the enemies have been succeeding a lot, they will fail
    - your success rate is part of the save file


    Meaning: if you save a file right after succeeding a lot, you are near guaranteed to fail no matter how many times you reload


    Karmic off: any roll could be any number any time. You might get streaks or not, it's all random. Even coinflips you might get 10 heads in a row (though it is unlikely). Reloading may even get you the exact same result, is a 1/20 chance on a d20 after all. But it's 19/20 for a different result.

    Which one you prefer is individual preference.

    I have seen literally no evidence for any of the bolded at all, and it explicitly contradicts the description which suggests it only avoids failure streaks. Is there a reason I missed people insist this is how it works?

    I believe it is only the second bolded that is no longer true. The first would seem to be based on what I've seen across the webs. I also turned that garbage off and I haven't been happier. Yeah you can get a bunch of dumb rolls, but you're also not failing shit that you absolutely shouldn't (I spent an ungodly amount of time trying to roll something with 1-4 odds, well beyond the number of - slow - reloads I should've had to roll).

    You can save/load mid-conversation, just FYI

  • Jam WarriorJam Warrior Registered User regular
    edited August 2023
    Does the Karmic Dice work on rolled numbers or successes? If raw rolled numbers that's fine. If successes then you'd be punishing people later on for making easy checks now, which is silly.

    Jam Warrior on
    MhCw7nZ.gif
  • MilskiMilski Poyo! Registered User regular
    Does the Karmic Dice work on rolled numbers or successes? If raw rolled numbers that's fine. If successes then you'd be punishing people later on for making easy checks now, which is silly.

    It doesn't ever lower your rolls per the description, so successes don't matter except in that they may make Karmic dice less positive in the near future

    I ate an engineer
  • ED!ED! Registered User regular
    milski wrote: »
    Yeah I'm gonna need more evidence than vibes for discussing an RNG, that's the number 1 internet scenario for people being confidently incorrect. The extent to which I've seen discussion online using any data is still referencing a closed beta test that Larian explicitly said was the result of a now patched bug on an older implementation of Karmic dice.

    Everything on a simple Google of "karmic dice" matches what was posted (and it's certainly how I understood it from pre-release descriptions). Until LARIAN flat out comes out and says how it works beyond a one line text, you're kind of just going off "vibes" (and painstaking tracking of dice rolls as some folks on reddit were doing).

    "Get the hell out of me" - [ex]girlfriend
  • MilskiMilski Poyo! Registered User regular
    edited August 2023
    ED! wrote: »
    milski wrote: »
    Yeah I'm gonna need more evidence than vibes for discussing an RNG, that's the number 1 internet scenario for people being confidently incorrect. The extent to which I've seen discussion online using any data is still referencing a closed beta test that Larian explicitly said was the result of a now patched bug on an older implementation of Karmic dice.

    Everything on a simple Google of "karmic dice" matches what was posted (and it's certainly how I understood it from pre-release descriptions). Until LARIAN flat out comes out and says how it works beyond a one line text, you're kind of just going off "vibes" (and painstaking tracking of dice rolls as some folks on reddit were doing).

    The prerelease descriptions they explicitly changed in a patch while saying they were changing how it works? The thing they did come out and explicitly say?

    I am unclear why that isn't enough evidence for you.

    Milski on
    I ate an engineer
  • The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    milski wrote: »
    ED! wrote: »
    milski wrote: »
    Yeah I'm gonna need more evidence than vibes for discussing an RNG, that's the number 1 internet scenario for people being confidently incorrect. The extent to which I've seen discussion online using any data is still referencing a closed beta test that Larian explicitly said was the result of a now patched bug on an older implementation of Karmic dice.

    Everything on a simple Google of "karmic dice" matches what was posted (and it's certainly how I understood it from pre-release descriptions). Until LARIAN flat out comes out and says how it works beyond a one line text, you're kind of just going off "vibes" (and painstaking tracking of dice rolls as some folks on reddit were doing).

    The prerelease descriptions they explicitly changed in a patch while saying they were changing how it works? The thing they did come out and explicitly say?

    I am unclear why that isn't enough evidence for you.

    Maybe instead of arguing in circles with people, you could provide a source and a quote rather than being a goose about it?

    Ideas hate it when you anthropomorphize them
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  • FiatilFiatil Registered User regular
    edited August 2023
    Since no one wants to do it, this appears to be the hotfix change that's being talked about a lot for karmic dice.

    yzhdr682d6u6.png
    It's from 2021, and there appears to have been no announced modification since then.

    Basically yeah it only works to increase success chance, but it does work for enemies too. So enemies will succeed/hit more often in combat, you will too, and for dialogue it should be a pure positive (though the complicate matters, the patch notes specifically refers to only combat rolls -- does it affect conversation at all? Dunno). Also at some point it was changed from being labelled "weighted dice" to the current "karmic dice", but I don't see anything about an actual mechanical change that goes along with that.

    I have no idea based on that post if it works on the roll or success chance. Like, does it partially negate having high AC by guaranteeing success after a long time, or does it just stop the AI from rolling 1s and 2s over and over again and your high AC will still have a big impact? I'm guessing the latter but have no idea beyond that.

    Fiatil on
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  • The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    Hahnsoo1 wrote: »
    milski wrote: »
    I don't think Karmic Dice are a problem at all and I find it odd the degree to which people are convinced that they are, especially in a way that differs from their in game description.

    Like, I have routinely had very poor success with lockpicking in game relative to everything else, but I know that's just statistics and that it'd be very weird to start thinking they put a system in specifically to break your lockpicks when you have too many.

    Yeah I tried with karmic dice off for a few hours and I did not notice things getting better. If anything it got even more x-com, so I switched it back to karmic. Wouldn't it be funny if in a few months it turns out the check box does nothing at all, and it's purely placebo?

    Funnily enough, the new X-com games also do something similar to karmic dice by default. But they also by default tie the rolls to a seed to prevent save scumming for different results.

    Ha! They try!

    So it's actually funny how that works. They set the result, andi t's seeded... but it's not seeded per action. It's just seeded for the turn.

    So the results might be like 90, 60, 80, 70. So with save scumming you can match actions to the results you need and game the system hilariously.

    Ideas hate it when you anthropomorphize them
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  • ED!ED! Registered User regular
    milski wrote: »
    ED! wrote: »
    milski wrote: »
    Yeah I'm gonna need more evidence than vibes for discussing an RNG, that's the number 1 internet scenario for people being confidently incorrect. The extent to which I've seen discussion online using any data is still referencing a closed beta test that Larian explicitly said was the result of a now patched bug on an older implementation of Karmic dice.

    Everything on a simple Google of "karmic dice" matches what was posted (and it's certainly how I understood it from pre-release descriptions). Until LARIAN flat out comes out and says how it works beyond a one line text, you're kind of just going off "vibes" (and painstaking tracking of dice rolls as some folks on reddit were doing).

    The prerelease descriptions they explicitly changed in a patch while saying they were changing how it works? The thing they did come out and explicitly say?

    I am unclear why that isn't enough evidence for you.

    I mean. . .the actual "evidence" would be pretty good evidence.

    . . .as for its implementation, after playing with it on for 80 or so hours, and playing with it off through the creche - off is a much better experience. The situation where I spent nearly an hour (or it felt like it) of reloads to get a good sequence of rolls was wild and absolutely felt like the odds were not correct and weighted AGAINST me. Off feels exactly how you would expect the game and its rolls to go - good and bad.

    "Get the hell out of me" - [ex]girlfriend
  • FiatilFiatil Registered User regular
    edited August 2023
    Still no idea how it affects dialogue, but someone on reddit ran a test (after the hotfix change to karmic/weighted dice in 2021) showing that the part where it applies to enemies does appear to have a pretty massive difference on hit chance against high AC characters:

    i9mi8zckpxxn.png

    Fiatil on
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  • MilskiMilski Poyo! Registered User regular
    edited August 2023
    Fiatil wrote: »
    Still no idea how it affects dialogue, but someone on reddit ran a test (after the hotfix change to karmic/weighted dice in 2021) showing that the part where it applies to enemies does appear to have a pretty massive difference on hit chance against high AC characters:

    i9mi8zckpxxn.png

    Yes, that was the test run that the devs explicitly responded to in the linked thread saying that it was a combination of a bug they fixed and intentionally testing an edge case (extremely high AC + tons of trash mobs attacking = worst case for a system that avoids miss streaks).

    I'm not saying that the totally random system might not feel better but at the same time there's still literally zero evidence that it reduces your (or enemy) rolls or that it tracks across an entire save file

    Milski on
    I ate an engineer
  • FiatilFiatil Registered User regular
    edited August 2023
    milski wrote: »
    Fiatil wrote: »
    Still no idea how it affects dialogue, but someone on reddit ran a test (after the hotfix change to karmic/weighted dice in 2021) showing that the part where it applies to enemies does appear to have a pretty massive difference on hit chance against high AC characters:

    i9mi8zckpxxn.png

    Yes, that was the test run that the devs explicitly responded to in the linked thread saying that it was a combination of a bug they fixed and intentionally testing an edge case (extremely high AC + tons of trash mobs attacking = worst case for a system that avoids miss streaks)

    Since it seems like I'm just re-doing digging you're already familiar with, and you're the one telling all of the other posters they're wrong:

    Could you explain it to us with some references, please? There's really not much info I'm seeing outside of that hotfix and thread, a very short tooltip in-game, and a ton of people guessing. I agree that crowdsourcing the interpretation of RNG to the internet is a really bad way to figure out how the dice are working, but you're also making lots of strong claims without showing your work like the people you disagree with.

    Fiatil on
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  • Dr. ChaosDr. Chaos Post nuclear nuisance Registered User regular
    edited August 2023
    Cruor wrote: »
    Dr. Chaos wrote: »
    The tadpole powers are great but really highlights how much it fucking annoys me that rage isn't some sort of swift action or something you can pop before battle.

    Takes too long to get my berserker set up like I want to because everything is a bonus action.

    Multiclass into rogue, take the thief subclass at level 3, and you'll get two bonus actions per turn. Also, you will get sneak attack every time you reckless attack (make sure to set Sneak Attack to trigger automatically under your spellbook -> reactions tab)
    Hmm. Its not a bad idea but I still want ten levels of barb total.

    Barbarian Berseker has nothing going after lv10 that I need or is a big power boost so it leaves two levels open to screw around with multiclassing I guess.

    Dr. Chaos on
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  • MilskiMilski Poyo! Registered User regular
    edited August 2023
    Fiatil wrote: »
    milski wrote: »
    Fiatil wrote: »
    Still no idea how it affects dialogue, but someone on reddit ran a test (after the hotfix change to karmic/weighted dice in 2021) showing that the part where it applies to enemies does appear to have a pretty massive difference on hit chance against high AC characters:

    i9mi8zckpxxn.png

    Yes, that was the test run that the devs explicitly responded to in the linked thread saying that it was a combination of a bug they fixed and intentionally testing an edge case (extremely high AC + tons of trash mobs attacking = worst case for a system that avoids miss streaks)

    Since it seems like I'm just re-doing digging you're already familiar with, and you're the one telling all of the other posters they're wrong:

    Could you explain it to us with some references, please? There's really not much info I'm seeing outside of that hotfix and thread, a very short tooltip in-game, and a ton of people guessing.

    Here's the link:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/comments/159ss0q/comment/jtqhot5/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=usertext&utm_name=BaldursGate3&utm_content=t1_ju15uus

    I am not sure what else I can provide, because I am effectively being asked to prove a negative here. Larian patched Karmic dice to work a certain way two years ago. There is no indication in game that they reduce player or enemy rolls. We have the game tooltip and Larian patch ones agreeing with this interpretation, and even the test here is only showing enemies overperforming expectations. It seems like the burden of proof here would be on anybody who believes that it does tank their rolls, against all official statements, and there has been zero evidence ever presented for this besides individual anecdotes.

    Milski on
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  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    It affects enemy die rolls as well, as Larian stated, and the enemies are going to be rolling a lot more dice than the player.

    So it's a bigger help to the enemies than the player.

  • MilskiMilski Poyo! Registered User regular
    edited August 2023
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    It affects enemy die rolls as well, as Larian stated, and the enemies are going to be rolling a lot more dice than the player.

    So it's a bigger help to the enemies than the player.

    This may be (the fact that the game heavily incentivizes players to nova damage out pushes things back in the favor of higher hitrates benefitting the player), but I was replying mostly to the suggestion that karmic dice were tanking rolls or forcing failure in conversation.

    Milski on
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  • CruorCruor Registered User regular
    edited August 2023
    Dr. Chaos wrote: »
    Cruor wrote: »
    Dr. Chaos wrote: »
    The tadpole powers are great but really highlights how much it fucking annoys me that rage isn't some sort of swift action or something you can pop before battle.

    Takes too long to get my berserker set up like I want to because everything is a bonus action.

    Multiclass into rogue, take the thief subclass at level 3, and you'll get two bonus actions per turn. Also, you will get sneak attack every time you reckless attack (make sure to set Sneak Attack to trigger automatically under your spellbook -> reactions tab)
    Hmm. Its not a bad idea but I still want ten levels of barb total.

    Barbarian Berseker has nothing going after lv10 that I need or is a big power boost so it leaves two levels open to screw around with multiclassing I guess.

    Yeah, two levels of rogue will get you sneak attack (only +1d6, but it will always trigger with Reckless Attack so long as you don't also have disadvantage on the attack) and Cunning Action, which is just more ways to use that limited bonus action. Two levels of Fighter gets you both Second Wind (will only heal 1d10+2 because it scales with Fighter level) and Action Surge. Action Surge will be a great way to just become a blender of attacks.

    Cruor on
  • ED!ED! Registered User regular
    milski wrote: »
    Fiatil wrote: »
    milski wrote: »
    Fiatil wrote: »
    Still no idea how it affects dialogue, but someone on reddit ran a test (after the hotfix change to karmic/weighted dice in 2021) showing that the part where it applies to enemies does appear to have a pretty massive difference on hit chance against high AC characters:

    i9mi8zckpxxn.png

    Yes, that was the test run that the devs explicitly responded to in the linked thread saying that it was a combination of a bug they fixed and intentionally testing an edge case (extremely high AC + tons of trash mobs attacking = worst case for a system that avoids miss streaks)

    Since it seems like I'm just re-doing digging you're already familiar with, and you're the one telling all of the other posters they're wrong:

    Could you explain it to us with some references, please? There's really not much info I'm seeing outside of that hotfix and thread, a very short tooltip in-game, and a ton of people guessing.

    Here's the link:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/comments/159ss0q/comment/jtqhot5/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=usertext&utm_name=BaldursGate3&utm_content=t1_ju15uus

    I am not sure what else I can provide, because I am effectively being asked to prove a negative here. Larian patched Karmic dice to work a certain way two years ago. There is no indication in game that they reduce player or enemy rolls. We have the game tooltip and Larian patch ones agreeing with this interpretation, and even the test here is only showing enemies overperforming expectations. It seems like the burden of proof here would be on anybody who believes that it does tank their rolls, against all official statements, and there has been zero evidence ever presented for this besides individual anecdotes.

    Yeah. . .that link is clear as mud as to how karmic dice work in practice. I don't think anyone is asking you to "prove a negative" - simply to show why what you responded to isn't the case. All I see from the actual developer response is that the situation described by the redditor was a bug, not that fundamentally the karmic dice are working differently than what media and others are saying it does.

    . . .the save file bit sure, I've seen zero conversation about that but it's certainly not impossible. At the end of the day this is on LARIAN to clear up and so far I haven't seen anyone - one way or another - demonstrate how KD are meant to work in practice.

    "Get the hell out of me" - [ex]girlfriend
  • FiatilFiatil Registered User regular
    edited August 2023
    milski wrote: »
    Fiatil wrote: »
    milski wrote: »
    Fiatil wrote: »
    Still no idea how it affects dialogue, but someone on reddit ran a test (after the hotfix change to karmic/weighted dice in 2021) showing that the part where it applies to enemies does appear to have a pretty massive difference on hit chance against high AC characters:

    i9mi8zckpxxn.png

    Yes, that was the test run that the devs explicitly responded to in the linked thread saying that it was a combination of a bug they fixed and intentionally testing an edge case (extremely high AC + tons of trash mobs attacking = worst case for a system that avoids miss streaks)

    Since it seems like I'm just re-doing digging you're already familiar with, and you're the one telling all of the other posters they're wrong:

    Could you explain it to us with some references, please? There's really not much info I'm seeing outside of that hotfix and thread, a very short tooltip in-game, and a ton of people guessing.

    Here's the link:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/comments/159ss0q/comment/jtqhot5/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=usertext&utm_name=BaldursGate3&utm_content=t1_ju15uus

    I am not sure what else I can provide, because I am effectively being asked to prove a negative here. Larian patched Karmic dice to work a certain way two years ago. There is no indication in game that they reduce player or enemy rolls. We have the game tooltip and Larian patch ones agreeing with this interpretation, and even the test here is only showing enemies overperforming expectations. It seems like the burden of proof here would be on anybody who believes that it does tank their rolls, against all official statements.

    Yeah I mean it seems like right now we're at

    1) It only increases chance of success -- it does not lower future rolls as a tradeoff.
    2) It works for Enemies as well -- they will get guaranteed better rolls against you in combat after a bad streak.
    3) ???? on if it affects dialogue or only combat -- the patch notes for the change reference only combat being changed to not increase failure chance. Does the system affect dialogue at all? Does the change only affect combat? I've seen no specific explanation or developer quote to clarify.

    if we take the developers at their words which there's no reason not to. We would need compelling evidence through testing to show that something else is happening there.

    Given that the developers have stated #2 is true, we know that it will increase the chance for enemies to hit your characters too. From that testing, it clearly affects hit chance against higher AC characters, which partially negates the utility of building a high AC character.

    But, as you pointed out, the community manager responded to that. Unfortunately, it's a very vague response and all attempts at follow up weren't answered (and it comes from a community manager filtering some response they've heard from a developer presumably):

    6dyns38sfnnl.png

    So I guess in theory the impact shouldn't be up to 4X damage against a high AC character anymore, but we have no specifics and there would theoretically still be some impact as all signs still point to enemies benefiting as well.

    Fiatil on
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  • MilskiMilski Poyo! Registered User regular
    ED! wrote: »
    milski wrote: »
    Fiatil wrote: »
    milski wrote: »
    Fiatil wrote: »
    Still no idea how it affects dialogue, but someone on reddit ran a test (after the hotfix change to karmic/weighted dice in 2021) showing that the part where it applies to enemies does appear to have a pretty massive difference on hit chance against high AC characters:

    i9mi8zckpxxn.png

    Yes, that was the test run that the devs explicitly responded to in the linked thread saying that it was a combination of a bug they fixed and intentionally testing an edge case (extremely high AC + tons of trash mobs attacking = worst case for a system that avoids miss streaks)

    Since it seems like I'm just re-doing digging you're already familiar with, and you're the one telling all of the other posters they're wrong:

    Could you explain it to us with some references, please? There's really not much info I'm seeing outside of that hotfix and thread, a very short tooltip in-game, and a ton of people guessing.

    Here's the link:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/comments/159ss0q/comment/jtqhot5/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=usertext&utm_name=BaldursGate3&utm_content=t1_ju15uus

    I am not sure what else I can provide, because I am effectively being asked to prove a negative here. Larian patched Karmic dice to work a certain way two years ago. There is no indication in game that they reduce player or enemy rolls. We have the game tooltip and Larian patch ones agreeing with this interpretation, and even the test here is only showing enemies overperforming expectations. It seems like the burden of proof here would be on anybody who believes that it does tank their rolls, against all official statements, and there has been zero evidence ever presented for this besides individual anecdotes.

    Yeah. . .that link is clear as mud as to how karmic dice work in practice. I don't think anyone is asking you to "prove a negative" - simply to show why what you responded to isn't the case. All I see from the actual developer response is that the situation described by the redditor was a bug, not that fundamentally the karmic dice are working differently than what media and others are saying it does.

    . . .the save file bit sure, I've seen zero conversation about that but it's certainly not impossible. At the end of the day this is on LARIAN to clear up and so far I haven't seen anyone - one way or another - demonstrate how KD are meant to work in practice.

    They did say how it works in the patch notes linked, though. It's not clear on the mechanism of the system, but "it doesn't lower your rolls" is very explicitly stated.

    I would not trust most sites for information on BG3 at this point, the amount of SEO optimized algorithmic slop for this game is staggering.

    I ate an engineer
  • MilskiMilski Poyo! Registered User regular
    Fiatil wrote: »
    milski wrote: »
    Fiatil wrote: »
    milski wrote: »
    Fiatil wrote: »
    Still no idea how it affects dialogue, but someone on reddit ran a test (after the hotfix change to karmic/weighted dice in 2021) showing that the part where it applies to enemies does appear to have a pretty massive difference on hit chance against high AC characters:

    i9mi8zckpxxn.png

    Yes, that was the test run that the devs explicitly responded to in the linked thread saying that it was a combination of a bug they fixed and intentionally testing an edge case (extremely high AC + tons of trash mobs attacking = worst case for a system that avoids miss streaks)

    Since it seems like I'm just re-doing digging you're already familiar with, and you're the one telling all of the other posters they're wrong:

    Could you explain it to us with some references, please? There's really not much info I'm seeing outside of that hotfix and thread, a very short tooltip in-game, and a ton of people guessing.

    Here's the link:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/comments/159ss0q/comment/jtqhot5/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=usertext&utm_name=BaldursGate3&utm_content=t1_ju15uus

    I am not sure what else I can provide, because I am effectively being asked to prove a negative here. Larian patched Karmic dice to work a certain way two years ago. There is no indication in game that they reduce player or enemy rolls. We have the game tooltip and Larian patch ones agreeing with this interpretation, and even the test here is only showing enemies overperforming expectations. It seems like the burden of proof here would be on anybody who believes that it does tank their rolls, against all official statements.

    Yeah I mean it seems like right now we're at

    1) It only increases chance of success -- it does not lower future rolls as a tradeoff.
    2) It works for Enemies as well -- they will get guaranteed better rolls against you in combat after a bad streak.
    3) ???? on if it affects dialogue or only combat -- the patch notes for the change reference only combat being changed to not increase failure chance. Does the system affect dialogue at all? Does the change only affect combat? I've seen no specific explanation or developer quote to clarify.

    if we take the developers at their words which there's no reason not to. We would need compelling evidence through testing to show that something else is happening there.

    Given that the developers have stated #2 is true, we know that it will increase the chance for enemies to hit your characters too. From that testing, it clearly affects hit chance against higher AC characters, which partially negates the utility of building a high AC character.

    But, as you pointed out, the community manager responded to that. Unfortunately, it's a very vague response and all attempts at follow up weren't answered (and it comes from a community manager filtering some response they've heard from a developer presumably):

    6dyns38sfnnl.png

    So I guess in theory the impact shouldn't be up to 4X damage against a high AC character anymore, but we have no specifics and there would theoretically still be some impact as all signs still point to enemies benefiting as well.

    Enemies will definitely benefit and it negates the already slim benefits for trying to build a saves and AC tank to some degree, yeah, but I also think the in game description noting that it applies to failure streaks in general pretty well confirms that it's being applied consistently as a positive modifier (including to enemies).

    I ate an engineer
  • Evil MultifariousEvil Multifarious Registered User regular
    edited August 2023
    Okay so, I've finished Act 2

    Act 2 end spoilers
    went eagerly into half-Illithid form, giving me access to a number of incredible powers:

    - uninhibited flight
    - free reaction counterspell against spells whose level is at or under my proficiency bonus (lol what the fuck)
    - turn into a displacer beast
    - expertise in all social skills
    - mind flayer stun beam
    - mind flayer brain devouring
    - a zone that makes full actions and bonus actions interchangeable
    - once per short rest, ignore all costs for your next action (including spell slots)

    I had to spend tadpole juice to get them, but god DAMN.

    Obviously with my now +12 to social rolls, I have convinced everyone in my party to embrace the worm. Fuckin sick.

    I'm sure I can turn into a full mind flayer later but I bet that will have even more repercussions. I will branch my save at that point, since my plan is to dominate the Absolute and probably kill the Guardian.

    Oh god quoted by accident! I hope nobody got spoiled!

    Evil Multifarious on
  • MilskiMilski Poyo! Registered User regular
    edited August 2023
    Wrong tag @Evil Multifarious

    E: Ok in the edit you forgot to close a bracket

    E2: we cool

    E3: this is like when people converse via edits after getting banned on vbulletin

    Milski on
    I ate an engineer
  • Evil MultifariousEvil Multifarious Registered User regular
    I howled in such dismay that my wife thought I accidentally posted a nude in the thread or something

  • MilskiMilski Poyo! Registered User regular
    I howled in such dismay that my wife thought I accidentally posted a nude in the thread or something

    OK but does nude rhyme with blood or flood

    I ate an engineer
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  • DrovekDrovek Registered User regular
    I'm in the middle of Act III and I'm already running out of Steam with this one. Mind you, I'm 80 hours deep into this thing.

    Kinda want to start a new game and see everything I managed to not do, but I'll rather let it cool down and remove itself from my memory for a bit. Just have to finish this before AC6 and Starfield come out.

    steam_sig.png( < . . .
  • Evil MultifariousEvil Multifarious Registered User regular
    Orca wrote: »
    If this game didn't take like 100 hours to complete I'd want to do an evil run just to see how horrible you can be

    It seems like you have two distinct evil routes that can be combined: embrace the tadpole or embrace the Dark Urge

    I assume you can do both but they kind of conflict, I think! The tadpole stuff is very lawful evil - accrue power, seek control, seek dominance, pursue your own interests - whereas the Dark Urge stuff is chaotic evil, real psycho shit

  • DonnictonDonnicton Registered User regular
    Orca wrote: »
    If this game didn't take like 100 hours to complete I'd want to do an evil run just to see how horrible you can be

    It seems like you have two distinct evil routes that can be combined: embrace the tadpole or embrace the Dark Urge

    I assume you can do both but they kind of conflict, I think! The tadpole stuff is very lawful evil - accrue power, seek control, seek dominance, pursue your own interests - whereas the Dark Urge stuff is chaotic evil, real psycho shit

    The tadpole stuff is not necessarily at odds with resolving the story though, you can very much be doing Good Guy Things but still pursue Ilithid ascension just as much as Bad Guy Things. But Dark Urge will very much murder your way through a playthrough and there will be consequences.

  • SanderJKSanderJK Crocodylus Pontifex Sinterklasicus Madrid, 3000 ADRegistered User regular
    The big difference is that in older editions enchantment and conjuration spells are nearly insta-win buttons, and evocation usually didn't scale as large. There are a large amount of effects (paralysis, stun, sleep) that set you up for instakill.
    Okay so, I've finished Act 2

    Act 2 end spoilers
    went eagerly into half-Illithid form, giving me access to a number of incredible powers:

    - uninhibited flight
    - free reaction counterspell against spells whose level is at or under my proficiency bonus (lol what the fuck)
    - turn into a displacer beast
    - expertise in all social skills
    - mind flayer stun beam
    - mind flayer brain devouring
    - a zone that makes full actions and bonus actions interchangeable
    - once per short rest, ignore all costs for your next action (including spell slots)

    I had to spend tadpole juice to get them, but god DAMN.

    Obviously with my now +12 to social rolls, I have convinced everyone in my party to embrace the worm. Fuckin sick.

    I'm sure I can turn into a full mind flayer later but I bet that will have even more repercussions. I will branch my save at that point, since my plan is to dominate the Absolute and probably kill the Guardian.

    Oh god quoted by accident! I hope nobody got spoiled!
    I am forcing nobody, in part because the game is apparently pretty easy if you go full squid, and in part because my paladin took it as a burden upon herself. So far only Asterion has openly requested it.

    Steam: SanderJK Origin: SanderJK
  • HappylilElfHappylilElf Registered User regular
    Dr. Chaos wrote: »
    The tadpole powers are great but really highlights how much it fucking annoys me that rage isn't some sort of swift action or something you can pop before battle.

    Takes too long to get my berserker set up like I want to because everything is a bonus action.

    The action economy in DnD is like a lot of things in DnD, very weird. A video game just tends to exist the friction because you can't just house rule things like you'd like to

    I remember realising that I'd been playing my artificer all wrong and my turrets were supposed to cost me an action to setup.

    Really turned out to not be an issue that I'd been skipping that, balance wise and we made up a magical item to let me keep doing it within the rules.

    I mean the nice thing about DnD is that the solution to that isn't even a magical item it's saying "Hey, DM, apparently I was supposed to be doing this and I haven't but it'll take longer and it's dumb" and the DM replying "Yeah, totes, don't worry about it"

  • jkylefultonjkylefulton Squid...or Kid? NNID - majpellRegistered User regular
    I'm still in act 1 (though I think I'm close to being finished with it) - I was supposed to slaughter that entire creche of lizard people, right?

    tOkYVT2.jpg
  • ChanceChance Registered User regular
    I'm still in act 1 (though I think I'm close to being finished with it) - I was supposed to slaughter that entire creche of lizard people, right?

    My darling, good taste demanded it.

    'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
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  • Dr. ChaosDr. Chaos Post nuclear nuisance Registered User regular
    I'm still in act 1 (though I think I'm close to being finished with it) - I was supposed to slaughter that entire creche of lizard people, right?
    I haven't gotten there yet but yeah, I imagine they make it very hard not to.

    "Stand there while I talk down to you, SAVAGE!" says the glorified astral plane cave man who just kills and steals everybody else's shit to get by.

    Pokemon GO: 7113 6338 6875/ FF14: Buckle Landrunner /Steam Profile
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