The Coin Return Foundational Fundraiser is here! Please donate!

The Water Cooler (General Discussion)

1252628303133

Posts

  • IncenjucarIncenjucar VChatter Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    Just hey, you know, <3 to you folks working on this.

  • Doctor DetroitDoctor Detroit Not a doctor Tree townRegistered User regular
    Apologies if this has been brought up...but with everything going on with Musk (especially with whatever the fuck that was yesterday), has there been any consideration to outright banning direct links/embeds to Twitter*?

    *Not gonna use the other name.

  • DibbitDibbit Registered User, Transition Team regular
    Apologies if this has been brought up...but with everything going on with Musk (especially with whatever the fuck that was yesterday), has there been any consideration to outright banning direct links/embeds to Twitter*?

    *Not gonna use the other name.

    There has, I don't think a conclusion was reached as of yet.
    And without dismissing it, it was seen of lesser importance as long as the actual forum itself wasn't running.
    Kind of like "We'll figure out what the community wants once we get further along thing"

    As an indication: The current XenForo software does embed Twitter natively, we'd have to write some kind of plugin stopping this.

  • BowenBowen Sup? Registered User regular
    just being able to disable them on a per user basis will be good enough for me honestly

    if I never have to see twitter/facebook/instagram hotlinks and dcan just see a little url I'll be good

  • LanzLanz ...Za?Registered User regular
    Apologies if this has been brought up...but with everything going on with Musk (especially with whatever the fuck that was yesterday), has there been any consideration to outright banning direct links/embeds to Twitter*?

    *Not gonna use the other name.

    I am going to once again point out what shouldn’t need to be pointed out, that just because he owns the platform does not mean there aren’t progressive and marginalized communities that still use and rely on twitter.


    I’ll also point out that for all the gains he’s made with Trump, as far as I’m aware twitter is still bleeding money because he’s a dipshit that doesn’t understand he bought an advertising platform and if you’re in the US most of your ads are still for shit like Temu and random bullshit from clients that don’t actually make big spends to make up for the costs of running it.

    waNkm4k.jpg?1
  • DouglasDouglas PennsylvaniaRegistered User regular
    "ban twitter" is very myopic and USA centric

    There are a lot of good communities and people still on there

  • DelzhandDelzhand Agrias Fucking Oaks Registered User, Transition Team regular
    Bowen wrote: »
    just being able to disable them on a per user basis will be good enough for me honestly

    if I never have to see twitter/facebook/instagram hotlinks and dcan just see a little url I'll be good

    I'll look into it! I can't promise it'll be ready by launch, but it sounds doable.

  • RatherDashingRatherDashing Registered User regular
    Douglas wrote: »
    "ban twitter" is very myopic and USA centric

    There are a lot of good communities and people still on there

    I have no opinion one way or the other on banning twitter links, but how is it USA centric to do so? Twitter is now essentially the official propaganda wing of the oligarch who bought his way into the highest position in the US. Is this any less the case elsewhere in the world?

  • DelzhandDelzhand Agrias Fucking Oaks Registered User, Transition Team regular
    Banning twitter links isn't on the table. Allowing a user to specify that they don't want automatic embeds for certain platforms might be.

  • furlionfurlion Riskbreaker Lea MondeRegistered User regular
    I think banning Twitter has the unintended consequence of increasing our own hosting fees as well. Lots of screenshots or videos that can be linked from there that we don't have to host. Although i am on team ban xitter i understand that it is an important tool for millions of marginalized groups.

    sig.gif Gamertag: KL Retribution
    PSN:Furlion
  • ToxTox I kill threads they/themRegistered User regular
    "Ban Twitter" is a large enough decision that I'd want to wait until everyone is moved over and settled first, then let the new community and its new leadership handle that question.

    Discord Lifeboat | Dilige, et quod vis fac
  • LanzLanz ...Za?Registered User regular
    Douglas wrote: »
    "ban twitter" is very myopic and USA centric

    There are a lot of good communities and people still on there

    I have no opinion one way or the other on banning twitter links, but how is it USA centric to do so? Twitter is now essentially the official propaganda wing of the oligarch who bought his way into the highest position in the US. Is this any less the case elsewhere in the world?

    Because the rest of the world still has people who aren’t abandoning twitter because of Elon Musk because he isn’t enmeshed into their lives in the nigh inescapable manner that he has made himself as in the US.

    waNkm4k.jpg?1
  • RatherDashingRatherDashing Registered User regular
    I guess my view is that he's not just enmeshed in US lives, he's enmeshed in Twitter itself, which bends completely to his will.

    I don't see any reason to ban links here, all the same.

  • XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
    I feel like anyone online enough to be part of a specific marginalized group -online- than they've probably heard of bluesky by now but maybe that's just me. fwiw, nine days ago I told all of my friends and family I'd be deleting all meta accounts in one and moving to bluesky and if they want to keep in touch here's how. Then after a week I did. I've interacted more with friends and family since I deleted meta in 9 days than I probably have in a year =p

    my 2cp, so not worth much, but communities can move and at this point probably should.

  • amateurhouramateurhour One day I'll be professionalhour The woods somewhere in TennesseeRegistered User regular
    Delzhand wrote: »
    Banning twitter links isn't on the table. Allowing a user to specify that they don't want automatic embeds for certain platforms might be.

    This is all I'd want, honestly. I just want to customize my visual experience to not see random embeds that either don't load or have stuff I'm not interested in. Just some off/on filter for a user setting would be perfect.

    are YOU on the beer list?
  • zerzhulzerzhul Registered User, Moderator mod
    Delzhand wrote: »
    Bowen wrote: »
    just being able to disable them on a per user basis will be good enough for me honestly

    if I never have to see twitter/facebook/instagram hotlinks and dcan just see a little url I'll be good

    I'll look into it! I can't promise it'll be ready by launch, but it sounds doable.

    x aside, i would absolutely love the ability to disable rich embeds as a user preference.

  • VixxVixx Valkyrie: prepared! Registered User regular
    edited January 22
    Delzhand wrote: »
    Banning twitter links isn't on the table. Allowing a user to specify that they don't want automatic embeds for certain platforms might be.

    This is all I'd want, honestly. I just want to customize my visual experience to not see random embeds that either don't load or have stuff I'm not interested in. Just some off/on filter for a user setting would be perfect.

    Even just the ability to hide it when I'm revisiting the page and having to scroll up and down either to reread something or find a post or reply to something... being able to hide those embeds would make navigating things so much easier, regardless of the content.

    Vixx on
    6cd6kllpmhb0.jpeg
  • VixxVixx Valkyrie: prepared! Registered User regular
    edited January 22
    Also, specifically regarding migration to Bluesky from Twitter:

    The issue with moving marginalised communities to new spaces is that they are inherently harder to move. Accessibility (including language) is an issue, and it's much harder to advocate for a given marginalised community when the platform you're on is not adequately populated by the people you are trying to advocate to.

    Part of this is having access to people with power. It's not like a marginalised group writers a letter to Target to get, say, Australia Day merch off their shelves (a very real and currently timely topic down here). It's that a bunch of Indigenous folks have voiced, shared, and mutually amplified their messages about why Australia Day shit is NOT GOOD... and then those who are sympathetic who have slightly more power (orginary folks like you and me) then amplify THOSE messages, on and on, where it becomes less about the detail of the message but more about how many people support it. And then Target is like oh holy shit look at all these @s and also wow this one tweet has 2.5M RTs what is going on here.

    And beyond what Target decides to do, is the visibility that this specific movement has. Even if people aren't directly interacting with the tweets in question, they are still being read. And that's what makes the numbers so important (and why I'm frequently frustrated that some platforms opted to turn those off at one stage, though many have since walked that back)... they are a very easy way for people to see which way the wind is blowing. Getting "ratio'd"... or even how we as individuals feel when some posts get Agree'd or Awesome's and others don't? Those might seem like silly superficial things but they are known to actively lead to changes in our behaviour as individuals.

    The reality is that all this potential is dampened significantly when you ask marginalised folks to just move elsewhere. There's also no guarantee that they will be able to retain the access, momentum, or membership that were crucial in their effectiveness in the old space.

    Vixx on
    6cd6kllpmhb0.jpeg
  • BowenBowen Sup? Registered User regular
    zerzhul wrote: »
    Delzhand wrote: »
    Bowen wrote: »
    just being able to disable them on a per user basis will be good enough for me honestly

    if I never have to see twitter/facebook/instagram hotlinks and dcan just see a little url I'll be good

    I'll look into it! I can't promise it'll be ready by launch, but it sounds doable.

    x aside, i would absolutely love the ability to disable rich embeds as a user preference.

    I'm okay with like... youtube, so being able to turn each one on and off would be handy.

  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    honestly with the way x/twitter have been handling access to their platform it might not be that long until they stop letting people embed tweets all on their own

    hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
    that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    anyway

    will the current forum get archived or something when we move to the new one? Granted a lot of them are pithy and stupid but I've written a bunch of words here over the course of time and it feels weird to lose access to all of them

    hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
    that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Cybertronian Paranormal Eliminator Registered User regular
    Short answer is no, aside from a possibly a "best of" archive.

    Middle answer is due to several users wanting their data deleted (partially due to the current US politics), it's debatable how much of the forum would even be left by that point.

    Long answer is a big ethical discussion you can read here:
    https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/252444/content-and-data-migration-the-social-legal-ethical-thread/p1

  • ZekZek Registered User regular
    For what it's worth, Twitter embeds don't profit the platform in any way. Making people follow the links actually would. I don't think we should disable the embed functionality, just socially try to encourage people to get their news elsewhere.

  • DibbitDibbit Registered User, Transition Team regular
    Short answer is no, aside from a possibly a "best of" archive.

    Middle answer is due to several users wanting their data deleted (partially due to the current US politics), it's debatable how much of the forum would even be left by that point.

    Long answer is a big ethical discussion you can read here:
    https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/252444/content-and-data-migration-the-social-legal-ethical-thread/p1

    To add to this:
    These are the steps that we, the CR community, are taking in regards to the forum.
    In the end, this is not our forum, and PA can do anything they want with their data after this place shuts down.

    Now, I'm not at all saying they will, as they have always been very good about these things, but it is their decision, and we have no influence over it as you basically gave away your rights to object when signing up.
    Do I think they'll sell it to open AI to train a bot army? Nope, but there are no guarantees.
    At least they've been a lot better then Reddit, who are just openly saying "Yes, we're selling access to all our posts, yes it's very lucrative, and yes, we hate it that openAI got it for free because we didn't understand what they were doing."

  • durandal4532durandal4532 Registered User regular
    I am absolutely in favor of banning Twitter embeds. Twitter has been awful for a while but it's progressed far enough beyond the pale that it distresses me anyone isn't interested in ditching it. Get off the platform, it's poison. You can't make it not poison.

    We're all in this together
  • FyreWulffFyreWulff YouRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited January 22
    thankfully since cr won't have a 5 person ignore limit, if people can't help but keep embedding twitter i'll just block them until they stop doing so

    now if more than 1000 of you keep embedding twitter i'm kinda screwed

    FyreWulff on
  • PhyphorPhyphor Building Planet Busters Tasting FruitRegistered User regular
    edited January 22
    FyreWulff wrote: »
    thankfully since cr won't have a 5 person ignore limit, if people can't help but keep embedding twitter i'll just block them until they stop doing so

    now if more than 1000 of you keep embedding twitter i'm kinda screwed

    Good news! There's barely a thousand people left that post more than like once a month

    Phyphor on
  • Hahnsoo1Hahnsoo1 Make Ready. We Hunt.Registered User, Moderator, Administrator admin
    Phyphor wrote: »
    FyreWulff wrote: »
    thankfully since cr won't have a 5 person ignore limit, if people can't help but keep embedding twitter i'll just block them until they stop doing so

    now if more than 1000 of you keep embedding twitter i'm kinda screwed

    Good news! There's barely a thousand people left that post more than like once a month

    Ignore everyone except Bizzaro Stormy

    8i1dt37buh2m.png
  • FyreWulffFyreWulff YouRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    bizarro stormy only, no bbcode, 3 stocks, final destination

  • ZekZek Registered User regular
    FyreWulff wrote: »
    thankfully since cr won't have a 5 person ignore limit, if people can't help but keep embedding twitter i'll just block them until they stop doing so

    now if more than 1000 of you keep embedding twitter i'm kinda screwed

    This seems quite extreme to me, I really don't want to see the community divided over this. A lot of reputable people who say things worth sharing do still post on Twitter, because that's where their audience is and they're just stuck in this shitty situation. Ignoring a forum poster who embeds one of those tweets because that's the source of truth for the information seems misdirected.

  • ExpendableExpendable Silly Goose Registered User regular
    I wasn't sure where else to drop this, and I recognize that even if the answer is yes (it is almost definitely no), it's a long term sort of thing and not at all immediate.

    But would it be possible to have any images hosted by the forums, or even just in the art areas, automagically glazed to fuck the AIs? Or is the tech still at a stage where we strongly encourage it despite the art areas being login-gated?

    Djiem wrote: »
    Lokiamis wrote: »
    So the servers suddenly decide to cramp up during the last six percent.
    Man, the Director will really go out of his way to be a dick to L4D players.
    Steam
  • durandal4532durandal4532 Registered User regular
    Zek wrote: »
    FyreWulff wrote: »
    thankfully since cr won't have a 5 person ignore limit, if people can't help but keep embedding twitter i'll just block them until they stop doing so

    now if more than 1000 of you keep embedding twitter i'm kinda screwed

    This seems quite extreme to me, I really don't want to see the community divided over this. A lot of reputable people who say things worth sharing do still post on Twitter, because that's where their audience is and they're just stuck in this shitty situation. Ignoring a forum poster who embeds one of those tweets because that's the source of truth for the information seems misdirected.

    It is an algorithmic social media platform run by an extremely powerful nazi whose goal is to harm the sort of people who frequent this forum. If people are distressed by the fact that audience capture has trapped their favorite person on the platform, they should stop capturing that person by removing themselves as an audience. Network effects are real, it is important to speed them up. Hell someone somewhere on Gab is saying a nice or newsworthy thing, I'm sure. I still don't want to see shit from Gab.

    I understand that people are mourning the loss of a community that they relied upon and are reluctant to give up their certainly perfectly-pruned feeds that only show the good stuff that's still there, but this is active support of some of the worst shit that's coming and I don't want to be in a place where I see it.

    We're all in this together
  • zagdrobzagdrob Registered User regular
    I think anyone posting a tweet should be required to post a (not linked) screenshot of the tweet - and maybe that's something that can happen programmatically on the initial post so people who don't want to load the tweet can turn that off entirely.

    But definitely at this point especially with the tracking people should be able to disable rich embeds of tweets.

  • HefflingHeffling No Pic EverRegistered User regular
    zagdrob wrote: »
    I think anyone posting a tweet should be required to post a (not linked) screenshot of the tweet - and maybe that's something that can happen programmatically on the initial post so people who don't want to load the tweet can turn that off entirely.

    But definitely at this point especially with the tracking people should be able to disable rich embeds of tweets.

    What's the over/under on Elon suing us because we posted a screencap of a tweet of a sausage?

  • ZibblsnrtZibblsnrt Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited January 23
    Expendable wrote: »
    I wasn't sure where else to drop this, and I recognize that even if the answer is yes (it is almost definitely no), it's a long term sort of thing and not at all immediate.

    But would it be possible to have any images hosted by the forums, or even just in the art areas, automagically glazed to fuck the AIs? Or is the tech still at a stage where we strongly encourage it despite the art areas being login-gated?

    My understanding - others please chip in if they know better - is that glazing's effectiveness has been overstated and what effectiveness exists has been largely defeated by now. Keeping the scrapers away from the images in the first place (i.e., the login gate) is probably the best approach for now.

    Zibblsnrt on
  • LanzLanz ...Za?Registered User regular
    edited January 23
    Zek wrote: »
    FyreWulff wrote: »
    thankfully since cr won't have a 5 person ignore limit, if people can't help but keep embedding twitter i'll just block them until they stop doing so

    now if more than 1000 of you keep embedding twitter i'm kinda screwed

    This seems quite extreme to me, I really don't want to see the community divided over this. A lot of reputable people who say things worth sharing do still post on Twitter, because that's where their audience is and they're just stuck in this shitty situation. Ignoring a forum poster who embeds one of those tweets because that's the source of truth for the information seems misdirected.

    It is an algorithmic social media platform run by an extremely powerful nazi whose goal is to harm the sort of people who frequent this forum. If people are distressed by the fact that audience capture has trapped their favorite person on the platform, they should stop capturing that person by removing themselves as an audience. Network effects are real, it is important to speed them up. Hell someone somewhere on Gab is saying a nice or newsworthy thing, I'm sure. I still don't want to see shit from Gab.

    I understand that people are mourning the loss of a community that they relied upon and are reluctant to give up their certainly perfectly-pruned feeds that only show the good stuff that's still there, but this is active support of some of the worst shit that's coming and I don't want to be in a place where I see it.

    As someone who is part of one of those communities he wants to harm:

    Fuck Him. I was there first.

    bh1xruqp9vim.jpeg

    Lanz on
    waNkm4k.jpg?1
  • YellowhammerYellowhammer Registered User regular
    Zek wrote: »
    FyreWulff wrote: »
    thankfully since cr won't have a 5 person ignore limit, if people can't help but keep embedding twitter i'll just block them until they stop doing so

    now if more than 1000 of you keep embedding twitter i'm kinda screwed

    This seems quite extreme to me, I really don't want to see the community divided over this. A lot of reputable people who say things worth sharing do still post on Twitter, because that's where their audience is and they're just stuck in this shitty situation. Ignoring a forum poster who embeds one of those tweets because that's the source of truth for the information seems misdirected.

    It is an algorithmic social media platform run by an extremely powerful nazi whose goal is to harm the sort of people who frequent this forum. If people are distressed by the fact that audience capture has trapped their favorite person on the platform, they should stop capturing that person by removing themselves as an audience. Network effects are real, it is important to speed them up. Hell someone somewhere on Gab is saying a nice or newsworthy thing, I'm sure. I still don't want to see shit from Gab.

    I understand that people are mourning the loss of a community that they relied upon and are reluctant to give up their certainly perfectly-pruned feeds that only show the good stuff that's still there, but this is active support of some of the worst shit that's coming and I don't want to be in a place where I see it.

    Yeah, even if he's losing money on the endeavor, I'm reminded of the quote from Citizen Kane:

    "I did lose a million dollars last year. I expect to lose a million dollars this year. I expect to lose a million dollars next year! You know, Mr. Thatcher, at the rate of a million dollars a year, I'll have to close this place in 60 years."

    If the doors to the Nazi bar closed I wouldn't lose a wink of sleep.

  • FishmanFishman Put your goddamned hand in the goddamned Box of Pain. Registered User regular
    Hey, given that we've been able to mine post history for the year over year review, is it possible to also extract collective post times for say, the last 3 years? I thought it might be useful to have context for mod coverage to know when activity occurs.

    X-Com LP Thread I, II, III, IV, V
    That's unbelievably cool. Your new name is cool guy. Let's have sex.
  • FyreWulffFyreWulff YouRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    Zek wrote: »
    FyreWulff wrote: »
    thankfully since cr won't have a 5 person ignore limit, if people can't help but keep embedding twitter i'll just block them until they stop doing so

    now if more than 1000 of you keep embedding twitter i'm kinda screwed

    This seems quite extreme to me, I really don't want to see the community divided over this. A lot of reputable people who say things worth sharing do still post on Twitter, because that's where their audience is and they're just stuck in this shitty situation. Ignoring a forum poster who embeds one of those tweets because that's the source of truth for the information seems misdirected.

    It is an algorithmic social media platform run by an extremely powerful nazi whose goal is to harm the sort of people who frequent this forum. If people are distressed by the fact that audience capture has trapped their favorite person on the platform, they should stop capturing that person by removing themselves as an audience. Network effects are real, it is important to speed them up. Hell someone somewhere on Gab is saying a nice or newsworthy thing, I'm sure. I still don't want to see shit from Gab.

    I understand that people are mourning the loss of a community that they relied upon and are reluctant to give up their certainly perfectly-pruned feeds that only show the good stuff that's still there, but this is active support of some of the worst shit that's coming and I don't want to be in a place where I see it.

    Yeah, even if he's losing money on the endeavor, I'm reminded of the quote from Citizen Kane:

    "I did lose a million dollars last year. I expect to lose a million dollars this year. I expect to lose a million dollars next year! You know, Mr. Thatcher, at the rate of a million dollars a year, I'll have to close this place in 60 years."

    If the doors to the Nazi bar closed I wouldn't lose a wink of sleep.

    Yeah. At first, it was funny to make Elon lose tons of money but at this point he's gonna be kept afloat by Trump so might as well do the only thing that will actually kill Twitter and that is break the network effect by freeing everyone from the circular social capture of it.

  • XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
    not sure if this was covered or where or if I just missed it or forgot ....

    how is the image hosting working in the new forums? same as here?

    do I need a flickr account or something similar to pull from?

Sign In or Register to comment.