Only real problem with relying on gnoblars as flankers or charge-catchers is they have to keep up with the ogres, which can suck.
I generally prefer to trot a unit of bulls out ahead of a unit of ironguts. When a charge is declared on the bulls, flee from it. The failed charge will stall, right out in front of your ironguts, who counter charge and the carnage begins.
So then, for all those who were wondering the mega-battle, it was on 3 boards, and there were 2 fundemental sides good vs evil, with about 24 ish players huddled around them.
Magic could only affect stuff on the same board but units could move to another easily, this resulted in a few across board charges, which was wierd. The points values were out the window and so were army lists it was basicly a "you can play with whatever you want as long as you have the modles" game, which ment my board was facing about 6k of britonians and about 5k of empire+wood elves vs my 1k of tomb kings, 2.5k of some one elses tomb kings 2k of orcs and gobbo's and about 1k of skaven for good measure, which ment they had about twice the points of my side.
The game was fun, my side got violated on my board, and on one other but, on the last board we massacered them and had the nemisis crown (each person was given an envolope with a special item in it which they could give to any of there heroes, so grimgor ironhide had the crown and therefore 14, strength 14 attacks). The magic phases were intresting as we decided that each persons army generates the standered 2 dispell dice the went into a boards pool so on boards were there we 5 players there was already 10 dispell dice in the pool, so magic was basicly grounded between the dispell dice and the dispell scrolls one side had 26 for there board......
There is some debate over who won, the good side had 1 board completely under there control and 1 almost toataly with the execption of a couple of war machines and a few boar riders, whilst the evil side had the nemisis crown (the reason given for this fight) and 1 board almost completly under its control........ i reckon its a draw.
They're ld 5, ws2, st2, and cant take a standard. How did they not break after round 1 of CC?
Bad rolls on my part, good rolls on his. It happens.
Battle report time.
I finally had my game against the Orcs and Goblins player in our Mighty Empires campaign.
My assumption that he was going to be running goblins was completely off base, as I ended up facing an entirely orc focused army. He ran (from memory), a chariot, a unit of boar boys, a warboss on boar, two trolls, a bunch of arrer boys, a unit of savage orc boys, a unit of black orcs, and a unit of regular old boys.
He had a level 2 shaman, so his magic was to be feared.
I got first turn, and it was mostly uneventful. All my movement magic went off putting me into good positions for flanks and charges, but he dispelled the casket (this was a recurring theme for the battle actually).
Second turn he tried to charge my ushabti with his boar boys, but failed the fear check. Using magic I managed to get my big block of 25 skeletons into a successful charge on his savage orc boys.
I managed to break them from combat, and came up and inch shy of overruning on the pursue.
I also managed to directly charge his chariot with my unit of chariots, and he failed the fear check, allowing me to overrun him. This fortunately, left me right behind his black orcs.
Third turn his orc boys charged my bowmen (who had just reformed into a fighting block in anticipation of the charge), and utterly decimated them.
They had no standard, no armor, and no champion, so the orcs just walked all over them, and by the end of the turn I was down to 12 models in that unit.
He also turned his black orcs to face my chariot (which had chased the boar chariot so far up the table it was literally cornered), and charged my ushabti with his boar boys.
The boar boys managed to take out one ushabti, but the mighty constructs swung back, hitting with all six attacks, and wounding with 5, thus putting an end to that unit.
He also rallied his savage orc boys, but was unable to charge as they'd been fleeing.
Fourth turn my scorpion finally popped, right behind his black orcs. It scattered up a few inches, and ended up directly onto their flank (score!).
I charged his savage boys with my skeleton warriors (again), and broke them due to outnumbering, (again).
This time they ran off the table entirely.
I charged the fleeing boar boy (there was only one left) with my Ushabti, and wiped it out.
Then, with no real alternative, I bit the bullet and charged his black orcs with my chariot unit.
I used my magic to get a free attack in, and whittled the unit down a little. The prince and the crew all missed, but the stupid skeleton horses caused three wounds. Fucking ninja horses.
During normal combat, I was challenged, and my tomb prince kicked the shit out of the black orc boss. It wasn't even a contest.
The scorpion held it's own and took out two black orcs.
His orc boys finally managed to destroy my bowmen, but they'd done their job so I wasn't too broken up about it.
At this point he was down to a unit of black orcs, a unit of orc boys, a unit of arrer boys, and two trolls.
Turn five came around, and I started using my magic to res the skeleton bowmen that were fighting with the orc boys, as they were the only thing protecting my casket (as well as those precious dispell dice that come with the liche).
He wasted all of his dispell dice trying to stop the ressurections, so I blew my jar but only managed to res one.
However, the casket went off this turn, and I managed to roll well against his arrer boys, which decimated them, and caused them to break.
I rolled double sixes against the troll unit, which took both of them out entirely.
Combat continued against the black orcs, and my prince really paid for himself by tearing ass through the black orcs, causing them to break, and then run directly into my skeleton warriors that had just charged the arrer boys.
His orc boys tried to charge the casket, but failed the terror check and ended up fleeing.
I pursued into fresh combat with his warboss with my chariots here, and at this point I started taking table corners with the Ushabti that had been chasing the boar boys, as well as my heirophant.
On turn six he failed his dispell roll (he only had two dice now that I'd killed his black orcs who the shaman had been with) for the casket, allowing me to get extra attacks with my chariot unit on his warboss, while both liche priests fired magic missles at the orc boys.
At the end of turn six he had a half a unit of fleeing arrer boys, and a half a unit of orc boys, while I had several standards and two corners.
I ended up getting 1814 victory points (from a 1500 point game) which counts as a massacre, giving me five points for the campaign. I ended up buying two tiles and a mine.
Round two starts next week, and I'm really hoping I roll up against the high elves player, as I've never played against them.
Nice game, Mani. I think that army list was definately the right choice against the orcs. I did have one question though, when you said:
Combat continued against the black orcs, and my prince really paid for himself by tearing ass through the black orcs, causing them to break, and then run directly into my skeleton warriors that had just charged the arrer boys.
Were the skeleton warriors in close combat whith his arrer boys when the black orcs fled through the skeletons? If thats the case, it shouldn't have elimenated the black orc unit through that "crossifre" thing, as that only works if you flee through a unit that was not engaged in close combat.
Also, about what size were his blocks of orcs? Just curious and trying to get a feel for how big his force was. I'm honestly stunned he even took arrer boys. They're a godawful way to spend points, he would have been better with just another standard unit of the ladz.
Your heirophant can't claim table quarters by himself either.
Hey everyone! I played Tomb Kings for the first time on friday and got totally wiped out at 1200 points, funny number yes, but thats all I have of Skaven at the moment. Now, I have identified a lot of my mistakes 9Poor Deployment, letting my units get congested and lot using the right units for the right job), but one thing that really got me was his chariots.
He had a unit of 4, with a magic banner that forced everything in Base to Base contact to take a Ld test or die. Basically, I had nothing which could stop them in close combat, as he always wiped out the front rank, beating my static combat res and causing the unit to auto-break.
I think the only thing which I had that could deal with them was Warpfire throwers, which got pincushioned early, and my Warlock-Engineer I used to nuke a big unit of Horsemen. I now realise that the Chariots would have been a much better target, but I have been terrified of fast cavalry after a unit of 5 marauder horsemen caused a unit of 25ish Clanrats to break in the last turn of a game.
So, any advise the numerous Tomb Kings in this thread can give me on how to destroy their Chariots?
Nice game, Mani. I think that army list was definately the right choice against the orcs. I did have one question though, when you said:
Combat continued against the black orcs, and my prince really paid for himself by tearing ass through the black orcs, causing them to break, and then run directly into my skeleton warriors that had just charged the arrer boys.
Were the skeleton warriors in close combat whith his arrer boys when the black orcs fled through the skeletons? If thats the case, it shouldn't have elimenated the black orc unit through that "crossifre" thing, as that only works if you flee through a unit that was not engaged in close combat.
I never said that the skeleton warriors were in combat with the arrer boys. They had broken from the casket before I'd gotten to charge them.
Also, about what size were his blocks of orcs? Just curious and trying to get a feel for how big his force was. I'm honestly stunned he even took arrer boys. They're a godawful way to spend points, he would have been better with just another standard unit of the ladz.
20ish savage boys, 25 orc boys, 6 or so boar boys, like 10 or 15 black orcs, 15 or so arrer boys, 2 trolls and I'm sure I'm forgetting some stuff.
Your heirophant can't claim table quarters by himself either.
Hey everyone! I played Tomb Kings for the first time on friday and got totally wiped out at 1200 points, funny number yes, but thats all I have of Skaven at the moment. Now, I have identified a lot of my mistakes 9Poor Deployment, letting my units get congested and lot using the right units for the right job), but one thing that really got me was his chariots.
He had a unit of 4, with a magic banner that forced everything in Base to Base contact to take a Ld test or die.
The standard of the cursing word only affects models in base to base contact with the standard bearer, not the unit, and it's take a wound, not die. You're skaven so I doubt you had more than one wound per model, but it's an important distinction to make.
So, any advise the numerous Tomb Kings in this thread can give me on how to destroy their Chariots?
High strength weapons can auto kill them, and if you can survive the initial charge, it shouldn't be too hard to combat res them to death.
But really, a warpfire thrower would fuck them up too.
Chariots are the TK unit that give me the most problems. If I were a full time TK player, I'd field as many as I reasonably could.
I played my friend's Bretts one day, though, and completely ass pumped draeven's chariot units with Beast Cowers. I think they got to move maybe twice during the whole game through the movement incantation.
Hey everyone! I played Tomb Kings for the first time on friday and got totally wiped out at 1200 points, funny number yes, but thats all I have of Skaven at the moment. Now, I have identified a lot of my mistakes 9Poor Deployment, letting my units get congested and lot using the right units for the right job), but one thing that really got me was his chariots.
He had a unit of 4, with a magic banner that forced everything in Base to Base contact to take a Ld test or die.
The standard of the cursing word only affects models in base to base contact with the standard bearer, not the unit, and it's take a wound, not die. You're skaven so I doubt you had more than one wound per model, but it's an important distinction to make.
So, any advise the numerous Tomb Kings in this thread can give me on how to destroy their Chariots?
High strength weapons can auto kill them, and if you can survive the initial charge, it shouldn't be too hard to combat res them to death.
But really, a warpfire thrower would fuck them up too.
Right, thanks. The Standard generally killed a couple of Clanrats, which generally pushed the balance in his favour. As for high strength stuff, thats something which my skaven currently lack. I tried to get my Warpfire THrowers clsoe enough to do some burning, but they didn't survive long.
Hey everyone! I played Tomb Kings for the first time on friday and got totally wiped out at 1200 points, funny number yes, but thats all I have of Skaven at the moment. Now, I have identified a lot of my mistakes 9Poor Deployment, letting my units get congested and lot using the right units for the right job), but one thing that really got me was his chariots.
He had a unit of 4, with a magic banner that forced everything in Base to Base contact to take a Ld test or die.
The standard of the cursing word only affects models in base to base contact with the standard bearer, not the unit, and it's take a wound, not die. You're skaven so I doubt you had more than one wound per model, but it's an important distinction to make.
So, any advise the numerous Tomb Kings in this thread can give me on how to destroy their Chariots?
High strength weapons can auto kill them, and if you can survive the initial charge, it shouldn't be too hard to combat res them to death.
But really, a warpfire thrower would fuck them up too.
Right, thanks. The Standard generally killed a couple of Clanrats, which generally pushed the balance in his favour. As for high strength stuff, thats something which my skaven currently lack. I tried to get my Warpfire THrowers clsoe enough to do some burning, but they didn't survive long.
Jezzails, warpstone cannons, rat ogres, and even a plague censer bearer would be able to deal with chariots.
I'm definitely planning on getting some PCBS and more Rat ogres. One of my main mistakes in that game was misdelploying my Rat Ogres.
I am currently trying to figure out a way of converting plastic clanrats into Jezzails, so I'll see how that goes. A Warplightening cannon a something I will laso look into as my Army grows.
I'm definitely planning on getting some PCBS and more Rat ogres. One of my main mistakes in that game was misdelploying my Rat Ogres.
I am currently trying to figure out a way of converting plastic clanrats into Jezzails, so I'll see how that goes. A Warplightening cannon a something I will laso look into as my Army grows.
I've got a couple of jezzail blisters I'm trading out in the bits thread. I'm going with the bubonic court list so I've got no use for them.
Chariots are the TK unit that give me the most problems. If I were a full time TK player, I'd field as many as I reasonably could.
I played my friend's Bretts one day, though, and completely ass pumped draeven's chariot units with Beast Cowers. I think they got to move maybe twice during the whole game through the movement incantation.
Apparently the common tournament army is like all chariots, a Casket of souls and some carrion.
Chariots are the TK unit that give me the most problems. If I were a full time TK player, I'd field as many as I reasonably could.
I played my friend's Bretts one day, though, and completely ass pumped draeven's chariot units with Beast Cowers. I think they got to move maybe twice during the whole game through the movement incantation.
Apparently the common tournament army is like all chariots, a Casket of souls and some carrion.
I can see why that would be a successful list. I'm by no means a powergamer, but this would be mega fun to run.
Apparently the common tournament army is like all chariots, a Casket of souls and some carrion.
This is why composition scores appeared in tournaments. :P
You think that stopped the powergamers? I know a GT player who runs a high elf army thats all cav. Manis right anyway, a chariot heavy TK army whould be fun to run.
Apparently the common tournament army is like all chariots, a Casket of souls and some carrion.
This is why composition scores appeared in tournaments. :P
You think that stopped the powergamers? I know a GT player who runs a high elf army thats all cav. Manis right anyway, a chariot heavy TK army whould be fun to run.
Easy to blow too.
If you're not careful an all chariot army would be pretty easy to fuck up.
Apparently the common tournament army is like all chariots, a Casket of souls and some carrion.
This is why composition scores appeared in tournaments. :P
You think that stopped the powergamers? I know a GT player who runs a high elf army thats all cav. Manis right anyway, a chariot heavy TK army would be fun to run.
Easy to blow too.
If you're not careful an all chariot army would be pretty easy to fuck up.
Yeah in the mega battle I was in the other day, a warp lightning cannon misfired and hit settra and his unit of chariots at strength 10. Whooops!
Of course ultimately Warhammer is a game. Oh you brought cannons against my chariot army? Thats cool, Ill just rush you like a mad man cackling at the top of my voice.
Because its fun.
Edit: Also im having trouble on deciding on which weapon for a TK on chariot. Spear of Antharak is nice, gives him +1st on the charge and the wounds healed might help alot (potentially bringing back a whole chariot with only a single wound healed), but the blade of mourning, which is normally pretty useless in a TK army (Doubles negative leadership modifier when you beat an enemy. In a Fear causing force) might become really useful as your chariots wont be able to outnumber in combats that often.
Word.
The game I played yesterday was my first with a new group at a local gaming shop. It's a much more chill atmosphere than games workshop. Our GW is a lot better than the ones I always hear people complaining about, but it's still got several guys who only have fun when they win.
This new place has a different vibe, as it's mostly guys in their 30s sitting around and shooting the shit while they play, and no one really seems to get too worked up over winning or losing.
Word.
The game I played yesterday was my first with a new group at a local gaming shop. It's a much more chill atmosphere than games workshop. Our GW is a lot better than the ones I always hear people complaining about, but it's still got several guys who only have fun when they win.
This new place has a different vibe, as it's mostly guys in their 30s sitting around and shooting the shit while they play, and no one really seems to get too worked up over winning or losing.
Im lucky in that my GW is pretty much guys my age who just play for fun. We have a GT player, but hes a really nice guy and whilst his army is cheesy as hell, hes not a huge douche over it. (Its also totally beatable. Either he wins massively, or makes a mistake and just gets destroyed)
Edit: Also im having trouble on deciding on which weapon for a TK on chariot. Spear of Antharak is nice, gives him +1st on the charge and the wounds healed might help alot (potentially bringing back a whole chariot with only a single wound healed), but the blade of mourning, which is normally pretty useless in a TK army (Doubles negative leadership modifier when you beat an enemy. In a Fear causing force) might become really useful as your chariots wont be able to outnumber in combats that often.
The spear is certainly cool, but I'm also a big fan of the flail of skulls. +2 strength in the first round of combat, and each unsaved wound counts as 2.
But then, I usually like my TK on foot with the Destroyer Of Eternities. That thing is amazing, and is a straight up character killer.
Edit: Also im having trouble on deciding on which weapon for a TK on chariot. Spear of Antharak is nice, gives him +1st on the charge and the wounds healed might help alot (potentially bringing back a whole chariot with only a single wound healed), but the blade of mourning, which is normally pretty useless in a TK army (Doubles negative leadership modifier when you beat an enemy. In a Fear causing force) might become really useful as your chariots wont be able to outnumber in combats that often.
The spear is certainly cool, but I'm also a big fan of the flail of skulls. +2 strength in the first round of combat, and each unsaved wound counts as 2.
But then, I usually like my TK on foot with the Destroyer Of Eternities. That thing is amazing, and is a straight up character killer.
The unsaved wound counts as two thing only applies to the model wounded, so unless your fighting ogres of something your paying 50 points for a 2 point weapon.
Edit: Stupidly expensive, considering 3 plastic chariots are £18 and a tomb king is £6, but by god if this guy isnt amazing.
Edit: Also im having trouble on deciding on which weapon for a TK on chariot. Spear of Antharak is nice, gives him +1st on the charge and the wounds healed might help alot (potentially bringing back a whole chariot with only a single wound healed), but the blade of mourning, which is normally pretty useless in a TK army (Doubles negative leadership modifier when you beat an enemy. In a Fear causing force) might become really useful as your chariots wont be able to outnumber in combats that often.
The spear is certainly cool, but I'm also a big fan of the flail of skulls. +2 strength in the first round of combat, and each unsaved wound counts as 2.
But then, I usually like my TK on foot with the Destroyer Of Eternities. That thing is amazing, and is a straight up character killer.
The unsaved wound counts as two thing only applies to the model wounded, so unless your fighting ogres of something your paying 50 points for a 2 point weapon.
Edit: Stupidly expensive, considering 3 plastic chariots are £18 and a tomb king is £6, but by god if this guy isnt amazing.
I wasn't aware of that rule with the flail. We've totally been using it wrong then.
Also, I built that model.
I'm going to end up ebaying it, as I've got a cool idea for a custom King on chariot I want to do.
Edit: Also im having trouble on deciding on which weapon for a TK on chariot. Spear of Antharak is nice, gives him +1st on the charge and the wounds healed might help alot (potentially bringing back a whole chariot with only a single wound healed), but the blade of mourning, which is normally pretty useless in a TK army (Doubles negative leadership modifier when you beat an enemy. In a Fear causing force) might become really useful as your chariots wont be able to outnumber in combats that often.
The spear is certainly cool, but I'm also a big fan of the flail of skulls. +2 strength in the first round of combat, and each unsaved wound counts as 2.
But then, I usually like my TK on foot with the Destroyer Of Eternities. That thing is amazing, and is a straight up character killer.
The unsaved wound counts as two thing only applies to the model wounded, so unless your fighting ogres of something your paying 50 points for a 2 point weapon.
Edit: Stupidly expensive, considering 3 plastic chariots are £18 and a tomb king is £6, but by god if this guy isnt amazing.
I wasn't aware of that rule with the flail. We've totally been using it wrong then.
Also, I built that model.
I'm going to end up ebaying it, as I've got a cool idea for a custom King on chariot I want to do.
Its a common mistake, but one that once you point it out is obviously wrong. I mean if the extra wounds from a weapon spilt over to other models bolt throwers and cannons would be able to kill like 15 guys a shot (30 if its an empire great cannon). Plus it makes no logical sense (You failed your armor save so your friend next to you just explodes.) Its still an ok weapon though if your going against a multi-wound model.
Also I have a Chariot based list im gona post up here
Tomb King.
Chariot
Spear Of Antharak
Chariot of fire
Armour of the ages
shield
313 points
Tomb Prince
Chariot
Golden eye of Rah-nutt
Brooch of the great desert
Flail
Shield
Light armour
201 points
Liche priest
Golden Ankhra
160 points
Liche Priest
2xdispel scroll
Casket of souls
330
3 Chariots
Musician
Standard
150 points
3 Chariots
Musician
Standard
150 points
3 Chariots
Musician
Standard
150 points
8 Heavy Horsemen
Full command
163 points
20 Skeleton Warriors
Light Armour
Shields
Full Command
War Banner
230 points
3 Carrion
72 points
3 Carrion
72 points
Tomb Scorpion
85 points
Total 2004 Points
Alternatives include dropping the Warriors, putting the Hierophant on a horse and buying more chariots, but I think ill need some sort of static CR on the table, as well as having a big ole bodyguard for my priest. I like Heavy Horsemen. People like to put them down but then there not using them right. First light horsemen suck. 14 points for fast cav who cant march. Not only is the point of fast cav to flank, but its a mobile gunline. 90% of the time my glade riders are just mobile archers, marching 18" reforming into a gunline and loosing arrows, fast cav are for shooting up vulnerable units like cannon crews and the like. Heavy horsemen are much much better, for 2 points more you get a 4+ save and strength 4 attacks. But heres the thing, Heavy horsemen ARE NOT heavy cav. There medium cavalry and pretty much the only medium cav in warhammer (Maybe horned one riders) There simply faster infantry. For the price of two basic skeletons, you get a st4 4+ armour saving unit strength two model. Yes there a little weaker than a normal skeleton unit, but there a far more potent fighting force, and more importantly, there a mobile 16 unit strength. Thats unit strength I can throw in with my chariots to be able to auto-break units.
The Tenderiser from the OK list is the same kinda thing. It does d3 wounds for every unsaved wound. If that spilled over into other models when fighting single wound models, a Tyrant could basically decimate a unit of infantry all by himself. As it stands, he can still challenge unit champions with it, and then the extra wounds caused by the d3 do at least count toward combat resolution. Its actually possible for a tyrant to cause 15 wounds, but unfortunately only 5 count for CR.
And slightly off topic but HOLY SHIT I JUST GOT A WARHAMMER AGE OF RECKONING BETA SIGNON.
Erandus on
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Der Waffle MousBlame this on the misfortune of your birth.New Yark, New Yark.Registered Userregular
edited August 2007
There's actually an army with a magic item that causes any unsaved wounds to count as two for purposes of CR, but I can't for the life of me remember who gets it.
Edit: Also im having trouble on deciding on which weapon for a TK on chariot. Spear of Antharak is nice, gives him +1st on the charge and the wounds healed might help alot (potentially bringing back a whole chariot with only a single wound healed), but the blade of mourning, which is normally pretty useless in a TK army (Doubles negative leadership modifier when you beat an enemy. In a Fear causing force) might become really useful as your chariots wont be able to outnumber in combats that often.
The spear is certainly cool, but I'm also a big fan of the flail of skulls. +2 strength in the first round of combat, and each unsaved wound counts as 2.
But then, I usually like my TK on foot with the Destroyer Of Eternities. That thing is amazing, and is a straight up character killer.
The unsaved wound counts as two thing only applies to the model wounded, so unless your fighting ogres of something your paying 50 points for a 2 point weapon.
Edit: Stupidly expensive, considering 3 plastic chariots are £18 and a tomb king is £6, but by god if this guy isnt amazing.
I wasn't aware of that rule with the flail. We've totally been using it wrong then.
Also, I built that model.
I'm going to end up ebaying it, as I've got a cool idea for a custom King on chariot I want to do.
Its a common mistake, but one that once you point it out is obviously wrong. I mean if the extra wounds from a weapon spilt over to other models bolt throwers and cannons would be able to kill like 15 guys a shot (30 if its an empire great cannon). Plus it makes no logical sense (You failed your armor save so your friend next to you just explodes.) Its still an ok weapon though if your going against a multi-wound model.
Also I have a Chariot based list im gona post up here
Tomb King.
Chariot
Spear Of Antharak
Chariot of fire
Armour of the ages
shield
313 points
Tomb Prince
Chariot
Golden eye of Rah-nutt
Brooch of the great desert
Flail
Shield
Light armour
201 points
Liche priest
Golden Ankhra
160 points
Liche Priest
2xdispel scroll
Casket of souls
330
3 Chariots
Musician
Standard
150 points
3 Chariots
Musician
Standard
150 points
3 Chariots
Musician
Standard
150 points
8 Heavy Horsemen
Full command
163 points
20 Skeleton Warriors
Light Armour
Shields
Full Command
War Banner
230 points
3 Carrion
72 points
3 Carrion
72 points
Tomb Scorpion
85 points
Total 2004 Points
Alternatives include dropping the Warriors, putting the Hierophant on a horse and buying more chariots, but I think ill need some sort of static CR on the table, as well as having a big ole bodyguard for my priest. I like Heavy Horsemen. People like to put them down but then there not using them right. First light horsemen suck. 14 points for fast cav who cant march. Not only is the point of fast cav to flank, but its a mobile gunline. 90% of the time my glade riders are just mobile archers, marching 18" reforming into a gunline and loosing arrows, fast cav are for shooting up vulnerable units like cannon crews and the like. Heavy horsemen are much much better, for 2 points more you get a 4+ save and strength 4 attacks. But heres the thing, Heavy horsemen ARE NOT heavy cav. There medium cavalry and pretty much the only medium cav in warhammer (Maybe horned one riders) There simply faster infantry. For the price of two basic skeletons, you get a st4 4+ armour saving unit strength two model. Yes there a little weaker than a normal skeleton unit, but there a far more potent fighting force, and more importantly, there a mobile 16 unit strength. Thats unit strength I can throw in with my chariots to be able to auto-break units.
I dunno, I find it hard to spend the money on a Tomb King and not give him the Destroyer Of Eternites.
3 automatic S7 hits per turn are pretty amazing, and you still get the added benefit of your chariots becoming core.
You could throw him into that unit of skeletons and make them a completely awesome killing block.
And slightly off topic but HOLY SHIT I JUST GOT A WARHAMMER AGE OF RECKONING BETA SIGNON.
What the fuck? I have a beta key and I still haven't gotten my invite.
Don't ask me. I've been playing for a couple hours now, it's pretty goddamn fun.[/QUOTE]
One of my friends (who also got a beta key at gamesday) got into the beta, and I played it a little at his house.
It's certainly not ready for release. The whole game is currently lacking a lot of the charm that warhammer has, and just feels like generic dwarfs and orcs in fantasy.
But then they've got almost a year to fix it.
Well, they're definately going out of their way to push references from WHFB into the game. I did an public quest where you coax a giant into helping you bash down a door to a dwarf stronghold, and then they come out in ranks of hammerers, thunderers, runepriests, and then a thane with a couple of shield bearers, and everyone bands up to take them down. The more kills you tag and the more items you collect/things you kill during the pre-assault steps of making the giant happy, the more influence points you gain which you can then use to buy special items.
The giant looks shockingly like the giant model. I saw people running around casting brain bursta and 'eadbutt and stuff. There was a quest to collect choppas from fallen orcs. I got flung off a rock lobba' onto the parapets of the dwarf fort to blow up some cannons and kill a runemaster. I stuffed unconcious dwarfs into barrels and threw them off the walls where they wash up on the shore of the moat, and level 1 greenskin players crack the casks open and kill them.
My goblin Squigherder Gibblet is a whole level 6 now.
The UI seems really f'd up though. Draeven is playing a chaos mortal chosen, though, and it's fine for him. Dunno what the deal is there.
Still, the action point system works pretty well, but morale is really really hard to build up. I never got over 60% or so, couldn't use the one morale skill I bought. There's a lot of potential and PVP looks like it will slip into the public quest system and general mentality of "do everything to kill all dwarfs you see" that PvE and PvP will blend together almost seamlessly.
Man, I want in on the Age of Reckoning beta so bad. It's one of the the whole 2 MMOs I'm considering playing, but the demos at GenCon have jsut made it seem like World of Warhammer and, besides the opening cinema, it was really hard to detect any of the gothic style of WHFB in the game.
Its pretty fun so far. I honestly don't know what else they can do to make you feel like it's the WHFB world aside from try to make everything look like the models we use in the game, and work in as much of the lingo as possible. I mean.. its orcs vs dwarfs in a fantasy video game setting. They try to push the visuals and dialog as much as possible, but its not like they can stick your ass in an infantry rank and make you charge another block of infantry.
I imagine that people who play Warhammer RPG feel the connection a lot better than people who just play the fantasy battles game.
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I generally prefer to trot a unit of bulls out ahead of a unit of ironguts. When a charge is declared on the bulls, flee from it. The failed charge will stall, right out in front of your ironguts, who counter charge and the carnage begins.
It sucked ass.
They're ld 5, ws2, st2, and cant take a standard. How did they not break after round 1 of CC?
Magic could only affect stuff on the same board but units could move to another easily, this resulted in a few across board charges, which was wierd. The points values were out the window and so were army lists it was basicly a "you can play with whatever you want as long as you have the modles" game, which ment my board was facing about 6k of britonians and about 5k of empire+wood elves vs my 1k of tomb kings, 2.5k of some one elses tomb kings 2k of orcs and gobbo's and about 1k of skaven for good measure, which ment they had about twice the points of my side.
The game was fun, my side got violated on my board, and on one other but, on the last board we massacered them and had the nemisis crown (each person was given an envolope with a special item in it which they could give to any of there heroes, so grimgor ironhide had the crown and therefore 14, strength 14 attacks). The magic phases were intresting as we decided that each persons army generates the standered 2 dispell dice the went into a boards pool so on boards were there we 5 players there was already 10 dispell dice in the pool, so magic was basicly grounded between the dispell dice and the dispell scrolls one side had 26 for there board......
There is some debate over who won, the good side had 1 board completely under there control and 1 almost toataly with the execption of a couple of war machines and a few boar riders, whilst the evil side had the nemisis crown (the reason given for this fight) and 1 board almost completly under its control........ i reckon its a draw.
Bad rolls on my part, good rolls on his. It happens.
Battle report time.
My assumption that he was going to be running goblins was completely off base, as I ended up facing an entirely orc focused army. He ran (from memory), a chariot, a unit of boar boys, a warboss on boar, two trolls, a bunch of arrer boys, a unit of savage orc boys, a unit of black orcs, and a unit of regular old boys.
He had a level 2 shaman, so his magic was to be feared.
I got first turn, and it was mostly uneventful. All my movement magic went off putting me into good positions for flanks and charges, but he dispelled the casket (this was a recurring theme for the battle actually).
Second turn he tried to charge my ushabti with his boar boys, but failed the fear check. Using magic I managed to get my big block of 25 skeletons into a successful charge on his savage orc boys.
I managed to break them from combat, and came up and inch shy of overruning on the pursue.
I also managed to directly charge his chariot with my unit of chariots, and he failed the fear check, allowing me to overrun him. This fortunately, left me right behind his black orcs.
Third turn his orc boys charged my bowmen (who had just reformed into a fighting block in anticipation of the charge), and utterly decimated them.
They had no standard, no armor, and no champion, so the orcs just walked all over them, and by the end of the turn I was down to 12 models in that unit.
He also turned his black orcs to face my chariot (which had chased the boar chariot so far up the table it was literally cornered), and charged my ushabti with his boar boys.
The boar boys managed to take out one ushabti, but the mighty constructs swung back, hitting with all six attacks, and wounding with 5, thus putting an end to that unit.
He also rallied his savage orc boys, but was unable to charge as they'd been fleeing.
Fourth turn my scorpion finally popped, right behind his black orcs. It scattered up a few inches, and ended up directly onto their flank (score!).
I charged his savage boys with my skeleton warriors (again), and broke them due to outnumbering, (again).
This time they ran off the table entirely.
I charged the fleeing boar boy (there was only one left) with my Ushabti, and wiped it out.
Then, with no real alternative, I bit the bullet and charged his black orcs with my chariot unit.
I used my magic to get a free attack in, and whittled the unit down a little. The prince and the crew all missed, but the stupid skeleton horses caused three wounds. Fucking ninja horses.
During normal combat, I was challenged, and my tomb prince kicked the shit out of the black orc boss. It wasn't even a contest.
The scorpion held it's own and took out two black orcs.
His orc boys finally managed to destroy my bowmen, but they'd done their job so I wasn't too broken up about it.
At this point he was down to a unit of black orcs, a unit of orc boys, a unit of arrer boys, and two trolls.
Turn five came around, and I started using my magic to res the skeleton bowmen that were fighting with the orc boys, as they were the only thing protecting my casket (as well as those precious dispell dice that come with the liche).
He wasted all of his dispell dice trying to stop the ressurections, so I blew my jar but only managed to res one.
However, the casket went off this turn, and I managed to roll well against his arrer boys, which decimated them, and caused them to break.
I rolled double sixes against the troll unit, which took both of them out entirely.
Combat continued against the black orcs, and my prince really paid for himself by tearing ass through the black orcs, causing them to break, and then run directly into my skeleton warriors that had just charged the arrer boys.
His orc boys tried to charge the casket, but failed the terror check and ended up fleeing.
I pursued into fresh combat with his warboss with my chariots here, and at this point I started taking table corners with the Ushabti that had been chasing the boar boys, as well as my heirophant.
On turn six he failed his dispell roll (he only had two dice now that I'd killed his black orcs who the shaman had been with) for the casket, allowing me to get extra attacks with my chariot unit on his warboss, while both liche priests fired magic missles at the orc boys.
At the end of turn six he had a half a unit of fleeing arrer boys, and a half a unit of orc boys, while I had several standards and two corners.
I ended up getting 1814 victory points (from a 1500 point game) which counts as a massacre, giving me five points for the campaign. I ended up buying two tiles and a mine.
Round two starts next week, and I'm really hoping I roll up against the high elves player, as I've never played against them.
The gold can then be used to add troops in excess of my points limit for battles.
Were the skeleton warriors in close combat whith his arrer boys when the black orcs fled through the skeletons? If thats the case, it shouldn't have elimenated the black orc unit through that "crossifre" thing, as that only works if you flee through a unit that was not engaged in close combat.
Also, about what size were his blocks of orcs? Just curious and trying to get a feel for how big his force was. I'm honestly stunned he even took arrer boys. They're a godawful way to spend points, he would have been better with just another standard unit of the ladz.
Your heirophant can't claim table quarters by himself either.
He had a unit of 4, with a magic banner that forced everything in Base to Base contact to take a Ld test or die. Basically, I had nothing which could stop them in close combat, as he always wiped out the front rank, beating my static combat res and causing the unit to auto-break.
I think the only thing which I had that could deal with them was Warpfire throwers, which got pincushioned early, and my Warlock-Engineer I used to nuke a big unit of Horsemen. I now realise that the Chariots would have been a much better target, but I have been terrified of fast cavalry after a unit of 5 marauder horsemen caused a unit of 25ish Clanrats to break in the last turn of a game.
So, any advise the numerous Tomb Kings in this thread can give me on how to destroy their Chariots?
20ish savage boys, 25 orc boys, 6 or so boar boys, like 10 or 15 black orcs, 15 or so arrer boys, 2 trolls and I'm sure I'm forgetting some stuff.
The casket was already off to that corner.
High strength weapons can auto kill them, and if you can survive the initial charge, it shouldn't be too hard to combat res them to death.
But really, a warpfire thrower would fuck them up too.
Because of this game I'm going to start running a minimum of 3 chariot units in my 3k game.
I played my friend's Bretts one day, though, and completely ass pumped draeven's chariot units with Beast Cowers. I think they got to move maybe twice during the whole game through the movement incantation.
Right, thanks. The Standard generally killed a couple of Clanrats, which generally pushed the balance in his favour. As for high strength stuff, thats something which my skaven currently lack. I tried to get my Warpfire THrowers clsoe enough to do some burning, but they didn't survive long.
Jezzails, warpstone cannons, rat ogres, and even a plague censer bearer would be able to deal with chariots.
I am currently trying to figure out a way of converting plastic clanrats into Jezzails, so I'll see how that goes. A Warplightening cannon a something I will laso look into as my Army grows.
I've got a couple of jezzail blisters I'm trading out in the bits thread. I'm going with the bubonic court list so I've got no use for them.
Apparently the common tournament army is like all chariots, a Casket of souls and some carrion.
I can see why that would be a successful list. I'm by no means a powergamer, but this would be mega fun to run.
This is why composition scores appeared in tournaments. :P
You think that stopped the powergamers? I know a GT player who runs a high elf army thats all cav. Manis right anyway, a chariot heavy TK army whould be fun to run.
Easy to blow too.
If you're not careful an all chariot army would be pretty easy to fuck up.
Yeah in the mega battle I was in the other day, a warp lightning cannon misfired and hit settra and his unit of chariots at strength 10. Whooops!
Of course ultimately Warhammer is a game. Oh you brought cannons against my chariot army? Thats cool, Ill just rush you like a mad man cackling at the top of my voice.
Because its fun.
Edit: Also im having trouble on deciding on which weapon for a TK on chariot. Spear of Antharak is nice, gives him +1st on the charge and the wounds healed might help alot (potentially bringing back a whole chariot with only a single wound healed), but the blade of mourning, which is normally pretty useless in a TK army (Doubles negative leadership modifier when you beat an enemy. In a Fear causing force) might become really useful as your chariots wont be able to outnumber in combats that often.
The game I played yesterday was my first with a new group at a local gaming shop. It's a much more chill atmosphere than games workshop. Our GW is a lot better than the ones I always hear people complaining about, but it's still got several guys who only have fun when they win.
This new place has a different vibe, as it's mostly guys in their 30s sitting around and shooting the shit while they play, and no one really seems to get too worked up over winning or losing.
Im lucky in that my GW is pretty much guys my age who just play for fun. We have a GT player, but hes a really nice guy and whilst his army is cheesy as hell, hes not a huge douche over it. (Its also totally beatable. Either he wins massively, or makes a mistake and just gets destroyed)
The spear is certainly cool, but I'm also a big fan of the flail of skulls. +2 strength in the first round of combat, and each unsaved wound counts as 2.
But then, I usually like my TK on foot with the Destroyer Of Eternities. That thing is amazing, and is a straight up character killer.
The unsaved wound counts as two thing only applies to the model wounded, so unless your fighting ogres of something your paying 50 points for a 2 point weapon.
Edit: Stupidly expensive, considering 3 plastic chariots are £18 and a tomb king is £6, but by god if this guy isnt amazing.
I wasn't aware of that rule with the flail. We've totally been using it wrong then.
Also, I built that model.
I'm going to end up ebaying it, as I've got a cool idea for a custom King on chariot I want to do.
Its a common mistake, but one that once you point it out is obviously wrong. I mean if the extra wounds from a weapon spilt over to other models bolt throwers and cannons would be able to kill like 15 guys a shot (30 if its an empire great cannon). Plus it makes no logical sense (You failed your armor save so your friend next to you just explodes.) Its still an ok weapon though if your going against a multi-wound model.
Also I have a Chariot based list im gona post up here
Chariot
Spear Of Antharak
Chariot of fire
Armour of the ages
shield
313 points
Tomb Prince
Chariot
Golden eye of Rah-nutt
Brooch of the great desert
Flail
Shield
Light armour
201 points
Liche priest
Golden Ankhra
160 points
Liche Priest
2xdispel scroll
Casket of souls
330
3 Chariots
Musician
Standard
150 points
3 Chariots
Musician
Standard
150 points
3 Chariots
Musician
Standard
150 points
8 Heavy Horsemen
Full command
163 points
20 Skeleton Warriors
Light Armour
Shields
Full Command
War Banner
230 points
3 Carrion
72 points
3 Carrion
72 points
Tomb Scorpion
85 points
Total 2004 Points
Alternatives include dropping the Warriors, putting the Hierophant on a horse and buying more chariots, but I think ill need some sort of static CR on the table, as well as having a big ole bodyguard for my priest. I like Heavy Horsemen. People like to put them down but then there not using them right. First light horsemen suck. 14 points for fast cav who cant march. Not only is the point of fast cav to flank, but its a mobile gunline. 90% of the time my glade riders are just mobile archers, marching 18" reforming into a gunline and loosing arrows, fast cav are for shooting up vulnerable units like cannon crews and the like. Heavy horsemen are much much better, for 2 points more you get a 4+ save and strength 4 attacks. But heres the thing, Heavy horsemen ARE NOT heavy cav. There medium cavalry and pretty much the only medium cav in warhammer (Maybe horned one riders) There simply faster infantry. For the price of two basic skeletons, you get a st4 4+ armour saving unit strength two model. Yes there a little weaker than a normal skeleton unit, but there a far more potent fighting force, and more importantly, there a mobile 16 unit strength. Thats unit strength I can throw in with my chariots to be able to auto-break units.
And slightly off topic but HOLY SHIT I JUST GOT A WARHAMMER AGE OF RECKONING BETA SIGNON.
I dunno, I find it hard to spend the money on a Tomb King and not give him the Destroyer Of Eternites.
3 automatic S7 hits per turn are pretty amazing, and you still get the added benefit of your chariots becoming core.
You could throw him into that unit of skeletons and make them a completely awesome killing block.
What the fuck? I have a beta key and I still haven't gotten my invite.
What the fuck? I have a beta key and I still haven't gotten my invite.[/QUOTE]
Don't ask me. I've been playing for a couple hours now, it's pretty goddamn fun.
Don't ask me. I've been playing for a couple hours now, it's pretty goddamn fun.[/QUOTE]
One of my friends (who also got a beta key at gamesday) got into the beta, and I played it a little at his house.
It's certainly not ready for release. The whole game is currently lacking a lot of the charm that warhammer has, and just feels like generic dwarfs and orcs in fantasy.
But then they've got almost a year to fix it.
The giant looks shockingly like the giant model. I saw people running around casting brain bursta and 'eadbutt and stuff. There was a quest to collect choppas from fallen orcs. I got flung off a rock lobba' onto the parapets of the dwarf fort to blow up some cannons and kill a runemaster. I stuffed unconcious dwarfs into barrels and threw them off the walls where they wash up on the shore of the moat, and level 1 greenskin players crack the casks open and kill them.
My goblin Squigherder Gibblet is a whole level 6 now.
The UI seems really f'd up though. Draeven is playing a chaos mortal chosen, though, and it's fine for him. Dunno what the deal is there.
Still, the action point system works pretty well, but morale is really really hard to build up. I never got over 60% or so, couldn't use the one morale skill I bought. There's a lot of potential and PVP looks like it will slip into the public quest system and general mentality of "do everything to kill all dwarfs you see" that PvE and PvP will blend together almost seamlessly.
I imagine that people who play Warhammer RPG feel the connection a lot better than people who just play the fantasy battles game.