I wouldn't bother with the cleaver, it dosn't increase his combat ability any and you can just bloodgruel for wounds.
I would personally take the bangstick over one more scroll. Its helpful for either picking off his mages or using it as dispel fodder to get your other spells off.
Its up to you if you want all three to be bull rhinox, but I just don't see the benefit outweighing the cost. Yeah, as a large target, the bull rhinox may get picked off, but it does have a 4+ save vs shooting and 5 wounds on toughness 5. The only things likely to outright kill it through shooting are siege weapons. Chances are that by the time shooting can do any significant damage to the bull rhinox, it will be mixing it up in combat after just a turn or two.
Alright, point. So I have 90 points, and no idea what to spend it on. Hrm. Gorger? Or, Bruiser < Tyrant.
Alright, ditched the bruiser, got a Tyrant w/ Brahmir's statue, Wyrdstone, Greatweapon, heavy Armour, and a Brace of Handguns. Puts me at 2,138. Right on.
Ooooor: Ditch the Handguns and the Wyrdstone, for Daemon Killer Scars, aka Terror. Unless the unit is immune to psychology, they'd be taking leadership tests at a -4 to even come near me. It's...tempting...
eh, back when he was just rolling 2 skink priest we still had to run heavy magic, cause of that damn comet.
That's so weird, because in the group I usually play with, I run more magic than almost anyone.
But this is a new game, with a new group tonight so who knows?
Alright, ditched the bruiser, got a Tyrant w/ Brahmir's statue, Wyrdstone, Greatweapon, heavy Armour, and a Brace of Handguns. Puts me at 2,138. Right on.
Ooooor: Ditch the Handguns and the Wyrdstone, for Daemon Killer Scars, aka Terror. Unless the unit is immune to psychology, they'd be taking leadership tests at a -4 to even come near me. It's...tempting...
Canna' have Brahmir Statue + Daemon Killer Scars. Both are "enchanted items" so they tyrant may only take one.
I really hate the brace of handguns, myself.. I'd rather add more gnoblar trappers. Not that you're taking any. There's almost always something you can buy that will do you more good, even tooth gnoblars are marginally more useful.
eh, back when he was just rolling 2 skink priest we still had to run heavy magic, cause of that damn comet.
That's so weird, because in the group I usually play with, I run more magic than almost anyone.
But this is a new game, with a new group tonight so who knows?
I think maybe our first experience with magic kinda soured us. That was also back when the comet of cassandora was easier to cast and had higher strength wounds, and didn't count as Remains in Play. We pretty much had to do anything we could to keep it from landing, cause it would so easily crush whatever it hit. And the douchebag had a knack for rolling it on both his skink priests.
Now that the slaan has come to town, we get to deal with a second gen slaan who adds an extra casting die to every goddamn spell he casts, +1 to the roll, and brings his diadem of power to save dispell dice for the casting phase. Usually fielded with at least one additional skink priest as well. He could come to the table with 10-12 power dice per magic phase pretty easily, so all we could do was try to answer the arms race with lots of casters of our own.
And in the middle of this, the dickhead had the balls to tell me I was making cheesy army lists by taking 3 butchers at 2k.
Well I have a 10'000 point mega battle, and I'm short 200 points after I altered a hero, basically I was hoping someone would shout something out and I would take the nearest alternative. I.e Dogs of war/ogres. Im playing wood elves atm, but I'm out of models.
Our group has a powergamer too.
After my experience with his slayer army I stopped playing him.
slayer armies aren't exactly legal I thought
and uh, for good reason
There as legal as the lists for each vampire bloodline. So not legal. At all, there a "For Fun" list.
Edit: Reroll dispel ( and seeing as all players on one team, reroll dispel for 10,000points of players) or a character that can move 18" fires 5 shots that ignore armour and is at -3 to hit in a wound (not counting range and cover). YOU MUST DECIDE!
Well I have a 10'000 point mega battle, and I'm short 200 points after I altered a hero, basically I was hoping someone would shout something out and I would take the nearest alternative. I.e Dogs of war/ogres. Im playing wood elves atm, but I'm out of models.
Uhhh... 4 Ironguts is 194 points?
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PiptheFairFrequently not in boats.Registered Userregular
Well I have a 10'000 point mega battle, and I'm short 200 points after I altered a hero, basically I was hoping someone would shout something out and I would take the nearest alternative. I.e Dogs of war/ogres. Im playing wood elves atm, but I'm out of models.
Uhhh... 4 Ironguts is 194 points?
or 3 leadbelchers with a bellower and a thunderfist is 185 and would wreak havok on massed units
God damnit.
My game got rescheduled again.
We're playing Saturday morning now.
I guess this gives me time to finish painting this unit of chariots.
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Ubikoh pete, that's later. maybe we'll be dead by thenRegistered Userregular
edited August 2007
So I was messing around in Army builder trying to give myself a goal to work towards. The backstory I kinda came up with is a relatively new Clan who just defeated some Dwarfs. They raided the Dwarven coffers and now have an abundance of wealth but not much power. The best way to rectify this is obviously to use their new gold and slaves to spread death and decay. The wealth has also attracted the attention of a Grey Seer who wants to use the rising Clan to advance his own standing. The Clan can now afford the help of an Assassin or two.
Just let me know what you think, I don't have much experience playing so I don't know if my strategies will work, but that's half the fun. And I clearly won't be playing my first game with this whole army so I'll have time to build up.
1 Grey Seer Slughorn, Bringer of the Death Toll, Tenebrous Cloak (3+ Ward Sv vs. all missles), Dispel Scroll, Warpscroll @ 670 Pts
Screaming Bell
30 Clanrats
[I firgue since the Screaming Bell can be targeted inside the unit, the Sv vs. Missles will give the Grey Seer extra staying power]
24 Clanrats, Standard, Musician @ 135 Pts
1 Chieftain Snarl Dwarfblight, Leader of Clan Karak-doom, Hvy Amror, Shield, Dwarf-Slayer (vs. Dwarves wound on 2+, -3 armor Sv regardless of Str) @ 86 Pts
29 Clanrats, Standard, Musician @ 160 Pts
1 Chieftain, Hvy Armor, BSB, Banner of the Swarm (+2 Outnumber bonus) @ 94 Pts
30 Clanrat Slaves, Slings, Musician @ 124 Pts
30 Clanrat Slaves, Spears, Musician @ 94 Pts
28 Clanrat Slaves, Slings, Musician @ 116 Pts
[I'm going to convert a bunch of Skull Pass Dwarves to mix in with the Slave units.]
1 Nokt the Hidden (Assassin), Warpstone Stars (Throw as many as A, 10" range, Str5, 1W=D3W) @ 155 Pts
[Assassin will be Hidden in one of the units of slaves.]
20 Stormvermin, * Shield, Standard, Musician, Umbranner (4+ Ward Sv vs. all missles <Str4) @ 230 Pts
Uh, why have you given your slaves weapons? They have crap BS and WS and really cannot stand up to a charge eve nwith spears. I can't remember how much slings cost, but I doubt that they would be very useful. Honestly, just take more clanrats or something.
Also: Start small, rather than go for a 2k army straight of the bat, build a 500 point army and play a few games wit it to get used to it, then expand it in 500 point blocks until you hit 2k. This gives you an oppertunity to find out how the army works, which units you like and so on. Also, I really do reccomend Rat Ogres or at least soething more killy. THe only really hard hitters in that army is the Assassin, who can die very easily as he has no save, and the Stormvermin who hit at str 4. I also think that 20 is really too small for a skaven unit.
I do think your backstory and names are awesome and very Skaven. my general is Chieftan Skar-Keek the Impatient, with his second in command, Warlock-Engineer Morteek Ikbolt
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Ubikoh pete, that's later. maybe we'll be dead by thenRegistered Userregular
edited August 2007
Alright I'll probably nix the slave weapons and see what I can do with the points. Thanks for the tips. I'm just kinda messing around right now. I am gonna start at 500 so the list can always change in the future. I was thinking maybe adding that lightning cannon, because with newfound wealth, they'd probably buy something big and shiny.
So, I'm buying at least another 500 points of Empire stuff this weekend. Maybe even an extra 1k.
Now all I've gotta do is bait another WHFB friend to buy Mighty Empires so's we can run a campaign. If I loan another friend my ~3000 point Dwarf army, we could have a neat campaign. Chaos, Empire, High Elves, Dwarfs, maybe some more.
GenCon's lack of GW minis was so, so disheartening. Only Crazy Egor's had any and that was all WHFB Magic boxes from 4th and 5th ed. and the 2nd ed. 40k starter.
So, I was violated in my game. Violated. The guy ran a pure beast herd army, Dragon Ogres, the works. He had so many guys, and were incredibly manuverable. The only thing in my arm that survived by turn 6 was my Rhinox Cav. I didn't even get to unleash the -4 leadership combo, it was that bad.
I was just completely out played. Sigh. Back to ze drawing board.
He had so many guys, and were incredibly manuverable.
This was really the root of my concern with your army in general. For a 2k game, you're fielding a very small amount of units because you have so many points tied up in the rhinox cav. Over 1/4th your army's points is spent on 1/8th of the models. You could have at least 2-3 more units of bulls/ironguts for their cost, and against hordey armies, thats really the best move. I imagine you saw most of the rest of your units outflanked very badly and generally overrun. More small ogre units helps protect against that a lot.
So there's a 10,000 point mega battle tomorrow and im taking 1000 pts of Norgoth's tombkings, have you guys got any advice for tomb king stratgies, cause i played norgoth's wood elves earlier and lost, so i think i need help.
Mani and Draeven are the resident TK players. I've only tried using Draeven's army once and while I'm not quite positive, I have a sneaking suspicion that I, in fact, sucked ass at it.
So there's a 10,000 point mega battle tomorrow and im taking 1000 pts of Norgoth's tombkings, have you guys got any advice for tomb king stratgies, cause i played norgoth's wood elves earlier and lost, so i think i need help.
You're playing as his Tomb Kings?
Protect your Heirophant. If he dies you lose.
At 1000 points you're going to be underpowered, because you're required to dump so much into your two mandatory characters. Your best bet is going to be bringing a big block of Tomb Guard, 2 smaller skeleton bowmen units (10ish), and a catapult. This is the mix I run in megabattles, and I've always done pretty well with it.
(Tomb Kings are reaaaaaaally gimped in 1k)
He had so many guys, and were incredibly manuverable.
This was really the root of my concern with your army in general. For a 2k game, you're fielding a very small amount of units because you have so many points tied up in the rhinox cav. Over 1/4th your army's points is spent on 1/8th of the models. You could have at least 2-3 more units of bulls/ironguts for their cost, and against hordey armies, thats really the best move. I imagine you saw most of the rest of your units outflanked very badly and generally overrun. More small ogre units helps protect against that a lot.
The thing is, I did so good with Skrag and the Rhinox cav against the TK/Empire player. Maybe it was just a fluke.
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Mr_Rose83 Blue Ridge Protects the HolyRegistered Userregular
He had so many guys, and were incredibly manuverable.
This was really the root of my concern with your army in general. For a 2k game, you're fielding a very small amount of units because you have so many points tied up in the rhinox cav. Over 1/4th your army's points is spent on 1/8th of the models. You could have at least 2-3 more units of bulls/ironguts for their cost, and against hordey armies, thats really the best move. I imagine you saw most of the rest of your units outflanked very badly and generally overrun. More small ogre units helps protect against that a lot.
The thing is, I did so good with Skrag and the Rhinox cav against the TK/Empire player. Maybe it was just a fluke.
Nuh-uh; Empire/TK play radically differently to BoC, as you just found out. In the rock/paper/scissors game that is warhammer, you are the rock that just rode up and charged a sheet of paper after doing so well against some Scissors. Change up your army, trade in the rhinox for a billion gnoblars and maybe a couple of hunters and you will get better results against beasts.
The main problem ive got with this tomb king force im gonna be lending is the fact that i only have 3 chariots, a block of 25 warriors without bows, 8 horsemen, a priest on foot, one on a horse and a tomb price on foot.
This leaves me pretty much no choice for an army list, so im pretty much gonna hope for other people to bring the heavy hitters and try and systematicly hold up units with the block of skele's then bring in the chariots or cav on the flanks to make sure that there gonna break.
might i suggest proxying another chariot if they allow and putting your tomb prince in that unit so it becomes a unit of 3 , great for flanking / taking out small units. Also see if they will let you turn those 25 bowmen into sword and board. least this way you have a nice tarpit. Also if your taking those horse men you might as well use them as heavy cav. Pair them up with the chariots and at least one of them will get the flank. Could be a useful combo. Since you wont have a rare / special unit other thne the chariots , kit out your priests / tomb prince for combat. 1k pts should limit the amount of magic to a minimum.
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Morskitter wrote "Spikes, choppas, tentacles, magic? Can't hold a candle to Sergeant Pimp here."
The main problem ive got with this tomb king force im gonna be lending is the fact that i only have 3 chariots, a block of 25 warriors without bows, 8 horsemen, a priest on foot, one on a horse and a tomb price on foot.
So you basically have the battalion box, a blister of liches and the tk/prince blister.
I would also then be looking to see if anyone cared if you proxied a few things.
Even without proxies, the force he has is perfectly acceptable for a mega battle.
Hell, it's not even a bad 1k list. (Although I wouldn't take the horsemen as heavy horsemen. Tomb Kings heavy horsemen are a joke. Take them as light so you can use them at range, while still keeping the ability to flank with them)
Those mega battles are so whacky that taking them seriously is an exercise in futility. Just bring what you have and try to enjoy yourself. "Losing" a mega battle is no big deal.
(Although in our last Nemesis Crown megabattle my Tomb Kings ran riot over our part of the board, with a unit of Tomb Guard (as well as a unit of chariots) that tore through a bunch of treekin, some dryads, some dwarfs, and a treeman.
Honestly, i'm trying to wrap my head around the logistics of 5 people on each side each taking their turns and casting spells and shit, and it seems like playing in a mega battle is no big deal either.
Honestly, i'm trying to wrap my head around the logistics of 5 people on each side each taking their turns and casting spells and shit, and it seems like playing in a mega battle is no big deal either.
It's a lot of fun when you have one person keeping everyone on track.
Honestly, i'm trying to wrap my head around the logistics of 5 people on each side each taking their turns and casting spells and shit, and it seems like playing in a mega battle is no big deal either.
It's a lot of fun when you have one person keeping everyone on track.
In games with more than two players, does everyone get fresh dispel dice on every players turn, or just for that round?
As in, if there are 3 players do I have to split up my dice against them to make sure nothing bad happens to me, or do I get a fresh pool when it's their turn?
We've been playing that you only get one pool per round.
so i orderd my first rhinox cav, set me back about $80 but meh. and while i was there i got a chance to chat with the manager of all of the stores in ontario, who happens to be a fantastic player, and who also happens to play ogres. now i told him about my recent loss to my brother who has treekin, and that i had no idea how to beat them. so he tells me how i can better use my gnoblars to walk along with my bulls(right beside) and when the treekin can charge they face being outnumberd and some serious ranks, but if he dosent charge then i get my bull charge and its a win win situation really.
i had never really thought about using my gnoblars in this way and i will be sure to use them in a more tactical manner. has anyone here already done this in game? i just thought ogre players might like that little tidbit.
Posts
Alright, point. So I have 90 points, and no idea what to spend it on. Hrm. Gorger? Or, Bruiser < Tyrant.
Bruiser < Tyrant
And the diadem of fucking power.
Ooooor: Ditch the Handguns and the Wyrdstone, for Daemon Killer Scars, aka Terror. Unless the unit is immune to psychology, they'd be taking leadership tests at a -4 to even come near me. It's...tempting...
That's so weird, because in the group I usually play with, I run more magic than almost anyone.
But this is a new game, with a new group tonight so who knows?
Canna' have Brahmir Statue + Daemon Killer Scars. Both are "enchanted items" so they tyrant may only take one.
I really hate the brace of handguns, myself.. I'd rather add more gnoblar trappers. Not that you're taking any. There's almost always something you can buy that will do you more good, even tooth gnoblars are marginally more useful.
I think maybe our first experience with magic kinda soured us. That was also back when the comet of cassandora was easier to cast and had higher strength wounds, and didn't count as Remains in Play. We pretty much had to do anything we could to keep it from landing, cause it would so easily crush whatever it hit. And the douchebag had a knack for rolling it on both his skink priests.
Now that the slaan has come to town, we get to deal with a second gen slaan who adds an extra casting die to every goddamn spell he casts, +1 to the roll, and brings his diadem of power to save dispell dice for the casting phase. Usually fielded with at least one additional skink priest as well. He could come to the table with 10-12 power dice per magic phase pretty easily, so all we could do was try to answer the arms race with lots of casters of our own.
And in the middle of this, the dickhead had the balls to tell me I was making cheesy army lists by taking 3 butchers at 2k.
After my experience with his slayer army I stopped playing him.
slayer armies aren't exactly legal I thought
and uh, for good reason
There as legal as the lists for each vampire bloodline. So not legal. At all, there a "For Fun" list.
Edit: Reroll dispel ( and seeing as all players on one team, reroll dispel for 10,000points of players) or a character that can move 18" fires 5 shots that ignore armour and is at -3 to hit in a wound (not counting range and cover). YOU MUST DECIDE!
Uhhh... 4 Ironguts is 194 points?
or 3 leadbelchers with a bellower and a thunderfist is 185 and would wreak havok on massed units
My game got rescheduled again.
We're playing Saturday morning now.
I guess this gives me time to finish painting this unit of chariots.
Just let me know what you think, I don't have much experience playing so I don't know if my strategies will work, but that's half the fun. And I clearly won't be playing my first game with this whole army so I'll have time to build up.
Screaming Bell
30 Clanrats
[I firgue since the Screaming Bell can be targeted inside the unit, the Sv vs. Missles will give the Grey Seer extra staying power]
24 Clanrats, Standard, Musician @ 135 Pts
1 Chieftain Snarl Dwarfblight, Leader of Clan Karak-doom, Hvy Amror, Shield, Dwarf-Slayer (vs. Dwarves wound on 2+, -3 armor Sv regardless of Str) @ 86 Pts
29 Clanrats, Standard, Musician @ 160 Pts
1 Chieftain, Hvy Armor, BSB, Banner of the Swarm (+2 Outnumber bonus) @ 94 Pts
30 Clanrat Slaves, Slings, Musician @ 124 Pts
30 Clanrat Slaves, Spears, Musician @ 94 Pts
28 Clanrat Slaves, Slings, Musician @ 116 Pts
[I'm going to convert a bunch of Skull Pass Dwarves to mix in with the Slave units.]
1 Nokt the Hidden (Assassin), Warpstone Stars (Throw as many as A, 10" range, Str5, 1W=D3W) @ 155 Pts
[Assassin will be Hidden in one of the units of slaves.]
20 Stormvermin, * Shield, Standard, Musician, Umbranner (4+ Ward Sv vs. all missles <Str4) @ 230 Pts
3 Rat Swarms @ 135 Pts
Casting Pool: 8
Dispel Pool: 4
Models in Army: 196
Total Army Cost: 1999
Also: Start small, rather than go for a 2k army straight of the bat, build a 500 point army and play a few games wit it to get used to it, then expand it in 500 point blocks until you hit 2k. This gives you an oppertunity to find out how the army works, which units you like and so on. Also, I really do reccomend Rat Ogres or at least soething more killy. THe only really hard hitters in that army is the Assassin, who can die very easily as he has no save, and the Stormvermin who hit at str 4. I also think that 20 is really too small for a skaven unit.
I do think your backstory and names are awesome and very Skaven. my general is Chieftan Skar-Keek the Impatient, with his second in command, Warlock-Engineer Morteek Ikbolt
Is this army considered to a fair/balanced/not-broken creation, or is it just some scrapped together side-project?
Now all I've gotta do is bait another WHFB friend to buy Mighty Empires so's we can run a campaign. If I loan another friend my ~3000 point Dwarf army, we could have a neat campaign. Chaos, Empire, High Elves, Dwarfs, maybe some more.
GenCon's lack of GW minis was so, so disheartening. Only Crazy Egor's had any and that was all WHFB Magic boxes from 4th and 5th ed. and the 2nd ed. 40k starter.
I was just completely out played. Sigh. Back to ze drawing board.
This was really the root of my concern with your army in general. For a 2k game, you're fielding a very small amount of units because you have so many points tied up in the rhinox cav. Over 1/4th your army's points is spent on 1/8th of the models. You could have at least 2-3 more units of bulls/ironguts for their cost, and against hordey armies, thats really the best move. I imagine you saw most of the rest of your units outflanked very badly and generally overrun. More small ogre units helps protect against that a lot.
We have a bits swap thread a little further down the index.
You're playing as his Tomb Kings?
Protect your Heirophant. If he dies you lose.
At 1000 points you're going to be underpowered, because you're required to dump so much into your two mandatory characters. Your best bet is going to be bringing a big block of Tomb Guard, 2 smaller skeleton bowmen units (10ish), and a catapult. This is the mix I run in megabattles, and I've always done pretty well with it.
(Tomb Kings are reaaaaaaally gimped in 1k)
The thing is, I did so good with Skrag and the Rhinox cav against the TK/Empire player. Maybe it was just a fluke.
Nuh-uh; Empire/TK play radically differently to BoC, as you just found out. In the rock/paper/scissors game that is warhammer, you are the rock that just rode up and charged a sheet of paper after doing so well against some Scissors. Change up your army, trade in the rhinox for a billion gnoblars and maybe a couple of hunters and you will get better results against beasts.
Nintendo Network ID: AzraelRose
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This leaves me pretty much no choice for an army list, so im pretty much gonna hope for other people to bring the heavy hitters and try and systematicly hold up units with the block of skele's then bring in the chariots or cav on the flanks to make sure that there gonna break.
So you basically have the battalion box, a blister of liches and the tk/prince blister.
I would also then be looking to see if anyone cared if you proxied a few things.
Hell, it's not even a bad 1k list. (Although I wouldn't take the horsemen as heavy horsemen. Tomb Kings heavy horsemen are a joke. Take them as light so you can use them at range, while still keeping the ability to flank with them)
Those mega battles are so whacky that taking them seriously is an exercise in futility. Just bring what you have and try to enjoy yourself. "Losing" a mega battle is no big deal.
(Although in our last Nemesis Crown megabattle my Tomb Kings ran riot over our part of the board, with a unit of Tomb Guard (as well as a unit of chariots) that tore through a bunch of treekin, some dryads, some dwarfs, and a treeman.
Honestly, i'm trying to wrap my head around the logistics of 5 people on each side each taking their turns and casting spells and shit, and it seems like playing in a mega battle is no big deal either.
It's a lot of fun when you have one person keeping everyone on track.
In games with more than two players, does everyone get fresh dispel dice on every players turn, or just for that round?
As in, if there are 3 players do I have to split up my dice against them to make sure nothing bad happens to me, or do I get a fresh pool when it's their turn?
We've been playing that you only get one pool per round.
Ayliana Moonwhisper Ecksus Cerazal
i had never really thought about using my gnoblars in this way and i will be sure to use them in a more tactical manner. has anyone here already done this in game? i just thought ogre players might like that little tidbit.
And don't underestimate gnoblars just because they're 2 points each. :P