I managed to reschedule my game against the orcs and goblins player for Thursday, and after looking through his army book, I see that the highest leadership any of his normal core units has is 7, and that even his HQs are only 8 or 9 depending.
So there's no way I'm leaving the casket at home. Gonna redo my 1500pt list a little tonight, I'll post it here once it's done.
Oh yeah, casket is a must against O&G. He's got a couple cav type units that can make it to the casket fairly quickly, but a small skeleton unit will slow them down quite well. The skulls of the enemy might actually be useful on your catapult, especially when you shoot it at goblins.
Just watch out for his fanatics. You need some small expendable fodder units that can flush them out. Might actually be a job for the skeleton cav. Cheap, can get out ahead of your slower units, and expendable.
Oh yeah, casket is a must against O&G. He's got a couple cav type units that can make it to the casket fairly quickly, but a small skeleton unit will slow them down quite well. The skulls of the enemy might actually be useful on your catapult, especially when you shoot it at goblins.
Just watch out for his fanatics. You need some small expendable fodder units that can flush them out. Might actually be a job for the skeleton cav. Cheap, can get out ahead of your slower units, and expendable.
I usually use a scorpion to force fanatics out. If they happen to bounce over it, the high toughness usually protects it, and at worst I've spent 85 points to make sure that his fanatics are released on the other side of the board where they can't do me any harm.
Fair enough. I forgot about that rule about enemies suddenly appearing less than 8 inches away from the gobbos forcing the fanatics out in random directions. If they show up early enough, that would be stellar.
Even then, the gobbos move slow enough, and the scorpion moves fast enough, that you can really fuck his plans.
I once had my scorpion pop on the second turn, right smack dab in the middle of three goblin units, each containing a fanatic. The scorpion survived, charged from the rear, and proceeded to beat one of the units into running.
It was amazing.
I've only played Vampire Counts with my Tomb Kings, and undead on undead is the stupidest game ever. I won both of them, but only because I was better at hiding my heirophant than they were their necromancers.
Well, that and the fact that their best unit (banshees) can't do anything to undead troops.
GABBO GABBO GABBO on
0
Options
Der Waffle MousBlame this on the misfortune of your birth.New Yark, New Yark.Registered Userregular
edited August 2007
oh god, I've finally found something worse than Empire/Dwarfs vs. Empire/Dwarfs.
I find myself playing Beast of Chaos tommorow, and i've not the first fucking clue as to what they can do. I realize they can ambush, and so i've got that. But I want to be able to take the appropriate ogres for ze battle. My opponent is a very shrewd, smart player, so I expect it to be a challenge. I'd like to not go in blind though.
The bright side of this is that he has to deploy first, and then I get to deploy and go first. It's a small advantage, but one I intend to exploit as well as my newbishness can let me.
I've only ever had one experience with VC's myself, and his necromancer miscast and asploded on turn one. But overall, I've never minded playing against undead cause ogres give not a shit about fear.
His magic sucks, just remember to watch out for the minotaurs, those things are fucked up.
They can easily go toe to toe with an ogre.
Yeah, whatever you do, don't let the Minotaurs charge you. If he gives them GW's, they're basically Ironguts with WS4. I suggest shooting the crap out of his Minos with LB's since they have no armor save and it'l just be 4's to wound.
Try two units of two LB's running side by side so you can stagger your shooting against them if you need to. If the shots don't either massively damage or wipe out the Minos, the leadbelchers can then bait a charge from them to set up a counter by ironguts or bulls.
His magic sucks, just remember to watch out for the minotaurs, those things are fucked up.
They can easily go toe to toe with an ogre.
Yeah, whatever you do, don't let the Minotaurs charge you. If he gives them GW's, they're basically Ironguts with WS4. I suggest shooting the crap out of his Minos with LB's since they have no armor save and it'l just be 4's to wound.
Try two units of two LB's running side by side so you can stagger your shooting against them if you need to. If the shots don't either massively damage or wipe out the Minos, the leadbelchers can then bait a charge from them to set up a counter by ironguts or bulls.
How's his leadership? I can take that magic item that makes all Skaven and Chaos take leaderships at a -3 with that unit (Braingobbler!). Also, Rhinox Cav sound like they'd do well, since all of my guys cause Terror.
The one thing the really bugs me about VC, is that they're so dependent on Fear/Terror for winning games. But it seems like most anything I play against has tons of immune to psych/fear-causing units themself.
How's his leadership? I can take that magic item that makes all Skaven and Chaos take leaderships at a -3 with that unit (Braingobbler!). Also, Rhinox Cav sound like they'd do well, since all of my guys cause Terror.
Holy hell that sounds like a retarded combo. -3 to leadership terror checks? Fuck dude, I wish I had that ability.
GABBO GABBO GABBO on
0
Options
Mr_Rose83 Blue Ridge Protects the HolyRegistered Userregular
Holy hell that sounds like a retarded combo. -3 to leadership terror checks? Fuck dude, I wish I had that ability.
Brahmir Statue+Skullmantle = -4Ld panic checks for any Skaven/Chaos unit hit by one of those lovely 3+ to cast Ogre magicks (braingobbler I think)...also if charged by a unit containing the character with both and for break checks too (I think). Pity the combo costs 55pts, so it only fits on master butchers....
How's his leadership? I can take that magic item that makes all Skaven and Chaos take leaderships at a -3 with that unit (Braingobbler!). Also, Rhinox Cav sound like they'd do well, since all of my guys cause Terror.
Holy hell that sounds like a retarded combo. -3 to leadership terror checks? Fuck dude, I wish I had that ability.
To be fair, it's only against the holder of the magic item, not his entire army. Still, with Gutmagic on a 3+ panic check, it's still very nice.
I just thought of a wicked combo actually: Give the magic item that causes terror to a tyrant, the skullmantle, and that statute, and just send him at low leadership armies. 'course, he wouldn't have much else, but still.
Oh man I totally forgot about the Brahmir Statue. Its only good against skaven and chaos, whom I never play against, so I don't think about it.
It's -3 to leadership checks forced by the bearer or any unit he accompanies. That includes fear checks, panic checks from shooting and magic, and break tests from close combat with the unit.
Unfortunately, the only way to get it combined with terror checks is to give the Brahmir Statue to a butcher and Daemon-killer Scars to a tyrant and join them both to a unit of bulls or ironguts. The Brahmir and the Daemon-killer Scars are both "Enchanted Items" so the tyrant can't carry both. The Tyrant can't carry a skullmantle, as it's an arcane item, so only butchers can take it.
Unfortunately if you give the Brahmir Statue to the butcher, he dosn't have enough points left to buy a skullmantle as well, or a bangstick, or pretty much any other decent arcane item.
I think the best combo would be to give the Brahmir statue to the tyrant, the skullmantle to the butcher, and get your braingobblers at -4 leadership. That also has the added bonus of working at range, instead of terror's 6 inches.
Oh man I totally forgot about the Brahmir Statue. Its only good against skaven and chaos, whom I never play against, so I don't think about it.
It's -3 to leadership checks forced by the bearer or any unit he accompanies. That includes fear checks, panic checks from shooting and magic, and break tests from close combat with the unit.
Unfortunately, the only way to get it combined with terror checks is to give the Brahmir Statue to a butcher and Daemon-killer Scars to a tyrant and join them both to a unit of bulls or ironguts. The Brahmir and the Daemon-killer Scars are both "Enchanted Items" so the tyrant can't carry both. The Tyrant can't carry a skullmantle, as it's an arcane item, so only butchers can take it.
Unfortunately if you give the Brahmir Statue to the butcher, he dosn't have enough points left to buy a skullmantle as well, or a bangstick, or pretty much any other decent arcane item.
I think the best combo would be to give the Brahmir statue to the tyrant, the skullmantle to the butcher, and get your braingobblers at -4 leadership. That also has the added bonus of working at range, instead of terror's 6 inches.
Theres also the massive problem that if a unit doesn't fail its terror test first time it never has to test again. Its a risky combo and if it doesn't work as expected its all gona go down.
Theres also the massive problem that if a unit doesn't fail its terror test first time it never has to test again. Its a risky combo and if it doesn't work as expected its all gona go down.
Well, any given unit actually only takes 1 terror test per battle, pass or fail. All subsequent encounters with terror causers count as fear, regardless if you passed or failed the first time.
Its a chance you take with any terror causer. Honestly though, if you have a tyrant and a butcher in a unit of ironguts, having someone fail a -4 terror test against you is just a nice perk. Chances are you'll still maul them in combat.
Theres also the massive problem that if a unit doesn't fail its terror test first time it never has to test again. Its a risky combo and if it doesn't work as expected its all gona go down.
Well, any given unit actually only takes 1 terror test per battle, pass or fail. All subsequent encounters with terror causers count as fear, regardless if you passed or failed the first time.
Its a chance you take with any terror causer. Honestly though, if you have a tyrant and a butcher in a unit of ironguts, having someone fail a -4 terror test against you is just a nice perk. Chances are you'll still maul them in combat.
I know. But chances are, when your opponent sees your butcher/tyrant in a single unit, hes going to hit it with a shaggoth/minotaur/dragon ogres, all of which cause fear and all of which are capable of killing your ogres. If they fail their terror check, there going to smash your unit and you'll get no benefit from fear.
So, lads, I'll be out back to school shopping this weekend and I happen to have a spare $100 I'm going to drop on my Empire list. The only things i have together for it right now are the mounted Captain, the 2 Wizards, 20 Handgunners and like an 18 strong spearman unit.
I'm thinking the Arch Lector, the Leadbelchers, and the Knights, but my inner gamer is screaming box of Free Company, Great Cannon, and State troops. Any suggestions?
I was re-reading through my TK army book at lunch (I like to freshen up before games), and just realized that I haven't been holding my opponents to the -1 to casting rolls when the casket is on the table.
It's my own lame-ass fault, but -1 to casting is a pretty big deal.
I know. But chances are, when your opponent sees your butcher/tyrant in a single unit, hes going to hit it with a shaggoth/minotaur/dragon ogres, all of which cause fear and all of which are capable of killing your ogres. If they fail their terror check, there going to smash your unit and you'll get no benefit from fear.
Right, which is why I'd go with the Brahmir on the Tyrant and the Skullmantle on the Butcher and pump out all the braingobblers I could.
I was re-reading through my TK army book at lunch (I like to freshen up before games), and just realized that I haven't been holding my opponents to the -1 to casting rolls when the casket is on the table.
It's my own lame-ass fault, but -1 to casting is a pretty big deal.
The one time I played with draeven's TK's i totally forgot about that too. -1 casting is most definately pretty major.
The other thing i always forget is that thing with the casket only affecting units that can draw line of sight to it, not the other way around.
So I just remembered that there's something I've been meaning to ask.
You know how the general rule for what you need to hit with a ranged weapon is 7-bs skill? (So someone with a BS 2 would need fives as 7-2=5.)
Is there a "rule of thumb" like this for normal to hit and to wound rolls?
I hate feeling dependent on that chart, and need a quick way to calculate what someone's to hit is in my head.
Right, which is why I'd go with the Brahmir on the Tyrant and the Skullmantle on the Butcher and pump out all the braingobblers I could.
This is what i'm thinking of doing. The only downside, is that it'll be a 5 man unit, which collides with my maxim of "Keep the units as small as possible." However, there's isn't any artillery, shooting isn't an issue.
Of course, I expect my opponent to take Lore of Slannesh and go magic heavy. I intend to field three butchers for some decent dispel dice, and the much needed gut magic. If I get to unleash a -4 braingobbler or two, I think i'm going to be hanging a big bullseye on the unit. Hopefully the smash stuff well enough to get out of close combat, so I can drop a few more. I'll post an army list here soon as well.
So I just remembered that there's something I've been meaning to ask.
You know how the general rule for what you need to hit with a ranged weapon is 7-bs skill? (So someone with a BS 2 would need fives as 7-2=5.)
Is there a "rule of thumb" like this for normal to hit and to wound rolls?
I hate feeling dependent on that chart, and need a quick way to calculate what someone's to hit is in my head.
equal stats is always a 4+, one above is always 3+ one below is always 5+ except for weapon skill where one below is still 4+. Apart from those it gets a little more difficult to remember, but those are the ones that come up most.
The only downside, is that it'll be a 5 man unit, which collides with my maxim of "Keep the units as small as possible." However, there's isn't any artillery, shooting isn't an issue.
I normally keep them as small as possible too, but having a 5 wide hammer unit anchoring the center of your army isn't going to kill you, and being able to throw around -4 ld Panic Checks is more than worth it. Besides, your Tyrant and Butcher always have the option of leaving or moving over to join a different unit if you need.
So I just remembered that there's something I've been meaning to ask.
You know how the general rule for what you need to hit with a ranged weapon is 7-bs skill? (So someone with a BS 2 would need fives as 7-2=5.)
Is there a "rule of thumb" like this for normal to hit and to wound rolls?
I hate feeling dependent on that chart, and need a quick way to calculate what someone's to hit is in my head.
Even weapon skill is always 4+ to hit.
If the attacker has a higher WS than the target, it's always 3+ to hit.
If the defenders WS is MORE than double the attacker's WS, you need 5+, otherwise you need 4+ if the defender's is double or less.
So WS 2 needs 4+ to hit WS 4, but needs 5+ to hit WS 5.
WS 3 needs 4+ to hit WS6, but needs 5+ to hit WS7.
Something to be aware of: Mighty Empires awards extra points to armies if you have gold. I have 140 gold, so that's 140 points extra I get, thus the higher than 2k list.
I pondered hard on leadbelchers, or some other units, but my thoughts were to get as many ogres on the board as possible. Thoughts? I have an extra 11 points to play with, but I doubt it would get me much, heh.
Also, stats on the Rhinox Cav: 7 attacks (4 @ Str 6, 3 @ Str 4), 5 wounds, 2+ armour save (3+ranged), Large Target, Causes Terror, D3 Impact hits, and some other sucky stuff, but that's the gist.
Something to be aware of: Mighty Empires awards extra points to armies if you have gold. I have 140 gold, so that's 140 points extra I get, thus the higher than 2k list.
I pondered hard on leadbelchers, or some other units, but my thoughts were to get as many ogres on the board as possible. Thoughts? I have an extra 11 points to play with, but I doubt it would get me much, heh.
Also, stats on the Rhinox Cav: 7 attacks (4 @ Str 6, 3 @ Str 4), 5 wounds, 2+ armour save (3+ranged), Large Target, Causes Terror, D3 Impact hits, and some other sucky stuff, but that's the gist.
So, yeah, thoughts?
I question why there's a bruiser generalling your army instead of a Tyrant?
Other than that I think you're in decent shape. Leadbelchers would cost too much that could be better spent on bulls and ironguts. In most lists, you need a decent core of those two units, just so you can take up enough space on the board to not get outflanked to death.
It never ceases to amaze me how much rhinox cav costs, and I can never believe they're worth it, but I keep hearing people rave about them so I keep my mouth shut. I just keep thinking of the 3 units of ironguts + standards you could buy with those points...
As for your 11 points, buy yourself a lookout gnob for the unit that will contain your general with brahmir and your butcher with skullmantle. I assume they're going with the standard carrying ironguts.
With the last 6, buy your bruiser a luck gnoblar. That will put you at 2139
Erandus on
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
0
Options
Ubikoh pete, that's later. maybe we'll be dead by thenRegistered Userregular
edited August 2007
So I'm looking into picking up some Skaven for my first army. Can anyone tell me about how they play or personal experiences with them?
I'm thinking about 1 Warlord, 40 Clanrats, and 10 Stormvermin to start with a nice core 500 pt list.
Also, since I need the core rulebook anyway, I might as well just spend the same amount of money and get Battle for Skull Pass, and use the Dwarves and Goblins to start practicing painting.
The only downside, is that it'll be a 5 man unit, which collides with my maxim of "Keep the units as small as possible." However, there's isn't any artillery, shooting isn't an issue.
I normally keep them as small as possible too, but having a 5 wide hammer unit anchoring the center of your army isn't going to kill you, and being able to throw around -4 ld Panic Checks is more than worth it. Besides, your Tyrant and Butcher always have the option of leaving or moving over to join a different unit if you need.
So I just remembered that there's something I've been meaning to ask.
You know how the general rule for what you need to hit with a ranged weapon is 7-bs skill? (So someone with a BS 2 would need fives as 7-2=5.)
Is there a "rule of thumb" like this for normal to hit and to wound rolls?
I hate feeling dependent on that chart, and need a quick way to calculate what someone's to hit is in my head.
Even weapon skill is always 4+ to hit.
If the attacker has a higher WS than the target, it's always 3+ to hit.
If the defenders WS is MORE than double the attacker's WS, you need 5+, otherwise you need 4+ if the defender's is double or less.
So WS 2 needs 4+ to hit WS 4, but needs 5+ to hit WS 5.
WS 3 needs 4+ to hit WS6, but needs 5+ to hit WS7.
Okay, that's not as easy to remember as seven minus the skill, but should help.
Thanks guys. I'd really like to get to the point where I can play an entire game without having to consult a book, so I'm doing my best to memorize all this shit.
GABBO GABBO GABBO on
0
Options
PiptheFairFrequently not in boats.Registered Userregular
So I'm looking into picking up some Skaven for my first army. Can anyone tell me about how they play or personal experiences with them?
I'm thinking about 1 Warlord, 40 Clanrats, and 10 Stormvermin to start with a nice core 500 pt list.
Also, since I need the core rulebook anyway, I might as well just spend the same amount of money and get Battle for Skull Pass, and use the Dwarves and Goblins to start practicing painting.
Your army, more than any other, will go to absolute shit as the game progresses.
Do not be afraid to go balls out with everything you have as soon as you possibly can.
PiptheFair on
0
Options
PiptheFairFrequently not in boats.Registered Userregular
The only downside, is that it'll be a 5 man unit, which collides with my maxim of "Keep the units as small as possible." However, there's isn't any artillery, shooting isn't an issue.
I normally keep them as small as possible too, but having a 5 wide hammer unit anchoring the center of your army isn't going to kill you, and being able to throw around -4 ld Panic Checks is more than worth it. Besides, your Tyrant and Butcher always have the option of leaving or moving over to join a different unit if you need.
So I just remembered that there's something I've been meaning to ask.
You know how the general rule for what you need to hit with a ranged weapon is 7-bs skill? (So someone with a BS 2 would need fives as 7-2=5.)
Is there a "rule of thumb" like this for normal to hit and to wound rolls?
I hate feeling dependent on that chart, and need a quick way to calculate what someone's to hit is in my head.
Even weapon skill is always 4+ to hit.
If the attacker has a higher WS than the target, it's always 3+ to hit.
If the defenders WS is MORE than double the attacker's WS, you need 5+, otherwise you need 4+ if the defender's is double or less.
So WS 2 needs 4+ to hit WS 4, but needs 5+ to hit WS 5.
WS 3 needs 4+ to hit WS6, but needs 5+ to hit WS7.
Okay, that's not as easy to remember as seven minus the skill, but should help.
Thanks guys. I'd really like to get to the point where I can play an entire game without having to consult a book, so I'm doing my best to memorize all this shit.
Make a quick reference chart or something you can carry in your case and just whip out and keep on the board.
The only downside, is that it'll be a 5 man unit, which collides with my maxim of "Keep the units as small as possible." However, there's isn't any artillery, shooting isn't an issue.
I normally keep them as small as possible too, but having a 5 wide hammer unit anchoring the center of your army isn't going to kill you, and being able to throw around -4 ld Panic Checks is more than worth it. Besides, your Tyrant and Butcher always have the option of leaving or moving over to join a different unit if you need.
So I just remembered that there's something I've been meaning to ask.
You know how the general rule for what you need to hit with a ranged weapon is 7-bs skill? (So someone with a BS 2 would need fives as 7-2=5.)
Is there a "rule of thumb" like this for normal to hit and to wound rolls?
I hate feeling dependent on that chart, and need a quick way to calculate what someone's to hit is in my head.
Even weapon skill is always 4+ to hit.
If the attacker has a higher WS than the target, it's always 3+ to hit.
If the defenders WS is MORE than double the attacker's WS, you need 5+, otherwise you need 4+ if the defender's is double or less.
So WS 2 needs 4+ to hit WS 4, but needs 5+ to hit WS 5.
WS 3 needs 4+ to hit WS6, but needs 5+ to hit WS7.
Okay, that's not as easy to remember as seven minus the skill, but should help.
Thanks guys. I'd really like to get to the point where I can play an entire game without having to consult a book, so I'm doing my best to memorize all this shit.
Make a quick reference chart or something you can carry in your case and just whip out and keep on the board.
But then games workshop will sue me for infringing on their intellectual properties.
Posts
It's pretty wicked looking so far.
So there's no way I'm leaving the casket at home. Gonna redo my 1500pt list a little tonight, I'll post it here once it's done.
Just watch out for his fanatics. You need some small expendable fodder units that can flush them out. Might actually be a job for the skeleton cav. Cheap, can get out ahead of your slower units, and expendable.
I usually use a scorpion to force fanatics out. If they happen to bounce over it, the high toughness usually protects it, and at worst I've spent 85 points to make sure that his fanatics are released on the other side of the board where they can't do me any harm.
I once had my scorpion pop on the second turn, right smack dab in the middle of three goblin units, each containing a fanatic. The scorpion survived, charged from the rear, and proceeded to beat one of the units into running.
It was amazing.
Except they don't seem to suck.
Liche magic, casket of souls, shooting, seige, and quasi-scouts, oh my.
Well, that and the fact that their best unit (banshees) can't do anything to undead troops.
I find myself playing Beast of Chaos tommorow, and i've not the first fucking clue as to what they can do. I realize they can ambush, and so i've got that. But I want to be able to take the appropriate ogres for ze battle. My opponent is a very shrewd, smart player, so I expect it to be a challenge. I'd like to not go in blind though.
The bright side of this is that he has to deploy first, and then I get to deploy and go first. It's a small advantage, but one I intend to exploit as well as my newbishness can let me.
They can easily go toe to toe with an ogre.
Yeah, whatever you do, don't let the Minotaurs charge you. If he gives them GW's, they're basically Ironguts with WS4. I suggest shooting the crap out of his Minos with LB's since they have no armor save and it'l just be 4's to wound.
Try two units of two LB's running side by side so you can stagger your shooting against them if you need to. If the shots don't either massively damage or wipe out the Minos, the leadbelchers can then bait a charge from them to set up a counter by ironguts or bulls.
Oh that hurts.
How's his leadership? I can take that magic item that makes all Skaven and Chaos take leaderships at a -3 with that unit (Braingobbler!). Also, Rhinox Cav sound like they'd do well, since all of my guys cause Terror.
Holy hell that sounds like a retarded combo. -3 to leadership terror checks? Fuck dude, I wish I had that ability.
Nintendo Network ID: AzraelRose
DropBox invite link - get 500MB extra free.
To be fair, it's only against the holder of the magic item, not his entire army. Still, with Gutmagic on a 3+ panic check, it's still very nice.
I just thought of a wicked combo actually: Give the magic item that causes terror to a tyrant, the skullmantle, and that statute, and just send him at low leadership armies. 'course, he wouldn't have much else, but still.
It's -3 to leadership checks forced by the bearer or any unit he accompanies. That includes fear checks, panic checks from shooting and magic, and break tests from close combat with the unit.
Unfortunately, the only way to get it combined with terror checks is to give the Brahmir Statue to a butcher and Daemon-killer Scars to a tyrant and join them both to a unit of bulls or ironguts. The Brahmir and the Daemon-killer Scars are both "Enchanted Items" so the tyrant can't carry both. The Tyrant can't carry a skullmantle, as it's an arcane item, so only butchers can take it.
Unfortunately if you give the Brahmir Statue to the butcher, he dosn't have enough points left to buy a skullmantle as well, or a bangstick, or pretty much any other decent arcane item.
I think the best combo would be to give the Brahmir statue to the tyrant, the skullmantle to the butcher, and get your braingobblers at -4 leadership. That also has the added bonus of working at range, instead of terror's 6 inches.
Theres also the massive problem that if a unit doesn't fail its terror test first time it never has to test again. Its a risky combo and if it doesn't work as expected its all gona go down.
Well, any given unit actually only takes 1 terror test per battle, pass or fail. All subsequent encounters with terror causers count as fear, regardless if you passed or failed the first time.
Its a chance you take with any terror causer. Honestly though, if you have a tyrant and a butcher in a unit of ironguts, having someone fail a -4 terror test against you is just a nice perk. Chances are you'll still maul them in combat.
I know. But chances are, when your opponent sees your butcher/tyrant in a single unit, hes going to hit it with a shaggoth/minotaur/dragon ogres, all of which cause fear and all of which are capable of killing your ogres. If they fail their terror check, there going to smash your unit and you'll get no benefit from fear.
I'm thinking the Arch Lector, the Leadbelchers, and the Knights, but my inner gamer is screaming box of Free Company, Great Cannon, and State troops. Any suggestions?
It's my own lame-ass fault, but -1 to casting is a pretty big deal.
Right, which is why I'd go with the Brahmir on the Tyrant and the Skullmantle on the Butcher and pump out all the braingobblers I could.
The one time I played with draeven's TK's i totally forgot about that too. -1 casting is most definately pretty major.
The other thing i always forget is that thing with the casket only affecting units that can draw line of sight to it, not the other way around.
It's why I always try to place it on a hill.
Nothing like making your opponent take wounds on every single unit starting on the first turn.
You know how the general rule for what you need to hit with a ranged weapon is 7-bs skill? (So someone with a BS 2 would need fives as 7-2=5.)
Is there a "rule of thumb" like this for normal to hit and to wound rolls?
I hate feeling dependent on that chart, and need a quick way to calculate what someone's to hit is in my head.
This is what i'm thinking of doing. The only downside, is that it'll be a 5 man unit, which collides with my maxim of "Keep the units as small as possible." However, there's isn't any artillery, shooting isn't an issue.
Of course, I expect my opponent to take Lore of Slannesh and go magic heavy. I intend to field three butchers for some decent dispel dice, and the much needed gut magic. If I get to unleash a -4 braingobbler or two, I think i'm going to be hanging a big bullseye on the unit. Hopefully the smash stuff well enough to get out of close combat, so I can drop a few more. I'll post an army list here soon as well.
equal stats is always a 4+, one above is always 3+ one below is always 5+ except for weapon skill where one below is still 4+. Apart from those it gets a little more difficult to remember, but those are the ones that come up most.
I normally keep them as small as possible too, but having a 5 wide hammer unit anchoring the center of your army isn't going to kill you, and being able to throw around -4 ld Panic Checks is more than worth it. Besides, your Tyrant and Butcher always have the option of leaving or moving over to join a different unit if you need.
Even weapon skill is always 4+ to hit.
If the attacker has a higher WS than the target, it's always 3+ to hit.
If the defenders WS is MORE than double the attacker's WS, you need 5+, otherwise you need 4+ if the defender's is double or less.
So WS 2 needs 4+ to hit WS 4, but needs 5+ to hit WS 5.
WS 3 needs 4+ to hit WS6, but needs 5+ to hit WS7.
w/ Thunderfist, Heavy ArmourStandard Bearer, War Banner, Iron Fists, Bellower, 3x Bull Rhinox. = 533
1x Bruiser
w/ Brhamir Statue, wyrdstone, Great Weapon = 190
3x Butchers
1#: Skullmantle, Dispel Scroll, 2#: Dispel Scroll, Bangstick, 3#: Dispel Scroll, Dispel Scroll = 570
2x Gorgers =150
3x Bulls =126
w/ extra hand weapons
3x Bulls=126
w/ extra hand weapons
3x Bulls=126
w/ extra hand weapons
3x Iron Guts=144
3x Iron Guts=164
w/ Standard Bearer
Grand Total=2,129
Something to be aware of: Mighty Empires awards extra points to armies if you have gold. I have 140 gold, so that's 140 points extra I get, thus the higher than 2k list.
I pondered hard on leadbelchers, or some other units, but my thoughts were to get as many ogres on the board as possible. Thoughts? I have an extra 11 points to play with, but I doubt it would get me much, heh.
Also, stats on the Rhinox Cav: 7 attacks (4 @ Str 6, 3 @ Str 4), 5 wounds, 2+ armour save (3+ranged), Large Target, Causes Terror, D3 Impact hits, and some other sucky stuff, but that's the gist.
So, yeah, thoughts?
I question why there's a bruiser generalling your army instead of a Tyrant?
Other than that I think you're in decent shape. Leadbelchers would cost too much that could be better spent on bulls and ironguts. In most lists, you need a decent core of those two units, just so you can take up enough space on the board to not get outflanked to death.
It never ceases to amaze me how much rhinox cav costs, and I can never believe they're worth it, but I keep hearing people rave about them so I keep my mouth shut. I just keep thinking of the 3 units of ironguts + standards you could buy with those points...
As for your 11 points, buy yourself a lookout gnob for the unit that will contain your general with brahmir and your butcher with skullmantle. I assume they're going with the standard carrying ironguts.
With the last 6, buy your bruiser a luck gnoblar. That will put you at 2139
I'm thinking about 1 Warlord, 40 Clanrats, and 10 Stormvermin to start with a nice core 500 pt list.
Also, since I need the core rulebook anyway, I might as well just spend the same amount of money and get Battle for Skull Pass, and use the Dwarves and Goblins to start practicing painting.
Okay, that's not as easy to remember as seven minus the skill, but should help.
Thanks guys. I'd really like to get to the point where I can play an entire game without having to consult a book, so I'm doing my best to memorize all this shit.
Your army, more than any other, will go to absolute shit as the game progresses.
Do not be afraid to go balls out with everything you have as soon as you possibly can.
Make a quick reference chart or something you can carry in your case and just whip out and keep on the board.
But then games workshop will sue me for infringing on their intellectual properties.