The Batthread

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  • AntibodiesAntibodies Used to live in a psychic city. Never knew what would happen in a day. Chicago, ILRegistered User regular
    edited July 2005
    Artheleron wrote:
    Hardtarget wrote:
    Servo wrote:
    So uh the Frank Miller/Jim Lee Batman book starts next week.


    Anyone interested?


    Servo is!




    Interviewesque

    WHAT?! Oh God. I just... I just came everywhere.

    oh.. oh my god. that iterview.. glorious.

    i'm going to buy EVERY issue of this new comic.

    Well, looks like I'll be buying a monthly comic on a regular basis again.. o_o

    Oh no you won't because it's a bimonthly release a la Desolation Jones. Why must all the good shit in the world come in two month intervals?

    Antibodies on
    XBL: thetinwoodsman
  • lostwordslostwords Registered User regular
    edited July 2005
    Perdurabo wrote:
    I've recently got into reading Batman, and I'm trying my best to just read the comics as stand-alones as best as I can. So far I've read Year One, The Killing Joke and the Dark Knight Returns.

    I mention this because I was really interested in the relationship between Batman and the Joker, especially after the great dialogue between the two about it being like a mutual suicide. Anyway, I was just wondering whether anyone had any suggestions of particular comics I should try to find which relate to these two, and show how it reaches the levels of The Killing Joke.

    Thanks.

    For even more joker goodness, you can't go wrong with picking up the No-Man's Land storyline, where an earthquake leave Gotham in shambles. Five tpbs are out, i think, and while the writing is uneven at times, the Joker parts are awesome, especially when [spoiler:8b264f7480] joker makes gordon's wife choose between saving a baby and sacrificing her life or keeping her gun trained on the joker. Of course, she saves the baby, and gets killed in the process. Then, when he's captured, gordon is so mad he shoots joker in the kneecap. Totally badass. I mean, the joker crippled his daughter and killed his wife, what do you expect? [/spoiler:8b264f7480] plus, its the first appearance of the new batgirl and all, who i kinda like in a guilty way...

    lostwords on
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  • AzraelAzrael Registered User regular
    edited July 2005
    Perdurabo wrote:
    I've recently got into reading Batman, and I'm trying my best to just read the comics as stand-alones as best as I can. So far I've read Year One, The Killing Joke and the Dark Knight Returns.

    I mention this because I was really interested in the relationship between Batman and the Joker, especially after the great dialogue between the two about it being like a mutual suicide. Anyway, I was just wondering whether anyone had any suggestions of particular comics I should try to find which relate to these two, and show how it reaches the levels of The Killing Joke.

    Thanks.

    For even more joker goodness, you can't go wrong with picking up the No-Man's Land storyline, where an earthquake leave Gotham in shambles. Five tpbs are out, i think, and while the writing is uneven at times, the Joker parts are awesome, especially when [spoiler:4e621f275f] joker makes gordon's wife choose between saving a baby and sacrificing her life or keeping her gun trained on the joker. Of course, she saves the baby, and gets killed in the process. Then, when he's captured, gordon is so mad he shoots joker in the kneecap. Totally badass. I mean, the joker crippled his daughter and killed his wife, what do you expect? [/spoiler:4e621f275f] plus, its the first appearance of the new batgirl and all, who i kinda like in a guilty way...

    Two Face was awesome in there too, but you can probably skip volume 2, easily the worst and alot of it get contradicted by better stuff later. Some terrible art too.

    Joker and his minions had a great bit too. From having one of them stand in different places to get better TV reception off his braces to this bit:

    Joker:And if the Bat wont come to us, then what should we do?
    Stooge:Eh, we...we should go to him?
    Joker:*long pause, fixed grin*
    Joker:*same fixed grin* you think you should be giving the orders now?
    Stooge: No no! I was just...
    *stooge dies from circular saw thrown into his skull*

    The novelisation is awesome too, it details stuff like Harley Quinn's origin, and have even more hilarious Joker bits, like when the quake hit he just stayed in Arkham even though he could leave, building a 'bastardised version of Michelangelo's David, only more anatomically correct'.

    Azrael on
  • see317see317 Registered User regular
    edited July 2005
    Perdurabo wrote:
    I've recently got into reading Batman, and I'm trying my best to just read the comics as stand-alones as best as I can. So far I've read Year One, The Killing Joke and the Dark Knight Returns.

    I mention this because I was really interested in the relationship between Batman and the Joker, especially after the great dialogue between the two about it being like a mutual suicide. Anyway, I was just wondering whether anyone had any suggestions of particular comics I should try to find which relate to these two, and show how it reaches the levels of The Killing Joke.

    Thanks.

    For even more joker goodness, you can't go wrong with picking up the No-Man's Land storyline, where an earthquake leave Gotham in shambles. Five tpbs are out, i think, and while the writing is uneven at times, the Joker parts are awesome, especially when [spoiler:60216da106] joker makes gordon's wife choose between saving a baby and sacrificing her life or keeping her gun trained on the joker. Of course, she saves the baby, and gets killed in the process. Then, when he's captured, gordon is so mad he shoots joker in the kneecap. Totally badass. I mean, the joker crippled his daughter and killed his wife, what do you expect? [/spoiler:60216da106] plus, its the first appearance of the new batgirl and all, who i kinda like in a guilty way...
    [spoiler:60216da106]I'd expect Gordon to snap and kill the rat bastard with his bare hands while the joker was still in cuffs. I probably would have in his place.

    Maybe letting the joker live as a cripple was crueler though, hard to say.[/spoiler:60216da106]

    see317 on
    Ringo wrote: »
    Well except what see317 said. That guy's always wrong.
  • lostwordslostwords Registered User regular
    edited July 2005
    see317 wrote:
    Perdurabo wrote:
    I've recently got into reading Batman, and I'm trying my best to just read the comics as stand-alones as best as I can. So far I've read Year One, The Killing Joke and the Dark Knight Returns.

    I mention this because I was really interested in the relationship between Batman and the Joker, especially after the great dialogue between the two about it being like a mutual suicide. Anyway, I was just wondering whether anyone had any suggestions of particular comics I should try to find which relate to these two, and show how it reaches the levels of The Killing Joke.

    Thanks.

    For even more joker goodness, you can't go wrong with picking up the No-Man's Land storyline, where an earthquake leave Gotham in shambles. Five tpbs are out, i think, and while the writing is uneven at times, the Joker parts are awesome, especially when [spoiler:d9bc7ab13e] joker makes gordon's wife choose between saving a baby and sacrificing her life or keeping her gun trained on the joker. Of course, she saves the baby, and gets killed in the process. Then, when he's captured, gordon is so mad he shoots joker in the kneecap. Totally badass. I mean, the joker crippled his daughter and killed his wife, what do you expect? [/spoiler:d9bc7ab13e] plus, its the first appearance of the new batgirl and all, who i kinda like in a guilty way...
    [spoiler:d9bc7ab13e]I'd expect Gordon to snap and kill the rat bastard with his bare hands while the joker was still in cuffs. I probably would have in his place.

    Maybe letting the joker live as a cripple was crueler though, hard to say.[/spoiler:d9bc7ab13e]

    [spoiler:d9bc7ab13e] Well, Gordon was all about killing him, till Batman stopped him. [/spoiler:d9bc7ab13e] Sometimes, Batman's "no killing" deal is the silliest and stupidest thing, especially with a whackjob like Joker, as Jason Todd mentions in the recent storyline, but then I realize its what makes him so unique and heroic... Yet again, another example of why the batbooks are so effective from an idea standpoint and can stand the test of time.

    lostwords on
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  • KnobKnob TURN THE BEAT BACK InternetModerator mod
    edited July 2005
    Alright.

    Frank Miller needs to stay the hell away from Batman.

    Knob on
  • DMACDMAC Moderator mod
    edited July 2005
    Pick up All Star B&R #1?

    DMAC on
  • KnobKnob TURN THE BEAT BACK InternetModerator mod
    edited July 2005
    Yep.

    Knob on
  • akajaybayakajaybay Registered User regular
    edited July 2005
    It's on my list of things to get from the shop either tonight or tommorow.
    Maybe a good skimming is in order first....

    akajaybay on
  • DMACDMAC Moderator mod
    edited July 2005
    I'm sure I'll buy it after work anyway, but anything in particular (sans spoilers) you didn't like?

    DMAC on
  • KnobKnob TURN THE BEAT BACK InternetModerator mod
    edited July 2005
    Vicki Vale as a vapid tart straight out of a Def Leppard video, Batman makes some very, very, very strange decisions, and...well, I'll just wait until more people have read it before really getting into it.

    Maybe other folks will think it's rad, and that's fine. I just thought it was bizarre.

    Knob on
  • HardtargetHardtarget There Are Four Lights VancouverRegistered User regular
    edited July 2005
    i'm picking it up in about.. 10 minutes.. should be interesting.

    Hardtarget on
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  • Romero ZombieRomero Zombie Registered User regular
    edited July 2005
    I picked it up and rather enjoyed it. Vicki Vale piece was a little unecessary, but overall I dug it.

    Romero Zombie on
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  • HardtargetHardtarget There Are Four Lights VancouverRegistered User regular
    edited July 2005
    i quite liked it. vicki vale was good but what was pretty unecessarry and almost down right out of place, was the only in bra and panties aspect of it.

    unfortunately it's a set up issue so not a TON happened

    [spoiler:bb1e711670]and i'm not sure i like the way dick's parents were murdered in this one. it looses a lot of robin being affraid to get back into the air mentality that must of been in his head of his parents had instead fallen to their deaths[/spoiler:bb1e711670]

    Hardtarget on
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  • DMACDMAC Moderator mod
    edited July 2005
    I'm going to go with Knob on the Vicky Vale issue. She's supposed to be a reporter, but ends up coming off as sort of a prom queen airhead. The fact that the first issue had more of her than either Batman or Robin didn't really help. It's still too early to call, but for the first issue of an "Ultimate Batman" it sure didn't have much of Bruce or Bats.

    DMAC on
  • RockyRaccoonRockyRaccoon Registered User
    edited July 2005
    the whole vicki vale thing was stupid (and a little insulting). the issue went downhill from there.

    besides the childishness, it also has "the ultimate problem" where a third of fans are going to think this is a bastardization of everything that is holy, another third of fans think its nothing but a slightly different version of a story we've already read too many times, and the last third (like me) can't make up our minds and go back and forth. i found this batman really annoying (only azzarelo can give batman an internal monologe, loeb used to be able to before he, well, you know), but I like that it looks like they're doing something completely different with robin (if you ignore the cover). the police corruption theme is also good, but was laid on WAY too thick in this issue. isn't the whole point of an "ultimate" style is to bring the whole universe a little close to reality?

    RockyRaccoon on
  • WhippyWhippy Moderator, Admin Emeritus Admin Emeritus
    edited July 2005
    (only azzarelo can give batman an internal monologe, loeb used to be able to before he, well, you know)

    No, I don't know. What happened to him? Did he find religion? Is writing good Batman suddenly going to send him to hell? You're an idiot.

    And I haven't read Ultimate Batman yet, and I will, but I completely discounted it when Frank Miller came out and said that the whole series was about seeing how many different DC hot chicks he could get Jim Lee to draw for Robin to stare at.

    Whippy on
  • AoiAoi Registered User regular
    edited July 2005
    (only azzarelo can give batman an internal monologe, loeb used to be able to before he, well, you know)

    No, I don't know. What happened to him? Did he find religion? Is writing good Batman suddenly going to send him to hell? You're an idiot.

    And I haven't read Ultimate Batman yet, and I will, but I completely discounted it when Frank Miller came out and said that the whole series was about seeing how many different DC hot chicks he could get Jim Lee to draw for Robin to stare at.

    If it weren't for those first few pages I would have mostly thought it was just Miller taking a bit of a potshot at Lee. He does tend to get rather fixated with um... details.

    I thought the whole thing was a bit odd too. Bruce at the circus just came off sounding like some kind of weird pedophile, and that last line just didn't come off right to me either... And bi-monthly? Ugh... they should at least make shit like this a bit longer to make up for the gap.

    Oh, and out of curiosity, whatever happened to Vicky Vale in the regular DCverse?

    Aoi on
  • yakulyakul Registered User regular
    edited July 2005
    Aoi wrote:
    Oh, and out of curiosity, whatever happened to Vicky Vale in the regular DCverse?

    I think Bruce decided that it could never work between them and she left Gotham.

    yakul on
  • LibrarianThorneLibrarianThorne Registered User regular
    edited July 2005
    Jesus. Was I the only one happy with issue 1? I really don't care that it's "Ultimate Batman". It was good, it had elements of Year One (the police corruption), the art was great (the last page made me smile), and while it wasn't anything amazing, per se, it was still a good use of $3, in my opinion.

    And I like where DC is going with their All Star line. They're not making the heroes more moden or realistic, they're letting the writers tell their own stories. If you've read the Morrison interview for All Star Superman, it's not about making the character more realistic, it's about giving people a book they can read without worrying about other DC continuity, while giving them a familiar character and setting. All Star Batman & Robin the Boy Wonder works, in my opinion, as a first issue because it's not really aimed at the main comic buyers, it's aimed at a new audience. Perhaps it will work, perhaps not, but I can tell you that I will be picking up issue 2.

    LibrarianThorne on
  • RockyRaccoonRockyRaccoon Registered User
    edited July 2005
    re: loeb. Hush sucked and Batman and Superman is overwritten. This isn't news.

    Although, now that I think about it, Batman's internal monologe wasn't bad in Hush, just everything else.

    RockyRaccoon on
  • KnobKnob TURN THE BEAT BACK InternetModerator mod
    edited July 2005
    re: loeb. Hush sucked and Batman and Superman is overwritten. This isn't news.

    News to me, sucko.

    Knob on
  • RockyRaccoonRockyRaccoon Registered User
    edited July 2005
    Check out the Transmet thread, he pretty well invalidates all his opinions there.
    who are you talking about?

    RockyRaccoon on
  • PkmoutlPkmoutl Registered User regular
    edited July 2005
    (only azzarelo can give batman an internal monologe, loeb used to be able to before he, well, you know)

    No, I don't know. What happened to him? Did he find religion? Is writing good Batman suddenly going to send him to hell? You're an idiot.

    And I haven't read Ultimate Batman yet, and I will, but I completely discounted it when Frank Miller came out and said that the whole series was about seeing how many different DC hot chicks he could get Jim Lee to draw for Robin to stare at.

    Whippy, you know I love you like a son, but I have to say something that will probably make you hate me for like eight to ten days.

    Fuck Frank Miller in his ass with a copy of Swamp Thing. No, really. So far, the only things I have ever liked that he did were DKR, Year One and that one Daredevil story that I liked (and not that I liked Dickdevil, but I liked how Miller did some of the other shit). Otherwise, Miller can lick the back of my balls all the way back up to the little V-shaped pleat at the top of my asscrack. Everything else I've read by him has been crap.

    So he can stick it.

    Miller isn't this big, huge comic god. He was a guy who had three, maybe four good stories in him. I think what he did in DK2 proves that he's lost it. I'd sooner listen to Winick than Miller. Fuck that old fuck. Really.

    Pkmoutl on
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  • Dex DynamoDex Dynamo Registered User regular
    edited July 2005
    Pkmoutl wrote:
    (only azzarelo can give batman an internal monologe, loeb used to be able to before he, well, you know)

    No, I don't know. What happened to him? Did he find religion? Is writing good Batman suddenly going to send him to hell? You're an idiot.

    And I haven't read Ultimate Batman yet, and I will, but I completely discounted it when Frank Miller came out and said that the whole series was about seeing how many different DC hot chicks he could get Jim Lee to draw for Robin to stare at.

    Whippy, you know I love you like a son, but I have to say something that will probably make you hate me for like eight to ten days.

    Fuck Frank Miller in his ass with a copy of Swamp Thing. No, really. So far, the only things I have ever liked that he did were DKR, Year One and that one Daredevil story that I liked (and not that I liked Dickdevil, but I liked how Miller did some of the other shit). Otherwise, Miller can lick the back of my balls all the way back up to the little V-shaped pleat at the top of my asscrack. Everything else I've read by him has been crap.

    So he can stick it.

    Miller isn't this big, huge comic god. He was a guy who had three, maybe four good stories in him. I think what he did in DK2 proves that he's lost it. I'd sooner listen to Winick than Miller. Fuck that old fuck. Really.

    You didn't like Sin City?

    Dex Dynamo on
  • KnobKnob TURN THE BEAT BACK InternetModerator mod
    edited July 2005
    Oh, Frank Miller is awesome.

    Sin City
    DKR
    Ronin
    The best Daredevil stories ever
    Martha Washington Goes to War
    The list goes on and on

    It's just DKR2 and Batman All Stars that have been less than awesome.

    Knob on
  • Dex DynamoDex Dynamo Registered User regular
    edited July 2005
    You Forgot Robocop. At least the original robocop. And Year One.

    Dex Dynamo on
  • DMACDMAC Moderator mod
    edited July 2005
    It's sort of hard to believe that the same person who wrote DKR and Year One wrote All Star B&R. Hopefully things will pick up next issue.

    DMAC on
  • The Nameless OneThe Nameless One Registered User
    edited July 2005
    Pkmoutl wrote:
    Anti-Miller rhetoric

    No.

    The Nameless One on
  • PkmoutlPkmoutl Registered User regular
    edited July 2005
    Pkmoutl wrote:
    Anti-Miller rhetoric

    No.

    You know, I can say what the fuck I want about Miller.

    A. Because it's my fucking opinion.

    B. Last time I checked, I had a fucking Masters in lit, so I can make actual criticisms rather than just sucking his dick because everyone thinks he's a goddamn god. I think he passed his prime and doesn't know when to quit.

    I hated Ronin like fucking poison, and what little I read of Sin City came off as contrived to me. Call me crazy, but when you've devoured as much contrived literature as I have, you really get used to the scent of it, and you can smell it a mile away. Maybe I just didn't grab one of the better sections of it, but it just came off as contrived. I gave it right back to the guy I was borrowing it from and told him to not offer me the rest.

    Pkmoutl on
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  • The Nameless OneThe Nameless One Registered User
    edited July 2005
    Angry...angry young man.

    The Nameless One on
  • PkmoutlPkmoutl Registered User regular
    edited July 2005
    Angry...angry young man.

    OLD man, you putz. Get it right. I'm old.

    Pkmoutl on
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  • WhippyWhippy Moderator, Admin Emeritus Admin Emeritus
    edited July 2005
    and cranky!

    Whippy on
  • The Nameless OneThe Nameless One Registered User
    edited July 2005
    Pkmoutl wrote:
    Angry...angry young man.

    OLD man, you putz. Get it right. I'm old.

    Okay, then...you're a sour old gimp.

    Cool?

    The Nameless One on
  • PkmoutlPkmoutl Registered User regular
    edited July 2005
    Pkmoutl wrote:
    Angry...angry young man.

    OLD man, you putz. Get it right. I'm old.

    Okay, then...you're a sour old gimp.

    Cool?

    I prefer Grouchy Old Fart, but that'll do.

    Pkmoutl on
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  • The Nameless OneThe Nameless One Registered User
    edited July 2005
    Pkmoutl wrote:
    Pkmoutl wrote:
    Angry...angry young man.

    OLD man, you putz. Get it right. I'm old.

    Okay, then...you're a sour old gimp.

    Cool?

    I prefer Grouchy Old Fart, but that'll do.

    How old is OLD, btw...I'm 30 in January.

    The Nameless One on
  • RockyRaccoonRockyRaccoon Registered User
    edited July 2005
    Pkmoutl wrote:
    I had a fucking Masters in lit
    Probably too late to get your money back on that one?

    RockyRaccoon on
  • Zodiac BraveZodiac Brave Registered User
    edited July 2005
    Pkmoutl wrote:
    Pkmoutl wrote:
    Anti-Miller rhetoric

    No.

    You know, I can say what the fuck I want about Miller.

    A. Because it's my fucking opinion.

    B. Last time I checked, I had a fucking Masters in lit, so I can make actual criticisms rather than just sucking his dick because everyone thinks he's a goddamn god. I think he passed his prime and doesn't know when to quit.

    I hated Ronin like fucking poison, and what little I read of Sin City came off as contrived to me. Call me crazy, but when you've devoured as much contrived literature as I have, you really get used to the scent of it, and you can smell it a mile away. Maybe I just didn't grab one of the better sections of it, but it just came off as contrived. I gave it right back to the guy I was borrowing it from and told him to not offer me the rest.
    :roll:

    I just picked up the first issue of Miller + Lee's Batman and Robin today. Not quite what I was expecting; indeed, the Vicki Vale character is way over-played and Bruce does kind of come off as a creepy pedophile in what little of the story he appears in, but other than that I thought it was decent. The corrupt cop bit was very intriguing, the art was fantasatic, and the cliff hanger leading into the next issue was fantastic. I'll certainly buy issue 2. :^: overall.

    Also, for the record, I love you Pk (I'm a distant observer) and I feel you're perfectly entitled to your opinion. I just thought playing the "masters in lit" card was a bit pretentious and lame. :p

    Zodiac Brave on
  • KnobKnob TURN THE BEAT BACK InternetModerator mod
    edited July 2005
    Here's what really bugged me about All-Stars

    [spoiler:88856689a7]
    Batman is thinking about recruiting Robin before his parents are killed? No. Fuck that. He has no reason whatsoever to endanger a small child. Once his parents are killed, Bruce sees something of himself in the boy and takes him in. That makes sense. Not wanting to enlist a child because he's a decent acrobat.



    And then, Dick is a twelve year old boy who had just watched his parents get murdered, then he gets dragged off by corrupt cops planning on murdering him.

    A giant dude in a terrifying costume grabs him and yells, 'YOU'VE BEEN DRAFTED'

    Yeah real sensitive, Bruce. Real awesome.[/spoiler:88856689a7]

    Knob on
  • ServoServo Registered User, ClubPA
    edited July 2005
    Knob wrote:
    Here's what really bugged me about All-Stars

    [spoiler:8b74a8f445]
    Batman is thinking about recruiting Robin before his parents are killed? No. Fuck that. He has no reason whatsoever to endanger a small child. Once his parents are killed, Bruce sees something of himself in the boy and takes him in. That makes sense. Not wanting to enlist a child because he's a decent acrobat.



    And then, Dick is a twelve year old boy who had just watched his parents get murdered, then he gets dragged off by corrupt cops planning on murdering him.

    A giant dude in a terrifying costume grabs him and yells, 'YOU'VE BEEN DRAFTED'

    Yeah real sensitive, Bruce. Real awesome.[/spoiler:8b74a8f445]

    Actually, in the Newsarama interview, Miller explains that. I haven't read the issue yet (sold out) so I can't comment on how well it's put across in the first issue or if it will be portrayed later, but basically what he said is that Bats is fully aware of his own mortality and is planning on recruiting someone in the future. Dick was like his number one choice, but Bruce wasn't planning on even making contact with Dick until he was probably six or seven years older, but with the death of his parents, he was forced to act sooner.

    Servo on
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