The new forums will be named Coin Return (based on the most recent
vote)! You can check on the status and timeline of the transition to the new forums
here.
The Guiding Principles and New Rules
document is now in effect.
Another Way Schools Are Failing Our Kids
Posts
it's not a law, but yeah, teachers shouldn't just stand there and wait for the fight to play itself out. either get a security person or do what disc said.
but again, a teacher getting involved in a confrontation just increases the risk of something happening that creates a lawsuit. always look for the security guy first
Well, let me ask you in turn:
A mugger, while holding a weapon and threatening violence against your person may also insult you in some manner. Is that insult provocation? I would say yes. Is it necessary or smart to retaliate to that provocation? I would argue no, if you have already made the decision not to fight back. And in this case, Billy made that decision a long time ago.
"This is where I say something profound and you bow, so lets just skip to your part."
well there you go, obviously you have to step in and do something. how big is your school?
Maybe 1,000 kids, grade 9-12. It's a pretty small, pretty racially homogeneous town, which helps I guess.
that's not too bad, but i think for any school above 750 kids, there should be at least one security person at school at all times.
edit: actually you know what? fuck that, EVERY school, regardless of size, should have at least one security person on site at all times.
Really? At my highschool the security guy was some douche that basicaly got paid to sit there. Or tell you off for stupid things that didnt matter.
but they're listening to every word I say
The way I see it, a bully tries to put you under his thumb and he only has two options available for keeping you there.
1) Verbal abuse (often consisting of a threat of phyical violence or abject humiliation)
2) Physical violence
If you show that option 1 is not going to work on you, a bully is faced with an ultimatum : hit you or leave you alone.
What I'm trying to say, and doing an awful job of it I guess, is do not force the ultimatum if you are not willing to 'accept the consequences'/'back up your challenge'.
Does this seem unreasonable?
"This is where I say something profound and you bow, so lets just skip to your part."
This only holds if we accept your premise that physical violence against the bully'ed is instigated by them.
I find this to be innaccurate at best, and a total load of shit at worst.
but they're listening to every word I say
uh huh. your personal experience aside, someone needs to be at every school to act as a contingency when things get out of hand. a physical presence whose only job is to maintain order is a crucial job in most schools.
Bully: "You're a fag!"
Victim: "Please just leave me alone..."
Bully: "FAG!" *punch in gut - kick,kick,kick"
Totally the victim's fault.
Critical Failures - Havenhold Campaign • August St. Cloud (Human Ranger)
Ok. then lets drop that premise. Do you agree there are ways to deflect a bullies attention? Or are you of the mind there are only two options: confront the bully or run away?
"This is where I say something profound and you bow, so lets just skip to your part."
Sometimes there are, sometimes there are not. And it may work one day and not work the next.
Generally the best course of action is to stand up to the bully.
but they're listening to every word I say
I would not correlate hate crimes and bullying. They seem to be seperate issues and require different mentalities on the part of the agressor.
"This is where I say something profound and you bow, so lets just skip to your part."
I saw a kid try to stand up to a bully once and he got thrown down a flight of stairs.
Critical Failures - Havenhold Campaign • August St. Cloud (Human Ranger)
Hate crimes?
You do realize that a typical bully calls everyone a "fag"? Whether they be straight or not. Its pretty much just the default bully line.
Critical Failures - Havenhold Campaign • August St. Cloud (Human Ranger)
To those who say that it's silly to get suspended for fighting back, I can understand that. But unless you saw the whole fight, it would be easy to just start a fight with someone and then go in and say "I was just defending myself." It opens itself to abuse. If I had a fucking nickel for every group of kids screaming "HE STARTED IT" "NO HE STARTED IT", I would be a rich man indeed.
A colleague of mine has a nerdy son who took enough shit one day and threw the bully to the ground hard. They both got suspended for a day. The mom of the nerdy kid told him why he had to be suspended as well, but she let him stay home, eat pizza, and play video games because she was so proud. That's all you can do.
I think that teachers can and should establish an environment where bullying and abuse should be looked upon as total abhorrent, but again, look who's raising these little monsters. Bullies almost always come from abusive families as well.
it might just cause a time/space rift.
Critical Failures - Havenhold Campaign • August St. Cloud (Human Ranger)
Unfortunately I'm sure not all schools could adopt such a zero tolerance policy. I went to a public magnate school, so if you made a stink through something like bullying you just got kicked back to your standard local public school. However, obviously you can't just expel people with such ease at a standard public school.
In highschool, I'd say I handled more bullies with humor than with fists. I was trying to think of a way to explain the deflection, because it wasn't always accomplished through humor.
I only adopted the method in response to the consequences for fighting gaining in severity. I was tired of being punished for defending myself.
"This is where I say something profound and you bow, so lets just skip to your part."
Same thing happened to me a few times. I have an unusually trusting relationship with my parents so it was pretty easy. I'd get in trouble for hitting some douche who was being abusive to me. My parents would just ask if he hit me first and if he did they said "They have to punish you but you did the right thing". To this day I make it clear to anyone who tries to physically harm me I feel totally justified decking them as hard as I can.
Public for the first half, private (non-reiglious affiliated) for the second half.
"This is where I say something profound and you bow, so lets just skip to your part."
I am wondering the same thing.
"This is where I say something profound and you bow, so lets just skip to your part."
Maybe there was so much infighting they couldn't effectively bully the nerd populous?
Either way, this is seriously fucked up.
Because it was a magnet school it pooled students from multiple pretty big areas, I guess students lived too far apart for anything like that to happen, at least that I heard of. I imagine that there might have been some scuffles when people got off their buses, but, nothing that I ever heard of or saw or experienced first hand.
This thread mostly just makes me want some nationalized standards for school.
Some of the beatings were pretty bad. I think the worst was one kid using his backpack full of textbooks like a club. Put my teeth through my lip. I went to the principal once about it. I ended up in detention for two weeks. It's hopeless because as much as anyone pays lip service to it, not enough people care. Really, when it comes down to it, the bullies enjoy the freedom because there is absolutely nobody who gives enough of a shit about these kids to actually do something.
So it'll never end. We'll always have maladjusted, socially inept adults who were so abused as children they can hardly speak to people.
Perplexing. I was the kid who always fought back. And every authority, including parents, kept telling me to stop fighting back. For a short time, I thought I was wrong for, what I saw as, standing up for myself.
"This is where I say something profound and you bow, so lets just skip to your part."
Well, I guess the answer is to not be bullied. We're all victims by choice, right?
You were physically unable to fight back? Or you just didn't fight back?
I was about the scrawniest kid you could immagine and I only got in a fight twice. You just have to make them think you are going to hit them. Im not saying you have to be effective at fighting. Just a couple knocks and then you usualy get the crap beat out of you, at least until someone shows up to break it up. You don't have to be UFC champion or anything.
but they're listening to every word I say
I just didn't. I can't explain it.